Manchester United Thread..The Final Chapter of 17? (MOD WARNINGS IN OP)

niallo27

This thread needs an alternative league table. We can make one up for you guys in the Liverpool thread if you want.

Cheslseas points total record not the games won in a row season id imagine

jayo26

niallo27 wrote: »

This thread needs an alternative league table. We can make one up for you guys in the Liverpool thread if you want.

Ye guys are king at alternative league tables to be fair.

Trigger

Deleted User wrote: »

Cheslseas points total record not the games won in a row season id imagine

But by using that is kinda manipulating the stats, if they used last seasons they had 46 points at this stage and still went on to win the league

Trigger

niallo27 wrote: »

This thread needs an alternative league table. We can make one up for you guys in the Liverpool thread if you want.

You are only offering as if you make one liverpool would be up to 3rd and nosebleed central

pjohnson

niallo27 wrote: »

This thread needs an alternative league table. We can make one up for you guys in the Liverpool thread if you want.

Whats that? Makey Upey possession based table or some such crap?

Remember when how much a striker ran about was a thing not much talk of it this season

Trigger

Oh Antoine, my heart is breaking, why are you so stupid!

:pac:

FatherTed

Business Cat wrote: »

Is anyone saying it is?

No.

However context is king.

To not be second we would have to have won every single game in the league this season so if you are only happy with a team that only wins every single game they play then I'd suggest you stop watching sport because you are going to be disappointed.

I've been a Manchester United fan since 1976 so I'll hardly stop watching United at this stage.

We are all fans, I am just sickened that we have to play second fiddle to Man City who have upped the threshold this season. Even though we are second, we are nowhere near their level in terms of consistent performance.

Lord TSC

FatherTed wrote: »

I've been a Manchester United fan since 1976 so I'll hardly stop watching United at this stage.

We are all fans, I am just sickened that we have to play second fiddle to Man City who have upped the threshold this season. Even though we are second, we are nowhere near their level in terms of consistent performance.

What you said there makes sense

What doesn't is this sense of privilege people seem to have towards thinking we should be on par with them, given the disaster that the last four years has been. After finishes of 7th, 4th (Barely), 5th and 6th, it angers me how people downplay what strides we've taken this year to be well second, and so far ahead of the likes of Spurs, Arsenal and Liverpool.

Yeah, everyone wants to be first. It's a shame we're having by far our greatest season in years, and there's people saying the sky is fallen because City are having a seemingly historic season. But it's the downplaying, the sense of "it's a disaster cause we aren't first"....it's also ignoring that City weren't starting at the same point on the ladder Jose was at United.

Given the leaps and bounds we've made in 18 months, I'd have a crazy level of trust in Jose to keep that upwards progression flowing over the next 18.

Turtwig

Lord TSC wrote: »

Given the leaps and bounds we've made in 18 months, I'd have a crazy level of trust in Jose to keep that upwards progression flowing over the next 18.

Next 12 yep. 18 I'd be dodgy about. Jose's uh personality tends to lead to internal squad rifts and implosions. The dressing room at Real when Carlo took over was an incredibly toxic and divisive place. Course if United line up Carlo after Jose that problem will be easily solved.

LiamoSail

pjohnson wrote: »

Whats that? Makey Upey possession based table or some such crap?

It's a table that accounts for the difficult of games, the premise being a win away at City is more difficult than a win at home to Bournemouth.

It's designed to show a truer reflection of position accounting for such difficulty. For example, a side 1 point clear of relegation with 2 games left have City and Chelsea away next. The side below have Bournemouth and Newcastle at home. The alternative table would show the latter side as being in a better position based on difficulty of games played. Irrespective, the final tables will end up the same.

It's an interesting slant though gets a bad name on here because it originated on RAWK. Much like crediting the nazis for the roads they built, if you can overlook their mani body of work it's actually quiet useful

niallo27

pjohnson wrote: »

Whats that? Makey Upey possession based table or some such crap?

Whatever you want it to be my son.

secman

Lord TSC wrote: »

Given the leaps and bounds we've made in 18 months, I'd have a crazy level of trust in Jose to keep that upwards progression flowing over the next 18.

Your word a "crazy" level of trust in Mourinho !

Liam O

FatherTed wrote: »

I've been a Manchester United fan since 1976 so I'll hardly stop watching United at this stage.

We are all fans, I am just sickened that we have to play second fiddle to Man City who have upped the threshold this season. Even though we are second, we are nowhere near their level in terms of consistent performance.

Nobody in any of Europe's big leagues are and pretty much never have been at this point of the season though. Jose didn't start off with Aguero, De Bruyne and Silva too.

Trigger

LiamoSail wrote: »

It's a table that accounts for the difficult of games, the premise being a win away at City is more difficult than a win at home to Bournemouth.

It's designed to show a truer reflection of position accounting for such difficulty. For example, a side 1 point clear of relegation with 2 games left have City and Chelsea away next. The side below have Bournemouth and Newcastle at home. The alternative table would show the latter side as being in a better position based on difficulty of games played. Irrespective, the final tables will end up the same.

It's an interesting slant though gets a bad name on here because it originated on RAWK. Much like crediting the nazis for the roads they built, if you can overlook their mani body of work it's actually quiet useful

Yeah but that’s not the only alternative table that gets bandied around by your brothers in arms

-The top 6 table
-Fastest striker sprint table
-Number of sprints table
-Possession table
-Shots on target table
-Anything that can make ye feel better about your current position table

Trigger

secman wrote: »

Your word a "crazy" level of trust in Mourinho !

Having a crazy level and being crazy are 2 different things..

Hey Secman while you are here, who would be your realistic replacement for Jose if he was sacked tomorrow like you would like him to be and why?

LiamoSail

astradave wrote: »

Yeah but that’s not the only alternative table that gets bandied around by your brothers in arms

-The top 6 table
-Fastest striker sprint table
-Number of sprints table
-Possession table
-Shots on target table
-Anything that can make ye feel better about your current position table

I'm not really interested in getting into that sort of an argument. Point is that it's a useful accumulation of data for those interested. Take it or leave it, I'm not really bothered either way

Trigger

LiamoSail wrote: »

I'm not really interested in getting into that sort of an argument. Point is that it's a useful accumulation of data for those interested. Take it or leave it, I'm not really bothered either way

We were having jokes with Niallo tbf so I doubt we(I’m sure most of the lads here are the same)really care about the origin of the much heralded alternative table

secman

astradave wrote: »

Having a crazy level and being crazy are 2 different things..

Hey Secman while you are here, who would be your realistic replacement for Jose if he was sacked tomorrow like you would like him to be and why?

God loves a trier Dave , you hang in there for the ride.

Trigger

secman wrote: »

God loves a trier Dave , you hang in there for the ride.

Was worth a shot are you ever going to answer me :pac:

LiamoSail

astradave wrote: »

We were having jokes with Niallo tbf so I doubt we(I’m sure most of the lads here are the same)really care about the origin of the much heralded alternative table

Someone specifically asked what it was and I replied, a fair assumption being they were interested given they had asked. Their post is quoted in my reply.

I'm not interested in this sort of nonsense. If you're not interested in the subject I'm specifically addressing, don't reply to my posts

Tylerdurex

Even if we could field a combined 11 of the 1999 and 2008 team with fergie in charge we would still find it tough to compete with this city side. Whilst we would have better individuals pep has redefined football as a team game

DM_7

Three managers, three differant ideas on how to play, who needed to be bought/kept, over 600 million spent, best player in that time is a goal keeper.

Signings by Moyes and Van Gaal:
Fellaini - moderate success under third manager - bit part player, out of contract in the summer
Mata - success - but squad player now

Herrera - success - squad player
Shaw - failure - reserve player, could be sold
Rojo - success - first team player during his second managers reign
Di Maria - massive failure - sold after one season
Falcoa - failure - loan ended after a season
Valdez - failure - free arrival, dumped by manager who signed him
Blind - moderate success - squad player

Darmian - moderate success- back up player
Memphis - failure - sold in a year and half
Schneiderlin - failure - sold in a year and a half
Schweinsteiger - failure - sold in a year and a half
Sergio Romero - success - back up keeper
Martial - moderate success, can be more- was he the type of 60 million player United needed at the time?

That is some mess. Within the context of Man Utd, Jose has taken the team in a good direction.

Could it be better, could it be more? Yes. Can people want more, for sure.

But what city are doing is not really relevant. City were in a differant place when they DECIDED to dump a league winning manager for Pep. They have a clearer direction over the last few years than United, it was not a rebuilding task like United.

Jose should be rated for his work and it should be based on where United were when he took over to where they are now. He is a season and a half(ish) into a rebuilding job.

bmcc10

Sooner city lose few games the better sick of hearing about them at this stage far from as invisible as everyone's making out too.

DM_7

bmcc10 wrote: »

Sooner city lose few games the better sick of hearing about them at this stage far from as invisible as everyone's making out too.

I actually think it is a good thing for United in the long run, even if they easily win the league. It will help Jose see who really wants to win, really wants to work to get to another level, set the team up for when Jose leaves at end of his current deal or further down the road.

At Inter, Jose had no competition so didn't leave them in a great place but at Chelsea and Real he created strong squads determined to win who did well even after he left.

bangkok

Tylerdurex wrote: »

Even if we could field a combined 11 of the 1999 and 2008 team with fergie in charge we would still find it tough to compete with this city side. Whilst we would have better individuals pep has redefined football as a team game

Dont be talking crap!! United in 99 and 08 were both better than this city team.

Combining a best 11 AND with fergie in charge we would be unstoppable

secman

bangkok wrote: »

Dont be talking crap!! United in 99 and 08 were both better than this city team.

Combining a best 11 AND with fergie in charge we would be unstoppable

SAF would revel in knocking city off their fcking perch and would wind Pep up no end.:)

bangkok

secman wrote: »

SAF would revel in knocking city off their fcking perch and would wind Pep up no end.:)

City arent on any perch yet

bmcc10

Them radio shows on BBC are awful fans ringing in looking mourinho sacked for not playing the "United way".

The negativity is ridiculous at this stage, Surely a lot of it comes from peoples dislike of mourniho instead of noticing the improvements made after the last 2 disasters we had in charge it will take a lot more than a season and a half to get us back on track.

Every single year under SAF united would grind out results like today's especially over the Christmas period was always hailed as getting the job done or this is what champions do, Granted we are miles of back then and having the team like back then but its almost like a myth this " United way" where it was free flowing attacking football every single game.

Least there's some sort of foundation been put in place under mourinho after the last 2 s**t shows we had to deal with, notice the improvements and stop been so negative.

GSPfan

I was one person calling the City game embarrassing and I admit I was pissed off at Jose and all his bollôx too. But today was grand. Not sure what people are getting grumpy about. We won. Apart from a late flurry I think we won quite easily too.

Tylerdurex

bangkok wrote: »

Dont be talking crap!! United in 99 and 08 were both better than this city team.

Combining a best 11 AND with fergie in charge we would be unstoppable

Some info for you . The 99 United team were 6 points worse off then the current United team at this stage during the 99 season . Also I won't stand for you calling my post crap just because I'm a new poster with an opinion that differs from yours . The evidence would suggest I'm right . We are 1 game away from midway through the season and they have dropped 2 points . This is unpresidented . It's never ever happened before . They are probably going to score the most goals ever in a season and total the most points ever

StringerBell

adox wrote: »

Well don’t watch it if you’re embarrassed.

The fùcking state of some of yis.

Post of the day surely?

FatherTed

Tylerdurex wrote: »

Some info for you . The 99 United team were 6 points worse off then the current United team at this stage during the 99 season . Also I won't stand for you calling my post crap just because I'm a new poster with an opinion that differs from yours . The evidence would suggest I'm right . We are 1 game away from midway through the season and they have dropped 2 points . This is unpresidented . It's never ever happened before . They are probably going to score the most goals ever in a season and total the most points ever

All they've done so far is the Best 18 game start to the Prem award. Come back when they've won the Prem 3 years in a row with a CL and FA Cup treble thrown in for good measure.

brinty

bangkok wrote: »

City arent on any perch yet

That’s my boy Bangkok
I’m damn proud of you son

StringerBell

Tylerdurex wrote: »

Some info for you . The 99 United team were 6 points worse off then the current United team at this stage during the 99 season . Also I won't stand for you calling my post crap just because I'm a new poster with an opinion that differs from yours . The evidence would suggest I'm right . We are 1 game away from midway through the season and they have dropped 2 points . This is unpresidented . It's never ever happened before . They are probably going to score the most goals ever in a season and total the most points ever

If they go the whole season unbeaten, scoring for fun and dropping very few points along the way they will have a claim to be the best team to ever grace the Premier League.

Until they actually achieve something though it is a pointless claim and one that simply can't be backed up right now.

This City team have a long way to go to match the 99 side tbh. The business end of the season is where the greats show themselves.

Shanotheslayer

StringerBell wrote: »

The business end of the season is where the greats show themselves.

The league will be over by then anyway :pac:

StringerBell

Shanotheslayer wrote: »

The league will be over by then anyway :pac:

Ok?

Giggsy11

Lukaku gets so much unfair ****. I'm not entirely sure whether he gets it here as I stopped reading posts from long time, just skim couple of pages. Anyways some stats on Lukaku.

Lord TSC

Lord TSC wrote: »

6 wins in our last seven games, I think they said on Sky.

And still, it's just negativity. Like, at some stage, if you're that angry at what's happening, it's on you to take a break....

2 of those wins were consecutive away wins to Arsenal and Watford, tricky enough fixtures which I didn't think we'd come through with 6 points. You can't really take those wins on the road for granted no matter what team you support, still some do.

PhlegmyMoses wrote: »

I have to believe that people saying they are embarrassed just don't know how to express what they are feeling, because if youre embarrassed watching a football match you need to have a word with yourself.

Of the words which get blown out of all proportion in this thread or just outright misused, 'embarrassed' has to be near the top of the list.

jayo26 wrote: »

Haha i dont see what the issue is the united players would do the same.

I actually thought 'About time, you cheeky buggers' when I heard about the City players and their chanting.

For years now we've watched City rise to be competitive and now dominant. All the way though, no matter how much they spent on their infrastructure or players, even winning the odd title, I still thought 'So what really? They're a completely vapid club with zero character or personality, the players may as well be playing for Anzi rather than City, for all they actually care'.

However, now I can (unfortunately) see the club develop some personality and character to go along with that investment in infrastructure and personnel. Those who could be perhaps at one-time labeled as care-free mercenaries (Aguero, D Silva, Kompany) have been there a long time at this stage. They could have left dreary Manchester at anytime for a change, but have stuck it out with that City project and are clearly passionate about the club.

I might feel differently if I heard a team of lucky youngsters chanting 'Park the bus, United', it wouldn't be earned. However, this cheekiness and a hint at personality from City is both earned and to be honest overdue at this stage.

beno619

Tylerdurex wrote: »

Even if we could field a combined 11 of the 1999 and 2008 team with fergie in charge we would still find it tough to compete with this city side. Whilst we would have better individuals pep has redefined football as a team game

Jesus H Christ.

Pep is doing what he’s done everywhere. Winning with a far superior group of attacking players than the rest of the teams in the division.

Liam McPoyle

FatherTed wrote: »

I've been a Manchester United fan since 1976 so I'll hardly stop watching United at this stage.

We are all fans, I am just sickened that we have to play second fiddle to Man City who have upped the threshold this season. Even though we are second, we are nowhere near their level in terms of consistent performance.

That's fair enough and I can completely understand where you are coming from however as I said in my last post, context is everything.

Jose took over a squad that was devoid of confidence with an awful lot of dross in it.

Pep took over the best squad in the league and has spent nearly half a billion Euro.

Obviously Jose has spent alot too but the fact is there were 7 players that started yesterday that were signed by Fergie. He has handled the likes of Rooneys exit superbly and there are still a number of these players that are not at the required level for a team with PL or CL aspirations.

We have made alot of progress in the last 2 seasons and I'm about 90% happy with where the team is right now. Some of the performances have been poor but in the main they have imo ranged from good to excellent.

We are far from the finished article but the spine of a super team is there. We need an out and out winger aswell as another CM (though id love to see McT get a shot at that spot) and I think over the next two windows we will see those players come in.

jaykay74

Tylerdurex wrote: »

Some info for you . The 99 United team were 6 points worse off then the current United team at this stage during the 99 season . Also I won't stand for you calling my post crap just because I'm a new poster with an opinion that differs from yours . The evidence would suggest I'm right . We are 1 game away from midway through the season and they have dropped 2 points . This is unpresidented . It's never ever happened before . They are probably going to score the most goals ever in a season and total the most points ever

Try winning the title 3 times in a row, a CL and a few cups and get back to me.

Mitch Connor

jaykay74 wrote: »

Try winning the title 3 times in a row, a CL and a few cups and get back to me.

That would be an argument for most successful team, not the best.

jaykay74

Mitch Connor wrote: »

That would be an argument for most successful team, not the best.

If the best team can be decided over an 18 game league stretch then fair enough.

Adamocovic

I know a lot aren't happy with performance but I'm just happy we got another 3 points. If we're winning games while not playing great I'm still happy.

Looking forward to cup this week. Hopefully Shaw gets a start and plays well. Also after watching what Palace did to Leicester would be hopeful we'll end up taking 3 points against them.

a lot of football in next few weeks but it's all against teams we should be expecting to get points form.

jayo26

This keeps POPPING up every so often and its still funny as it was first time.

PhlegmyMoses

Mitch Connor wrote: »

That would be an argument for most successful team, not the best.

Is there a difference?

Rayne Wooney

Can be a positive City are taking the píss out of us, the league has become a bit lifeless, that video is free motivation for any self respecting footballer, if I was manager I’d have that on a loop in the dressing room for the next 5 months and beyond.

I hope there is a lot of work going on behind the scenes, we are miles off City at the minute and we should be lining up players for next summer looking onto next season, because we need top quality.

Woodward seems to be getting off lightly, debatable whether another in his job would have done better, but really he hasn’t built a team capable of winning a major trophy despite spending a fortune. Better decisions need to be made.

PhlegmyMoses

We absolutely should be trying to improve our squad but I think everybody is losing sight of reality with this City team. They are on an excellent run, have played some excellent and some not excellent football but have managed to win all bar one of their games. This is an anomaly and they WILL regress to the mean. The league is literally as it should be when you look at fees and wages spent also, which is probably the greatest indicator of all. They probably should be slightly ahead of us taking all of that into account, the only outlier is the points tally.