Manchester United Thread..The Final Chapter of 17? (MOD WARNINGS IN OP)

Trigger

Minderbinder wrote: »

Really bad news to hear that Bailly is out for a few months and needs ankle surgery. Ankle injuries can be tough to fully recover from and hopefully it’s not similar to the Arsenal player.

Be out till at least March.. how many injuries from internationals have we had this year ffs

https://twitter.com/samuelluckhurst/status/941664068313735169

Tylerdurex

Adamocovic wrote: »

Tylerdurex wrote: »

All great players but we were too Gung ho and tactically inept in the 90s and early 00s , 99 aside those players lost CL ties V Dortmund , Monaco , an average Real Madrid side and Levergusen which should not have happened . The 2008 team was much better tactically to succeed in Europe , they were just misfortunate to come up against the best club side in the history of the game.

Too gung ho and tactically inept? One of greatest periods. Winning a CL is tough work. 98-99 was only our second. Even you remove that treble winning season the squad from 1990-2005 were incredibly successful.

PL Titles:
x8: 92-93, 93-94, 95-96, 99-00, 00-01, 02-03

FA Cup:
x3: 93-94, 95-96, 03-04

League Cup:
x1: 91-92

Community Shield:
x5: 93, 94, 96, 97, 03

17 trophies (minus the treble season as I said). Hardly the exploits of a tactically inept side.

And as for Europe and the matches you listed.
-Are you referring to when we were knocked out by Dortmund, who would then go on to win the tournament?

-And the Monaco side who had just previously won the French league with Thierry Henry and David Trezeguet. Hardly a poor or average side.

-The Leverkusen side who just narrowly lost out to Madrid in the final for the CL?

-And finally an "average" Real Madrid squad in 02/03 with Zidane, Figo, Ronaldo, Raul, Roberto Carlos, Casillas who were current holders of the CL at the time? Or are you referring to the one that knocked us out in the 90s 99/00 season on their way to winning the whole comp.

While most of the games you mentioned were tight and some we were unfortunate to lose on goal differences, they aren't massive defeats to average sides that suggest what you are saying.

I was referring to the real Madrid side that knocked us out in 2000 with Redondo and who also went on to win it that year but finished 5th in la liga. You really are clutching at straws with mentioning Trezeguet and Henry and using the success of the French national team as an excuse why Monaco beat us. Both of those guys were kids and peripheral to that French team . They certainly were not the heart and soul of that team . Zidane Vieira Petit Thuram Deseilly Lizarazu Blanc were there too don't forget. Henry hadn't even had his move to Juve yet . Also regarding domestic success until Wenger arrived United had no real challenge from any other teams . It was a cake walk almost every season

Tylerdurex

Adamocovic wrote: »

Tylerdurex wrote: »

All great players but we were too Gung ho and tactically inept in the 90s and early 00s , 99 aside those players lost CL ties V Dortmund , Monaco , an average Real Madrid side and Levergusen which should not have happened . The 2008 team was much better tactically to succeed in Europe , they were just misfortunate to come up against the best club side in the history of the game.

Too gung ho and tactically inept? One of greatest periods. Winning a CL is tough work. 98-99 was only our second. Even you remove that treble winning season the squad from 1990-2005 were incredibly successful.

PL Titles:
x8: 92-93, 93-94, 95-96, 99-00, 00-01, 02-03

FA Cup:
x3: 93-94, 95-96, 03-04

League Cup:
x1: 91-92

Community Shield:
x5: 93, 94, 96, 97, 03

17 trophies (minus the treble season as I said). Hardly the exploits of a tactically inept side.

And as for Europe and the matches you listed.
-Are you referring to when we were knocked out by Dortmund, who would then go on to win the tournament?

-And the Monaco side who had just previously won the French league with Thierry Henry and David Trezeguet. Hardly a poor or average side.

-The Leverkusen side who just narrowly lost out to Madrid in the final for the CL?

-And finally an "average" Real Madrid squad in 02/03 with Zidane, Figo, Ronaldo, Raul, Roberto Carlos, Casillas who were current holders of the CL at the time? Or are you referring to the one that knocked us out in the 90s 99/00 season on their way to winning the whole comp.

While most of the games you mentioned were tight and some we were unfortunate to lose on goal differences, they aren't massive defeats to average sides that suggest what you are saying.

I was referring to the real Madrid side that knocked us out in 2000 with Redondo and who also went on to win it that year but finished 5th in la liga. You really are clutching at straws with mentioning Trezeguet and Henry and using the success of the French national team as an excuse why Monaco beat us. Both of those guys were kids and peripheral to that French team . They certainly were not the heart and soul of that team . Zidane Vieira Petit Thuram Deseilly Lizarazu Blanc were there too don't forget. Henry hadn't even had his move to Juve yet . Also regarding domestic success until Wenger arrived United had no real challenge from any other teams . It was a cake walk almost every season

Tylerdurex

Adamocovic wrote: »

Tylerdurex wrote: »

All great players but we were too Gung ho and tactically inept in the 90s and early 00s , 99 aside those players lost CL ties V Dortmund , Monaco , an average Real Madrid side and Levergusen which should not have happened . The 2008 team was much better tactically to succeed in Europe , they were just misfortunate to come up against the best club side in the history of the game.

Too gung ho and tactically inept? One of greatest periods. Winning a CL is tough work. 98-99 was only our second. Even you remove that treble winning season the squad from 1990-2005 were incredibly successful.

PL Titles:
x8: 92-93, 93-94, 95-96, 99-00, 00-01, 02-03

FA Cup:
x3: 93-94, 95-96, 03-04

League Cup:
x1: 91-92

Community Shield:
x5: 93, 94, 96, 97, 03

17 trophies (minus the treble season as I said). Hardly the exploits of a tactically inept side.

And as for Europe and the matches you listed.
-Are you referring to when we were knocked out by Dortmund, who would then go on to win the tournament?

-And the Monaco side who had just previously won the French league with Thierry Henry and David Trezeguet. Hardly a poor or average side.

-The Leverkusen side who just narrowly lost out to Madrid in the final for the CL?

-And finally an "average" Real Madrid squad in 02/03 with Zidane, Figo, Ronaldo, Raul, Roberto Carlos, Casillas who were current holders of the CL at the time? Or are you referring to the one that knocked us out in the 90s 99/00 season on their way to winning the whole comp.

While most of the games you mentioned were tight and some we were unfortunate to lose on goal differences, they aren't massive defeats to average sides that suggest what you are saying.

I was referring to the real Madrid side that knocked us out in 2000 with Redondo and who also went on to win it that year but finished 5th in la liga. You really are clutching at straws with mentioning Trezeguet and Henry and using the success of the French national team as an excuse why Monaco beat us. Both of those guys were kids and peripheral to that French team . They certainly were not the heart and soul of that team . Zidane Vieira Petit Thuram Deseilly Lizarazu Blanc were there too don't forget. Henry hadn't even had his move to Juve yet . Also regarding domestic success until Wenger arrived United had no real challenge from any other teams . It was a cake walk almost every season

Tylerdurex

Also when i said tactically inept I meant in Europe only

Adamocovic

Tylerdurex wrote: »

I was referring to the real Madrid side that knocked us out in 2000 with Redondo and who also went on to win it that year but finished 5th in la liga. You really are clutching at straws with mentioning Trezeguet and Henry and using the success of the French national team as an excuse why Monaco beat us. Both of those guys were kids and peripheral to that French team . They certainly were not the heart and soul of that team . Zidane Vieira Petit Thuram Deseilly Lizarazu Blanc were there too don't forget. Henry hadn't even had his move to Juve yet . Also regarding domestic success until Wenger arrived United had no real challenge from any other teams . It was a cake walk almost every season

Tylerdurex wrote: »

Also when i said tactically inept I meant in Europe only

I agree that those matches you mentioned could have gone the other way and with the squad we had we were capable of getting to more finals in that period, I'd say we'd just have to agree to disagree on the quality of our opposition and how critical of the team to be.

I do know I hold that period and squad in high regard so maybe I'm a bit too protective when it comes to criticisms towards it/them.

jayo26

Whatsisname wrote: »

From about 2003 on is really where I can say my earliest memories of United were, only a year or two of of Keane but by god do I remember him and Veiras battles.

Beckham is a player I really wish I saw more of in a United kit. Oh how we could do with a new no.7.

You also missed out on these

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5VQHzJu3bYA

hufpc8w3adnk65

Paul Pogba is still suspended - serves the final game of his three-match ban. "The injured players [from Wednesday] are still injured [Carrick / Fellaini./ Rojo / Carrick / Bailly], but we don’t have new injuries. The same group from the other day." #MUFC

Adamocovic

All the nostalgia.

Have to dust off some of my old VHS tapes and see if I can get them onto the laptop.
Can't find it online but I remember having one where the squad went to Brazil, think it was the Fifa club world championships in 2000.

Just remember clips of fortune in goals during training, some messing going on too, used to love watching it, despite the poor results. Have a few other tapes from the mid-late 90s and early 2000s.

Will have a look during the Christmas holidays but I'd say the tapes probably don't work anymore!

Lord TSC

M!Ck^ wrote: »

https://twitter.com/SkyRevista/status/941602112559091712

Sadly think he's Barca bound.

Mind, I think we'd be better served spreading the 100m out tbh. If we got, for instance, Ozil, William and a third player (CM or fullback) instead of just Griezmann, we might be in a better position....

Trigger

Lord TSC wrote: »

Sadly think he's Barca bound.

Mind, I think we'd be better served spreading the 100m out tbh. If we got, for instance, Ozil, William and a third player (CM or fullback) instead of just Griezmann, we might be in a better position....

Only way I could seen him going to Barca is if they move Suárez on..

0gac3yjefb5sv7

Not very keen on Griezmann so it wouldn't be a big loss.

Lord TSC

astradave wrote: »

Only way I could seen him going to Barca is if they move Suárez on..

I remember reading in the summer that they knew Suarez was nearing the end of his ability to be that top level player they need alongside Messi. Plus they still need a proper Neymar replacement given Dembele has been out injured so much afaik.

Giggsy11

Going by Jose's comments, we might go for Ozil in Jan.

Lord TSC

Giggsy11 wrote: »

Going by Jose's comments, we might go for Ozil in Jan.

Not cup tied and a position we badly need, will be relatively cheap AND will generate tears from Arsenal fans. He'd be a brilliant buy.

Toobz

Lord TSC wrote: »

Not cup tied and a position we badly need, will be relatively cheap AND will generate tears from Arsenal fans. He'd be a brilliant buy.

Been arsenals best player last few weeks too, nice to get an Ozil that's in form on our side!

Sucks to hear and the Baily injury

deaddonkey15

Lord TSC wrote: »

Not cup tied and a position we badly need, will be relatively cheap AND will generate tears from Arsenal fans. He'd be a brilliant buy.

I think another top quality midfielder is what we need the most.

hufpc8w3adnk65

Going by Arsenal fans in general Ozil only hits form when he’s due a new contract

KaiserGunner

MrMac84 wrote: »

Going by Arsenal fans in general Ozil only hits form when he’s due a new contract

He’s on his first Arsenal contract though, so I disagree with that and I’m an Arsenal fan. His Arsenal career has been mixed, but he’s been a lot better than many neutrals-non Arsenal fans give him credit for.

Theo Walcott is the poster child at Arsenal for hitting form when due a new contract.

hufpc8w3adnk65

KaiserGunner wrote: »

He’s on his first Arsenal contract though, so I disagree with that and I’m an Arsenal fan. His Arsenal career has been mixed, but he’s been a lot better than many neutrals-non Arsenal fans give him credit for.

Theo Walcott is the poster child at Arsenal for hitting form when due a new contract.

I’m only basing it on two Arsenal fans I know comments...

AidoEirE

How was Ozil at Madrid when managed by Jose compared at Arsenal under Wenger?
I wouldnt be to sure about him as he's has gone missing in big games and tends not to pull in the team performance ( tracking back, hands in the air) when things not going his way.

Was he a better player under jose there and can he get the best out of him?

I tend to think before he recaptured his current form he had a good game out of every 3/4

DM_7

Based on Ibra, Lukaku and Matic I would fully support any signing Jose already worked with.

bmcc10

The best no.10 in the world with mourinho. Had 80 something assists in the 3 seasons they where together at Madrid. Funny as he's type of player you'd think mourinho wouldn't like

Turtwig

AidoEirE wrote: »

How was Ozil at Madrid when managed by Jose compared at Arsenal under Wenger?
I wouldnt be to sure about him as he's has gone missing in big games and tends not to pull in the team performance ( tracking back, hands in the air) when things not going his way.

Was he a better player under jose there and can he get the best out of him?

I tend to think before he recaptured his current form he had a good game out of every 3/4

Madrid relied heavily on transitions. Ozil thrived in those, he had runners he could always play the ball into. Spain was different too in that teams, initially at least, largely still had a go at Madrid despite the fact that Madrid were for all intents and purposes sitting deeper and waiting for opponent errors. Overtime though more and more teams realised that Madrid really struggled to proactively break teams down. Ozil's influence became less and less and Madrid had no choice but to let him go.

Trigger

bmcc10 wrote: »

The best no.10 in the world with mourinho. Had 80 something assists in the 3 seasons they where together at Madrid. Funny as he's type of player you'd think mourinho wouldn't like

There is a lot of basic misconceptions around about Jose tbh

fatherted1969

Obscure players

Tony Robins. If it wasn't for his goal I still believe Fergie would have been out of a job that day


Russel Beardsmore. Was a tricky little winger but just came in at a time when we were not very good

Maiorana. Can't remember his first name but it was strange seeing a player with an Italian name playing for us. How times have changed. Gullaiana or something like that was his first name

I liked Jesper Olson too. Great winger

Cookiemunster

Turtwig wrote: »

Madrid relied heavily on transitions. Ozil thrived in those, he had runners he could always play the ball into. Spain was different too in that teams, initially at least, largely still had a go at Madrid despite the fact that Madrid were for all intents and purposes sitting deeper and waiting for opponent errors. Overtime though more and more teams realised that Madrid really struggled to proactively break teams down. Ozil's influence became less and less and Madrid had no choice but to let him go.

I think you mean he was sold along with Higuain, Albiol and Callejon to finance the €100m they paid for Bale.

Potential Underachiever

fatherted1969 wrote: »

Obscure players

Tony Robins. If it wasn't for his goal I still believe Fergie would have been out of a job that day


Russel Beardsmore. Was a tricky little winger but just came in at a time when we were not very good

Maiorana. Can't remember his first name but it was strange seeing a player with an Italian name playing for us. How times have changed. Gullaiana or something like that was his first name

I liked Jesper Olson too. Great winger

I heard that robins guy was a great man for a motivational talk too.

fatherted1969

Potential Underachiever wrote: »

I heard that robins guy was a great man for a motivational talk too.

Had to go looking 😄 I stand corrected. How did I forget his name was mark. Made a decent enough career after as lbeit not with Utd

brinty

Obscure players
Tony Gill
Deiniol Graham
Ronnie Wallwork
Michael Stewart
John Curtis
Eric Nevland
Alex Notman
Ben Thornley
John O'Kane
Colin McKee

jayo26

Few of them weren't obscure brinty just they were sh1te ha.

secman

brinty wrote: »

Obscure players
Tony Gill
Deiniol Graham
Ronnie Wallwork
Michael Stewart
John Curtis
Eric Nevland
Alex Notman
Ben Thornley
John O'Kane
Colin McKee

Did any of them make first team appearances ?
Recall about 3 of those names.

brinty

secman wrote:

Did any of them make first team appearances ? Recall about 3 of those names.

All of them did

brinty

jayo26 wrote:

Few of them weren't obscure brinty just they were sh1te ha.

You would say that

jayo26

brinty wrote: »

You would say that

You would also agree haha. They wouldn't make out ladies five a side team they were that bad.

LiamoSail

brinty wrote: »

Obscure players
Tony Gill
Deiniol Graham
Ronnie Wallwork
Michael Stewart
John Curtis
Eric Nevland
Alex Notman
Ben Thornley
John O'Kane
Colin McKee

Just googled to see what happened him. Ended up in jail for being part of a stolen call racket. Amazing how stupid ex footballers can be

brinty

jayo26 wrote:

You would also agree haha. They wouldn't make out ladies five a side team they were that bad.

Not a chance mate
No Hayley in that bunch

Sand

astradave wrote: »

There is a lot of basic misconceptions around about Jose tbh

Jose transcends objective perception. He is whoever or whatever the observer needs him to be so that they are right.

AidoEirE

Sand wrote: »

Jose transcends objective perception. He is whoever or whatever the observer needs him to be so that they are right.

But whose right? The people thinking he's wrong so their right or he's right and were all wrong, but were right because he's wrong..Hmm..

Sand

AidoEirE wrote: »

But whose right? The people thinking he's wrong so their right or he's right and were all wrong, Hmm

Its a bit like Schrodinger's cat. Inside the box is Jose. Jose is either the most cynical, defensive and tactical manger in the game. Or he is the most aggressive, creative and attacking manager in the game. You don't know, and he is both at the same time, until you open the box and get the scoreline.

Honestly, I wasn't in favour of Mourinho's appointment. I've enjoyed his reign more than I thought I would. But equally, people complaining about his victimisation man-management of certain players, or his (cynical) approach to games against top 6 sides: It's Jose Mourinho. Who did you think United appointed?

At this point, let him on with it. Either he will sweep all before him, trampling our rivals underfoot. Or he will quit by this time next year in a maelstrom of infighting and bitterness, blaming the club for not backing him 100%. Either-way he will gift us with the tallest squad on average in the Premiership, and maybe the world.

AidoEirE

Sand wrote: »

Its a bit like Schrodinger's cat. Inside the box is Jose. Jose is either the most cynical, defensive and tactical manger in the game. Or he is the most aggressive, creative and attacking manager in the game. You don't know, and he is both at the same time, until you open the box and get the scoreline.

Honestly, I wasn't in favour of Mourinho's appointment. I've enjoyed his reign more than I thought I would. But equally, people complaining about his victimisation man-management of certain players, or his (cynical) approach to games against top 6 sides: It's Jose Mourinho. Who did you think United appointed?

At this point, let him on with it. Either he will sweep all before him, trampling our rivals underfoot. Or he will quit by this time next year in a maelstrom of infighting and bitterness, blaming the club for not backing him 100%. Either-way he will gift us with the tallest squad on average in the Premiership, and maybe the world.

Have you seen the squad he inherited vs the players he bought, theres a different class of player there no matter what system he plays.

A shed load of money was spent on ****e players that wouldnt get into most top 4 sides in europe. Jose is here a year and a half and has bought quality in my eyes. Compared to moyes and lvg, moyes bought fellani who so many people gave out stink about when bought, was even boo'd at old trafford. LVG bought ****e players, which none can make the current squad.

The amount of money wasted is crazy. If you'd skip'd all the **** and say jose was replaced by fergie, we'd see a different calibre of players wearing our jersey. Since the year and a half he's been here, Jose has brought in some brilliant players.

He's trying to fix 4 years of absolute ****e, player wise as well as performance wise. Are we all so quick to forget when lvg was here you could here the crowd chanting " attack attack attack".

Get off the pedestal alot of us here should think we should be on, and move the **** on. To say we havent advanced as a team/squad under jose needs to stop.

secman

resist the temptation.... resist..... truce time.....

AidoEirE

secman wrote: »

resist the temptation.... resist..... truce time.....

Id rather ya didnt resist secman, discussion board and all that

Sand

AidoEirE wrote: »

Have you seen the squad he inherited vs the players he bought, theres a different class of player there no matter what system he plays.

A shed load of money was spent on ****e players that wouldnt get into most top 4 sides in europe. Jose is here a year and a half and has bought quality in my eyes. Compared to moyes and lvg, moyes bought fellani who so many people gave out stink about when bought, was even boo'd at old trafford. LVG bought ****e players, which none can make the current squad.

The amount of money wasted is crazy. If you'd skip'd all the **** and say jose was replaced by fergie, we'd see a different calibre of players wearing our jersey. Since the year and a half he's been here, Jose got brought in some brilliant players.

He's trying to fix 4 years of absolute ****e, player wise as well as performance wise. Are we all so quick to forget when lvg was here you could here the crowd chanting " attack attack attack".

Get off the pedestal alot of us here should think we should be on, and move the **** on. To say we havent advanced as a team/squad under jose needs to stop.

I'm with you. Generally speaking, Jose has bought some very good players. Pogba, Matic, Baily. Lukaku...good player, but he can't play isolated, alone, against an organised defence. Zlatan was a very good free last season, but is not the present, let alone the future. People are calling for Mkhitaryan to be dropped/sold. Lindelof is doing better recently from a really low base. So 3 very solid buys from 6. Maybe more if scorelines pickup.

Hes delivered 2.5 trophies. It's all good.

Cantona's Collars

Jose saying any player that's unhappy can leave if the club's valuation of them is met.
Good to see he's abandoned the tradition of us letting too many players leave on the cheap.

AidoEirE

Cantona's Collars wrote: »

Jose saying any player that's unhappy can leave if the club's valuation of them is met.
Good to see he's abandoned the tradition of us letting too many players leave on the cheap.

Quite a few players that need to go as well that are not up to standard, if they bring in funds for players who are, then brilliant. Far to many taking a free ride the last few years

AidoEirE

Sand wrote: »

I'm with you. Generally speaking, Jose has bought some very good players. Pogba, Matic, Baily. Lukaku...good player, but he can't play isolated, alone, against an organised defence. Zlatan was a very good free last season, but is not the present, let alone the future. People are calling for Mkhitaryan to be dropped/sold. Lindelof is doing better recently from a really low base. So 3 very solid buys from 6. Maybe more if scorelines pickup.

Hes delivered 2.5 trophies. It's all good.

Id have to disagree in the the fact, with lukaku he's had shocking service all season. He's judged on a player playing 1 good pass into him within 90mins and he misses. Next thing its all lukaku is ****e etc. He should be getting 4/6 really good passes during a game and we just dont have the personnal to do it.
This is moving in to a lukaku topic again, which i dont want it to as its been well bled.
Problem is the squad in a whole is disjointed.
4/5 can play LB yet we need a new one yet again apprantly, compared to the solidness of tony V at RB position, midfield is a shambles as pogba is the going oulet, it leaves Matic doing the other two CMF positions as the 3rd in that piece does nothing.

GSPfan

I’d seriously consider buying Ozil, Mahrez, and a Pogba understudy in January if I were United. Mahrez will fetch £40m, Ozil maybe £15m????, and a decent midfielder maybe £35m????

Thats £90m on 3 players instead of 1 - Griezmann.

AidoEirE

GSPfan wrote: »

I’d seriously consider buying Ozil, Mahrez, and a Pogba understudy in January if I were United. Mahrez will fetch £40m, Ozil maybe £15m????, and a decent midfielder maybe £35m????

Thats £90m on 3 players instead of 1 - Griezmann.

Ozil/Mahrez same type of player, pogba understudy we have that in what could be mctominy, and pogba so young howd u buy an understudy for that. A solid CMF presence is what id love, a Veratti type player, someone to fill that gaping 3 man midfield.