Trump/US to recognise Jerusalem as Isreal's capital

Supergurrier

What are peoples thought on this and the reasoning behind it.

Personally i feel it will kick off a major ****storm in the middle east and it makes a joke of what remains of the peace treaty that once was.

Strikes me as a legitimization of the major land grab that has been ongoing for some time now. Im not pro either side but i think it's pretty plain to see what's going on here.

The_Valeyard

Its an unbelievably stupid decision.

Its as if Trump thought "how else can we fcuk up the Middle East"

pickarooney

I don't understand. If Israel decrees Tel Aviv as the capital and Trump says it's Israel how is that different to me saying New Is the capital of the USA?

EndaHonesty

Does Israel even claim Jerusalem as it's capital?!

The_Valeyard

EndaHonesty wrote: »

Does Israel even claim Jerusalem as it's capital?!

Yes

EndaHonesty

The_Valeyard wrote: »

Yes

Link?

jojofizzio

Is it just another example of him saying to himself last weekend....”Mmmmm...haven’t been in the headlines since ...oh..Thursday....let’s me just think of something else that will get the world talking...and sod the consequences for millions of people”...it’s like he’s just taking the complete p1ss at every opportunity at this stage....

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

EndaHonesty wrote: »

Link?

Just look it up.

Israel designated Jerusalem as its capital in 1950, yet most countries maintain their embassies in Tel Aviv due to ongoing political debate with the Palestinians.

ceadaoin.

He was totally slurring and speaking weirdly during the speech. What is wrong with him?

Del.Monte

EndaHonesty wrote: »

Link?

Surely there's no need for a link as anybody who hasn't been asleep for the last decade should know something as basic as that. The sooner Trump is 'looked after' the better for the planet.

jojofizzio

Some talking head on some talk show at the weekend saying “it’s inly a matter of time til he’s impeached “...based on the Mike Flynn claims about Russian links and the involvement of his son-in-law,saying there’s no way he’ll get away with denying knowledge of the above”...we’d never be that lucky would we??

dr.fuzzenstein

Would you like to play global thermonuclear war?

Ipso

The_Valeyard wrote: »

Its an unbelievably stupid decision.

Its as if Trump thought "how else can we fcuk up the Middle East"

He's surrounded himself with the dregs of the Christian right, Israel is important in their jesus returns/end times fantasy (and as for the joos there, they either accept Jesus or roast in hell).
Google the Left Behind series of books to see what you're dealing with.

Ipso

jojofizzio wrote: »

Some talking head on some talk show at the weekend saying “it’s inly a matter of time til he’s impeached “...based on the Mike Flynn claims about Russian links and the involvement of his son-in-law,saying there’s no way he’ll get away with denying knowledge of the above”...we’d never be that lucky would we??

No, the impeachment talk now is the same fantasy nonsense the tea party used to spout about Obama.
The Tea party II have been talking about impeachment for anything and everything since he got elected.

Fr_Dougal

Cork has responded by refuting the claim, and insists that it is in fact the real capital of everywhere.

JMNolan

I believe this was one of Trump's campaign promises.

Wailin

Trump is a warmongering scumbag. His plan is obvious. Destabilise the Middle East even more. Create more mass migration into Europe and put pressure on the EU creating economical tension. Europe will gradually weaken and America will become stronger because of it.

jojofizzio

Fr_Dougal wrote: »

Cork has responded by refuting the claim, and insists that it is in fact the real capital of everywhere.

I’d like to say that ‘s “fake news”....but it’s not :D

ceadaoin.

jojofizzio wrote: »

Some talking head on some talk show at the weekend saying “it’s inly a matter of time til he’s impeached “...based on the Mike Flynn claims about Russian links and the involvement of his son-in-law,saying there’s no way he’ll get away with denying knowledge of the above”...we’d never be that lucky would we??

Is pence any better though? Im not sure he is

Berserker

The_Valeyard wrote: »

Its as if Trump thought "how else can we fcuk up the Middle East"

And you know what, he's managed to do it. Gotta hand it Trump, he sets goals and achieves them.

EndaHonesty wrote: »

Does Israel even claim Jerusalem as it's capital?!

Massively, they consider it to be their true capital. This is a massive win for the Israelis.

Ipso

Wailin wrote: »

Trump is a warmongering scumbag. His plan is obvious. Destabilise the Middle East even more. Create more mass migration into Europe and put pressure on the EU creating economical tension. Europe will gradually weaken and America will become stronger because of it.

Great stuff. And people laughed at the tea party and their Obama conspiracies.

jojofizzio

ceadaoin. wrote: »

Is pence any better though? Im not sure he is

Don’t know what he’s like tbh...but surely anyone (and I mean anyone) is better than the Donald?..I’m not even aiming high here...I just think it’s appalling how immmature and downright reckless and dangerous this guy is turning out to be.....surely America could find someone better??

Berserker

jojofizzio wrote: »

Don’t know what he’s like tbh...but surely anyone (and I mean anyone) is better than the Donald?..

Could be a case of better the devil you know. Obama didn't cover himself in glory when it came to the middle east. Trump has some catching up to do on him on that front.

riemann

This is purely to take the heat off himself and his Israeli counterpart, both of whom are under investigation.

It really is sad as this will directly cause many unnecessary deaths.

Just goes to show how some people really only think of their own self preservation and greed.

Ipso

Berserker wrote: »

Could be a case of better the devil you know. Obama didn't cover himself in glory when it came to the middle east. Trump has some catching up to do on him on that front.

And it's hilarious that the foaming at the mouth anti trump resistance are mostly Hillary supporters; she voted for the Iraq War and was the main player in the Libya chaos.
There are a lot of valid reasons to criticize trump but the majority of it is tribalistic echo chamber driven.

Berserker

riemann wrote: »

It really is sad as this will directly cause many unnecessary deaths.

Was just thinking about that. Hard to see how this will not result in violence. The IDF will be kicking ass over the next few days and weeks.

Gbear

Wailin wrote: »

Trump is a warmongering scumbag. His plan is obvious. Destabilise the Middle East even more. Create more mass migration into Europe and put pressure on the EU creating economical tension. Europe will gradually weaken and America will become stronger because of it.

Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity.

He's proven time and again that he's an utter simpleton. He has a sort of low cunning and a degree of shamelessness that allows him to prosper when given enough of an advantage over people.

There's no evidence he's some sort of mastermind.

That said he has advisors who presumably aren't as thick as he is.

I could see his actions towards NK and in the Middle East being orchestrated by someone else within the administration for reasons spanning from ideological beliigerence in keeping with the spirit of the US, plain old racism, or for more practical reasons around supporting Israel, propping up a perpetual war economy or just stirring up a load of mischief to misdirect from the ongoing shambles of their own administration, but the sort of convoluted plot required to indirectly undermine the EU by driving Muslims towards it strikes me as pretty far fetched.

jojofizzio

Does anyone else just get quite nervous when they see him on tv or hear a report about what he tweeted.....can’t say any public figure has ever frightened me as much....the guys a complete liability

Wailin

Ipso wrote: »

There are a lot of valid reasons to criticize trump but the majority of it is tribalistic echo chamber driven.

Really? So basically Trump has started something that will lead to many people being killed, but its not a valid reason to criticize him? Go back to your tea party with your deluded ****e.

dxhound2005

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/19/world/middleeast/jerusalem-us-embassy-trump.html

In 1995, Congress passed a law declaring Jerusalem to be Israel’s capital and requiring the embassy be moved there by 1999 — or else the State Department building budget would be cut in half. But the law included a provision allowing presidents to waive its requirement for six months if they determined it was in the national interest. So every six months, Mr. Clinton, Mr. Bush and eventually President Obama signed such waivers, fearing a violent response in the Arab world if the embassy moved.

Putting off the decision of Congress for 22 years has not stopped the violence. So implementing it now will not make any difference.

Berserker

Ipso wrote: »

And it's hilarious that the foaming at the mouth anti trump resistance are mostly Hillary supporters; she voted for the Iraq War and was the main player in the Libya chaos.
There are a lot of valid reasons to criticize trump but the majority of it is tribalistic echo chamber driven.

Totally agree. The Clinton brigade should think twice before criticising Trump over any of his decisions on foreign policy. In agreement with another poster, this was one of his election promises. Have to hand it to the man, he makes promises and he delivers on them. That wall is going to be magnificent when he builds it. Wonder if he'll pass us over the leftover bricks to use on the border between NI and the RoI?

Wailin wrote: »

Trump is a warmongering scumbag. His plan is obvious. Destabilise the Middle East even more. Create more mass migration into Europe and put pressure on the EU creating economical tension. Europe will gradually weaken and America will become stronger because of it.

If the was the case, what plan did the Obama administration have in the Middle East? Also, the USA needs to tackle China first and foremost if it wants to get stronger.

Ipso

Wailin wrote: »

Really? So basically Trump has started something that will lead to many people being killed, but its not a valid reason to criticize him? Go back to your tea party with your deluded ****e.

Looks like we got a mensa member in here.

bear1

America doing what America does best. I.e. cause nothing but ball aches for the rest of us.

RustyNut

dxhound2005 wrote: »

Putting off the decision of Congress for 22 years has not stopped the violence. So implementing it now will not make any difference.

It will almost definitely increase the violence.

Wailin

Gbear wrote: »

There's no evidence he's some sort of mastermind.

Trump is no mastermind. He's just a suitable and willing puppet for the war hungry federal government.

conorhal

The_Valeyard wrote: »

Its an unbelievably stupid decision.

Its as if Trump thought "how else can we fcuk up the Middle East"

Well it's a step up from Obama and Hillary bombing the $h1t out of it.

This BTW, for anybody bothered to look it up was a Bill Clinton legislative policy proposal that is being enacted by Trump.

Ipso

conorhal wrote: »

Well it's a step up from Obama and Hillary bombing the $h1t out of it.

You must be in the tea party if you think that Hillary would support any war or military action!

Crea

Jerusalem is a divided city. The West Bank in Israel is considered a Palestinian territory and under joint Israeli-Palestinian authority
control. By recognising the city as the capital it essentially ignores any Palestinian claim on any part of the city. It's the 2nd most important religious site for Muslims so this move will be extremely unpopular amongst Arab states.
Already Palestinians are extremely badly treated in Jerusalem - it's an apartheid state based on religion- so I can see the treatment of Muslims getting worse and violence in the area escalating.

conorhal

Ipso wrote: »

You must be in the tea party if you think that Hillary would support any war or military action!

"We came, we saw, he died" Hillary laughs her ass off....

riffmongous

Berserker wrote: »

Was just thinking about that. Hard to see how this will not result in violence. The IDF will be kicking ass over the next few days and weeks.

Yeah shooting protesters, maybe they'll even bomb a hospital or school

Ulysses Gaze

Ipso wrote: »

You must be in the tea party if you think that Hillary would support any war or military action!

Berserker

riffmongous wrote: »

Yeah shooting protesters, maybe they'll even bomb a hospital or school

Well, if the usual suspects use schools or hospitals as bases to attack them they will. Calling them protesters is a bit generous.

RustyNut

riffmongous wrote: »

Yeah shooting protesters, maybe they'll even bomb a hospital or school

And keep the kids off the beach.

dxhound2005

Crea wrote: »

Jerusalem is a divided city. The Way Bank in Israel is considered a Palestinian territory and under joint Isreali-Palestinian authority
control. By recognising the city as the capital it essentially ignores any Palestinian claim on the city. It's the 2nd most important religious site for Muslims so this move will be extremely unpopular amongst Arab states.
Already Palestinians are extremely badly treated in Jerusalem - it's an apartheid state based on religion- so I can see the treatment of Muslims getting worse and violence in the area escalating.

It's only one country. Far from being ignored the Palestinian claim is recognised by lots of other countries.

Ulysses Gaze

riffmongous wrote: »

Yeah shooting protesters, maybe they'll even bomb a hospital or school

Hey, if Hamas/Hezbollah are going to set off bombs in Pizza parlors or bus stops, what are they supposed to do?

riffmongous

Berserker wrote: »

Well, if the usual suspects use schools or hospitals as bases to attack them they will. Calling them protesters is a bit generous.

Oh there will be loads of protesters shot before anything happens with Hamas

Berserker

riffmongous wrote: »

Oh there will be loads of protesters shot before anything happens with Hamas

Hamas/Hezbollah will instigate the violence like they always do.

riffmongous

Ulysses Gaze wrote: »

Hey, if Hamas/Hezbollah are going to set off bombs in Pizza parlors or bus stops, what are they supposed to do?

If Israel is shelling hospitals what are Hamas supposed to do? It's a bad argument that only de-legitimises Israel to the same level as terrorists

Crea

dxhound2005 wrote: »

It's only one country. Far from being ignored the Palestinian claim is recognised by lots of other countries.

But by doing this America is ignoring the Palestinian claim completely. Given there is a massive land grab into Palestinian lsns by Israelis and backed by the government I feel tjis step by Trump will escalate these land grabs until tgey are pushed off their lands completely

RustyNut

Ulysses Gaze wrote: »

Hey, if Hamas/Hezbollah are going to set off bombs in Pizza parlors or bus stops, what are they supposed to do?

Shell innocent kids playing on the beach, that will teach them.

Ipso

Ulysses Gaze wrote: »

Hey, if Hamas/Hezbollah are going to set off bombs in Pizza parlors or bus stops, what are they supposed to do?

Maybe they know what the Israeli response is going to be and who will be the victims and it helps play into their propaganda.