Manchester United Thread..The Final Chapter of 17? (MOD WARNINGS IN OP)

beno619

beno619 wrote: »

That's a bit disingenuous tbh.

There has been lots of valid criticism and reasons to he critical and I'm happy about that tbh.

It's time to start looking from more from our manager and players considering how low standards had dropped under the two duds.

Yes, I'm with you on this. I didn't want Jose as first choice manager either.
But as you say looking at it logically you can see the improvements made overall and can at the same time criticism him for certain aspects.
For example: I've not been happy with some of his substitutions / team selections throughout the last year and I've openly said and that's ok.

As another example, I've criticized him for not playing Youth prior to him taking over.
And here he is playing the Youth and I was wrong. That's ok too.

At least the manner of your criticism is justified. Some lads are going overboard and simply excessive / illogical.

SlickRic

City this season have changed the game.

there would still be criticism after certain games, obviously, but the strength of it would be nowhere near the same.

being a child of the 90s i have a LOT of Utd supporting mates, and they are still utterly unconvinced, and a few wouldn't be unhappy at all to see José go.

take City's juggernaut out of the equation, and I'm sorry, the same conversations aren't happening.

Jos biggest flaw is that he doesn't trust his players to impose themselves on games against the better teams, and i don't think he's evolved his style to suit the modern game where you need slightly more nuance in how you set up, and not just be relentlessly direct.

but meh. every manager has his flaws. even Pep. it's just City have everyone running scared.

Tylerdurex

SlickRic wrote: »

City this season have changed the game.

there would still be criticism after certain games, obviously, but the strength of it would be nowhere near the same.

being a child of the 90s i have a LOT of Utd supporting mates, and they are still utterly unconvinced, and a few wouldn't be unhappy at all to see Joso.

take City's juggernaut out of the equation, and I'm sorry, the same conversations aren't happening.

Jos biggest flaw is that he doesn't trust his players to impose themselves on games against the better teams, and i don't think he's evolved his style to suit the modern game where you need slightly more nuance in how you set up, and not just be relentlessly direct.

but meh. every manager has his flaws. even Pep. it's just City have everyone running scared.

He trusted certain players in the past such as deco lampard Drogba and Terry but you get the feeling he doesn't trust a lot of the players in this United team because they aren't really want he wants .He needs to be fully backed in the summer though because if anyone can find a way to beat pep he can . He has done it before. He should have gotten Perisic instead of the club penny pinching. Fully expecting 4 or 5 signings in the summer Martial Mata and Mkhitaryan could be replaced by Greizmann Ozil and fabregas . He'll be interested in Perisic and Wilian too . A striker to compete with Lukaku and replace Zlatan a centre half and left back too. Still very much a rebuilding job being done

bangkok

Tylerdurex wrote: »

He trusted certain players in the past such as deco lampard Drogba and Terry but you get the feeling he doesn't trust a lot of the players in this United team because they aren't really want he wants .He needs to be fully backed in the summer though because if anyone can find a way to beat pep he can . He has done it before. He should have gotten Perisic instead of the club penny pinching. Fully expecting 4 or 5 signings in the summer Martial Mata and Mkhitaryan could be replaced by Greizmann Ozil and fabregas . He'll be interested in Perisic and Wilian too . A striker to compete with Lukaku and replace Zlatan a centre half and left back too. Still very much a rebuilding job being done

So you want him to buy his way out of trouble and not develop the players he already has?

SlickRic

Tylerdurex wrote: »

He trusted certain players in the past such as deco lampard Drogba and Terry but you get the feeling he doesn't trust a lot of the players in this United team because they aren't really want he wants .He needs to be fully backed in the summer though because if anyone can find a way to beat pep he can . He has done it before. He should have gotten Perisic instead of the club penny pinching. Fully expecting 4 or 5 signings in the summer Martial Mata and Mkhitaryan could be replaced by Greizmann Ozil and fabregas . He'll be interested in Perisic and Wilian too . A striker to compete with Lukaku and replace Zlatan a centre half and left back too. Still very much a rebuilding job being done

this is the other way in which City have shifted the goalposts.

City had a great spine of young/approaching their prime players like KDB and Sterling, along with established superstars like Silva, Kompany and Aguero. over 3 transfer windows, Pep was given a whole heap of money to fill the gaps in the team. the cost didn't matter. Walker - 50m. Mendy - £52m. Stones - £50m. Ederson - £35m. Jesus - £30m+.

City were utterly ruthless in just filling positions. it wasn't about developing players by putting them in the first team. it was about getting the players they needed to win now, and if the youth team produces players who can compete with that, then great.

with Pep in charge at City, clubs must be utterly ruthless in their spending to actually compete.

Pogba was a huge outlay. as Bailly was (relatively). and obviously Lukaku.

but more is needed if City are to be overhauled. it's just a fact. their squad was in much better shape than yours a year or 2 ago. so by definition, you must match City's outlay, and probably exceed it, in order to overhaul them.

Robson99

Robson99 wrote: »

Dont even bother eric. Some people think its great to be coming second and think Europa league success and carling cup wins are a great achievement for us.
There is nothing to celebrate or to be applauded about coming second . I wonder was Jimmy White ever happy with been second ?
We had a chance to laay down a marker last Sunday and against Liverpool and our manager let us down by not going for either game

Again...

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=105554365&postcount=1090

You're going back over points which people have been trying to debate with you, ignoring the responses to just throw out the same sound bites. What in the blue hell has Jimmy White got to do with it?

And I have absolutely no problem with a United fan not liking Mourinho. Let's face it, there was about 100 million of us up until 18 months ago. As a fan of a club, I believe fans should support the manager and players. Liking them is a different story though and admittedly Mourinho can make that hard at times.

However, all you are doing (and one or two other posters) is saying that you don't like him, you think the club is in shíte and those who don't agree have their heads in the sand. Yes - you said "but everything is awesome" and I believe it was secman who put up a post a few days ago simply saying "Heads...sand."

How about suggesting an alternative to Jose? We know you don't like him or want him, so who do you want instead and we'll talk about that? Because it's getting pretty old just bashing him and the club's season without giving a decent reason beyond 'If you're not first you're last' or some other inane version of that.

This thread should be a place where fans can post and explore opinions whether they are popular or not, close to the mark or not. However, if you just keep repeating the same point without expanding on it or suggesting an alternative, don't be too surprised when people start taking your views less seriously.

jayo26

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Again...

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=105554365&postcount=1090

You're going back over points which people have been trying to debate with you, ignoring the responses to just throw out the same sound bites. What in the blue hell has Jimmy White got to do with it?

And I have absolutely no problem with a United fan not liking Mourinho. Let's face it, there was about 100 million of us up until 18 months ago. As a fan of a club, I believe fans should support the manager and players. Liking them is a different story though and admittedly Mourinho can make that hard at times.

However, all you are doing (and one or two other posters) is saying that you don't like him, you think the club is in shíte and those who don't agree have their heads in the sand. Yes - you said "but everything is awesome" and I believe it was secman who put up a post a few days ago simply saying "Heads...sand."

How about suggesting an alternative to Jose? We know you don't like him or want him, so who do you want instead and we'll talk about that? Because it's getting pretty old just bashing him and the club's season without giving a decent reason beyond 'If you're not first you're last' or some other inane version of that.

This thread should be a place where fans can post and explore opinions whether they are popular or not, close to the mark or not. However, if you just keep repeating the same point without expanding on it or suggesting an alternative, don't be too surprised when people start taking your views less seriously.

fatherted1969

What's the story with Miki these days ? Seems to get away with murder even in here. We're crying out for a bit of creativity in the middle third to provide some sort of link to our attacking players. No sign of him at all. Don't think he's injured. Was reported he was a bit lightweight for the premiership but he's not small or easily pushed around. The Bundesliga is a tough division and he thrived there. Really need him in the team and playing well currently

SlickRic

SlickRic wrote: »

City this season have changed the game.

there would still be criticism after certain games, obviously, but the strength of it would be nowhere near the same.

being a child of the 90s i have a LOT of Utd supporting mates, and they are still utterly unconvinced, and a few wouldn't be unhappy at all to see José go.

take City's juggernaut out of the equation, and I'm sorry, the same conversations aren't happening.

Jos biggest flaw is that he doesn't trust his players to impose themselves on games against the better teams, and i don't think he's evolved his style to suit the modern game where you need slightly more nuance in how you set up, and not just be relentlessly direct.

but meh. every manager has his flaws. even Pep. it's just City have everyone running scared.

I don't fully believe that.
He does when we have our best team available.
I've said this multiple times but for games against City, Liverpool, Chelsea & Spurs for example we did not have Pogba available to us.
I've also said multiple times that Pogba is as critical to us as Silva is to City or Ozil is to Arsenal, Hazard for Chelesa or Coutihnio for Liverpool.

City squad however I can agree have more strength in depth if one of their best players isn't available.

Nalz

fatherted1969 wrote: »

What's the story with Miki these days ? Seems to get away with murder even in here. We're crying out for a bit of creativity in the middle third to provide some sort of link to our attacking players. No sign of him at all. Don't think he's injured. Was reported he was a bit lightweight for the premiership but he's not small or easily pushed around. The Bundesliga is a tough division and he thrived there. Really need him in the team and playing well currently

He's getting away with murder lately in here because he's not doing anything wrong...because he's not making the XI or bench

fatherted1969

fatherted1969 wrote: »

What's the story with Miki these days ? Seems to get away with murder even in here. We're crying out for a bit of creativity in the middle third to provide some sort of link to our attacking players. No sign of him at all. Don't think he's injured. Was reported he was a bit lightweight for the premiership but he's not small or easily pushed around. The Bundesliga is a tough division and he thrived there. Really need him in the team and playing well currently

He really hasn't at all.
He was dog poor for weeks and was rightly criticized by a lot of us.
Jose dropped him and rightly so.

Trigger

fatherted1969 wrote: »

What's the story with Miki these days ? Seems to get away with murder even in here. We're crying out for a bit of creativity in the middle third to provide some sort of link to our attacking players. No sign of him at all. Don't think he's injured. Was reported he was a bit lightweight for the premiership but he's not small or easily pushed around. The Bundesliga is a tough division and he thrived there. Really need him in the team and playing well currently

From Manutd.com

MOURINHO EXPLAINS MKHITARYAN ABSENCE

Jose Mourinho has explained why he has decided to leave Henrikh Mkhitaryan out of his Manchester United squad for recent matches.

The Armenian has not been involved in the matchday squad in seven of the last eight games and last featured as a substitute in United's 1-0 win over Brighton on 25 November.

Mourinho was asked about Mkhitaryan's absence in his post-match press conference following the Reds' 1-0 victory over Bournemouth at Old Trafford on Wednesday night.

The boss outlined that his plethora of options in midfield and attacking positions means that there is competition for every place in the starting line-up and on the bench.

He said: “I can only have six [outfield] players on the bench and I try to have some balance on the bench – I had two defenders and [Daley] Blind who can play in different areas. I had Ashley Young to cover me all of the wing and the wing-back position.

“I had [Ander] Herrera as a midfield player, Zlatan [Ibrahimovic] as a striker and Marcus [Rashford] as a second striker and winger. I played [Anthony] Martial, [Juan] Mata and [Jesse] Lingard in the team. To have Micki means that I don’t have one of them and, in this moment, I believe the other ones they deserve [the chance to play].”

Mkhitaryan will be working hard in a bid to return when the Reds return to action on Sunday in the Premier League against West Bromwich Albion at The Hawthorns (kick-off 14:15 GMT).

limnam

Robson99 wrote: »

Dont even bother eric. Some people think its great to be coming second and think Europa league success and carling cup wins are a great achievement for us.
There is nothing to celebrate or to be applauded about coming second . I wonder was Jimmy White ever happy with been second ?
We had a chance to laay down a marker last Sunday and against Liverpool and our manager let us down by not going for either game

You've joined a number of people in the last few weeks who've gone out of their way to reveal they're utterly clueless in anything relating to football.

Congratulations.

pjohnson

limnam wrote: »

You've joined a number of people in the last few weeks who've gone out of their way to reveal they're utterly clueless in anything relating to football.

Congratulations.

I believe it was the poster you quoted who suggested 2 weeks ago that a failure to get at least 4 points against Arsenal and City should mean Joses job is on the line.

Not that suprising he has just replaced the Arsenal match where we won with the Liverpool match we drew to suit the agenda.

fatherted1969

fatherted1969 wrote: »

What's the story with Miki these days ? Seems to get away with murder even in here. We're crying out for a bit of creativity in the middle third to provide some sort of link to our attacking players. No sign of him at all. Don't think he's injured. Was reported he was a bit lightweight for the premiership but he's not small or easily pushed around. The Bundesliga is a tough division and he thrived there. Really need him in the team and playing well currently

Saw these quotes doing the rounds after the Bournemouth game, not that they add a whole lot of clarity to the situation...

Jose wrote:

I can only have six [outfield] players on the bench and I try to have some balance on the bench - I had two defenders and Blind who can play in different areas. I had Ashley Young to cover me all of the wing and the wing-back position.

"I had Herrera as a midfield player, Zlatan as a striker and Marcus as a second striker and winger. I played Martial, Mata and Lingard in the team. To have Micki means that I don’t have one of them and, in this moment, I believe the other ones they deserve [the chance to play]."

Translate...

I say nothing. This is not something I speak of at all, but I say this - Have you honestly seen Mkhi play lately? I see Jurgen Klopp question the interviewer's football knowledge on Merseyside, I must do the same with you now. Did you actually watch Mkhi play in October? If so, how can you ask me such a question?

I say nothing, nothing at all, but this...I believe the Joyces of Offaly have a phrase, if I can get this correct - 'Shíte in a bucket?', is this it?

***looks at Karen Shotbolt for reassurance***

Yes, 'Shíte in a bucket!', this is what Mkhi's performances reminded me of when he last played in my team. I had Luke Shaw's suitcase packed tight. Ander Herrera has had a full frontal lobotomy, but still they are better for my squad at this moment than Mkhi and his bucket.

I'd say Mkhi will get his chance again, and probably soon over the upcoming busy run, but he needed to be dropped.

Tylerdurex

bangkok wrote: »

So you want him to buy his way out of trouble and not develop the players he already has?

To compete against this City side that's what may need to be done. As has be mentioned before United are actually having a good season and their points total would make them title contenders any other season but city have raised the bar massively and you don't see pep shackled with the same development expectations

Tylerdurex

That new Scottish blond one on sky sports is some bird

Adamocovic

Deleted User wrote: »

This thread should be a place where fans can post and explore opinions whether they are popular or not, close to the mark or not. However, if you just keep repeating the same point without expanding on it or suggesting an alternative, don't be too surprised when people start taking your views less seriously.

Here here Stu.

Too many people seem to be stuck in the Fergie years forgetting where this team has been over the past couple of seasons.

The previous 4 seasons we've finished 6th, 5th, 4th, and 7th.
This season we have seen a big improvement. Yes it's not perfect and there are areas which I am not happy with José but the overall progress is there.

I'm not writing off the title but it's ludicrous for some to suggest we should not be happy with 2nd place.

Cantona's Collars

Tylerdurex wrote: »

That new Scottish blond one on sky sports is some bird

She's usually on at night, she's a cracker alright and that accent too.

jayo26

Tylerdurex wrote: »

To compete against this City side that's what may need to be done. As has be mentioned before United are actually having a good season and their points total would make them title contenders any other season but city have raised the bar massively and you don't see pep shackled with the same development expectations

There is talk of city spending another 100 million this January.... this is pretty straight forward United can not spend money like That!!! Real Madrid or Barcelona and spend money like That either.

Tylerdurex

jayo26 wrote: »

There is talk of city spending another 100 million this January.... this is pretty straight forward United can not spend money like That!!! Real Madrid or Barcelona and spend money like That either.

True but Mourinho wanted Perisic so he should have gotten him instead the deal fell through over a few million euros

Adamocovic

Quotes from Phil Jones about the match the other night.

"It was always going to be difficult off the back of the derby defeat," said the defender. "[We were] so disappointed in many ways because of the magnitude of the game and we wanted to do more.

"We wanted to win the game and unfortunately it wasn't to be, so it was important that we came out tonight, showed a bit of fight and a bit of courage, [with] players getting on the ball and trying to do something.


"It wasn't pretty at times. We had to dig deep and grind it out, but the most important thing was to get three points and get back on track.

"I'd just like to say to thank you to the fans as well because I think it was difficult for them on Sunday in the derby defeat.

"Tonight they stuck by us again. When times are hard, they're singing, they're chanting for us and we'll need that going on in the season."

I know I'm a big Jones fan but he genuinely seems to love the club. Happy he's having a good season. Also throwback to him in the crowd.

jayo26

Tylerdurex wrote: »

True but Mourinho wanted Perisic so he should have gotten him instead the deal fell through over a few million euros

I don't this k its straight forward as that I think Jose understood the financial side of perisic deal and didn't want to pay that much over the odds for a 28+ player.

With the way rashford and martial have improved this year I don't think perisic would of improved us that much he is as inconsistent as the forwards we already have at the club and he turns up in games sporadically.

bangkok

Tylerdurex wrote: »

To compete against this City side that's what may need to be done. As has be mentioned before United are actually having a good season and their points total would make them title contenders any other season but city have raised the bar massively and you don't see pep shackled with the same development expectations

Are the city players getting coached better though?

What has happened to Herrera, mkhitarayan, lukaku in last few weeks?

Why does sterling, sane and fernandinho all look class now?

City will spalsh the cash again next summer, mendy to come back into the team, they could be even better again next season. Should we just be happy to be 2nd again next year?

Cantona's Collars

jayo26 wrote: »

There is talk of city spending another 100 million this January.... this is pretty straight forward United can not spend money like That!!! Real Madrid or Barcelona and spend money like That either.

Virgil Van Djik and another reported as their targets this coming window.

pjohnson

Tylerdurex wrote: »

That new Scottish blond one on sky sports is some bird

Cantona's Collars wrote: »

She's usually on at night, she's a cracker alright and that accent too.

Ah here. Names/Pics or GTFO :P

bangkok

Cantona's Collars wrote: »

Virgil Van Djik and another reported as their targets this coming window.

Alexis sanchez you would have to imagine

jayo26

bangkok wrote: »

Alexis sanchez you would have to imagine

Nope ingo Martinez.

I don't think sanchez would get into that side on his current form and the form of the city forwards.

bangkok

jayo26 wrote: »

Nope ingo Martinez.

I don't think sanchez would get into that side on his current form and the form of the city forwards.

He would improve there squad though and can play up top.

jayo26

pjohnson wrote: »

Ah here. Names/Pics or GTFO :P

jayo26

bangkok wrote: »

He would improve there squad though and can play up top.

You think Sanchez would move to be a squad player?


The only player I want to see city signing is Faustino Asprilla

bangkok

jayo26 wrote: »

You think Sanchez would move to be a squad player?


The only player I want to see city signing is Faustino Asprilla

Nearly every player at city is a squad player including jesus and aguero...

Just ask any fantasy football manager!!

Adamocovic

Adamocovic wrote: »

Quotes from Phil Jones about the match the other night.



I know I'm a big Jones fan but he genuinely seems to love the club. Happy he's having a good season. Also throwback to him in the crowd.

Laughing With Phil in the Anfield Road Stand
Never forget

secman

bmcc10 wrote: »

Robben and Duff where brilliant under mourinho

Arjen Robben claimed that it was a "relief" to leave Chelsea and said that he felt a lack of support from manager

I genuinely don't think Mourinho would sign Mahrez. As much as I would like him at the club, super player.

secman

secman wrote: »

Arjen Robben claimed that it was a "relief" to leave Chelsea and said that he felt a lack of support from manager

I genuinely don't think Mourinho would sign Mahrez. As much as I would like him at the club, super player.

Do you have a quote from him where he said that about Jose?

jayo26

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Do you have a quote from him where he said that about Jose?

He actually did say it when he was completing his Madrid transfer but he didn't mention jose from what i recall. I think it was because Chelsea were reluctant to pay him what he wanted because if his injuries.

Eitherways he was still an excellent player with Chelsea probably even better then he was with Madrid.

jayo26

jayo26 wrote: »

He actually did say it when he was completing his Madrid transfer but he didn't mention jose from what i recall. I think it was because Chelsea were reluctant to pay him what he wanted because if his injuries.

Eitherways he was still an excellent player with Chelsea probably even better then he was with Madrid.

O ya I tght it was directed at Chelsea not Jose just wasn't sure

jayo26

[Deleted User] wrote: »

O ya I tght it was directed at Chelsea not Jose just wasn't sure

Well it probably was directed at him but I don't really see what it's got to do to say that he wasn't a great player at Chelsea.

jayo26

jayo26 wrote: »

Well I probably was directed at him but I don't really see what it's got to do to say that he wasn't a great player at Chelsea.

O right I'm all over the shop.

jayo26

Lets cheer this place up



Happy birthday to a United legend
































Never forget that goal.

Lithium93_

jayo26 wrote: »

Lets cheer this place up



Happy birthday to a United legend
































Never forget that goal.

Certainly one way to write your name into United cult hero status

deaddonkey15

Lithium93_ wrote: »

Certainly one way to write your name into United cult hero status

It'll be a while before we put 4 past City again.

Lithium93_

Jayo26 tries to cheer the thread up, balloon gets popped instantly..

irishman86

bangkok wrote: »

He would improve there squad though and can play up top.

He isnt coming to improve the squad though, hes poison just look at his performances at Arsenal
Sane and Sterling far more effective, i'd hope Pep has the sense to stay away from Sanchez

jayo26

deaddonkey15 wrote: »

It'll be a while before we put 4 past City again.

secman

If the Germans and the English could call a truce at Christmas from shooting each in the trenches and play a footy match...... I declare a truce.... Happy Christmas to you all

secman

On a totally separate note, what obscure United player pops into your head from yonks ago....

I'll start it off ..... Carlo Sartori... A little ginger head guy from probably the late sixties, early seventies, never made it big, but his non Lancashire or non irish name just stuck with me all these years !

v3ttel

secman wrote: »

On a totally separate note, what obscure United player pops into your head from yonks ago....

I'll start it off ..... Carlo Sartori... A little ginger head guy from probably the late sixties, early seventies, never made it big, but his non Lancashire or non irish name just stuck with me all these years !

Not terribly obscure, but not exactly household names either:

Daniel Nardiello...... championship manager legend. I think he ended up bouncing around the lower leagues but haven't really heard of him in quite a while.

Ben Thornley.... came through around the time of the class of '92 but ended up just jumping down level by level....always thought he'd be decent.

(Chris) Casper... the friendly....defender. I think he retired due to injury not long after he left United.

jayo26

Dong fangszu and mads timm would be mine and Peter Beardsley can't believe he was on the books with us as a teenager he is definitely one that got away.

jayo26

Manucho aswell