Army coup to take place in Dublin today

cajonlardo

DanMurphy wrote: »

All of this was, of course, all reported at home (NOT) by our intrepid war reporters from RTE who managed to find Nicosia the few times they ventured East!

But, those same 'reporters' jumped on Hadadd's 'Irish soldiers drunk and chasing wimmins' in the Leb fairly quickly at the time.

Tyre Barracks - with the PLO machine- gunners entrenched in holes under the Barrack wall facing the street.
Was a crazy place back at the start; completely out of bounds to UNIFIL but we MPs had to drive there daily on escort duty etc.
If ever a whole city went mad, it had to be Tyre in 1978/9.

A Life less Ordinary

Biggest lickspittle on boardz

Did anybody see this piece in the Irish Times today? It was about the killing of Irish Corporal Dermot McLaughlin by Israeli tank fire in 1987. I'm just wondering in any of the Lebanon veterans here could shed some light on the political and military atmosphere in the region at the time. Was it a case of a hot headed rogue Israeli officer as suggested, or a direct message from higher up the chain of command to punish the Irish for something?

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/killing-of-irish-soldier-by-israelis-believed-to-be-deliberate-and-unprovoked-1.3332492

DanMurphy

Biggest lickspittle on boardz wrote: »

Did anybody see this piece in the Irish Times today? It was about the killing of Irish Corporal Dermot McLaughlin by Israeli tank fire in 1987. I'm just wondering in any of the Lebanon veterans here could shed some light on the political and military atmosphere in the region at the time. Was it a case of a hot headed rogue Israeli officer as suggested, or a direct message from higher up the chain of command to punish the Irish for something?

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/killing-of-irish-soldier-by-israelis-believed-to-be-deliberate-and-unprovoked-1.3332492

It was a deliberate attempt to kill ALL the personnel on the Post, up to 17 Irish soldiers stationed there.

f the tank round had been just feet to the right, it would have got most of the lads as it would have exploded in the main billet/common room.

There's no doubt in my mind it was a mass murder attempt to get the Irish out of UNIFIL due to an anticipated outcry at home over so many deaths in one incident.
The Israelis hated the Irish troops, as we never gave them an inch, or their DFF allies.

Wexfordboy89

DanMurphy wrote: »

It was a deliberate attempt to kill ALL the personnel on the Post, up to 17 Irish soldiers stationed there.

f the tank round had been just feet to the right, it would have got most of the lads as it would have exploded in the main billet/common room.

There's no doubt in my mind it was a mass murder attempt to get the Irish out of UNIFIL due to an anticipated outcry at home over so many deaths in one incident.
The Israelis hated the Irish troops, as we never gave them an inch, or their DFF allies.

Guessing it is in part why Netanyahu says ireland is the most anti Semitic country in europe?

DanMurphy

I didn't say WE soldiers hated the IDF, just did our job is all.

No Irish soldier brought home anti-Israeli feelings with them.
I personally didn't (though I should) so I don't know where all this anti-Israel stuff comes from in Ireland.
It certainly not because of their killings of Irish UN Peacekeepers in the 1970s and 1980s.

The PLO et al, were guilty of murdering peacekeepers too, and the Irish people had 'a love affair with them guys' which is still ongoing through Hamas?

cajonlardo

DanMurphy wrote: »

I didn't say WE soldiers hated the IDF, just did our job is all.

No Irish soldier brought home anti-Israeli feelings with them.
I personally didn't (though I should) so I don't know where all this anti-Israel stuff comes from in Ireland.
It certainly not because of their killings of Irish UN Peacekeepers in the 1970s and 1980s.

The PLO et al, were guilty of murdering peacekeepers too, and the Irish people had 'a love affair with them guys' which is still ongoing through Hamas?

Write a book Dan.
You seem to have it all straight in your head - lots of vets know what they saw but you have a great over all picture along with your own experience. Won't be too long before this stuff is forgotten for ever if it's not written down

DanMurphy

I just happened to be there when a lot of this stuff happened, unfortunately for the most part, between 1978 and 2005, six trips.

Many lads have more experience there than I, but never expressed their views, for many reasons.
They wouldn't be believed, or they want to forget I suppose?

As for myself, Lebanon left an indelible mark on me, the good, the bad and the ugly of it all is still with me.
We found ourselves in the middle of a dirty little civil war, made worse by Israeli intervention from the south, and Syrian meddling from the north. The IDF, the DFF, the PFLP, and the (12) different factions of the PLO in Tyre...plus the wandering bands of armed highwaymen aligned to no-one, but were murderous, kidnapping criminal bastards who killed for the sake of it.

We in UNIFIL had ringside seats, sometimes drawn into conflict with one side or the other, and even both together at times, and it was our duty to watch, to record, and to report the action, along with the slaughter, atrocities committed against civilians by all sides which was our duty to observe, and prevent, where we could.
There was nothing at all we could do about the Israeli air-force, or their long-range artillery except to be official witnesses, record it, and pick up the pieces afterwards.

I remain sickened by what I witnessed, even after all this time, by what so called civilized humanity could do to fellow humanity.
I'm still angry about the way our Government(s) treated us by the penny-pinching way we were equipped and clothed, with our antique weapons and gear, (early on the Mission, though after 20 years they copped on a bit) and by the Irish Media were/are slanted against us at every opportunity.

To finish, I know folks in Ireland who yearn for trouble and strife, and glorify in our own civil war without a thought for the reality of it.

But, who am I to judge or advize them, so I won't try.

I just hope they never find out what war is really like.

No, I'll not write a book about it.
There's a few who did, but sold very little copies.
Nobody cares, as we Irish seem to have a '50 year cycle' with Irish O/Seas military matters, wherein we refuse to recognize events until most of the participants have passed away...ie Niemba, Jadotville, etc, maybe for political reasons, I don't know, but it seems to be the case.

Books on the subject don't sell as the general public have little or no interest in their military.

Morpheus

I do, thank you for choosing to serve and for whatever you did, whether big or small, to try in some way to make life a little better for those caught in the middle. You may not feel like it, but I cant imagine how your being there with the rest of those who served, didn't impact positively in some way. There are plenty of us who do think good things about our military personnel and the force as a whole or who wish better for it. we may be more silent, but id wager that we would outnumber the louder negative lot. There cannot be many families in the state who haven't or who dont have currently, someone who serves or served , or who are friends with those who did or still do.

Biggest lickspittle on boardz

DanMurphy wrote: »

I just happened to be there when a lot of this stuff happened, unfortunately for the most part, between 1978 and 2005, six trips.

Many lads have more experience there than I, but never expressed their views, for many reasons.
They wouldn't be believed, or they want to forget I suppose?

As for myself, Lebanon left an indelible mark on me, the good, the bad and the ugly of it all is still with me.
We found ourselves in the middle of a dirty little civil war, made worse by Israeli intervention from the south, and Syrian meddling from the north. The IDF, the DFF, the PFLP, and the (12) different factions of the PLO in Tyre...plus the wandering bands of armed highwaymen aligned to no-one, but were murderous, kidnapping criminal bastards who killed for the sake of it.

We in UNIFIL had ringside seats, sometimes drawn into conflict with one side or the other, and even both together at times, and it was our duty to watch, to record, and to report the action, along with the slaughter, atrocities committed against civilians by all sides which was our duty to observe, and prevent, where we could.
There was nothing at all we could do about the Israeli air-force, or their long-range artillery except to be official witnesses, record it, and pick up the pieces afterwards.

I remain sickened by what I witnessed, even after all this time, by what so called civilized humanity could do to fellow humanity.
I'm still angry about the way our Government(s) treated us by the penny-pinching way we were equipped and clothed, with our antique weapons and gear, (early on the Mission, though after 20 years they copped on a bit) and by the Irish Media were/are slanted against us at every opportunity.

To finish, I know folks in Ireland who yearn for trouble and strife, and glorify in our own civil war without a thought for the reality of it.

But, who am I to judge or advize them, so I won't try.

I just hope they never find out what war is really like.

No, I'll not write a book about it.
There's a few who did, but sold very little copies.
Nobody cares, as we Irish seem to have a '50 year cycle' with Irish O/Seas military matters, wherein we refuse to recognize events until most of the participants have passed away...ie Niemba, Jadotville, etc, maybe for political reasons, I don't know, but it seems to be the case.

Books on the subject don't sell as the general public have little or no interest in their military.

Was there anything in particular that stood out for you when you served overseas? For example, was there a moment where you knew for a fact that your actions had a direct impact on preventing bloodshed or casualties? Or would you still keep in touch with locals that you met in the Leb while serving? I'd like to hear about the 'civvie' side of things, so to speak.

I find this thread one of the most interesting on boards tbh, and I hope more people contribute to it. Or just take it all in and appreciate what the Defence Forces were quietly doing overseas without fanfare or PR for the most part.

I would echo the calls to seriously consider a book, or at least recording your experiences somewhere for posterity. You lived through your own bit of history, and the best person to record that is you. It's not about selling books or entertaining the public I think. It's just telling your honest story for those who want to listen and understand what happened.

So that's my 2 cents worth.

DanMurphy

Thanks for the above posts guys.
There's no doubt the International (UNIFIL) presence / actions saved lives in Lebanon. I'm also certain that each individual member 'did his bit' to ensure the safety of civilians, when they could.

I know I did, but to rake it back to mind is extremely painful for me, and could be seen by some as 'boasting', or as soldiers were wont to say...'Throwing Brakes.' so I won't go there, especially on 'the net.'
What I will says is, that on a few occasions my presence did make a difference between certain death and life for local families.
For years I had nightmares about the place, and my late wife would to slap my face to wake me up! One morning I woke up with a black-eye! It was weeks before she told me what happened! I couldn't figure out how I managed to go to bed normal, and wake up with a shiner!
We had many a laugh about it in later years!

Post Traumatic Stress? (No such thing in the Army of my time)
Yes, the ordinary Lebanese knew we were doing our best for them, and mourned our sad losses with us, and we mourned their sad losses with them. They were our family, in ways, without being 'close' to them, and without words of comfort being spoken between us.
A few years ago I went back there as a civvie and visited all the old, familiar places. Much has changed, but I was recognized by many of the locals and made welcome in their homes. Once known as the most dangerous village in the world, it was the strangest of feelings being there, walking the same old streets and trails (without my guns, and no need of them Thank God!) I was in tears before I left...I couldn't help it.
There's still no guns in that little village and surrounding area nowadays.
I like to think I had a small part to play in that.

Even UNIFIL has no presence there today!

arybvtcw0eolkf

Fantastic couple of posts there DanMurphy, absolutely fantastic.

Of course since we were both 'in the hills' (readers here, 'in the hills' meant you were in the Irish Battalion Area of Operations, or the AO).. Life was different for the soldier here compared to that of the soldier serving in UNIFIL HQ where life was pretty cushy.. Sorry, since we were both in the hills we have shared experiences.

Like Dan I won't talk too much about my experiences for a number of reasons. Younger lads think we're 'throwing brakes', like an old mans 'one upmanship' and tbh unless you've shared our experiences you just won't get it.

Like Dan I know my service made a massive difference to the Lebanese people, and we saved hundreds if not thousands of lives. You couldn't quantify it.

Dan touched on PTSD, like Dan I've got my nightmares.. I can't listen to James Blunt's 'No Bravery', esp the lyrics 'Tracer lighting up the sky its another families turn to die' ~ its very hard.

I'll briefly touch on one dream, on one trip I served most of my time in Haddatha village. Overlooking Haddatha was an Israeli/Christian compound (like an FOB for you gamers).. Some weeks day and night they'd be shelling (bombing) the village and wadi's (valleys).. Or Dan will remember a 'recce by fire', at dawn and dusk the Israeli's or Christians would shoot into the wadi's to try draw out return fire.

Right, the dream.. I grew up in a flat in Ballymun, we lived opposite one of the higher 15 story tower blocks.. My dream was that I was a child back in my bedroom and there was an Israeli tank shooting into my room from the top of the 15 story tower block.

There were others.. Treatment for me when I returned home and eventually (two years later) I reported sick, was diagnosed with 'PTSD from combat experiences in Lebanon' and given a weeks supply of sleeping tablets!.

You couldn't say too much because you were afraid you'd put your career and future chances of serving oversea's at risk.

Another stand out experience here.. We had a brilliant, fantastic Company Sgt (I won't name him but his nickname was the 'Prince of Darkness' ~ familiar Dan?).

We were getting it hard and heavy, so lads were given the chance of taking a few days R&R in UNIFIL HQ and in exchange some Swedish engineers who weren't seeing the war (sounds comical) were exchanged for the week.

During one heavy night of fighting the Swed's were outside the bunkers taking photos. Next morning our CS paraded everyone and asked the Swed's to respect the fact that they're voyeurs to others misery (civilians in the village) and there was to be no more photos of shelling.

One final memory I'll share, in case people here think civilians living in a war zone get used to war.. I was on my first tour and in a UN position we called 'Tech Town' above Haris village.. I was in the APC (armored personnel carrier) garages when shelling commenced.. We were in the shelter when a village elder was brought in, dead.

The children sheltering with us were looking to us for comfort, I'd never been under fire in my entire life and these children had lived their entire lives in war. And they were looking for us, my God I can't even describe my feelings.

Every time I see war in the middle east, places like wars on Gaza or Syria etc ~ I know what those children are living through, and they're never, ever used to it.

I could type all night, but I'm not as articulate as DanMurphy on the subject of our service in Lebanon.

There's a few books wrote, the last one by a former officer and now a journalist (I can't remember his name). Its bloody awful, cringy and sh*t. Don't waste your time on it.

I loved Lebanon and the Lebanese people. I loved my times in Israel too. As military actions go Jew's, Christians & Muslims were all the fecking same, no one covered themselves in glory.

If I could turn back the clock and return to my first tour and do it all again, I'd do it in a heart beat.

Finally, chatting with my son yesterday and I told him for me one of the biggest mind fvcks was when I returned. I was walking through the Ilac shopping center in Dublin, crossing the road at Parnell St and it occurred to me that yesterday I was in a war zone and less than 24 hours later I'm back in civilization and no one knows whats going on.

Sorry for the long, sometimes disjointed post.

***edit.. Dammit I posted that then realized my heart is beating like a drum!!.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gh41Wxez9PE

arybvtcw0eolkf

Just a follow up to the question, did we make a difference?.

Well there are a new generation of children growing up in Lebanon who have never known war, and that hasn't happened in Lebanon for a very, very long time.

There's something to think about.

DanMurphy

Makikomi...one who understands!
I grew up in the wild countryside where the scariest things were Ryan's mad bull in the farm beside our house, and crazy old Mrs. M.... from up the road...Scareeee!
Neither these, **** scary as they were, nor the excellent training I got in the Army, prepared me for Lebanon!

I experienced something like that too, MK.

Hiding behind a flimsy wall with three old women and two children while the place was being mortared and machine-gunned to ****.
Soon after, trying to talk a Militia foot patrol out of shooting three children who were down in the 'wrong' Wadi, simply collecting clover for pet rabbits. I knew the kids, and what they were doing there. But, the Militia said they were 'spies' for Amal or Hezbollah so they must die!
I eventually talked them out of it, but Jeez, t'was a close run thing!
There's a special place in hell for those 'Christian' Militia bastards!

JenovaProject

Makikomi and DanMurphy,please dont ever feel like you cant share experiences on here.
I for one absolutely love reading about them and Im positive Im not alone on that.
Thank you for sharing,understandably it can be hard but all you guys and girls who have served are an inspiration to JoeSoaps like me across this country.

arybvtcw0eolkf

DanMurphy wrote: »

There's a special place in hell for those 'Christian' Militia bastards!

Oh yes, the Christians were a special shower of pricks.

I keep in touch with an Israeli I met on my last trip. Part of my job was traveling into Israel at least twice a week, so I got to know some of the lads on the border.

I kept in touch with one, we chat almost daily via facebook. When his niece was called to do her national service she was going into his unit, the Foreign Affairs and Relations Division (I think that's the title) and he asked could he put her in touch with me so I could speak about the opposite side of the fence.

I'm in touch with her still, in fact she met a Dutch officer serving with UNTSO up on the Golan Heights two years ago, left Israel and moved to Amsterdam with him.. She's working voluntary work with refugee's from Syria now.

I can honestly say that I've never met an Israeli who wanted war with Lebanon, not a single one. And I've known plenty. Without exception every Israeli I met wanted peace with their neighbors. Can't say the same for the other side unfortunately, but on the side and away from listening ears a lot of Lebanese expressed a want for peace with Israel too.

And to a man, every Lebanese hated Palestinians. Despised them.

arybvtcw0eolkf

JenovaProject wrote: »

Makikomi and DanMurphy,please dont ever feel like you cant share experiences on here.
I for one absolutely love reading about them and Im positive Im not alone on that.
Thank you for sharing,understandably it can be hard but all you guys and girls who have served are an inspiration to JoeSoaps like me across this country.

Thanks, but honestly. Some day it would be used against us.

Not by officialdom, but by some fvcking idiot.

Thanks all the same.

JenovaProject

Braxton Poor Skulduggery wrote: »

Thanks, but honestly. Some day it would be used against us.

Not by officialdom, but by some fvcking idiot.

Thanks all the same.

Sadly I think you are right but Id hope you would have enough backers to drown out the fcuking clowns who dont appriciate the job that the armed forces do.

The world is not all sweetness and light as Im sure you know better than most.

Your stories are a fascinating insight and dont deserved to be drowned out by a few fcuking internet hardmen.

cajonlardo

I've never come across such honest and heartfelt accounts as Dan & Makikomi's.
No bull, no exaggeration - just accurate perspective . Proud to have worn the same uniform as these guys and respect and my humility towards your service. I honestly believe you are a dying breed and this country won't see your likes again.

arybvtcw0eolkf

cajonlardo wrote: »

I've never come across such honest and heartfelt accounts as Dan & Makikomi's.
No bull, no exaggeration - just accurate perspective . Proud to have worn the same uniform as these guys and respect and my humility towards your service. I honestly believe you are a dying breed and this country won't see your likes again.

No bother, just two old sweats throwing out some memories.

Some people disregard 'peace keeping' and think we're going over to a peaceful country where nothing happens. Nothing is further from the truth in most cases.

We've a fantastic reputation for oversea's work, we punch well above our weight and get lots done, often with very little.

Lebanon ('The Leb') is mostly at peace now, at least south of the Litani.

Hezbollah throw a few rockets into northern Israel on occassion, like their counterparts in Gaza they're idiots and its a stupid tactic which achieves nothing but putting their own citizens lives in danger.

Israel has put a very, very high price tag on its enemies attacking it. Their war chest is huge, and when unleashed its a monster. And while people bleat and moan that they're receiving America financial backing on the flip side of that coin their enemies are receiving financial backing from Iran & China.

Getting away from Lebanon for a moment, but things which I believe would help bring peace to the region is if Israel would stop building more and more settlements.. Hamas should stop launching missile attacks against Israel, its retarded and will never achieve anything meaningful ~ its often said that it might help if Palestinians learned to love their children more than they hate Israeli's.

Israel should lift the siege on Gaza, anyone interested in reading about life in Gaza, what the Israeli siege means and just how restrictive life is under both Israel and Hamas should read Dr Izzeldin Abuelaish's book 'I shall not hate', it should be required reading for everyone. Its an incredible story of love and growing up in Gaza.

Any of Doctor Mads Gilberts books too, but you'll need a strong stomach.

'Going to war for peace is like fvcking for virginity' [my final words, hopefully].

Peace.

DanMurphy

To conclude on this topic, it's been a while since I served in 'the Leb,' but the smell of Diesel brings my mind back there, into the thick of things!
Likewise, with some music;

Kenny Rogers 'The Gambler.' I was playing it when I experienced 'incoming' for the first time, New Years evening 1978!

'Cavatina' theme from the Deer Hunter, no idea why.

'Autumn Leaves' song takes me back to Wadi foot Patrols in the early days where every footfall could be your last.

'What's Going On' by Four Non Blondes... Takes me right back to the day our Post was blown to pieces by IDF artillery and that song was on the radio the following evening as I was being Medivaced to Hospital.
'What's Going On'.....indeed !
I played it today on U Tube....jeez, but it gave me goosebumps!
Anyway, enough said on the subject methinks.

Thanks for your kind words Cajonlardo.

Barry Badrinath

"It doesn't rain in south Lebanon, it pours".

arybvtcw0eolkf

DanMurphy wrote: »

To conclude on this topic, it's been a while since I served in 'the Leb,' but the smell of Diesel brings my mind back there, into the thick of things!

Filling gennie's in an OP?... It does this for me.

Or have you ever found yourself looking along the tops of a hill ridge line and almost expecting to see a compound?.

If you're a reader I'd recommend 'Beaufort' by Ron Lesham, its about a platoon of IDF soldiers based in Beaufort Castle and their experiences there.. The boredom, coming under fire, fear and craic.

I wrote to the author after reading it and told him of my surprise that the soldiers were experiences almost like for like what we were experiencing in the OP's in Lebanon.

I got a really nice email back thanking me and like that telling me he's surprised how similar the experiences were.

It was made into a movie, which I didn't enjoy at all.

G_R

Lads, speaking as someone who wouldn't know one end of a rifle from another, much less what it's like to be somewhere like that, just want to say thanks a million for those posts. Really interesting reading, and provides a small insight into what must have been an incredible experience to be part of.

You both, along with all your colleagues who have served abroad, should be incredibly proud of what has been achieved over there. Fair play.

Edit: reading back over that it could read like I'm saying it was a fun time when I say incredible - that's absolutely not what I meant - just to clarify!

arybvtcw0eolkf

G_R wrote: »

Edit: reading back over that it could read like I'm saying it was a fun time when I say incredible - that's absolutely not what I meant - just to clarify!

It was fun, honestly. Some of the best memories of my career are in Lebanon.

I'm done with oversea's service now, although I'd love to go to Syria but I've made promises to my family so I'm staying here.

I wonder if the people who stupidly tried to mock our service earlier in the thread are still reading this, and have they changed their views.

I'm going to back out of the discussion now. But I'm sure DanMurphy will join me in saying 'thank you' for all the support and kind words guys. It is nice to know there are some who appreciate the work our Df do at home and abroad.

Peace

It wasn't me!

I have to say Mak and Dan, as someone at the other end of a military career I love the stories too. From my own contemporaries' tales from Lebanon, it's a very different place now, in large part due to the work of those who went before like yourselves. I've no doubt the future is going to see more of the DF abroad improving the lives of people who couldn't identify Ireland on a map. It's nice to look forward to being part of that legacy.

"Army coup to take place" would be a great name for a band.

arybvtcw0eolkf

It wasn't me! wrote: »

I have to say Mak and Dan, as someone at the other end of a military career I love the stories too. From my own contemporaries' tales from Lebanon, it's a very different place now, in large part due to the work of those who went before like yourselves. I've no doubt the future is going to see more of the DF abroad improving the lives of people who couldn't identify Ireland on a map. It's nice to look forward to being part of that legacy.

Passing the Mil-Col and seen the future out doing burpee's in the snow & ice earlier today, my time is pretty short now.. I'm a 24 hour duty this weekend for €20, it'll cost me half that to feed myself and the rest will be taken up in tolls and fuel getting to work.

There's not another job in the whole country, probably not in Europe where one will be paid something so small, a paltry fee that it'll cost them to actually go into work.

And thats' one of the only negatives I'll take from thirty plus years service to the state, I was always paid a pittance & looked down upon by all but a very small minority who appreciated what we gave.

Good luck in your future career.

Manic Moran

It is a bit interesting to be looking at the next generation, isn’t it? When I was a company commander, the term “The Old Man” which until then I had considered to be a term of endearment suddenly became literal.

Things only got worse from there. Now I’m at the rank where new privates will try to avoid me, and my ribbon rack intimidates them. Watching them getting the gentle guidance of NCOs for things that you wonder why they need the guidance in the first place.

And you realize as you look at them that the Army is changing. Hopefully for the better, but it’s definitely a new guard.

DanMurphy

It wasn't me! wrote: »

I have to say Mak and Dan, as someone at the other end of a military career I love the stories too. From my own contemporaries' tales from Lebanon, it's a very different place now, in large part due to the work of those who went before like yourselves. I've no doubt the future is going to see more of the DF abroad improving the lives of people who couldn't identify Ireland on a map. It's nice to look forward to being part of that legacy.

Thanks for those sentiments.
In the distant future many Irish people will go on holidays to Lebanon and will enjoy the sights of the South, just like they do nowadays to Cyprus!