Snag list / Engineers report before signing contract

ted1

Op you are buying a house that’s secondhand that may be several decades old. You can’t expect everything in it to be like new. Unless there’s actual structural issues than there is really nothing to negotiate.

If I was selling and some one tried to negotiate after a price was agreed I’d tell them to take a hike. The agreed price is the price and negotiation afterwards isn’t very ethical

Squatman

ted1 wrote: »

Op you are buying a house that’s secondhand that may be several decades old. You can’t expect everything in it to be like new. Unless there’s actual structural issues than there is really nothing to negotiate.

If I was selling and some one tried to negotiate after a price was agreed I’d tell them to take a hike. The agreed price is the price and negotiation afterwards isn’t very ethical

Thats not really the question that i asked. Im not expecting anything to be like new. There is ALWAYS something to negotiate, and you would be a fool not to. How and ever, you are entitled to your opinion.
What would you do, if you were buying a house and wanted the best price possible?

Squatman

the_pen_turner wrote: »

In what way

simply put, you would pay top dollar for a house, and wouldnt ask for anything to be fixed yourself.
Also your claim to be more clued in that your average buyer - due to being capable of carrying out the "survey" without the correct qualifications is as valid as my claim to being a structural engineer. I am not, and you are not.

Troll another thread.

the_pen_turner

Squatman wrote: »

simply put, you would pay top dollar for a house, and wouldnt ask for anything to be fixed yourself.
Also your claim to be more clued in that your average buyer - due to being capable of carrying out the "survey" without the correct qualifications is as valid as my claim to being a structural engineer. I am not, and you are not.

Troll another thread.

troll you have to be kidding. the irony


I don't see why the buyer has any right to demand (ask all you like but be laughed at) that anything be done that they want. certain things like structural or legal stuff yes but not minor stuff like your talking about

I'm not saying I can do a surveyors job. but any half decent tradesman should be able to see a lot of stuff that the average buyer wouldn't see.
I would see my self competent to see if a roof was in good condition or windows operable or if most aspects of the house look and work correctly. I have worked with serval different trades over the years and studied different areas as well so I feel I know the basics.
I'm not and have no intention of being able to give an official verdict on lots of stuff like structural, electrical or plumbing. but I would be able to look at the quality and workmanship of electrical and plumbing and see if it has been done professionally or bodged. and also if it has been changed several times.

I wonder how you as an expert seemed to miss bits of the roof missing and badly failed window pains and failed to look at the ancient boiler

ted1

Squatman wrote: »

ted1 wrote: »

Op you are buying a house that’s secondhand that may be several decades old. You can’t expect everything in it to be like new. Unless there’s actual structural issues than there is really nothing to negotiate.

If I was selling and some one tried to negotiate after a price was agreed I’d tell them to take a hike. The agreed price is the price and negotiation afterwards isn’t very ethical

Thats not really the question that i asked. Im not expecting anything to be like new. There is ALWAYS something to negotiate, and you would be a fool not to. How and ever, you are entitled to your opinion.
What would you do, if you were buying a house and wanted the best price possible?

I’d negotiate the price and pay the agreed price. I like to think that I’m a honourable person who doesn’t try to renage in agreed deals

Squatman

ted1 wrote: »

I’d negotiate the price and pay the agreed price. I like to think that I’m a honourable person who doesn’t try to renage in agreed deals

Nothing agreed yet. Have you ever bought a house oh honourable one?

Squatman

the_pen_turner wrote: »

troll you have to be kidding. the irony


I don't see why the buyer has any right to demand (ask all you like but be laughed at) that anything be done that they want. certain things like structural or legal stuff yes but not minor stuff like your talking about

I'm not saying I can do a surveyors job. but any half decent tradesman should be able to see a lot of stuff that the average buyer wouldn't see.
I would see my self competent to see if a roof was in good condition or windows operable or if most aspects of the house look and work correctly. I have worked with serval different trades over the years and studied different areas as well so I feel I know the basics.
I'm not and have no intention of being able to give an official verdict on lots of stuff like structural, electrical or plumbing. but I would be able to look at the quality and workmanship of electrical and plumbing and see if it has been done professionally or bodged. and also if it has been changed several times.

I wonder how you as an expert seemed to miss bits of the roof missing and badly failed window pains and failed to look at the ancient boiler

Apologies its my fault for the confusion. I shouldnt have engaged in a game of wits with an unarmed man. Now please stop depriving some poor village of their idiot.

Squatman

Mods can you lock this up please. Got the answer i needed from the minority of informed posters. Thanks guys.

the_pen_turner

Squatman wrote: »

Apologies its my fault for the confusion. I shouldnt have engaged in a game of wits with an unarmed man. Now please stop depriving some poor village of their idiot.

I'm sorry for taking you away from you village

Graham

Mod Note: If you have a problem with a post report it.

If you've asked for opinions, don't expect them all to agree with you. Ignore them, refute them, counter them but stop getting snippy over them.

Effects

Can we have a daft link to the house?

ted1

Squatman wrote: »

ted1 wrote: »

I’d negotiate the price and pay the agreed price. I like to think that I’m a honourable person who doesn’t try to renage in agreed deals

Nothing agreed yet. Have you ever bought a house oh honourable one?

Yes, I have. The survey is generally done after the sale price is agreed so I’d reckon that it is agreed

You also said “Myself and Mrs squatman have gone sale agreed on a home” so how do you now say that nothing is agreed?

Gumbo

Effects wrote: »

Can we have a daft link to the house?

I don’t think there’s a house

Squatman

ted1 wrote: »

Yes, I have. The survey is generally done after the sale price is agreed so I’d reckon that it is agreed

You also said “Myself and Mrs squatman have gone sale agreed on a home” so how do you now say that nothing is agreed?

nothing is agreed until the contract is signed -- (as youd know from buying your own house):rolleyes:

ted1

Squatman wrote: »

ted1 wrote: »

Yes, I have. The survey is generally done after the sale price is agreed so I’d reckon that it is agreed

You also said “Myself and Mrs squatman have gone sale agreed on a home” so how do you now say that nothing is agreed?

nothing is agreed until the contract is signed -- (as youd know from buying your own house):rolleyes:

What do you think sale agreed means? It means you and the owner have agreed a price on which he will sell you his home.

Squatman

ted1 wrote: »

What do you think sale agreed means? It means you and the owner have agreed a price on which he will sell you his home.

and I will agree to a price when I sign the contract. Simples.:D

ted1

Squatman wrote: »

ted1 wrote: »

What do you think sale agreed means? It means you and the owner have agreed a price on which he will sell you his home.

and I will agree to a price when I sign the contract. Simples.:D

That’s if you get that far, if I was selling I’d tear up the deposit and sell to someone who doesn’t mess about and renage on agreements

NinjaTruncs

Squatman wrote: »

simply put, you would pay top dollar for a house, and wouldnt ask for anything to be fixed yourself.
Also your claim to be more clued in that your average buyer - due to being capable of carrying out the "survey" without the correct qualifications is as valid as my claim to being a structural engineer. I am not, and you are not.

Troll another thread.

You can ask, but there is no obligation on the seller to fix anything as the house is sold as seen. Unlike with new houses where you buy based on seeing a sample house, you then carry out a snag list which is supposed to highlight any issues or omission from the spec of the show house, interesting for new houses contracts have been signed long before the snag happens so if the developers won't fix something on your have little option but to suck it up as you are contracted to buying.

With a secondhand house usually people carry out a survey to determine any big issues that have developed over the life of the property, if an engineers report has 15 issues listed the house should be falling down, however, in an attempt to deliver value for money and possibly to mitigate being sued they list every little detail to cover themselves.

The survey results should really be used as a go-no-go decision for proceeding with the house, but it's more and more common for people to use them as a tool for trying to justify knocking money off the price they have agreed to pay for the property. I'll agree to a price the seller is happy with and then use the survey to knock 5K off just before the sale goes through and hope the seller is too committed to refuse.

While estate agents don't give a **** about their clients and only want a quick sale, they should really be insisting on a survey to be carried out before the property goes sale agreed and the process gets to the contract stage, as the sellers will incur solicitor fees in doing so.

All you can do it ask, but don't be surprised if the seller is pissed that it's been left so late to try renegotiate.

Edit, and if you are paying top price that means you must have had a co-bidder who the sellers could go back to.

1641

ted1 wrote: »

That’s if you get that far, if I was selling I’d tear up the deposit and sell to someone who doesn’t mess about and renage on agreements

Which is more or less what we did when selling (we returned the deposit rather than tearing it up:)). We were prepared to accept slightly less, rather than continue with the bidder who wanted to "negotiate" further after going "sale agreed". As it happens we did better financially - €5k - and sold to lovely people who were very happy with their deal.

sulli

i don't understand what the issue is? It's a negotiating process...if you don't ask, you don't get! If you ask, all they have to do is say no! In my case, I asked for 5k off and got 3k...worst case scenario they say no and you just get on with it.

Squatman

sulli wrote: »

i don't understand what the issue is? It's a negotiating process...if you don't ask, you don't get! If you ask, all they have to do is say no! In my case, I asked for 5k off and got 3k...worst case scenario they say no and you just get on with it.

I think you came to the wrong thread using logic...

Paddytheman

NinjaTruncs wrote: »

The survey results should really be used as a go-no-go decision for proceeding with the house, but it's more and more common for people to use them as a tool for trying to justify knocking money off the price they have agreed to pay for the property. I'll agree to a price the seller is happy with and then use the survey to knock 5K off just before the sale goes through and hope the seller is too committed to refuse.

o.

Have to disagree with this, as a house buyer the majority of us are untrained in surveying a property and agree to pay a price for the property as we see it. Now if a bit of upgrading/servicing is required thats acceptable as its not a new property.

If a major issue turns up such as my case where the trusses had been cut and the roof wasnt structurally sound I believe a buyer has every right to negotiate or withdraw. We were looking for a solution estimated around €8,000 which they refused and in turn sold for €20,000 less, looks like we may have overbid but thats what it was worth to us as a structurally sound building.

Using the car anology again you dont buy without having your mechanic look over it, unfortunately with houses the process is to first agree a price then send in your mechanic...

NinjaTruncs

Paddytheman wrote: »

Have to disagree with this, as a house buyer the majority of us are untrained in surveying a property and agree to pay a price for the property as we see it. Now if a bit of upgrading/servicing is required thats acceptable as its not a new property.

If a major issue turns up such as my case where the trusses had been cut and the roof wasnt structurally sound I believe a buyer has every right to negotiate or withdraw. We were looking for a solution estimated around €8,000 which they refused and in turn sold for €20,000 less, looks like we may have overbid but thats what it was worth to us as a structurally sound building.

Using the car anology again you dont buy without having your mechanic look over it, unfortunately with houses the process is to first agree a price then send in your mechanic...

That's only because this is the way buyers want it as they don't want to pay for surveys for every house they are willing to bid on. Why are people willing to spend ~100 (or whatever inspections cost) on a car for 10K/20K but aren't willing to spend 300-500 on a house that could cost them 300K plus? It makes no sense that they are laxer when it comes to buying a house than they are with a car.

If people chose to do surveys on properties, once they decide they want to buy it, they wouldn't get caught up in the bidding process so much, prices agreed with be fixed as they would have the information needed prior to setting their final price, doing it the way we do in the Irish market highlights how dysfunctional our system is.

1641

Paddytheman wrote: »

If a major issue turns up such as my case where the trusses had been cut and the roof wasnt structurally sound I believe a buyer has every right to negotiate or withdraw. We were looking for a solution estimated around €8,000 which they refused and in turn sold for €20,000 less, looks like we may have overbid but thats what it was worth to us as a structurally sound building.

That is fair enough, but your surveyor turned up a major structural issue. That is very different from a list of relative trivia, such that might be expected in a house several years/decades old.We also bought and we never viewed any house in perfect condition, and we expected a survey to turn up minor faults.Planning or major structural issues are a different matter.

Paddytheman

NinjaTruncs wrote: »

That's only because this is the way buyers want it as they don't want to pay for surveys for every house they are willing to bid on. Why are people willing to spend ~100 (or whatever inspections cost) on a car for 10K/20K but aren't willing to spend 300-500 on a house that could cost them 300K plus? It makes no sense that they are laxer when it comes to buying a house than they are with a car.

If people chose to do surveys on properties, once they decide they want to buy it, they wouldn't get caught up in the bidding process so much, prices agreed with be fixed as they would have the information needed prior to setting their final price, doing it the way we do in the Irish market highlights how dysfunctional our system is.

Really €100 on a car versus €500 on a house, dont know about you but plenty of people are just scraping together a deposit trying to buy a house for their family. Bidding on several properties say 4 (many people on here bidding on many more) could cost €2000 without even getting to the SA stage. Seems like dead money to me.

Sarn

Paddytheman wrote: »

Really €100 on a car versus €500 on a house, dont know about you but plenty of people are just scraping together a deposit trying to buy a house for their family. Bidding on several properties say 4 (many people on here bidding on many more) could cost €2000 without even getting to the SA stage. Seems like dead money to me.

I would have to agree with this. We would be down thousands by now if we got a survey on every house before we went sale agreed.

mloc123

People do it for sure, it seemed more common a few years ago when it was a "buyers market".

If you want to try and haggle after a survey, go ahead... it will piss off the sellers for sure. They may decide to pull out and go back to market... they may also decide to knock a couple of k off.

We are recently sale agreed, if the buyers had attempted to haggle we would have re-listed the house... for the most part it is a sellers market at the moment and people do not like being messed around.

mloc123

NinjaTruncs wrote: »

That's only because this is the way buyers want it as they don't want to pay for surveys for every house they are willing to bid on. Why are people willing to spend ~100 (or whatever inspections cost) on a car for 10K/20K but aren't willing to spend 300-500 on a house that could cost them 300K plus? It makes no sense that they are laxer when it comes to buying a house than they are with a car.

If people chose to do surveys on properties, once they decide they want to buy it, they wouldn't get caught up in the bidding process so much, prices agreed with be fixed as they would have the information needed prior to setting their final price, doing it the way we do in the Irish market highlights how dysfunctional our system is.

You don't get outbid on cars... you view a car, there is a set price and if you are willing to pay it you buy it. This isn't the case with houses... you might get outbid on 5,10.. 20 houses before getting one you wanted. All those 500 euro surveys add up in that scenario.

dubrov

mloc123 wrote: »

People do it for sure, it seemed more common a few years ago when it was a "buyers market".

If you want to try and haggle after a survey, go ahead... it will piss off the sellers for sure. They may decide to pull out and go back to market... they may also decide to knock a couple of k off.

We are recently sale agreed, if the buyers had attempted to haggle we would have re-listed the house... for the most part it is a sellers market at the moment and people do not like being messed around.

If I found a major issue in a survey and you refused to adjust the price, I would be happy to let you keep the house. You'd find the same thing would happen with the next seller and the one after that. Pretty soon you will be open to negotiations.

mloc123

dubrov wrote: »

If I found a major issue in a survey and you refused to adjust the price, I would be happy to let you keep the house. You'd find the same thing would happen with the next seller and the one after that. Pretty soon you will be open to negotiations.

Major issues for sure... anything structural and most people will walk away, they don't want a discount. But haggling 2,3 or 4k off the agreed price because the boiler is old or some windows need replacing etc... All older houses have some minor warts, if you want a perfect house buy a new build.