Manchester United Thread..The Final Chapter of 17? (MOD WARNINGS IN OP)

bucketybuck

IamtheWalrus wrote: »

So 'we' know more than the club. hmm

Grow up.

PhlegmyMoses

bucketybuck wrote: »

The best part is that it went to shit despite yesterdays game changing not one single little thing. There is nothing we know today that we didn't already know two days ago.

City remain huge favourites for the league and a better side than United currently are. We knew that.

We have multiple deficiencies in the squad, we need better full backs, more quality and composure in midfield and we cannot rely on our attacking options. We knew all that. Jose doesn't trust all the players, we knew that, he will try to counter attack better teams, we knew that.

There is no way you can wake up this morning and suddenly have a problem with everything that is happening at the club, because if you do all I can wonder is where you have been all season.

The reality is that Pep got backed to the hilt in the transfer market in the summer and Jose got backed, but not as much. Genuinely fair play to the City owners, struggled last year but knew they had a title winning coach and paid whatever was needed to get what he wanted. They have shown that great coach, plus any budget you need for the players that you want will give you incredible results.

fergiesfolly

PhlegmyMoses wrote: »

The reality is that Pep got backed to the hilt in the transfer market in the summer and Jose got backed, but not as much. Genuinely fair play to the City owners, struggled last year but knew they had a title winning coach and paid whatever was needed to get what he wanted. They have shown that great coach, plus any budget you need for the players that you want will give you incredible results.

Fair play to the owners???
Bottomless pit of money to do with what you want, buy any player, hire any coach.
Keep throwing money at it till it works and when it fails, throw another couple of hundred million at it.
There's no genius, master plan at work here. If they had to work in the real world, City would've gone under four or five years ago.

City aren't a club.
They're a rich man play thing.

secman

fergiesfolly wrote: »

Fair play to the owners???
Bottomless pit of money to do with what you want, buy any player, hire any coach.
Keep throwing money at it till it works and when it fails, throw another couple of hundred million at it.
There's no genius, master plan at work here. If they had to work in the real world, City would've gone under four or five years ago.

City aren't a club.
They're a rich man play thing.

This is putting your hand out to be slapped, these facts could be about United. We have spent a fortune on managers and squad since SAF retired !

Careful lads, if one poster posts something and another posts something else it must mean the same poster said both :P
Confused at this cringe?
Member posters taking pictures of other posters historical posts and then posting them here? (Like the way that sounds)
I member :P

bucketybuck

PhlegmyMoses wrote: »

The reality is that Pep got backed to the hilt in the transfer market in the summer and Jose got backed, but not as much. Genuinely fair play to the City owners, struggled last year but knew they had a title winning coach and paid whatever was needed to get what he wanted. They have shown that great coach, plus any budget you need for the players that you want will give you incredible results.

I think the real reality is that Pep was given a far better team to work with in the first place. Silva, De Bruyne, Aguero, Fernandino etc. Then he spent a lot of money to phase out the good but not great players like Hart, Fernando, Nasri etc and replace them with quality like Jesus.

Mourinho started with Rooney, Carrick, Felliani, Valencia and kids like Martial and Rashford. He's still trying to get the quality in, never mind get to clearing out the good but not great players.

Adamocovic

Never understand why after every game that doesn't go our way the immediate response of many is that our CBs aren't good enough and we will never win anything big with them because they simply aren't good enough.

Nonsense in my eyes. We have conceded the joint lowest this season (with City, 11 goals), and most clean sheets in the league. I know many will put all this on De Gea, considering the amount of saves he's had to make, but to me the reason he's forced into making so many saves is more to do with our ball possession. Our average is 50.8%, just below Southampton and just above Watford.

Our CBs have all been capped quite regular at international level, have all been part of a title winning team and the majority have all won individual awards for teams of tournament/season.

The CBs were not the reason we lost to City. And so far this season it has been very successful. We're just unlucky in a way with how good Man City have been. I look around at other teams and to be honest, maybe this is just me, but I don't see us our bunch worse than the likes of City, Arsenal, Liverpool, or even Chelsea.

I know people want results as soon as possible and back to the glory days so the solution seems to always be just keep buying big price players to improve the team, but I think we have the players capable of making a title charge (as we're seeing) it's now up to performances and Jose to get the tactics right.

jayo26

Any other year we would have a team to challenge for the title and on average we would only be 3 points off the top but the bar is a lot higher this year it's simple.

Fergie never built a title team in one and half years it took him 3 or 4 year to rebuild in the mid 00s the club is still going in right direction under Jose I have no doubt about it.

Drumpot

secman wrote: »

This is putting your hand out to be slapped, these facts could be about United. We have spent a fortune on managers and squad since SAF retired !

Do you think united have been getting value for money? Do you think Woodward bears any responsibility for Uniteds transfer strategy on any level?

I remember Chelsea poaching Peter Kenyon to help them sign the best players. After losing two of its most valuable football assets (Gill and SAF)United promoted a marketing guru with no experience in player negotiation who couldn’t get any of his primary targets the first season and ended up paying an inflated fee for Fellaini when he was available for cheaper in the summer. Everybody conveniently blamed Moyes.

Then he signs a very popular quality player in Mata. Why? Because he was for sale and would be a popular signing. Nothing to do with what the squad needed at the time. It suited many fans to just blame Moyes but you can’t blame Moyes for everything that has happened since and it appears that the owners and Woodward haven’t been running it well. How many top players did united miss out on as Woodward was fumbling around figuring out his old? Over spending , poor signings and allowing a championship winning squad to capitulate. Just because fans can’t force the owners out doesn’t mean we can’t debate the most likely factors in the clubs decline.

I’m not saying everything is Woodward’s fault but he has a blank Cheque book and serious input into player signings. He is the one consistent piece of the puzzle since SAF retired and yet nobody wants to even question his competency. Like a upper management civil servant, he seems to be untouchable for no logical reason other then it’s popular to always blame the manager for everything.

bucketybuck

Adamocovic wrote: »

Never understand why after every game that doesn't go our way the immediate response of many is that our CBs aren't good enough and we will never win anything big with them because they simply aren't good enough.

I wouldn't swap our CB's for any other teams. Take the great Manchester city for example, give me Smalling and Jones over Mangala and Otamendi any day.

Our problem is getting two of them to play together for any extended length of time, we have no consistent partnerships developing there for various reasons. If we could get them all to stay fit and available people would see how good they all are.

gstack166

fergiesfolly wrote: »

Fair play to the owners???
Bottomless pit of money to do with what you want, buy any player, hire any coach.
Keep throwing money at it till it works and when it fails, throw another couple of hundred million at it.
There's no genius, master plan at work here. If they had to work in the real world, City would've gone under four or five years ago.

City aren't a club.
They're a rich man play thing.

What an absolute laughable, bitter post 😂 why didn’t they buy Neymar then? Why did they pull out of signing Jonny Evans on deadline day because they couldn’t shift Mangala? Why up till this summer did they not spend a penny in 5 years on full backs?

As for the comments on hiring any coach they want, the owners have appointed 3 managers in the 9 years they’ve been at the club. Mancini & Pellegrini weren’t the high profile managers in the same class as Pep! They bided their time to wait for him.

I have no idea how you think if they ‘lived in the real world they’d be gone under 4 or 5 years ago’ 4 or 5 years ago they were runnin at a loss, now they have the 5th highest income in World Football.

In relation to your absurd ‘City aren’t a club’ quote. I urge you travel here to East Manchester & see the work that club have done for the people of this area, in terms of jobs, opportunity’s & the general look of the place. Funny seeing all ex Manchester United players (Andy Cole, Phil Neville, Robin Van Persie to name just a few) sending their kids to an Academy that ‘isn’t a real club’

Just hold your hands up & acknowledge that for the time being & the immediate future, there’s a dynasty being built in manchester & they’re playing in blue. You’ll feel better.

Adamocovic

bucketybuck wrote: »

I wouldn't swap our CB's for any other teams. Take the great Manchester city for example, give me Smalling and Jones over Mangala and Otamendi any day.

Our problem is getting two of them to play together for any extended length of time, we have no consistent partnerships developing there for various reasons. If we could get them all to stay fit and available people would see how good they all are.

True. Jones and Bailly for me were great together earlier in season

Jones is back now but Bailly not until January. It's unfortunate but do believe Jose is looking to create more than one partnership in the event of injuries. Saw it early on when he rotated between Bailly and Jones for league and Smalling Lindelof for Europe.

Anyway thank god we have a match tomorrow. Hopefully go on to win and put this behind us a little.

Also I'm going to call it now and City lose to Swansea. A shock result and just brilliant hilarious after the derby reactions. May stick a pound or two on it.

Robson99

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-5166489/How-Pep-Guardiola-outsmarted-Mourinho-Citys-2-1-win.html

Intresting article especially the last piece with Utds ludicrously defensive outlook. His seven philosophies for playing against the big teams really highlight his negativity

Drumpot

Adamocovic wrote: »

Never understand why after every game that doesn't go our way the immediate response of many is that our CBs aren't good enough and we will never win anything big with them because they simply aren't good enough.

Nonsense in my eyes. We have conceded the joint lowest this season (with City, 11 goals), and most clean sheets in the league. I know many will put all this on De Gea, considering the amount of saves he's had to make, but to me the reason he's forced into making so many saves is more to do with our ball possession. Our average is 50.8%, just below Southampton and just above Watford.

Our CBs have all been capped quite regular at international level, have all been part of a title winning team and the majority have all won individual awards for teams of tournament/season.

The CBs were not the reason we lost to City. And so far this season it has been very successful. We're just unlucky in a way with how good Man City have been. I look around at other teams and to be honest, maybe this is just me, but I don't see us our bunch worse than the likes of City, Arsenal, Liverpool, or even Chelsea.

I know people want results as soon as possible and back to the glory days so the solution seems to always be just keep buying big price players to improve the team, but I think we have the players capable of making a title charge (as we're seeing) it's now up to performances and Jose to get the tactics right.

The defensive record is as much down to tactics and DDG as it is anything else. United are pragmatic and defensively setup against better opposition and just own poorer teams.

Neither the individual talent or partnerships in defense are anywhere near good enough for the tactics we are employing. On another day Arsenal and city would be making a mockery of our goal difference.

But that said, Rojo, smalling and Jones each have weakness’s and no strong partnerships that you could identify. Ferdinand and Vidic , Bruce and Pallister , who do united have? What expectation or quality of defenders are you benchmarking?

In the big games you find out the real weaknesses in a squad. Sometimes it’s character or belief and sometimes it’s other deficiencies. I don’t think the defenders are the only problem but I think it’s an obvious area that could be improved on, particularly to complement Jose’s tactics. Do you think the old Chelsea under Jose would of conceded those two goals against city? Not a chance and they would be ruthlessly efficient at closing up games.

Overall , I do think the club is moving in the right direction but I think statistics can paint a false impression. Just like Uniteds goalscoring early on in the season was thumping teams mostly in the last 10 mins of games where poor teams just rolled over. The table shows the second best team in the league with the second best goalscoring. Would you confidently bet on united outscoring liverpoool or Chelsea most weeks? Even a spurs on form would be a stretch.

It’s not about being gloomy, it’s about being objective. I think united could win the champions league , particularly as we will see two of Madrid/psg/Chelsea and Barca go out! Jose is a master of two legs and compensates for much of the teams deficiencies.

IamtheWalrus

bucketybuck wrote: »

Grow up.

There is no need on my behalf. You indicated that the situation that the club is in is of no surprise because 'we' have watched the going-on for 5 years. This is incorrect and I pointed it out.

bucketybuck

IamtheWalrus wrote: »

There is no need on my behalf. You indicated that the situation that the club is in is of no surprise because 'we' have watched the going-on for 5 years. This is incorrect and I pointed it out.

We haven't been watching the club for the last five years? Speak for yourself.

IamtheWalrus

bucketybuck wrote: »

We haven't been watching the club for the last five years? Speak for yourself.

I stated surprise that the club is still in this position after the amount of money it has spent. You countered by saying it's of no surprise to you as you've watched the club for 5 years. I countered that I don't think you know why the club has stagnated because I suspect the club's hierarchy don't.

bucketybuck

IamtheWalrus wrote: »

I countered that I don't think you know why the club has stagnated because I suspect the club's hierarchy don't.

Actually, what you said was:

IamtheWalrus wrote: »

So 'we' know more than the club. hmm

bangkok

Drumpot wrote: »

Do you think united have been getting value for money? Do you think Woodward bears any responsibility for Uniteds transfer strategy on any level?

I remember Chelsea poaching Peter Kenyon to help them sign the best players. After losing two of its most valuable football assets (Gill and SAF)United promoted a marketing guru with no experience in player negotiation who couldn’t get any of his primary targets the first season and ended up paying an inflated fee for Fellaini when he was available for cheaper in the summer. Everybody conveniently blamed Moyes.

Then he signs a very popular quality player in Mata. Why? Because he was for sale and would be a popular signing. Nothing to do with what the squad needed at the time. It suited many fans to just blame Moyes but you can’t blame Moyes for everything that has happened since and it appears that the owners and Woodward haven’t been running it well. How many top players did united miss out on as Woodward was fumbling around figuring out his old? Over spending , poor signings and allowing a championship winning squad to capitulate. Just because fans can’t force the owners out doesn’t mean we can’t debate the most likely factors in the clubs decline.

I’m not saying everything is Woodward’s fault but he has a blank Cheque book and serious input into player signings. He is the one consistent piece of the puzzle since SAF retired and yet nobody wants to even question his competency. Like a upper management civil servant, he seems to be untouchable for no logical reason other then it’s popular to always blame the manager for everything.

Lol back to blaming woodward again are we..

Adamocovic

Drumpot wrote: »

The defensive record is as much down to tactics and DDG as it is anything else. United are pragmatic and defensively setup against better opposition and just own poorer teams.

Neither the individual talent or partnerships in defense are anywhere near good enough for the tactics we are employing. On another day Arsenal and city would be making a mockery of our goal difference.

But that said, Rojo, smalling and Jones each have weakness’s and no strong partnerships that you could identify. Ferdinand and Vidic , Bruce and Pallister , who do united have? What expectation or quality of defenders are you benchmarking?

I had my reply written but then browser crashed so apologies for spelling mistakes and rushing through it this time!

I agree the record is down to the combination of the tactics, DDG and the players. But you can't really have a good defensive record despite tactics and keeper if you don't have good players.

And the benchmark I'm using is the CBs of our main rivals:
Arsenal: Mertesacker, Koscielny, Kolasinic
Chelsea: Luiz, Cahill, Rudiger, Christiansen
Liverpool: Lovren, Matip, Klavan, Gomez
Man City: Kompany, Mangala, Stones, Otamendi
Man Utd: Bailly, Jones, Smalling, Rojo, Lindelof
Spurs: Alderweireld, Vertonghen, Dier, Sanchez

It's subjective but for me from that list no team has a partnership like Rio/Vidic, Terry/Carvahlo, Adams/Keown. And we are not being left behind for quality in that position.

And for strong partnership, for me I thought Bailly and Jones showed they have one, Smalling and Jones previously and Bailly and Rojo last season. Also it appears a partnership with Lindelof and Smalling is slowly being created.

In the big games you find out the real weaknesses in a squad. Sometimes it’s character or belief and sometimes it’s other deficiencies. I don’t think the defenders are the only problem but I think it’s an obvious area that could be improved on, particularly to complement Jose’s tactics. Do you think the old Chelsea under Jose would of conceded those two goals against city? Not a chance and they would be ruthlessly efficient at closing up games.

The two goals were conceded from mistakes made by Lukaku during set pieces. You can't be suggesting that they were caused by us having below par CBs?

Overall , I do think the club is moving in the right direction but I think statistics can paint a false impression. Just like Uniteds goalscoring early on in the season was thumping teams mostly in the last 10 mins of games where poor teams just rolled over. The table shows the second best team in the league with the second best goalscoring. Would you confidently bet on united outscoring liverpoool or Chelsea most weeks? Even a spurs on form would be a stretch.

I don't really see how the statistics are painting false impressions. You take everything into account. For the defending we have conceded more in our second 8 games than first 8, probably due to the fact that we have missed Bailly and Jones who were our regular starters for a couple of games and also we played Spurs, Arsenal, Chelsea and City. However we still have yet to concede more than 2 goals this season which to me shows consistency.

On the goal-scoring stat we got off to a rocking start alright, in our first 8 games we scored 21, and second 8 we scored 15. Again second 8 had Spurs, City, Arsenal and Chelsea so a dip in the overall is understandable. Also in our first 16 games we have only failed to score in 2, and have scored 2+ goals in 9. We do however need Lukaku to find some form again if we are to keep our goal scoring record high.

It’s not about being gloomy, it’s about being objective. I think united could win the champions league , particularly as we will see two of Madrid/psg/Chelsea and Barca go out! Jose is a master of two legs and compensates for much of the teams deficiencies.

For me it is all about objectivity. I think using the CBs as an excuse every time we don't play well, and some sort of reason why Mourinho can't win the league with us is an absolute cop-out

We do have the quality players on our team required, CBs included. It's now down to preparation, tactics and player performance.

Adamocovic

Just got a notification off ESPN saying we were "tracking" Nadiem Amiri, also said Spurs and Arsenal were too.

Brace yourselves, the transfer sagas have already begun!

yabadabado

The worst thing about the January transfer window is we will be linked to dozens of players but will probably buy none.At least in the summer there is movement.

Be great if a player or two was bought in the upcoming window.

StringerBell

We were one top quality player (winger/attacker) when the summer window closed, we still are.

Pogba being out for all our big games has really been a pain in the hole, and that City one being (unluckily) self inflicted only adds to the pain.

Team is having a great season so far overall, City at the minute are setting a very high bar and sometimes you just have to give credit where it is due. They will drop points along the way, probably not enough to let anybody back in the title race barring a serious collapse but they are far from infallible. I was actually delighted to hear of their celebrations after the game, confetti and the likes, hopefully they do think the hard work is done now and they have it in the bag. That's one way they can **** it up.

gstack166

StringerBell wrote: »

We were one top quality player (winger/attacker) when the summer window closed, we still are.

Pogba being out for all our big games has really been a pain in the hole, and that City one being (unluckily) self inflicted only adds to the pain.

Team is having a great season so far overall, City at the minute are setting a very high bar and sometimes you just have to give credit where it is due. They will drop points along the way, probably not enough to let anybody back in the title race barring a serious collapse but they are far from infallible. I was actually delighted to hear of their celebrations after the game, confetti and the likes, hopefully they do think the hard work is done now and they have it in the bag. That's one way they can **** it up.

Bringing confetti into the house & spraying it all over the bedroom. They knew they were going to win. Next level trolling!!

jayo26

StringerBell wrote: »

We were one top quality player (winger/attacker) when the summer window closed, we still are.

Pogba being out for all our big games has really been a pain in the hole, and that City one being (unluckily) self inflicted only adds to the pain.

Team is having a great season so far overall, City at the minute are setting a very high bar and sometimes you just have to give credit where it is due. They will drop points along the way, probably not enough to let anybody back in the title race barring a serious collapse but they are far from infallible. I was actually delighted to hear of their celebrations after the game, confetti and the likes, hopefully they do think the hard work is done now and they have it in the bag. That's one way they can **** it up.

Exactly if you had of said at start of season we we have such 35 points after 16 games nearly everyone would say yes that would be a very good number we will be at least hot on the heels of first place no one would believe we are 11 points behind.

jayo26

I'll even put it this way the ...

Last year's champions are 14 points behind the leaders after signing 5 international class players yet Jose is a busted flush and people throw the toys out of pram.

Pool are 16 points behind the leaders but have seemingly the best forward line up ever created to mankind.

Arsenal and spurs are 17 and 18 points behind d the leaders.

Yes we would love to be closer but sometimes in football it's not always because a team or manager fuked up it's because another team or manager got it right.

PhuckHugh

jayo26 wrote: »

I'll even put it this way the ...

Last year's champions are 14 points behind the leaders after signing 5 international class players yet Jose is a busted flush and people throw the toys out of pram.

Pool are 16 points behind the leaders but have seemingly the best forward line up ever created to mankind.

Arsenal and spurs are 17 and 18 points behind d the leaders.

Yes we would love to be closer but sometimes in football it's not always because a team or manager fuked up it's because another team or manager got it right.

Correct - But when you hold up Jose's spending I think he probably deserves more scrutiny - I think City and Utd have almost the same net spend over the last two years and while they've beaten the also rans well, his record against top 6 in that time is very poor and probably the cause of most frustration.

adox

We are great....
We are ****e....

Rinse and repeat.

Somewhere in the middle lies the truth.

wong

Net Spend. I'm outta here.

adox

PhuckHugh wrote: »

Correct - But when you hold up Jose's spending I think he probably deserves more scrutiny - I think City and Utd have almost the same net spend over the last two years and while they've beaten the also rans well, his record against top 6 in that time is very poor and probably the cause of most frustration.

Ah the infamous net spend!

You are totally ignoring the starting points of both managers when taking over the clubs.

PhuckHugh

wong wrote: »

Net Spend. I'm outta here.

Take out net if it upsets you so much - and just leave in spending - I'm sure their records are similar enough..

As for where they both started from, Van Gaal spent over 250m on talent before Jose came in ..

adox

PhuckHugh wrote: »

Take out net if it upsets you so much - and just leave in spending - I'm sure their records are similar enough..

As for where they both started from, Van Gaal spent over 250m on talent before Jose came in ..

Irrelevant. Van Gall made a haimes of the Utd squad. He sold and bought poorly overall.

Money spent does not equate to quality.

PhuckHugh

adox wrote: »

Irrelevant. Van Gall made a haimes of the Utd squad. He sold and bought poorly overall.

Money spent does not equate to quality.

Grand - I merely said that Jose has spent more than the chasing pack and will come under more scrutiny as a result - And his performances against the chasing pack is probably the biggest frustration - You can get bogged down in the wording of it, but that's the crux of it.

jayo26

PhuckHugh wrote: »

Correct - But when you hold up Jose's spending I think he probably deserves more scrutiny - I think City and Utd have almost the same net spend over the last two years and while they've beaten the also rans well, his record against top 6 in that time is very poor and probably the cause of most frustration.

Yes and as been pointed out before city add plyers to a team of kompany and fernandinho and aguero and kdb and silva and yaya United had to phase out most of our most experienced players.

It's like starting race and giving everyone a one lap lead.

Yes Jose should be scrutinized but he is been scrutinized on the last result each time and not on the over all picture of what he has done at the club.

What do people actually think Jose's job brief was when he took over at United seriously?

Was it to overhaul the team get rid of the aging players and get us back competing for silverware again and actually winning trophies again and give us a foundation to build on?

Or was it to completly turn around an underwhelming team and win the league within two years?????

adox

adox wrote: »

Irrelevant. Van Gall made a haimes of the Utd squad. He sold and bought poorly overall.

Money spent does not equate to quality.

I'm convinced some of these "out of the woodwork" posters know this.
Where were they when things were going well? As in early last week before the City game?

Also on another note I wouldn't be taking any of it seriously. It's been a while where a neutral or a rival was able to hold a logical discussion when it comes to Utd & Jose. The loss against City clearly showed this for anyone reading the various threads over the last day or so.
You will have posters openly admitting they haven't watched Utd this season but proclaim the usual one liners like busted flush etc..

jayo26

M!Ck^ wrote: »

I'm convinced some of these "out of the woodwork" posters know this.
Where were they when things were going well? As in early last week before the City game?

1000000%

fergiesfolly

secman wrote: »

This is putting your hand out to be slapped, these facts could be about United. We have spent a fortune on managers and squad since SAF retired !

Where has the money United spent come from?Within the club.
Where has Citys?
The deep pockets of Middle Eastern oil barons.
There is no way in hell City could finance the players they've purchased without additional cash being added to the pot.

secman

A key point in the derby game was they have a better coach than we do. He is getting much more out of his squad than Mourinho is getting from our squad.
My brother was at the game on Sunday, he said it was hard to stomach, a shell shocked stadium, no positives whatsoever to take from the game, a complete arse slap of a job done on us.

Adamocovic

The game tomorrow cannot come soon enough

Mitch Connor

M!Ck^ wrote: »

I'm convinced some of these "out of the woodwork" posters know this.
Where were they when things were going well? As in early last week before the City game?

I'd also argue Mourinho signings have been good/great.

Bailly, great signing, if sometimes still a bit naive.
Lindelof: looking a much better signing in the last couple of weeks.
Pogba: Brilliant signing.
Matic: Brilliant signing.
Miki: Would reckon him a bit of a dub to be honest, capable of greatness, generally poor.
Ibra: Was key to any sort of performance/results last season.
Lukaku: Started well, crap at the moment, hopefully improves. Not going to write him off.

In terms of a backbone of the side - I think (going forward) we can have optimism in De Gea, Baily, Lindelof, Matic, Pogba. Lukaku needs to up his game. If he can/does then that central spine of the team could be very good in the years to come.

Then... APPARENTLY:

Wanted a left back in the summer, didn't get one.
Wanted a right back in the summer, didn't get one.
Wanted a winger in the summer, didn't get one.

Key problem areas right now (imo) - left full back and no natural winger. Also, the rubbishness of our performances when Pogba is unavailable is unacceptable.

PhuckHugh

PhuckHugh wrote: »

Correct - But when you hold up Jose's spending I think he probably deserves more scrutiny - I think City and Utd have almost the same net spend over the last two years and while they've beaten the also rans well, his record against top 6 in that time is very poor and probably the cause of most frustration.

As has been pointed out already and better then i could look at the baseline squads they took over. That city squad had a couple of world class players when Pep came.

All jose signings have improved the squad although miki has taken a downturn in form. Still a bit to go.

Weirdly i think we have missed carrick this year i think he could have complimented Matic and Pogba in some games providing he has the legs left. He is the kinda midfielder (on a lower level) we are missing imo

jayo26

jayo26 wrote: »

1000000%

I can fully understand why astradave has taken a break

Robson99

secman wrote: »

A key point in the derby game was they have a better coach than we do. He is getting much more out of his squad than Mourinho is getting from our squad.
My brother was at the game on Sunday, he said it was hard to stomach, a shell shocked stadium, no positives whatsoever to take from the game, a complete arse slap of a job done on us.

When the part of the managers philosophy is to conceed posession so as not to make mistakes on the ball then we are rightly goosed

jayo26

M!Ck^ wrote: »

I can fully understand why astradave has taken a break

Don't blame him at all and people wonder where the good posters are gone.

PhuckHugh

jayo26 wrote: »

Don't blame him at all and people wonder where the good posters are gone.

Jose's net spend has driven them away.

Robson99

jayo26 wrote: »

Don't blame him at all and people wonder where the good posters are gone.

So to be critical of Jose / Utd is driving posters away ?

fergiesfolly

gstack166 wrote: »

What an absolute laughable, bitter post 😂 why didn’t they buy Neymar then? Why did they pull out of signing Jonny Evans on deadline day because they couldn’t shift Mangala? Why up till this summer did they not spend a penny in 5 years on full backs?

As for the comments on hiring any coach they want, the owners have appointed 3 managers in the 9 years they’ve been at the club. Mancini & Pellegrini weren’t the high profile managers in the same class as Pep! They bided their time to wait for him.

I have no idea how you think if they ‘lived in the real world they’d be gone under 4 or 5 years ago’ 4 or 5 years ago they were runnin at a loss, now they have the 5th highest income in World Football.

In relation to your absurd ‘City aren’t a club’ quote. I urge you travel here to East Manchester & see the work that club have done for the people of this area, in terms of jobs, opportunity’s & the general look of the place. Funny seeing all ex Manchester United players (Andy Cole, Phil Neville, Robin Van Persie to name just a few) sending their kids to an Academy that ‘isn’t a real club’

Just hold your hands up & acknowledge that for the time being & the immediate future, there’s a dynasty being built in manchester & they’re playing in blue. You’ll feel better.

I'm not bitter about it at all.
I call it as I see it.
They got the highest profile coach that money could buy as their circumstances allowed ie, they weren't going to get Pep when they were only trying to get in top four. But once the chance of winning EPL and Cl came along, they knew they had the money to get him in and they were high profile enough to attract his attention. A manager like Pep was always the ultimate target, no matter how successful the previous managers were. Pelliegrini could've won the EPL and CL three times over and they would've still gone after Pep.
There isn't the money within the club to pay for the players they've purchased. You can exclude the nonsensical deals struck with associates to syphon money into the club under the guise of sponsorship. They aren't viable without that cash.

I know a few older City fans and they really don't feel part of the club anymore.
They're a big club in their own right with a proud heritage, but what's happening at the moment isn't adding to it.

gstack166

fergiesfolly wrote: »

Where has the money United spent come from?Within the club.
Where has Citys?
The deep pockets of Middle Eastern oil barons.
There is no way in hell City could finance the players they've purchased without additional cash being added to the pot.

What are you talking about? City are debt free with the 5th highest income in World Football. United under the glazers are riddled with debt. There should no way in hell United are able pay big transfer fees while this is the situation.

jayo26

Robson99 wrote: »

So to be critical of Jose / Utd is driving posters away ?

Nope it's the posters that only appear after a bad result and when they are critical of the manager it is usually ignoring anything good or the overall picture of where the club is going.

There is no harm in not agreeing with what the manager is doing or not liking but state that and be honest but also state where or who would do better so it can be debated.

There is no harm in been unhappy with the city game but also aknowledge that we were beaten by a better team and we were missing our best player.

There is no harm in not been happy with lukaku but don't ignore he has scored a lot if goals this season and assisted too and played generally well in plenty of games.

In a nutshell it's not people been critical is the problem it's people not actually following it up and accepting that it's not all about the manager ****ing up.

For example people are saying it's Jose's negative approach to big games that's the fault but Jose has played like that all his career in charge and he has and continues to win trophies!!!!!

It's not the United way is a good point but accept that Fergie didn't always play swashbuckling football either when he knew that he couldn't do it.

My frustration with the cricisim in here is that it is all over the top and ignoring the reality that we are second place behind our derby rivals that have the highest amount of points ever at this stage if the season but it's ignored and made out that the manager is doing a crap job!!!!

Mitch Connor

gstack166 wrote: »

What are you talking about? City are debt free with the 5th highest income in World Football. United under the glazers are riddled with debt. There should no way in hell United are able pay big transfer fees while this is the situation.

United are in debt, but profitable and covering their repayments on the debt they have. United could be debt free in the summer if they REALLY wanted to be, but they just don't want to be. Repayments are comfortable for the club and I believe tax right offs due to the debt are quite valuable too.

Not going to bother arguing the rights or wrongs of City's income, as I actually don't think owners should be stopped from putting money into a club. I only see it as an issue when that money results in debts (as a result of the investment being given as a loan). If City's owners just want to give them a billion no strings attached... I can't see a legit arguement against it. Sure, it may be unfair that others can't compete, but I'm not sure I can see that as a good argument.

I am jealous of the City academy project and their commitment to youth development, I think United can learn a lot from the City approach at youth levels in the last few years (even if they haven't converted that into first team players just yet, foden on the way).