Manchester United Thread..The Final Chapter of 17? (MOD WARNINGS IN OP)

Delboy5

Delboy5 wrote: »

Not bad stats..

"Lucas Moura last season: 53 apps, 19 goals, 11 assists. 115 minutes per goal & assist.

His production has improved every year, despite limited game time. Moura has averaged just around 11 goals & 11 assists the last 4 years. A goal or assist every 142 minutes."

Anything on his chance creation stat?

Cantona's Collars

Valencia expected back for the Stoke game.

jayo26

Andreas Pereira had an assist last night from the right wing for Valencia...

Mitch Connor

Delboy5 wrote: »

Not bad stats..

"Lucas Moura last season: 53 apps, 19 goals, 11 assists. 115 minutes per goal & assist.

His production has improved every year, despite limited game time. Moura has averaged just around 11 goals & 11 assists the last 4 years. A goal or assist every 142 minutes."

missing the caveat that he was playing for PSG who near straight up murder most sides they play against. Sure he was part of why they did, but his goals and assists stats need to keep that in mind. For United he would be playing for a side that would struggle to score the same amount of goals and get similar results to PSG.

Giggsy11

Mitch Connor wrote: »

missing the caveat that he was playing for PSG who near straight up murder most sides they play against. Sure he was part of why they did, but his goals and assists stats need to keep that in mind. For United he would be playing for a side that would struggle to score the same amount of goals and get similar results to PSG.

PSG scored 83 goals in league last season, not murdering most sides. That's less than Spurs, Chelsea scored last season IIRC.

bangkok

Linked with a move for johnny evans along with city and arsenal. Should never have been sold

Giggsy11

bangkok wrote: »

Linked with a move for johnny evans along with city and arsenal. Should never have been sold

He isn't better than Smalling, Jones, Bailly. We sold him cheap though, at least should have added some clauses.

Also he was very injury prone when he was at United.

TheDoc

bangkok wrote: »

No more so than mata or ozil who is linked with us. Mahrez would thrive in a better team imo

Mata was a consistently high performer, arguably the best AMC/10 in the league, that just fell out of contention with Jose due to a system.

Ozil has also been consistently high quality in terms of his returns for Arsenal bar a spell last season based on contract and just general Arsenal laze. Ozil for his time in England gets way too much critique. Like Lukaku, too much focus on what he cannot do as opposed to what he can do.

Neither are like Mahrez, who for me is an inferior player and has not shown anywhere near the longevity of quality or evidence of being able to perform at a high level consistently.

TheDoc

bangkok wrote: »

Neither is james ward prowse but you wouldnt spend 25m on him...

wut

Liam McPoyle

jayo26 wrote: »

Andreas Pereira had an assist last night from the right wing for Valencia...

If only Valencia could get assists from the right wing for us.

StringerBell

bangkok wrote: »

Linked with a move for johnny evans along with city and arsenal. Should never have been sold

Honestly, why? Without using hyperbole please

TheDoc

adox wrote: »

Someone compared him to Nani earlier but I don’t see it at all myself from what I remember of Lucas. He had more in common with Valencia than Nani and remember thinking I didn’t know what all the fuss was about when he wa been heavily linked with Utd and others for mad money.

Comparison with Nani is more so in terms of performance and how we would likely react, watching him,in terms of consistency. One game he can literally win a game by himself, another he's spraying crosses into row Z. Just an inconsistent player. Actually not sure who I'd compare him with player wise. At the time we were linked he was looking hot ****, probably was a bit like Hazard at that stage and age. Hasn't gone on to develop into anything like him though.

I'd be more excited by his signing then Perisic though, Moura has a lot more in his locker, I doubt Jose will actually help coach him into a much better player, but while I don't think he will sort any longterm problems, he would present a very specialist, unique option on that flank compared to Mata, Mhiki and Lingard.

As one of the lads in my whatsapp said this morning and probably can't be strongly argued with, could turn out to be a Brazilian Walcott, which obviously isn't an exciting prospect. But I guess getting someone in to strengthen the squad, why not. Defo don't look at him as a final piece of any puzzle.

TheDoc

GSPfan wrote: »

Riyad Mahrez didn’t just have “one good season”. He had a Player of the Year award winning season the likes rarely seen. You are all either downplaying it purposely or just not realising how good he was.
Last season he was not as bad as people think as the entire team underperformed.

I think that is generally the main point in the Mahrez conundrum, he had one good season. All those players hit a peak they never hit before, and likely never will again after.

Coupled with just how absolutely rubbish the traditional top 4 were that season. It's difficult to actually disseminate who was a quality player who would really stride on and who was just part of that anomaly. Bar Kante of course.

Vardy still looks good and doing it, but so many of them fell of a cliff in terms of quality and performance, and Mahrez was one of them. A little flurry of performances in recent memory feels a bit like "recency bias" .

If Mahrez did anything remotely last season like the one previous, these doubts and questions would be cast over him and he would be hot property. But he really isnt. His links have been pretty meh when you look at it, Roma and the likes.

TheDoc

v3ttel wrote: »

I'd like to see Mourinho go the 4-3-3 route more often which gets the best out of our best outfield player.

It means sacrificing one of the 3 in the 4-2-3-1 we play so often, but those positions have are our main weakness. We're constantly chopping & changing those 3 (Mhiki, Mata, Lingard, Rashford, Martial, Ibra) and I'd say that lack of consistency of selection is hampering all of them as much as anything.

An upgrade on Herrera with a quality box to box midfielder and an outstanding right winger and we're well equipped to play both. Hopefully we can address both of those area's either now or in the Summer.

Also, I see zero point in gambling on Lucas at this stage. Mata, Mkhitaryan, Lingard have all shown that they are capable, but not consistent. Maybe Lingard can make the step up now. Either way, I'd rather not replace one of them with another punt and be stuck in the same situation in 12 months time.

Agree with this.

And a player in the profile of Moura fits that 4-3-3 better then Mhiki and Mata.

Will be interesting to watch our business this window and especially next summer, to actually see is there any discernible pattern to what we are doing, or are we just buying players for the sake of it.

I've raised the question does this manager actually have a notion what he wants to do, or a vision for how this team is to be built. That probably starts from a basis of a formation you buy for, or a player you have you want to build around.

All avenues lead to Pogba and a midfield 3. Really only leaves you a 4-3-3 or a 3-5-2. Either or, requires a new midfielder imo, and a really good one.

Just actually want KRoos so bad, hopefully they win the CL again and he wants a new challenge

TheDoc

GSPfan wrote: »

Hands up who wants another number 10? From Dortmund?

No offence to anyone who likes the idea of a number 10 being brought in but id rather play a 433. Get Pogba in a midfield 3 and play a front 3 mix of Lukaku Rashford Martial and Lingard. Get me a midfielder to play the Pogba role on the other side of the midfield 3 and id be much happier.

The 4231 formation Jose always reverts to just doesn’t seem to compliment what we have.

Old Trafford is now a graveyard for number 10's. I actually don't understand why any footballer who cares about their career doesn't have serious reservations about it. No player has ever established themselves or worked at 10, for as long as I can remember. And post Fergie it seemed to just get more in focus how it doesn't work. Not actually sure why.

I'd imagine it must be a conundrum for a manager or board, you can sign this clearly quality player, but you might have reservations about how he fits in, but can you afford to pass it up?

To me it seems like more often then not the player gets signed and its nearly an afterthought how they fit in or how they will play or what to do with them, when surely managers and clubs should be clear enough on their vision and what the team needs to say no to a quality player if its not going to fit into whats required.

Ozil is a key example of this. Love Ozil, I think he's better then Mata and an upgrade. But whilst Mata is playing well and always does well, there is always a lingering feeling that he needs changing or doesn't fit best into what we should play. So what is Ozil going to achieve, if not experience the same problems, issues and concerns.

TheDoc

Lucas Moura Comparison

Nothing mega standing out from this, taken from last season domestic leagues. Interested to know what his crossing stats are, if that feeds into some thinking, the lad whipping balls into Lukaku with quality.

Raised an eyebrow looking at Mahrez stuff if I'm honest

Trigger

StringerBell wrote: »

Honestly, why? Without using hyperbole please

He’s is the bestest best ever, greatest CB of the modern era and he has everything to be a Man united player, unlike that Fellaini fella!

StringerBell

astradave wrote: »

He’s is the bestest best ever, greatest CB of the modern era and he has everything to be a Man united player, unlike that Fellaini fella!

Good to see you are avoiding the hyperbole also

I asked him only because, I like Evans, I think he is a good defender and would have made a fine squad player for his entire career at United if he was happy with that but he obviously wasn't.

I don't see him as being a great loss so it would puzzle me to hear anybody with the opinion that he should never have been sold. Why like? He was never going to be first choice mainstay of the defence or anything and he wanted to be playing first choice regularly, best of luck to him and credit to him for that.

You can't force him to stay and sit on the bench/be a rotational player if he doesn't want to.

bangkok

StringerBell wrote: »

Honestly, why? Without using hyperbole please

Excellent passer of the ball, strong, good in the air, much better than rojo and is also left footed. Calm on the ball, good reader of the game

Delboy5

Nice touch from the club lol...



@AndyMitten

MUFC sending emails to Spain-bound fans saying Sevilla refusing to drop £89 price - the most expensive in MUFC history. MU will increase price for Sevilla fans to £89 and use £35 difference to subsidise MU fans. Sevilla fans, embarrassed at their club's prices, will now be stung.

Cantona's Collars

bangkok wrote: »

Excellent passer of the ball, strong, good in the air, much better than rojo and is also left footed. Calm on the ball, good reader of the game

While Evans is a decent CB, he's not top drawer. One of my pet hates was that he constantly misjudged simple long balls. Time after time you'd see attackers running in behind him in the knowledge that he'd most likely let the ball over his head and stand there with his hands in the air.
The one thing I noticed about Rojo in his first game was a ball went over him,he didn't do an Evans and stand there,he chased back like a demon and won the ball back.
Evans would be ok at City as they tend to own the ball against teams and their defence doesn't come under much pressure.

Mitch Connor

bangkok wrote: »

Excellent passer of the ball, strong, good in the air, much better than rojo and is also left footed. Calm on the ball, good reader of the game

He wasn't showing that for United though.

He had a chance when Rio and Vidic moved on to make the spot his own and people expected him to do it.

His composure went to sh1t.
His passing went to sh1t.
He showed no leadership of the defence either.

He had a chance, and he failed to step up as the number one defender, lost his place in the first team (rightly so) and was then sold cause he wanted to be a starting player.

He has pushed on and got back to the level people expected of him at West Brom, and full credit to him for doing so, but saying he shouldn't have been sold because of that is hindsight.

Personally I think I was against his sale at the time, because I thought he could be a good squad player, but if he wanted to be more than that he hadn't earned it when given the chance.

Loafing Oaf

TheDoc wrote: »

Old Trafford is now a graveyard for number 10's. I actually don't understand why any footballer who cares about their career doesn't have serious reservations about it. No player has ever established themselves or worked at 10, for as long as I can remember.

Rooney behind Van Nistlerooy no?

pjohnson

bangkok wrote: »

Excellent passer of the ball, strong, good in the air, much better than rojo and is also left footed. Calm on the ball, good reader of the game

Evans is right footed.......

Mitch Connor

Delboy5 wrote: »

Nice touch from the club lol...



@AndyMitten

MUFC sending emails to Spain-bound fans saying Sevilla refusing to drop £89 price - the most expensive in MUFC history. MU will increase price for Sevilla fans to £89 and use £35 difference to subsidise MU fans. Sevilla fans, embarrassed at their club's prices, will now be stung.

I think the club (and clubs in general) should do this all the time. United and other big clubs are screwed for away fan prices all the time.

If Seville want to charge a fortune cause United are a big side, then screw it - your fans are going to be charged the same. If you want your fans to pay a reasonable fee, then charge United fans a reasonable fee.

I consistently say that all away tickets should be one standard price. Maybe that price can vary club by club, but the price charged by each club should be the same regardless of who they are playing.

Cantona's Collars

Delboy5 wrote: »

Nice touch from the club lol...



@AndyMitten

MUFC sending emails to Spain-bound fans saying Sevilla refusing to drop £89 price - the most expensive in MUFC history. MU will increase price for Sevilla fans to £89 and use £35 difference to subsidise MU fans. Sevilla fans, embarrassed at their club's prices, will now be stung.

Good. I posted about this last week. The club refused to subsidise tickets as it would set a precedent and they feared they'd constantly be seen as a soft touch regarding ticket pricing. They tried to negotiate with Sevilla but got nowhere.

Giggsy11

bangkok wrote: »

Excellent passer of the ball, strong, good in the air, much better than rojo and is also left footed. Calm on the ball, good reader of the game

Evans isn't left footed, he has good weaker foot but he is fight footed player.

BKtje

Cantona's Collars wrote: »

Valencia expected back for the Stoke game.

Guess Shaw will be back to the wilderness then since Mourinho only seems to play one bombing full back.

bangkok

pjohnson wrote: »

Evans is right footed.......

Can use both feet equally. I was comparing him with rojo

Trigger

bangkok wrote: »

Can use both feet equally. I was comparing him with rojo

He’s right footed, stop trying to move the goalposts.

jayo26

Litterally loling at Bangkok..



He will go all quiet now for an hour and pop up again with an entirely different statement about a totally different subject.

Mitch Connor

jayo26

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Double pivot

Trigger

jayo26 wrote: »

Double pivot

All we need now is some vertical passes!

pjohnson

astradave wrote: »

All we need now is some vertical passes!

Get Matty Willock in against Stoke, problem solved

TheDoc

Mitch Connor wrote: »

He wasn't showing that for United though.

He had a chance when Rio and Vidic moved on to make the spot his own and people expected him to do it.

His composure went to sh1t.
His passing went to sh1t.
He showed no leadership of the defence either.

He had a chance, and he failed to step up as the number one defender, lost his place in the first team (rightly so) and was then sold cause he wanted to be a starting player.

He has pushed on and got back to the level people expected of him at West Brom, and full credit to him for doing so, but saying he shouldn't have been sold because of that is hindsight.

Personally I think I was against his sale at the time, because I thought he could be a good squad player, but if he wanted to be more than that he hadn't earned it when given the chance.

I never understood this retrospective look at Evans sale as a bad move by people.

He had one decent season I can recall, was typically pretty average to brutal at times, and was subject to massive brainfarts. He wasn't good enough for a club our size.

The subsequent critique at his sale form former players and the likes was just more barbs being used to sting Van Gaal.

As you say, fair play for going to West Brom, where he found his level and that his reputation has enhanced again to be linked with big clubs is similar to Van Dijk, there is a total void of decent - good centre halves operating in the premier league not already at a top club.

I see no reason we should be even looking at him if I'm honest.

bangkok

Like the school yard play ground in here, 3 or 4 lads jump on you, post a few pictures or gifs and the usual thanks after them.

TheDoc

Loafing Oaf wrote: »

Rooney behind Van Nistlerooy no?

Rooney was always a striker for me, and I never really subscribe to theories Ferguson played a 10 in his 4-4-2. It was always two strikers for me.

The only time he moved away from it was with Kagawa, which didn't work.

I know he did appreciate and look for a player to be more of a "linkup" in that 2, Cantona, Berbatov, Sheringham etc., but it was still always two strikers, one who just was a bit more gifted with vision then the other.

Trigger

bangkok wrote: »

Like the school yard play ground in here, 3 or 4 lads jump on you, post a few pictures or gifs and the usual thanks after them.

If someone tries to move the goalposts they should be called on it.. do you not agree with that?

jayo26

bangkok wrote: »

Like the school yard play ground in here, 3 or 4 lads jump on you, post a few pictures or gifs and the usual thanks after them.

It was six lads actually.

Mitch Connor

bangkok wrote: »

Like the school yard play ground in here, 3 or 4 lads jump on you, post a few pictures or gifs and the usual thanks after them.

You have a reputation for constantly shifting arguments - and it has become a source of amusement.

Case in point:

"Evans is left footed"
Counter - Evans is right footed.
"I was talking about his ability to use his left foot".

The solution to correct this is: Stick to the argument rather than try to pivot to different topics and different stances completely from where you started without admiting to any error.

What you could have said:

"Oh, he played left side, and left back, so much, and was so comfortable on his left that I thought he was left footed - I still think he'd be a better option on the left side than Rojo".

bangkok

astradave wrote: »

If someone tries to move the goalposts they should be called on it.. do you not agree with that?

I was comparing him with rojo, he has a better left foot than rojo.

jayo26

bangkok wrote: »

I was comparing him with rojo, he has a better left foot than rojo.

You didn't say that you said he was better then rojo and is also left footed? Do you not see where people would have problems reading your mind?????

Trigger

bangkok wrote: »

I was comparing him with rojo, he has a better left foot than rojo.

He does in his Shïte have a better left foot than a naturally left footed Rojo..

bangkok

Mitch Connor wrote: »

You have a reputation for constantly shifting arguments - and it has become a source of amusement.

Case in point:

"Evans is left footed"
Counter - Evans is right footed.
"I was talking about his ability to use his left foot".

The solution to correct this is: Stick to the argument rather than try to pivot to different topics and different stances completely from where you started without admiting to any error.

What you could have said:

"Oh, he played left side, and left back, so much, and was so comfortable on his left that I thought he was left footed - I still think he'd be a better option on the left side than Rojo".

What about my argument earlier in the season, saying how good city were? Same few lads jump on you, call you a city supporter etc city are now 15 clear and everyone wondering where it all went wrong

deaddonkey15

bangkok wrote: »

Like the school yard play ground in here, 3 or 4 lads jump on you, post a few pictures or gifs and the usual thanks after them.

It's often the standard of discourse in here.

Trigger

bangkok wrote: »

What about my argument earlier in the season, saying how good city were? Same few lads jump on you, call you a city supporter etc city are now 15 clear and everyone wondering where it all went wrong

That’s an opinion though, they vary..

Facts don’t! Do you not see that.. you stated Evan’s was Left footed, people say he is right footed.. you refuse to acknowledge your mistake and move the goalposts to a totally different arguement..

Johnny Evans is right footed, no matter what way you try to spin it, he is still going to be right footed unless he loses the ability to use that leg!

bangkok

astradave wrote: »

That’s an opinion though, they vary..

Facts don’t! Do you not see that.. you stated Evan’s was Left footed, people say he is right footed.. you refuse to acknowledge your mistake and move the goalposts to a totally different arguement..

Johnny Evans is right footed, no matter what way you try to spin it, he is still going to be right footed unless he loses the ability to use that leg!

Yes he is right footed, can also use his left foot. Very well at that

Trigger

bangkok wrote: »

Yes he is right footed, can also use his left foot. Very well at that

Was that hard? it’s like extracting blood from a stone

StringerBell

bangkok wrote: »

Excellent passer of the ball, strong, good in the air, much better than rojo and is also left footed. Calm on the ball, good reader of the game

He isn't left footed, as I see has been made clear at this point.

He was given his chance to stake a claim in the first team and he blew it completely, his passing went to ****, he became very jumpy rather than calm I would have said and he was getting caught for position a lot which put him under extra pressure.

He was not missed when he was sold one bit, like I said if he had been happy to be a squad player I'd have kept him but he wasn't so you have to sell in that scenario.

He is playing well at West Brom, but this is the thing with a lot of players over the years, they play well for the weaker teams, the ones who focus so much on defending or playing a certain way and they simply cannot translate that up to the next level when asked to do more.

I just can't agree that he should never have been sold, as to the schoolyard thing. I apologise if I upset you thanking Mitch's pivot post but that was funny in fairness, you do need to have a sense of humour about these things on an internet message board surely?

That you pivoted from Evans to the discussion focused on City earlier in the season only adds to the poetic beauty of that obviously. There is no harm meant from anybody in this thread I would wager, sometimes people ruffle others feathers absolutely. That is the nature of football discussion, hell thats the nature of the internet in general!

You drive me mad at times with how you debate but I still love ya