Trump/US to recognise Jerusalem as Isreal's capital

Crea

buzzerxx wrote: »

On the contrary,

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-palestinian-israel-children/palestinian-children-tortured-used-as-shields-by-israel-u-n-idUSBRE95J0FR20130620

Your link states that Israeli soldiers use Palestinian children as human shields, nothing about Hamas so my argument still stands.

tayto lover

Berserker wrote: »

If they opt for peaceful negotiations they won't. The financial benefits of conflict are too good for Hamas, unfortunately.

Not to mention the big Jewish armament companies in the US who fund Governments.

Ballstein

Berserker wrote: »

Oh, Israeli bad, Palestinian good. It's that simple, is it?

Pretty much

A Little Pony

tayto lover wrote: »

Berserker wrote: »

If they opt for peaceful negotiations they won't. The financial benefits of conflict are too good for Hamas, unfortunately.

Not to mention the big Jewish armament companies in the US who fund Governments.

Can't be saying that!:angel:

Odhinn

Berserker wrote: »

If they opt for peaceful negotiations they won't. The financial benefits of conflict are too good for Hamas, unfortunately.

Do please explain how they can "opt for peaceful negotiations".

Berserker wrote:

Oh, Israeli bad, Palestinian good. It's that simple, is it?

No, its this simple 'Israeli colonisation bad, Palestinian resistance good'.

Zebra3

Berserker wrote: »

If they opt for peaceful negotiations they won't. The financial benefits of conflict are too good for Hamas, unfortunately.

The financial benefits of the illegal Israeli occupation go to US companies that the media describe as “defence” or “aerospace” industry.

The US gives billions of dollars each year to Israel. Israel spends this on US made weapons.

If those weapons don’t get used, military aid will be cut.

So there’s a serious problem. Israel needs to be constantly at war to keep US funding coming in to profit US companies in the war industry.

And the victims are the voiceless, unpeople. The Palestinians.

And the US media fails to report honestly due to financial pressure from American pro-terrorist groups who support Israel’s crimes.

Chrongen

Berserker wrote: »

Nothing overly dangerous about this decision. Last time I checked he didn't declare war or threaten them. It's a crazy call alright but it was one of his election promises and we all know that he delivers on them. The only bully I can see today is Hamas, calling for an uprising and claiming that this is a declaration of war.

Nothing dangerous about this decision? Are you quite sure about that?

So just go ahead and do something to be a dick because you can is fine. After all the days of being a cool-headed, educated leader are long gone. Now it's OK to just be a prick for no gain other than to fcuk with people.

Snake Plisken

Chrongen wrote: »

Did the Palestinians or YOU for that matter have a decision in whether he or the american administration implemented that "promise"?

So if an idiot campaigns on a variety of pledges, one of which is "I'm going to kill all Nepalese people" and his crew vote him in anyway and then he decides to bomb Kathmandu, are you going to say that THEY should have spoken up?

Lol you seem triggered. Delighted President Trump has continued to fulfill his promises. Hopefully he will help Israel wipe the terrorist organisation Hamas from the face of the earth!

Chrongen

Snake Plisken wrote: »

Lol you seem triggered. Delighted President Trump has continued to fulfill his promises. Hopefully he will help Israel wipe the terrorist organisation Hamas from the face of the earth!

And when Hamas is "wiped out"..what then? Will you lick your lips as Israel continues to steal land from people? Will you clap with joy as non-Jews in Israel aren't allowed to vote in the "only democracy in the Middle East"?
Or is that something you don't like to think about?

You see, when Hamas is gone, then what, Snake? Peace? Harmony? Love?

Snake Plisken

Chrongen wrote: »

And when Hamas is "wiped out"..what then? Will you lick your lips as Israel continues to steal land from people? Will you clap with joy as non-Jews in Israel aren't allowed to vote in the "only democracy in the Middle East"?
Or is that something you don't like to think about?

You see, when Hamas is gone, then what, Snake? Peace? Harmony? Love?

No because the other Jew hating Muslims will continue to try and destroy the Jewish people and the state of Israel!

Chrongen

They get worked up over starving people in Ethiopia too and women being stoned to death in Saudi Arabia and quite a few other people who are subjected to misery.

end of the road

Snake Plisken wrote: »

Lol you seem triggered. Delighted President Trump has continued to fulfill his promises. Hopefully he will help Israel wipe the terrorist organisation Hamas from the face of the earth!

will never happen. while israel continues it's expansionist and ethnic cleansing policies, hamas will exist. the palestinians are going nowhere. no matter how much israel wants it

occupation, religious discrimination, sectarianism, murder of protesters. all happened on this island. so we have a lot in common with palestine. religious discrimination is still happening in ireland.

Snake Plisken wrote: »

No because the other Jew hating Muslims will continue to try and destroy the Jewish people and the state of Israel!

the state of israel is destroying itself believe it or not. slowly but surely. it actually has little genuine support now. most of the nations around the world just pay lip service to supporting it. even many jews are against it, because they are sick of it's behaviour and being blamed for it's behaviour.

JenovaProject

Chrongen wrote: »

They get worked up over starving people in Ethiopia too and women being stoned to death in Saudi Arabia and quite a few other people who are subjected to misery.

Nah not really.
I'm all for a bit of Palestine freedom but they're no angels in all this.

Chrongen

Berserker wrote: »

Oh, Israeli bad, Palestinian good. It's that simple, is it?

Well actually if you want to act simple then you will get simple.

Yes it IS that simple. Israel has evicted people from their own land and their justification is that the Bible says they can. The people who have been evicted fought back and they are called terrorists.

Is that simple enough for you?

Chrongen

JenovaProject wrote: »

Nah not really.
I'm all for a bit of Palestine freedom but they're no angels in all this.

You're right. A Palestinian kid watches his mother get beaten at a checkpoint for not exuding enough deference to the goons with the gun so he throws a rock at a tank.

What would you do? Say "Mum, chill out. Those guys are superior to us. Go back to your cleaning job even though you have a degree in Pharmacy." ?

JenovaProject

Chrongen wrote: »

You're right. A Palestinian kid watches his mother get beaten at a checkpoint for not exuding enough deference to the goons with the gun so he throws a rock at a tank.

What would you do? Say "Mum, chill out. Those guys are superior to us. Go back to your cleaning job even though you have a degree in Pharmacy." ?

What the fcuk are you on about?

Chrongen

JenovaProject wrote: »

What the fcuk are you on about?

You said the Palestinians aren't exactly angels, did you not?

Basically, according to you, nobody who fights oppression is an angel.

What are the Palestinians supposed to do?

A. Just continue to be persecuted

B. Continue to be persecuted but fight against it?

Because those are their choices. And before you chime in and say "they should stop fighting back and then talks can begin", that has been tried time and time again. Why does Israel have so many UN resolutions against it that mean nothing as they continue their campaign of ethnically cleansing Israel of all Arab people?


Explain that to me. I'd LOVE to hear your justification because quite obviously I am missing the bigger picture here.

JenovaProject

Chrongen wrote: »

You said the Palestinians aren't exactly angels, did you not?

Basically, according to you, nobody who fights oppression is an angel.

I did and theyre not.

In bold....Again what the fcuk are you on about?
Basically,according to me,the Palestinians are no angels in all this.Nothing more,nothing less.

Chrongen

Anyway, the whole thing smells of distraction.

What is happening while everyone talks about this?

Chrongen

JenovaProject wrote: »

I did and theyre not.

In bold....Again what the fcuk are you on about?
Basically,according to me,the Palestinians are no angels in all this.Nothing more,nothing less.

The Palestinians?

What, every single one of them? Every single man woman and child who are being oppressed? They're all "no angels"?

So if an entire population of Catholics in Northern Ireland are forced to live in ghettoes, are not allowed to vote, are banned from decent employment and are consistently beaten and killed by a police force who are supposed to protect them and if some of them fight back then they are ALL "no angels"?

Is that what you are trying to say? Of are you just going to feign ignorance by asking what the hell am I on about?

JenovaProject

Chrongen wrote: »

The Palestinians?

What, every single one of them? Every single man woman and child who are being oppressed? They're all "no angels"?

So if an entire population of Catholics in Northern Ireland are forced to live in ghettoes, are not allowed to vote, are banned from decent employment and are consistently beaten and killed by a police force who are supposed to protect them and if some of them fight back then they are ALL "no angels"?

Is that what you are trying to say? Of are you just going to feign ignorance by asking what the hell am I on about?

No obviously not!!!
Are going to feign ignorance when I say Palestinians by pretending I mean them all.
Obviously I mean the Israelis and Palestinians who cause trouble,not the innocent ones.
Obviously you just have no argument and are resorting to this silly childish bullsh1t.

There are no good guys in this conflict.Bad eggs on both sides.The likes of you give a free pass to Palestinian terrorists where normal sane folk can see its much more than one side causing all this trouble.

Arghus

Chrongen wrote: »

Anyway, the whole thing smells of distraction.

What is happening while everyone talks about this?

Robert Mueller and his pesky investigations are still rumbling along in the background and were the big news again this week, right up until Donald got everyone looking the other way again.

Chrongen

Chrongen wrote: »

The people who have been evicted fought back and they are called terrorists.

In fairness, killing athletes at an Olympics, attacking bus loads of school kids, targeting synagogues, suicide bomb attacks designed to kill as many tourists as possible...it's pretty much textbook terrorism.

Now you may feel the tactic is justified. You may say the Israelis do likewise. But to deny that they are terrorists...well that's just to misunderstand the word.

Nabber

Israel is more closely aligned with Western values. They offer women the same freedom as men. They are a unique piece of land within the Middle East.

They don’t persecute homo sexual or transgender...

Yet here we are feeling sorry for the Arab states that want Jews and gays dead. I never understood how a woman from the west could support states that suppress their gender.


Trump seems to get a lot of stick for doing what he said he’d do..

Wanderer78

Nabber wrote:

Yet here we are feeling sorry for the Arab states that want Jews and gays dead. I never understood how a woman from the west could support states that suppress their gender.

I know a woman that worked in the west bank for a while, she's very well informed in the politics of the region, and has some very disturbing stories of the treatment of the locals, on all sides. People should probably spend some time out there to truly understand what's going on before judging, including myself

Odhinn

Snake Plisken wrote: »

No because the other Jew hating Muslims will continue to try and destroy the Jewish people and the state of Israel!

Wonderful bit of rhetoric there. It'll move the discussion on no end.

nabber wrote:

Israel is more closely aligned with Western values. They offer women the same freedom as men. They are a unique piece of land within the Middle East.

They don’t persecute homo sexual or transgender..

Fairly sure the West has largely renounced colonialism.

Yes, if you ignore their brutal occupation of a few million people for nearly 50 years, the legal torture, the apartheid legal structure, the land theft, the killings, beatings and humiliation, they're grand.
http://www.btselem.org/

A Little Pony

Odhinn wrote: »

Snake Plisken wrote: »

No because the other Jew hating Muslims will continue to try and destroy the Jewish people and the state of Israel!

Wonderful bit of rhetoric there.  It'll move the discussion on no end.

nabber wrote:

Israel is more closely aligned with Western values. They offer women the same freedom as men. They are a unique piece of land within the Middle East.

They don’t persecute homo sexual or transgender..

Fairly sure the West has largely renounced colonialism.

Yes, if you ignore their brutal occupation of a few million people for nearly 50 years, the legal torture, the apartheid legal structure, the land theft, the killings, beatings and humiliation, they're grand.  
http://www.btselem.org/

Not exactly true. We have occupied Afghanistan, Iraq and got involved in Libya in the last 15 years.

Odhinn

A Little Pony wrote: »

Not exactly true. We have occupied Afghanistan, Iraq and got involved in Libya in the last 15 years.

True, but you aren't building semi-detached housing and subsidising the population to move there.

Tayschren

Nabber wrote: »

Israel is more closely aligned with Western values. They offer women the same freedom as men. They are a unique piece of land within the Middle East.

They don’t persecute homo sexual or transgender...

Yet here we are feeling sorry for the Arab states that want Jews and gays dead. I never understood how a woman from the west could support states that suppress their gender.


Trump seems to get a lot of stick for doing what he said he’d do..

Rubbish, every right and freedom you associate with Israel above is only given to Jews... All others are regarded as lower class citizens

A Little Pony

Odhinn wrote: »

A Little Pony wrote: »

Not exactly true. We have occupied Afghanistan, Iraq and got involved in Libya in the last 15 years.

True, but you aren't building semi-detached housing and subsidising the population to move there.

Israel and Palestine doesn't have a "solution" because Israel has put it into a situation now which makes any arrangement impossible. The only way Palestine get what they want is via a declaration of war and fighting for a country to gain it. It's not happening otherwise.

Odhinn

A Little Pony wrote: »

Israel and Palestine doesn't have a "solution" because Israel has put it into a situation now which makes any arrangement impossible. The only way Palestine get what they want is via a declaration of war and fighting for a country to gain it. It's not happening otherwise.

Or sanctions, like Apartheid SA, force Israel to the table.

A Little Pony

Odhinn wrote: »

A Little Pony wrote: »

Israel and Palestine doesn't have a "solution" because Israel has put it into a situation now which makes any arrangement impossible. The only way Palestine get what they want is via a declaration of war and fighting for a country to gain it. It's not happening otherwise.

Or sanctions, like Apartheid SA, force Israel to the table.

Jewish lobby is too powerful for that in America.

Odhinn

A Little Pony wrote: »

Jewish lobby is too powerful for that in America.

There's more to the world than the US, powerful though it is. It took decades for the anti-apartheid movement to take hold - these things take time.

A Little Pony

Odhinn wrote: »

A Little Pony wrote: »

Jewish lobby is too powerful for that in America.

There's more to the world than the US, powerful though it is.  It took decades for the anti-apartheid movement to take hold - these things take time.

It's been called for years and years to boycott Israel. Hasn't made any difference. Israel is too powerful.

Assetbacked

Nabber wrote: »

Israel is more closely aligned with Western values. They offer women the same freedom as men. They are a unique piece of land within the Middle East.

They don’t persecute homo sexual or transgender...

Yet here we are feeling sorry for the Arab states that want Jews and gays dead. I never understood how a woman from the west could support states that suppress their gender.


Trump seems to get a lot of stick for doing what he said he’d do..

The reaction to this decision would make one think that it was a great injustice but the fact of the matter is that they are violent, fascist bullies with minimal openness to change and a particular hatred to Jews. Reading news reports on various media shows quotes of dramatic words which don't imply peaceful responses. In addition, there are violent gestures being shown in different surrounding countries. Again, people should not be fooled into thinking that, based on these reactions, these people are right.

tayto lover

Nabber wrote: »

Israel is more closely aligned with Western values. They offer women the same freedom as men. They are a unique piece of land within the Middle East.

They don’t persecute homo sexual or transgender...

Yet here we are feeling sorry for the Arab states that want Jews and gays dead. I never understood how a woman from the west could support states that suppress their gender.


Trump seems to get a lot of stick for doing what he said he’d do..

Isn't it a pity then that they couldn't extend these rights to the Palestinians?

end of the road

Nabber wrote: »

Israel is more closely aligned with Western values.

only a small bit over all. in terms of tourism and those who are of the right varient of jew. in terms of others, well sadly they aren't so lucky.

Nabber wrote: »

They offer women the same freedom as men. They are a unique piece of land within the Middle East.

only european and american women are equal to men. all other women aren't equal to men. in fact, anyone who isn't the right varient of jew aren't equal to those of the right varient of jew.

Nabber wrote: »

They don’t persecute homo sexual or transgender...

shur that's grand then.

Nabber wrote: »

Yet here we are feeling sorry for the Arab states that want Jews and gays dead. I never understood how a woman from the west could support states that suppress their gender.

no we are supporting a state which is a victim of constant terrorism from a state, which claims to be a democracy yet which is the most prolific breacher of international law. a state which gets away with it's prolific commiting of terrorism because of it's religion and because it plays the victim, using the holocaust and the calling of those who criticise it anti-semites. i feel sorry for the innocent people caught up in it on both sides.
and lets not pretend that there aren't those who are happy to see muslims destroyed and killed either.

A Little Pony wrote: »

It's been called for years and years to boycott Israel. Hasn't made any difference. Israel is too powerful.

it's not as powerful as you would think. also, more and more people are waking up to israel's actions, so support is slowly but surely lessening. as odhinn says, there is more to the world then america.

Crea

Nabber wrote: »

Israel is more closely aligned with Western values. They offer women the same freedom as men. They are a unique piece of land within the Middle East.

They don’t persecute homo sexual or transgender...

Yet here we are feeling sorry for the Arab states that want Jews and gays dead. I never understood how a woman from the west could support states that suppress their gender.


Trump seems to get a lot of stick for doing what he said he’d do..

You really haven't a clue how they treat Palestinian people do you?

Crea

For those interested in a boycott:

Supermarket products

Check the origin of fruit, vegetables and herbs.

Hardware and homeware products

Most Stanley/Black&Decker Toolboxes and plastic organisers are made in Israel. Plastic saw horses are also often available.

Keter exports a wide range of large plastic products from Israel. These include shelf storage bins, garden sheds, outdoor storage boxes, dog kennels and composting bins.

These plastics can be found in Woodies, Chadwicks, Heitons, Davies and Cork builders providers (all part of the Grafton Group), Homebase, (part of the Home Retail Group), Argos, B&Q and many other hardware, builders’ providers and tool shops.

Sodastream, appliance for home-making carbonated drinks is a product that was previously manufactured in the illegal Israeli settlement of Ma’ale Adumim in occupied Palestine. It now operates from the Naqab (Negev) area of Israel. These products can be found in Dunnes Stores, Harvey Norman, Argos, Cleary’s, Brown Thomas, DID Electrical and others.

Lees Carpets are made by the Israeli company Carmel Carpets in the illegal industrial settlement zone of Barkan in the West Bank.

Beauty Products and clothing

Dead Sea beauty products come in many brands including, Ahava, Dead Sea Magik, GADI21, -417, VivO, Nevo and Sea Spa Skincare. YesTo, formerly an Israel-based company which has since ‘relocated’ to the US, uses Dead Sea minerals in many of its products. They can be found in Holland & Barrett, Nourish and pharmacies. In addition they are often marketed by Israelis at large shopping centres including; Dundrum, Jervis Street, Liffey Valley and others.

Any theft by the Israeli state or companies of natural resources from the Palestinian section of the Dead Sea constitutes War Pillage under the terms of the Geneva Convention. Ahava is one company that is guilty of this, being based in the illegal settlement of Mitzpe Shalem on the Dead Sea.

Despite the misleading name, Moroccan Oil is an Israeli company that manufactures argan oil-based hair care products, which can be found in Peter Marks and other hair salons.

Ronen Chen is an Israeli women’s fashion label that can often be found in boutique fashion outlets.

Childrens’ Toys

The Israeli brand AMAV is distributed in Europe by George Prentice Associates (GPA), Kildare. They market a range of “activities” type craft boxes (plastic!) and Art Easels for children These are available at major toy retailers, Hamley’s, Smiths and Art & Hobby.

IT and Music Tools

The ‘DIY-website’ company Wix is headquartered in Israel. The audio plugin development company Waves is a joint US-Israeli venture.

HP Hewlett-Packard, although not an Israeli company, is boycottable due to the company’s deep role in helping entrench the occupation of Palestine and associated human rights abuses.



Vehicles and machinery

Although neither are Israeli companies, both Caterpillar and South Korean Hyundai supply the machinery used by Israel when it demolishes Palestinian homes, structures and farmlands in the Gaza, West Bank, Jerusalem and the Naqab (Negev) desert. In addition to machinery, Caterpillar also markets shoes, bags, tools and other consumer products under its brand name.

(Source: Irish Palestinian Solidarity)

Zebra3

All empires eventually collapse. In Israel’s case, it’ll be from within. The growing demographic of religious jews who don’t work and just leach off the state is unaffordable in the long-term as is the the growing lifestyle gap between religious and non-religious jews. ( I know, non-religious religious people....).

Mr.Micro

Zebra3 wrote: »

All empires eventually collapse. In Israel’s case, it’ll be from within. The growing demographic of religious jews who don’t work and just leach off the state is unaffordable in the long-term as is the the growing lifestyle gap between religious and non-religious jews. ( I know, non-religious religious people....).

Israel is a war machine. It's economy does not really matter, in that it will always be supported from abroad. In reality if it had to depend on its economy alone, it would have collapsed years ago. It's almost like an artificial entity.

Mr.Micro

Mr.Micro wrote: »

Israel is a war machine. It's economy does not really matter, in that it will always be supported from abroad. In reality if it had to depend on its economy alone, it would have collapsed years ago. It's almost like an artificial entity.

Seems to be one of the foremost countries in the areas of science and technology.

I guess one could say that between multinationals and rather large loans, we are completely supported from abroad.

riclad

no governments have supported naming jerusalem as a capital,
until last week,
All governments have taken that a some point jerusalem would be
ruled jointly both by isreali and arabs as part of a peace treaty.
theres no way the us government can hold peace talks or act as a honest broker when its supporting one side israel over palestine.
In jerusalem theres arabs and jews and christians living in different parts of the city.
Its always been proposed that in future peace talks there would be part
of the city jews and arabs,
This move by trump makes a future peace treaty almost impossible .
And will likely lead to more terrorist attacks against us citizens.
its a insult to all arab people who live in isreal.

Odhinn

A Little Pony wrote: »

It's been called for years and years to boycott Israel. Hasn't made any difference. Israel is too powerful.

As I said, it takes time.

AssetBacked wrote:

The reaction to this decision would make one think that it was a great injustice but the fact of the matter is that they are violent, fascist bullies with minimal openness to change and a particular hatred to Jews

Odd - at the start of that I thought you were referring to Likud. Just for your own information, its the Israelis that are occupying the Palestinians, not the other way around.

The US backed not only apartheid South Africa but Ian Smith era Rhodesia for a long time. There are limits to how far Israel can expand, based on its own population size, and the difficulty of obtaining land but not the people on it.

You are correct about the "peace" process. It's been a joke for years. Likewise the whole thing for "peace" - everyone wants peace, just on their terms.

A Little Pony

tayto lover wrote: »

Nabber wrote: »

Israel is more closely aligned with Western values. They offer women the same freedom as men. They are a unique piece of land within the Middle East.

Nabber wrote: »

They don’t persecute homo sexual or transgender...

Yet here we are feeling sorry for the Arab states that want Jews and gays dead. I never understood how a woman from the west could support states that suppress their gender.


Trump seems to get a lot of stick for doing what he said he’d do..

Isn't it a pity then that they couldn't extend these rights to the Palestinians?

Getting criticized doing what he actually said he would do. Trump is getting things done.

A Little Pony

Someone said Israel isn't as powerful as you think, they have nuclear weapons, a few hundred of them and have the backing of the United States and propped up by the US. The senate did a vote on recognizing 50 years since the unification of Jerusalem and it passed 90-0. That's incredible.

pitifulgod

A Little Pony wrote: »

Getting criticized doing what he actually said he would do. Trump is getting things done.

Just because he attempts to fulfill a promise, does not mean that it was a good promise. So he shouldn't suddenly be free from criticism because of it. Trump has actually gotten very little done to date.

Odhinn

A Little Pony wrote: »

Getting criticized doing what he actually said he would do. Trump is getting things done.

I could walk down the road in a pair of rubber liederhosen, throwing shite at passing cars and say much the same thing.

A Little Pony

pitifulgod wrote: »

A Little Pony wrote: »

Getting criticized doing what he actually said he would do. Trump is getting things done.

Just because he attempts to fulfill a promise, does not mean that it was a good promise. So he shouldn't suddenly be free from criticism because of it. Trump has actually gotten very little done to date.

Doesn't matter if you agree with it or not, the fact is he did something he said he would do. That is what his voters will care about.

RobertKK

Muslims upset...is it due to the Palestinians or due to their third holiest site being recognised as being in the capital of Israel?
Christians don't seem to care...

It doesn't help the peace process which seems non existent.