Alt Coin Thread (Vertcoin, OMG, CVC, PAY etc).

Tinder Surprise

kaymin wrote: »

but it's going in one direction long-term.

is this not exactly the sort of thing you've just scorned?

How on earth do you know this no more than anyone else claiming its gonna boom?

fionny

GreeBo

jester77 wrote: »

We are only back where we were a few weeks ago, a lot of drama going around. My porfolio on xmas eve/day was worth less than what is right now.

True, but mine was also worth $65K more in the first week of January than it is now.

kaymin

Tinder Surprise wrote: »

is this not exactly the sort of thing you've just scorned?

How on earth do you know this no more than anyone else claiming its gonna boom?

Because i'm a fundamentalist and the fundamental value of crypto-currencies is zero. There's nothing to back-up the current values other than the willingness of someone else to buy it from you.

I'm sure you've heard this argument a thousand times but with FIAT you have an economy backing up the currency i.e. the currency can be used to purchase products and services from the underlying economy. Crypto currencies is not legal tender - there is no obligation to accept crypto currencies by players in the economy.

Fionny - those charts demonstrate nothing other than this is another bubble of tulip proportions.

ZeroThreat

kaymin wrote: »

Obviously there are benefits to the technology but when the central banks come together to decide what their offering will be, everything else will fall by the wayside.

Why would you want some sort of crypto created by a central bank, especially a cluster**** of a central bank like our own central bank?

My memory may be hazy, but I thought the first and best known crypto was created due to someone being fed up with central banks after the global crash.

I'm not really of the herd mentality, I don't just search for bias confirmation, I read forums such as askaboutmoney where practically every post about bitcoin has been predicting it's demise for the past 5 years or more.

P.S. Are you Brendan Burgess incognito?, you sure sound like a clone of him.

kaymin

ZeroThreat wrote: »

Why would you want some sort of crypto created by a central bank, especially a cluster**** of a central bank like our own central bank?

My memory may be hazy, but I thought the first and best known crypto was created due to someone being fed up with central banks after the global crash.

I'm not really of the herd mentality, I don't just search for bias confirmation, I read forums such as askaboutmoney where practically every post about bitcoin has been predicting it's demise for the past 5 years or more.

P.S. Are you Brendan Burgess incognito?, you sure sound like a clone of him.

No, I'm not Brendan Burgess and I don't read askaboutmoney

If you think crypto-currencies will make it to the mainstream without regulation from the central banks you are very wrong. The central banks could well set up their own crypto currencies. Either way the future is bleak for the current crop.

grindle

kaymin wrote: »

...ignorant waffling...

If you believe everything you've said you haven't done a single bit of research.

Utility tokens have an innate value if they grant you access to a service or ecosystem you want to use.

Security tokens dish out dividends on profits made.

Coins that focus on security and/or privacy also have innate value.

kaymin

grindle wrote: »

Security tokens dish out dividends on profits made.

Explain to me how the profits are generated to fund these dividends?

Sparks43

To tell you the tooth I'm finally thinking about a small speculation into the world of crypto. And my coin of choice is Dentacoin.

Not looking at huge amounts to invest and looking at it as a hobby.

Any starting advice is welcome

Blacktie.

Sparks43 wrote: »

To tell you the tooth I'm finally thinking about a small speculation into the world of crypto. And my coin of choice is Dentacoin.

Not looking at huge amounts to invest and looking at it as a hobby.

Any starting advice is welcome

I advise not investing in Dentacoin.

grindle

kaymin wrote: »

Explain to me how the profits are generated to fund these dividends?

For one example a hedge fund that profits from exchange arbitrage opportunities shares it's profit @ pre-defined block numbers and distributes profit to the token holders. Rialto | XRL

For another, fees collected in the form of the coin or through the use of it would be distributed to holders, like NEO.

You appear to know so little about the cryptocurrency economy that you aren't aware there are large businesses behind some of these ideas?

You think every single last one is just a faux currency clone?

Read up on it before debating it, you'll only look foolish.

ZeroThreat

grindle wrote: »

For one example a hedge fund that profits from exchange arbitrage opportunities shares it's profit @ pre-defined block numbers and distributes profit to the token holders. Rialto | XRL

For another, fees collected in the form of the coin or through the use of it would be distributed to holders, like NEO.

You appear to know so little about the cryptocurrency economy that you aren't aware there are large businesses behind some of these ideas?

You think every single last one is just a faux currency clone?

Read up on it before debating it, you'll only look foolish.

he'd probably like the idea of ripple if he knew big banking was behind it

kaymin

grindle wrote: »

For one example a hedge fund that profits from exchange arbitrage opportunities shares it's profit @ pre-defined block numbers and distributes profit to the token holders. Rialto | XRL

For another, fees collected in the form of the coin or through the use of it would be distributed to holders, like NEO.

You appear to know so little about the cryptocurrency economy that you aren't aware there are large businesses behind some of these ideas?

You think every single last one is just a faux currency clone?

Read up on it before debating it, you'll only look foolish.

So the profits are generated from trading the coins? Sorry but that's a pyramid scheme.

kaymin

ZeroThreat wrote: »

he'd probably like the idea of ripple if he knew big banking was behind it

Is it legal tender? No, so I'm not interested.

grindle

kaymin wrote: »

So the profits are generated from trading the coins? Sorry but that's a pyramid scheme.

How do you think Forex trading works? How do you think market-making happens? Are these very common, profitable & useful stock-market-balancing businesses pyramid schemes?

kaymin

Fair enough if you want to ridicule me for expressing an opinion but you should heed the advice of Warren Buffet, one of the best investors that ever lived:

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/01/10/buffett-says-cyrptocurrencies-will-almost-certainly-end-badly.html

Well, Warren Buffet doesn't understand crypto currencies - he even admitted he doesn't understand it. That's just his modesty talking.

kaymin

grindle wrote: »

How do you think Forex trading works? How do you think market-making happens? Are these very common, profitable & useful stock-market-balancing businesses pyramid schemes?

Yes, but profits will be made only if there are coin trades, the same way that you will profit from holding coins only if you can find someone to buy it from you at a price higher than you paid for it. There's no value being generated from coin trades - as soon as the buyers stop appearing the profits stop whether from arbitrage, market-making, buy and hold or other investment approaches - its a form of a pyramid scheme.

The same argument does not hold for an equity (with a real business underlying it) or an economy (a reference to forex that you mentioned).

Tinder Surprise

Anyone holding any WABI ?

KilOit

So tired of posters and news organizations talking about Warren Buffet, every bloody time they bring in old crusty men to talk about stuff that is so beyond them, it's so frustrating listening to them and reading headlines on Cnbc and cnn, Bloomberg has the odd decent person that knows a thing or 2 but the rest just have an agenda and want to see it fail.

kaymin

KilOit wrote: »

So tired of posters and news organizations talking about Warren Buffet, every bloody time they bring in old crusty men to talk about stuff that is so beyond them, it's so frustrating listening to them and reading headlines on Cnbc and cnn, Bloomberg has the odd decent person that knows a thing or 2 but the rest just have an agenda and want to see it fail.

That's the self-delusion I'm talking about. Maybe you should listen to what they have to say rather than continue with your blinkered vision.

I've been told by grindle that I'm embarrassing myself with my lack of knowledge of cryptos yet he's investing in a pyramid scheme without even realising it.

Rumpy Pumpy

Blockchain is fine technology, and has many practical applications. However the coins generated are essentially worthless. Ripple has what, billions of coins? Who decided their inherent worth, and why would a bank decide to use these coins rather than fork the technology and create their own? There isn’t some massive transfer of wealth taking place. It’s a classic pump and dump operation. Net value of almost every coin is 0.

grindle

kaymin wrote: »

...Warren Buffet doesn't understand crypto currencies - he even admitted he doesn't understand it.

That's the point though - he doesn't understand it.

That's not modesty, he genuinely doesn't understand it. He doesn't see jobs in certain sectors being nullified and/or refined because he hasn't taken the time to figure it out.

Your opinion is only as good as your judgement and you'll have to admit you haven't even taken a minute to judge the pros and cons of token-based economics at all.

If we're going to have billionaire dick-swinging contests:

Bill Gates wrote:

Bitcoin is exciting because it shows how cheap it can be, Bitcoin is better than currency in that you don't have to be physically in the same place and, of course, for large transactions, currency can get pretty inconvenient.

Peter Thiel wrote:

Cryptocurrencies...specifically Bitcoin...is very underestimated.

Hrmm. Weird. They seem bullish.
Ethereum is probably a scam though, right, completely valueless, not like any company would devote any time or effort into...Oh.

Interesting.
Microsoft, Intel, UBS, Scotiabank, Santander, Samsung, Rabobank, Reuters, JP Morgan, ING, Deloitte, Credit Suisse, Cisco, Accenture all seem to see value in the blockchain economy. Weird.
But those guys are all idiots. You're the one that's right. These cryptos have no use.

kaymin wrote: »

Yes, but profits will be made only if there are coin trades, the same way that you will profit from holding coins only if you can find someone to buy it from you at a price higher than you paid for it. There's no value being generated from coin trades - as soon as the buyers stop appearing the profits stop whether from arbitrage, market-making, buy and hold or other investment approaches - its a form of a pyramid scheme.

The same argument does not hold for an equity (with a real business underlying it) or an economy (a reference to forex that you mentioned).

You're arguing that trading is an outright Pyramid scheme now. Right.

lordlame

kaymin wrote: »

That's the self-delusion I'm talking about. Maybe you should listen to what they have to say rather than continue with your blinkered vision.

I've been told by grindle that I'm embarrassing myself with my lack of knowledge of cryptos yet he's investing in a pyramid scheme without even realising it.

Hi Kaymin

I think you’ve hit the nail on the head .. I have a small amount of holdings and am fully aware that it is a “gamble” and NOT an “investment”

Sure some fella just had “65k” wiped off his “profits” .. no big deal though :rolleyes:



I just want a lambo with fries ...

grindle

Rumpy Pumpy wrote: »

Who decided their inherent worth, and why would a bank decide to use these coins rather than fork the technology and create their own?

The market decides their worth and a bank would use them rather than fork them so that they get updates. Very presumptuous of a bank to think they could just fork something and not have to deal with the upkeep.

kaymin

grindle wrote: »

That's the point though - he doesn't understand it.

That's not modesty, he genuinely doesn't understand it. He doesn't see jobs in certain sectors being nullified and/or refined because he hasn't taken the time to figure it out.

Your opinion is only as good as your judgement and you'll have to admit you haven't even taken a minute to judge the pros and cons of token-based economics at all.

If we're going to have billionaire dick-swinging contests:





Hrmm. Weird. They seem bullish.
Ethereum is probably a scam though, right, completely valueless, not like any company would devote any time or effort into...Oh.

Interesting.
Microsoft, Intel, UBS, Scotiabank, Santander, Samsung, Rabobank, Reuters, JP Morgan, ING, Deloitte, Credit Suisse, Cisco, Accenture all seem to see value in the blockchain economy. Weird.
But those guys are all idiots. You're the one that's right. These cryptos have no use.


You're arguing that trading is an outright Pyramid scheme now. Right.

I didn't say there wasn't value in blockchain technology. Sure why don't you go all in if you are so certain about the prospects for the current crop of crypto currencies.

btw - I'd say I know a lot more about the fundamentals of crypto currencies than you do given you can't even acknowledge a pyramid scheme when it's staring you in the face.

grindle

kaymin wrote: »

Sure why don't you go all in

I pretty much am.

kaymin wrote: »

btw - I'd say I know a lot more about the fundamentals of crypto currencies than you do given you can't even acknowledge a pyramid scheme when it's staring you in the face.

BitConnect -> Actual pyramid scheme

Ethereum -> Linux for finance

Bitcoin -> The most secure distributed network and store of value on earth

An arbitrage bot seeking small discrepencies between exchanges isn't a pyramid scheme - please, for your own sake, try to read up on what you're debating about.

kaymin

lordlame wrote: »

Hi Kaymin

I think you’ve hit the nail on the head .. I have a small amount of holdings and am fully aware that it is a “gamble” and NOT an “investment”

Sure some fella just had “65k” wiped off his “profits” .. no big deal though :rolleyes:

I just want a lambo with fries ...

Well, as they say, don't invest money you aren't prepared to lose.

I don't see any prospect of a central bank adopting bitcoin or any other crypto coin currently out there as legal tender - it would basically amount to handing Joe Bloggs billions of dollars for nothing. That's the endgame.

kaymin

grindle wrote: »

Bitcoin -> The most secure distributed network and store of value on earth

Store of value!! - have you not seen the bitcoin price graph? It might be secure relative to other crypto currencies but is it as secure as FIAT? You really are talking through your a**e

Akrasia

Crypto, especially alt coins are absolutely pyramid schemes, the only people who will make money are the early adopters who dump their coins when the price is high.

Pyramid schemes come in waves, as they begin to run out of steam, people start their own so they can be on the bottom rung of their own scheme. It is possible to get very wealthy running these schemes if you're prepared to screw your investors, which is why the whole market is built on sand. All these exchanges are full of people potentially waiting for their chance to go rogue and disappear with their clients money.

A lot of 'hacks' are probably carried out by insiders at the exchanges. The selling point of blockchain, that its secure and private, is also its biggest weakness, when you get robbed, you will have no way of finding out who robbed you.

Rumpy Pumpy

grindle wrote: »

I pretty much am.


BitConnect -> Actual pyramid scheme

Ethereum -> Linux for finance

Bitcoin -> The most secure distributed network and store of value on earth

An arbitrage bot seeking small discrepencies between exchanges isn't a pyramid scheme - please, for your own sake, try to read up on what you're debating about.

Ethereum is the Linux for finance? What does that even mean? I work in an industry where we are actively looking at blockchain technology, and ethereum is a fine, if flawed, implementation of that technology. However any implementation would not use the ethereum coin that people are wildly speculating on at the moment. You’d roll your own, or create a semiprivate blockchain. This is a company that everyone in the country knows and whose services they use every single day. Indeed it’s hard to see major benefits at the moment over plain old transactional systems such as a database.