Manchester United Thread..The Final Chapter of 17? (MOD WARNINGS IN OP)

Trigger

gstack166 wrote: »

😂😂 you clearly are bitter the way the season has gone for City compared to United. You’re fooling no one by saying different. I’d be the same, don’t know what the problem is in admitting it.

You obviously don’t know me then not bitter at all and I applaud City for their start of the season.. I’ve no problem also stating that the progress that Jose has made at the club has been great and another year the points they have would be top or extremely close to it so there is no point being bitter about it..

What I will say is that I won’t be replying to you again as I can see you for what you are, you openly slagged off United thread posters on the city thread.. you are here for one thing and one thing only, to wind up this thread by moving the goalposts and posting digs at Mourinho while you are passing tome waiting on a flight..

Adios *waves*

TheDoc

bucketybuck wrote: »

Thats one of the dumbest things I've ever heard.

Never mind the fact that Pep would probably just leave Rashford on the bench the same way he did to Aguero, or sold the same as Iheanacho, is the implication supposed to be that Pep would drop Lukaku and play Rashford up front instead?

Like most Mourinho criticisms, quotes like that make for good soundbites but don't stand up to any analysis or fact checking whatsoever. I mean, Rashford has 11 goals and 5 assists this season and all while rotating with Martial. Great defender indeed.

More apt would be stating Pep would likely develop Rashford and make him better. All just speculative anyway. The Mourinho critique against him and attackers or young players might be one that annoys you or something worthy or debate, but I've long since just come to accept it. There is no smoke without fire to be honest and it didnt take long of last season for me to realise why it's a shtick he gets beat with.

While Rashfords stats are pretty good, and that is 100% credit to him and him alone, I don't see him developing in anyway shape or form or becoming better out on the left, or making any steps.

We are benefiting from two high quality players pushing each other to start games, but there is a point of general discussion about is Rashford actually getting better or learning, as the manager outlined, from his time on the left.

Personally I'm not seeing it. Only for the fact he is dovetailing wonderfully with Martial more often then not, it was actually completely passed over he was pretty rotten for a few weeks there.

Probably be painted as me whinging about the manager as usual, but considering Jose was crying over a pretty bang average 29 yr old in Ivan Perisic, if the manage had any nous he would probably appreciate Rashford could easily be trained into a proper old school right winger. He has a great delivery, he has pace and a trick and a great engine. If this "genuine right winger" is the missing piece he made out, then just go make one. It's not rocket science. Or play a formation that allows a striker to actually help Lukaku, so he isn't just being humped balls more often then not, being totally isolated, against brutal opposition. Even moreso against good opposition.

I adore Juan Mata but he has no place in this team the manager is building. The quicker he ****s and gets of the pot in terms of putting down some sure things in terms of the attack the more it can learn and get used to each other, cause its obvious there is no tactical instruction happening.

The lack of service to Lukaku was ridiculous yesterday. The problem, as it has been since Van Gaal, is the supply line between the midfield and striker. It's just not reliable and it's more often then not just utterly void of any idea of what to do.

PhlegmyMoses

Time to unsub from the thread for a while. Jumps the shark every few months and today is one of those days.

TheDoc

astradave wrote: »

You obviously don’t know me then not bitter at all and I applaud City for their start of the season.. I’ve no problem also stating that the progress that Jose has made at the club has been great and another year the points they have would be top or extremely close to it so there is no point being bitter about it..

What I will say is that I won’t be replying to you again as I can see you for what you are, you openly slagged off United thread posters on the city thread.. you are here for one thing and one thing only, to wind up this thread by moving the goalposts and posting digs at Mourinho while you are passing tome waiting on a flight..

Adios *waves*

In fairness Davey there is probably no other rival fan that can be easier ignored than a City fan?

gstack166

astradave wrote: »

You obviously don’t know me then not bitter at all and I applaud City for their start of the season.. I’ve no problem also stating that the progress that Jose has made at the club has been great and another year the points they have would be top or extremely close to it so there is no point being bitter about it..

What I will say is that I won’t be replying to you again as I can see you for what you are, you openly slagged off United thread posters on the city thread.. you are here for one thing and one thing only, to wind up this thread by moving the goalposts and posting digs at Mourinho while you are passing tome waiting on a flight..

Adios *waves*

You do what you want son 😂 It was hardly slagging people off now come on 😂 worse was said to me in the few posts I put up here. Why you being so sensitive? I posted no dig at Mourinho. That tweet I referenced it as being from Curtis Woodhouse. The only thing I said, was he sold KDB & Salah 🀦ðŸ»*♂️ I apologise for that so mate if it means you won’t talk to me otherwise. 😂

gstack166

TheDoc wrote: »

In fairness Davey there is probably no other rival fan that can be easier ignored than a City fan?

Yet you are unable to do it 😂

bangkok

PhlegmyMoses wrote: »

Time to unsub from the thread for a while. Jumps the shark every few months and today is one of those days.

how long is a while, a few hours, days, weeks?

just i see others say they are leaving as well and some are back the same day

pjohnson

astradave wrote: »

You obviously don’t know me then not bitter at all and I applaud City for their start of the season.. I’ve no problem also stating that the progress that Jose has made at the club has been great and another year the points they have would be top or extremely close to it so there is no point being bitter about it..

What I will say is that I won’t be replying to you again as I can see you for what you are, you openly slagged off United thread posters on the city thread.. you are here for one thing and one thing only, to wind up this thread by moving the goalposts and posting digs at Mourinho while you are passing tome waiting on a flight..

Adios *waves*

I somewhat prefer its an opposition fan taking bad digs and moving goalposts rather than what happened yesterday when two camps of United fans were quabbling. It at least gets the United fans in agreement on something. Which doesnt often happen.

jayo26

bangkok wrote: »

how long is a while, a few hours, days, weeks?

just i see others say they are leaving as well and some are back the same day

A while is a while don't be so pedantic ya little sh1t

Trigger

bangkok wrote: »

how long is a while, a few hours, days, weeks?

just i see others say they are leaving as well and some are back the same day

Well I left for a few days to get away from you and came back for the midweek match :pac:

bangkok

jayo26 wrote: »

A while is a while don't be so pedantic ya little sh1t

:P:P:P:P

jayo26

astradave wrote: »

Well I left for a few days to get away from you and came back for the midweek match :pac:

Tell the truth ur the same as all of us ya missed him really the annoying little bugger.

bangkok

gstack166 wrote: »

You do what you want son �� It was hardly slagging people off now come on �� worse was said to me in the few posts I put up here. Why you being so sensitive? I posted no dig at Mourinho. That tweet I referenced it as being from Curtis Woodhouse. The only thing I said, was he sold KDB & Salah ��ðŸ»*♂️ I apologise for that so mate if it means you won’t talk to me otherwise. ��

is that some sort of egyptian hieroglyphic??

pjohnson

bangkok wrote: »

is that some sort of egyptian hieroglyphic??

Thank fuck. I thought it was just me getting some daft blob symbol thing.

TheDoc

TheDoc wrote: »

More apt would be stating Pep would likely develop Rashford and make him better. All just speculative anyway. The Mourinho critique against him and attackers or young players might be one that annoys you or something worthy or debate, but I've long since just come to accept it. There is no smoke without fire to be honest and it didnt take long of last season for me to realise why it's a shtick he gets beat with.

While Rashfords stats are pretty good, and that is 100% credit to him and him alone, I don't see him developing in anyway shape or form or becoming better out on the left, or making any steps.

We are benefiting from two high quality players pushing each other to start games, but there is a point of general discussion about is Rashford actually getting better or learning, as the manager outlined, from his time on the left.

Personally I'm not seeing it. Only for the fact he is dovetailing wonderfully with Martial more often then not, it was actually completely passed over he was pretty rotten for a few weeks there.

Probably be painted as me whinging about the manager as usual, but considering Jose was crying over a pretty bang average 29 yr old in Ivan Perisic, if the manage had any nous he would probably appreciate Rashford could easily be trained into a proper old school right winger. He has a great delivery, he has pace and a trick and a great engine. If this "genuine right winger" is the missing piece he made out, then just go make one. It's not rocket science. Or play a formation that allows a striker to actually help Lukaku, so he isn't just being humped balls more often then not, being totally isolated, against brutal opposition. Even moreso against good opposition.

I adore Juan Mata but he has no place in this team the manager is building. The quicker he ****s and gets of the pot in terms of putting down some sure things in terms of the attack the more it can learn and get used to each other, cause its obvious there is no tactical instruction happening.

The lack of service to Lukaku was ridiculous yesterday. The problem, as it has been since Van Gaal, is the supply line between the midfield and striker. It's just not reliable and it's more often then not just utterly void of any idea of what to do.

Hang on is it the coaching, the personnel(supply line) or players not being played in the position you want. your a bit all over the shop in your critisism today.

Also can a young player not go through a bad patch I remember last season Jesus was so highly thought of he was like the 2nd coming of some biblical character who's name escapes me

He hasn't exactly played great of late and was quite poor against us has Pep stalled his progression i wonder maybe he is next on the list to be sold to Leicister

pjohnson

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Hang on is it the coaching, the personnel(supply line) or players not being played in the position you want. your a bit all over the shop in your critisism today.

Also can a young player not go through a bad patch I remember last season Jesus was so highly thought of he was like the 2nd coming of some biblical character who's name escapes me

He hasn't exactly played great of late and was quite poor against us has Pep stalled his progression i wonder maybe he is next on the list to be sold to Leicister

Djemba Djemba

jayo26

bangkok wrote: »

is that some sort of egyptian hieroglyphic??

لا أعرف ما لديك على حوالي


#حقير

posturingpat

Sometimes you have to question the age and mental stability of people on here.

Trigger

bangkok wrote: »

is that some sort of egyptian hieroglyphic??

When did learn those big words

Trigger

posturingpat wrote: »

Sometimes you have to question the age and mental stability of people on here.

#foreveryoung

bangkok

astradave wrote: »

When did learn those big words

when i moved out of my cave :P

Lord TSC

Don't think this was posted. A comparison of where teams are this year compared to others with 17 games played.

bangkok

jayo26 wrote: »

لا أعرف ما لديك على حوالي


#حقير

กรุงเทพมหานคร อมรรัตนโกสินทร์ มหินทรายุธยา มหาดิลกภพ นพรัตนราชธานีบูรีรมย์ อุดมราชนิเวศน์มหาสถาน อมรพิมานอวตารสถิต สักกะทัตติยวิษณุกรรมประสิทธิ์

#สถิต

Mitch Connor

shows how beastly City are this year. They'd have been 11 points clear of Leicster, who were in first place, the year they went on to win the title.

Its freakishly amazing from City.

Trigger

Mitch Connor wrote: »

shows how beastly City are this year. They'd have been 11 points clear of Leicster, who were in first place, the year they went on to win the title.

Its freakishly amazing from City.

And still be ahead of record setting(win streak) Chelsea by 6 points.. they are crazy..

Mitch Connor

The also points to why i'm not that angry about being 11 points off them. I am annoyed by our performances vs Liverpool and City, but in terms of points - we are only about 4 points off where I would have liked us to be at this stage at the start of the season - if aiming for the title.

Obviously that would still have us 7 points off but City's form and results are just insane.

Huddersfield and Liverpool are the two big results/performances this season that i'm annoyed about.

TheDoc

Will break this out

Deleted User wrote: »

Hang on is it the coaching, the personnel(supply line) or players not being played in the position you want. your a bit all over the shop in your critisism today.

Well I guess it's surely all three? It's probably more. There isn't a silver bullet to it really.

Speaking specifically about Rashford. He is now a season and a half into playing from the left. Can we see any noticeable or tangible development in terms of his game? Anything that wasn't there when he burst on the scene?

I'm not being weird in this, or baiting a response. I genuinely don't see anything. He looks pretty much the same as he did this time last season. If there is something I've overlooked or don't understand or anything I'm asking.

I should prefix by saying he is a quality player. Operating at generally a pretty high level. My concern is the same for when he was shunted out there in the first place. So a decision was required on him being a striker, starting or reserve, or crowbarring him into the team somewhere. The manager decided he isn't good enough to lead the line but is too good to sit on the bench, so he has been thrown on the left.

The next decision, is if this is a temporary measure to help him learn and grow, or if his actual future under this manager is in that position. I think at this point we can safely say Jose does not see Rashford as a striker, albeit slotting in when required, but he is a left sided player.

So when he stated it was for his development, what are we tangibly seeing Rashford learn or perform from that side, that he wasn't doing already or looks improved.

This feeds into my thinking that a)Mourinho doesn't know how to coach attacking play and b) Jose doesn't know how to develop young players properly.

We can argue the toss on it, it's painted as the "media narrative" or something his critics say, but I actually believe it to be true regardless of the questionable evidence that appears. And I consider it questionable, because I guess my read of the situation is different. Not sure its something I'll be converted on or changed on.

This feeds into the general issue of constructing the attacking patters and play in my view, as we have a 20 year old (in my opinion) being sent out with instructions or just figure it out in terms of the final third. I think that is a lot to ask of any young player, regardless of talent.

Also can a young player not go through a bad patch

Yeah that is fine and actually expected. Sorry when I posted about his dip in form not being discussed, it was in reference to how we are being lucky that Martial is dovetailing and its kinda not a problem. If both were in the ****, or we only had one, it would likely be more of a problem.

A bit like the problem on the right hand side, where really, I don't actually comprahend or understand what is being attempted.

He hasn't exactly played great of late and was quite poor against us has Pep stalled his progression i wonder maybe he is next on the list to be sold to Leicister

The Jesus point isn't something I made. Although taking your point, it's also worth noting that Pep dropped Aguero, one of the consistently best strikers in world football, the clubs greatest striker, to put this kid straight in while Aguero worked on what was required, or whatever. To be honest personally I thought Pep was mad the way he went on with Aguero.

Do we see Jose dropping Lukaku for Martial or Rashford? Did we see it last season with Ibrahimovic. Nope. So on that end of things, we arn't developing Rashford or Martial in that role (and for me either could be an incredible striker for us).

What Pep did do, and still does, is identify games where they can both play together, as a genuine strike partnership. Think we've seen Lukaku partnered with Martial/Rashford once or twice? Last season maybe the same?

Look I get why the manager isn't doing it, but eventually, he needs to make a call on Martial and Rashford. He either genuinely believes they will be the clubs future strikers or they are going to be left sided players. One will eventually not settle to playing second fiddle, they are both too good. So eventually, should the current situation continue, one of them is leaving the club. And I think that is rubbish, as they are both brilliant players.

jayo26

bangkok wrote: »

กรุงเทพมหานคร อมรรัตนโกสินทร์ มหินทรายุธยา มหาดิลกภพ นพรัตนราชธานีบูรีรมย์ อุดมราชนิเวศน์มหาสถาน อมรพิมานอวตารสถิต สักกะทัตติยวิษณุกรรมประสิทธิ์

#สถิต

That's the most sense I've read from you in years.

TheDoc

Mitch Connor wrote: »

shows how beastly City are this year. They'd have been 11 points clear of Leicster, who were in first place, the year they went on to win the title.

Its freakishly amazing from City.

Pet peave I'm having with this charts and the general narrative taking place, is that it's making out like we play City every week.

This is a poor premier league, with a lot of very poor teams. Us not being closer or challenging is a failing on our part, not because of City.

Other viewpoints is just excuse hunting, in my opinion.

As I keep saying, the end justifies the means, but there is just too much excuses all the time. Last year it was dumping the league to focus on the Europa league and we didn't have the squad, now it's City are just incredible and there is more talk of the squad not being good enough.

It is genuinelly no doubt an incredible City performance thus far and it's so ominous. But I guess if your like me and didn't buy into the "Pep found out" stuff last year, that was doing the rounds, you would have expected this coming. He's the best manager and coach in world football bar none. He was going to get it right, just how right he has got it, yeah, **** me.

But like I said, we don't play City every week. That this is the best start to a season we have had post Fergie, with some of the poor performances and results, just goes to show how dross the league is from about 7th down.

paulbok

jayo26 wrote: »

That's the most sense I've read from you in years.

It's the language of Mordor written in Elvish.

TheDoc

As a separate point, going to keep to myself with some **** going forward. Clearly not worth it since it seems to upset people who either just want to not hear a different opinion, and opinion they feel wrong or just are those United like fans in school who won't hear a bad word ever said. I won't say I'm blameless in of course I have some obscure, ludicrous or incorrect opinions. But I sometimes I feel annoyed at the lengths I go to have a chat with someone who has a point I don't agree with or understand and want to learn about, even just to re-affirm my initial thought. But to get things back just not even attempting to engage(Adox frequently) is just deflating and annoying. I don't pretend like I know everything, and would like to think that I portray a general style, when it comes to the heavy stuff, of being open to alternative opinion or being informed from another party.

But I've genuinely no issue in admitting, and being comfortable in saying, certain things, results and performances actually embarrass me, as a fan of a football club. Calling it "just a game" is a bit of a cop out to be honest. It's what generates caring and enthusiasm.

Watching a 40m+ midfielder, as part of one of the most expensive squads ever assembled in football, get booked for time wasting, against a team second from bottom and genuinely brutal, was a cause for embarrassment for me. Maybe I'm just too much into my football and let the team affect me too much(I know this already) but then I'm passionate about things I care about, otherwise I wouldn't.

I definitely probably should avoid getting involved in the thread immediately post match, and come back on a Monday when I've had time to mull things over. My managerial critiscm is always too barbarous as I immediately blame Mourinho for everything. It's no secret I dislike him, I think he's a ****, and I can't wait for when he's gone. If that taints people view on my opinion then so be it to be honest. I can't remain impartial with him, because I just dislike how he operates, how he manages and what he does with team. I still on reflection felt the last 20 minutes was pathetic and a cause for concern as this team can't generate momentum and everytime a corner is felt turned, it grinds somewhat to a near halt. Maybe the expectations I have are just not right for this sort of manager where the end all and be all is the result?

Anyway sorry for anyones nose I put out of joint yesterday as I knew myself I was being flippant in my posting and ragey at what I saw. I won't however apologise for portraying what I feel as my opinions, as stupid or ridiculous, bias or unfound in reality you feel they are, and if that causes you to exit the thread, then maybe a discussion forum isn't for you. I'm not going to let people point to me as a reason for an exit. As much as I can rail against the majority or the reality with certain things, I make best efforts and try to be respectful of others and their posts. I'm typically at loggerheads with other posters, Adox is a frequent example along with Pro.F when he/she was here, but I'm happy with how I conduct myself in those interactions sticking the point and not getting personal or making assumptions about the person behind the text.

Mitch Connor

TheDoc wrote: »

Pet peave I'm having with this charts and the general narrative taking place, is that it's making out like we play City every week.

This is a poor premier league, with a lot of very poor teams. Us not being closer or challenging is a failing on our part, not because of City.

Other viewpoints is just excuse hunting, in my opinion.

As I keep saying, the end justifies the means, but there is just too much excuses all the time. Last year it was dumping the league to focus on the Europa league and we didn't have the squad, now it's City are just incredible and there is more talk of the squad not being good enough.

It is genuinelly no doubt an incredible City performance thus far and it's so ominous. But I guess if your like me and didn't buy into the "Pep found out" stuff last year, that was doing the rounds, you would have expected this coming. He's the best manager and coach in world football bar none. He was going to get it right, just how right he has got it, yeah, **** me.

But like I said, we don't play City every week. That this is the best start to a season we have had post Fergie, with some of the poor performances and results, just goes to show how dross the league is from about 7th down.

I'll just never go into a season expecting us to beat every team, every match. I expect off days, unlucky days and grounded out results.

I wish would could be as dominating as City have been, and there really isn't anything stopping us from being so - we could buy the players required (and hope Jose can get them ticking), but I genuinely think points wise we are about where I would have liked us to be at the start of the season.

I would have expected City to have dropped more than 2 points.

Rayne Wooney

Also talking about replacing Mourinho is mental, every myth bandied about when he got the job has been busted, no youth? No attacking? Give it a rest.

The simple fact is no manager in the world would have this group of players any closer to City, we lack the quality.

While I wouldn’t be giving Mourinho a new contract he definitely deserves the next 3 transfer windows to try and get us back winning majors. Summer 2019 is the time to let him go if things haven’t worked. Though you’d think if Mourinho fails, it raises the question will anyone be able to get us back to the top.

jayo26

TheDoc wrote: »

As a separate point, going to keep to myself with some **** going forward. Clearly not worth it since it seems to upset people who either just want to not hear a different opinion, and opinion they feel wrong or just are those United like fans in school who won't hear a bad word ever said. I won't say I'm blameless in of course I have some obscure, ludicrous or incorrect opinions. But I sometimes I feel annoyed at the lengths I go to have a chat with someone who has a point I don't agree with or understand and want to learn about, even just to re-affirm my initial thought. But to get things back just not even attempting to engage(Adox frequently) is just deflating and annoying. I don't pretend like I know everything, and would like to think that I portray a general style, when it comes to the heavy stuff, of being open to alternative opinion or being informed from another party.

But I've genuinely no issue in admitting, and being comfortable in saying, certain things, results and performances actually embarrass me, as a fan of a football club. Calling it "just a game" is a bit of a cop out to be honest. It's what generates caring and enthusiasm.

Watching a 40m+ midfielder, as part of one of the most expensive squads ever assembled in football, get booked for time wasting, against a team second from bottom and genuinely brutal, was a cause for embarrassment for me. Maybe I'm just too much into my football and let the team affect me too much(I know this already) but then I'm passionate about things I care about, otherwise I wouldn't.

I definitely probably should avoid getting involved in the thread immediately post match, and come back on a Monday when I've had time to mull things over. My managerial critiscm is always too barbarous as I immediately blame Mourinho for everything. It's no secret I dislike him, I think he's a ****, and I can't wait for when he's gone. If that taints people view on my opinion then so be it to be honest. I can't remain impartial with him, because I just dislike how he operates, how he manages and what he does with team. I still on reflection felt the last 20 minutes was pathetic and a cause for concern as this team can't generate momentum and everytime a corner is felt turned, it grinds somewhat to a near halt. Maybe the expectations I have are just not right for this sort of manager where the end all and be all is the result?

Anyway sorry for anyones nose I put out of joint yesterday as I knew myself I was being flippant in my posting and ragey at what I saw. I won't however apologise for portraying what I feel as my opinions, as stupid or ridiculous, bias or unfound in reality you feel they are, and if that causes you to exit the thread, then maybe a discussion forum isn't for you. I'm not going to let people point to me as a reason for an exit. As much as I can rail against the majority or the reality with certain things, I make best efforts and try to be respectful of others and their posts. I'm typically at loggerheads with other posters, Adox is a frequent example along with Pro.F when he/she was here, but I'm happy with how I conduct myself in those interactions sticking the point and not getting personal or making assumptions about the person behind the text.

Doc I don't speak for everyone in here but you are a valued poster to the forum and you go to length to explain your views so you are respected for that most certainly from my end anyway.

The issue a lot of us had recently was snide comments coming from "new" posters or posters that don't want to back up there opinions.

From your own views on our excuse making and not playing city every week it's not a cop out that we were pointing out what city have done and there is noway this premierleague Is that much weaker then we have had recently an example of that is all five champions league clubs made it true their groups and arsenal are also threw their group in europa.

Spurs the sixth place team in the league won their group that included the European champions.

We all want to be winning the league and most are disappointed but there is no point in ignoring that we have improved an awful lot results wise in the space of a year.

Myself I'm disappointed at times how we play too but I'm willing to accept it for longer term better team nd results.

beno619

TheDoc wrote: »

Probably be painted as me whinging about the manager as usual, but considering Jose was crying over a pretty bang average 29 yr old in Ivan Perisic, if the manage had any nous he would probably appreciate Rashford could easily be trained into a proper old school right winger. He has a great delivery, he has pace and a trick and a great engine. If this "genuine right winger" is the missing piece he made out, then just go make one. It's not rocket science. Or play a formation that allows a striker to actually help Lukaku, so he isn't just being humped balls more often then not, being totally isolated, against brutal opposition. Even moreso against good opposition.

When did Mourinho winge over Peresic ?

Your timing of the your criticism is funny considering we’ve just come out of a run of games where Martial has started up from with Lukaku.

Why on earth would you attempt to turn a goal scorer into an old fashioned winger when an inside forward role makes far more sense ?

Where were the high standards and expectations when LVG was our manager ? It would have saved a lot of arguments back then tbh.

I’m glad we’re all on the same page with regards to expectations at United but Jose is getting a ridiculously rough ride in here.

Adamocovic

I for one welcome our new thread posters!

Drumpot

TheDoc wrote: »

Pet peave I'm having with this charts and the general narrative taking place, is that it's making out like we play City every week.

This is a poor premier league, with a lot of very poor teams. Us not being closer or challenging is a failing on our part, not because of City.

Other viewpoints is just excuse hunting, in my opinion.

As I keep saying, the end justifies the means, but there is just too much excuses all the time. Last year it was dumping the league to focus on the Europa league and we didn't have the squad, now it's City are just incredible and there is more talk of the squad not being good enough.

It is genuinelly no doubt an incredible City performance thus far and it's so ominous. But I guess if your like me and didn't buy into the "Pep found out" stuff last year, that was doing the rounds, you would have expected this coming. He's the best manager and coach in world football bar none. He was going to get it right, just how right he has got it, yeah, **** me.

But like I said, we don't play City every week. That this is the best start to a season we have had post Fergie, with some of the poor performances and results, just goes to show how dross the league is from about 7th down.

You have 5 English teams in last 16 and a good chance they might make up nearly half the quarter finals. I’m not sure when , In the last 5 years, the league last looked this strong in Europe.

There seems to be a correlation with champions league football and Chelsea who didn’t have to worry about that last season. They have dropped 10 points of their 16 around champions league games. I’d say we could see a similar trend for other clubs (spurs topping a tough group).

Somebody mentioned it already, the Huddersfield and Liverpool games were very dissapointing. I suppose a question to ask is “what is a reasonable expectation for this season?”. If we put football style (versus top sides) aside for the moment, what would be an acceptable season of progress? 2nd and champions league quarter final?

If United were more expansive in big games during the season but finished third would people prefer that?

You would hope that we wouldn’t have to choose between the two but Jose obviously doesn’t feel he has all the pieces he needs to be attacking in the bigger games. I don’t like it one bit but I think we all know that this is very much a trait of the manager.

Sebastian Dangerfield

You'd swear from reading on here that the idea of playing a quick forward player in a wide position is completely unique to United. Samuel Eto'o did it very well when asked. Even a less mobile, target man like Mario Mandzukic has done it well. Not every forward is a 30 goal a season man but they can still have qualities that can be utilised at the top levels.

Ask Rashford whether he wants to play on the left or sit on the bench til Lukaku needs a rest. I'm pretty sure he'd take the former. He's on record as saying he wants to build experience in all of the forward positions.

As for Rashford not having developed, he's on target to match last years total in half the season. He has added set pieces to his game over the last few months and looks a much more mature player when on form. Yes his form is patchy, but he's only played 60 odd games.

TheDoc

Mitch Connor wrote: »

I'll just never go into a season expecting us to beat every team, every match. I expect off days, unlucky days and grounded out results.

I wish would could be as dominating as City have been, and there really isn't anything stopping us from being so - we could buy the players required (and hope Jose can get them ticking), but I genuinely think points wise we are about where I would have liked us to be at the start of the season.

I would have expected City to have dropped more than 2 points.

That is a pretty fair point in fairness. They have been relentless.

But I guess I don't see it as a total surprise. There has basically been an arms race between City and ourselves for sometime now, trying to coax and sign the best players, the best managers.

While other clubs might point to money spent or whatever, there is literally no excuse I believe from our end of things. Chelsea fans have genuine potential issues and qualms. Still spent a bit mind you. Totenham fans have genuine excuses. Arsenal have genuine excuses, Liverpool have excuses.

When I look at us, and while I don't know the exact figures of the top of my head, I imagine both managers have spent about the same money, have had relatively strong squads to begin with, and just gone about things somewhat differently in terms of what they bought and the money spent.

That's actually been a surprising factor for me. As one probably question that hung over Pep for me was his recruitment. I don't think it was historically as good as Jose, with a fair few duds and weird buys. Bernado Silva for example at present I'm still a bit like "why did you buy him" and I look at their midfield and its so lightweight in terms of strength and depth.

While you might not have expectations of beating every team, you surely came into this season, like I did, expecting a title challenge? Expecting the manager to have a clearer idea how to the team should play, buying adequately and purposefully to implement that vision and idea?

I probably would have said during the summer, barring mitigating circumstances. And perhaps City's incredible run is a mitigating factor to be honest. At the same time, I prefer looking inward first. And it's probably my "Jose" thing where I don't like how he just escapes some obvious criticism.

But surely we all expected to come into the season challenging for the title, with a manager renowned in his second season and expected this team, containing some serious expensive players, to be a lot more jointed, coherent and dominant then what we have seen.

I'm not at present going to throw my hands up and call it a disgrace. But it's extremely disappointing to be this far behind, with the title looking out of sight already. And we only have ourselves to blame for that, with slack performances and silly dropped points, that had nothing to do with City. If anything you'd imagine their form would have been a benchmark and one of those "can't afford a slip lads, look at them" something I've heard former United players talk about would be said in the dressing room.

I'm actually not as gloomy (despite assumptions) about how things have panned out. It's annoying dont get me wrong, but I think we could do good things in the CL. But a big concern I have is we will be like a wet sponge against the bigger teams unless we develop some form of notion when it comes to attacking.

TheDoc

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

Also talking about replacing Mourinho is mental

I havn't seen, heard or read anyone suggesting or implying he should be replaced. Where is this coming from?

every myth bandied about when he got the job has been busted, no youth? No attacking? Give it a rest.

You saying the myth is busted, doesn't dispel a myth.

I've put forward a post outlining I don't feel there is any tangible improvement in Rashford(granted an already quality player) from his stint on the left, and I won't even start on Martial, because I think he should be an absolute monster that is very inconsistent and blustery under this manager.

Luke Shaw is becoming the latest example that puts fire to the flames of the "Jose and youth" myth. Talked about it loads before, actually no tangible indication of what the problem is, just the manager indicating he isn't ready.

Us scoring a lot of goals does not equate to a coach who knows how to attack. I know that sounds ABSOLUTELY MENTAL but when I watch us play, it looks very much like the players working the problems out as opposed to any noticeable pattern or strategy. I'd have concerns in a game that is now so meticulous, where defences are so well organised, surely the offensive side of the game needs the same attention?

The simple fact is no manager in the world would have this group of players any closer to City, we lack the quality.

While I wouldn’t be giving Mourinho a new contract he definitely deserves the next 3 transfer windows to try and get us back winning majors.

You won't give him a new contract, but provide him endless funds should he ask? I know that is counter intuitive but I actually probably agree with you. This craic and fuss he is making over his contract is quintessential why I don't like Mourinho and why he might find favour runs out quicker then he thinks if some of the performances continue and he is standing empty handed come end of season.

Summer 2019 is the time to let him go if things haven’t worked. Though you’d think if Mourinho fails, it raises the question will anyone be able to get us back to the top.

A club like ours and our size won't be shy of getting in top managers. I would hope that after Jose's messing and flirting with PSG, Ed is wise to this, and contingency plans are already getting put in place identifying our next manager, a) in the event Jose jumps ship or b) he needs replacing this summer coming, or the following.

The post Ferguson era has being painful in terms of making it obvious the club requires an actual plan and can't continue jumping between managers who have drastically different outlooks on style, playing staff etc.

Jayop

Bristol on Wednesday followed by 3 premier league games in a week over Xmas. Bristol are in good form. 3rd int he Championship and on the back of 4 wins on the bounce. I'd be wary of them as a banana skin but we should get past them and at this stage of the comp we should be targeting it as potential silverware given the league already looks gone and realistically this side isn't going to win a CL this season leaving only the two cups.

Would you play Pogba tonight or keep him fresh for the upcoming league games??

I'd like to see...

Romero
Darmian - Tuanzebe - Lindelof - Blind - Shaw
Herrera - McTominay
Lingard - Martial - Rashford

Maybe have Gomes on the bench and try to give him a run out to celebrate his new contract if things are going well.

TheDoc

beno619 wrote: »

When did Mourinho winge over Peresic ?

Thought I recall his mouthpiece Castles having a few pieces that he was extremely unhappy at how the deal was being done and the slowness, and again when it came to contract messing that he was pretty pissed about the Perisic deal. At this point I'd assume it's widely accepted Castles = Mourinho with what he wants in the public no?

Your timing of the your criticism is funny considering we’ve just come out of a run of games where Martial has started up from with Lukaku.

I missed Bourenmouth, was that an actual Martial Lukaku partnership? There was none at the weekend against West Brom, and I don't think I've seen it much to be honest. Martial or Rashford roaming centrally isn't really playing two up front.

Why on earth would you attempt to turn a goal scorer into an old fashioned winger when an inside forward role makes far more sense ?

Well we clearly have an issue on that right side. It chops and changes. It's a bit of a dummy position we have Valencia cover with his monster engine basically utilising the space whilst Mata or Lingard drift inside.

But I guess from my end, so much was made about Perisic, and so much about him wanting a wide right sided winger to somehow implement what he wants (And I appreciate thats coming from my interpretation of his comments and pieces written and might not be yours) that he could likely easy re-purpose Rashford for that role. He has all the key attributes.

And really, he should potentially look into that anyway. We have a striker who absolutely feeds immensely of crosses, is getting **** all service, and from our left side, we have two players who can whip a ball, but need to typically cut back first. Rashford playing on the right could be a solution, if he so wants. His justifications and arguments against doing so(when questioned) have also been indication that I don't believe the attackers get coached in patterns or moves.

Where were the high standards and expectations when LVG was our manager ? It would have saved a lot of arguments back then tbh.

I liked Van Gaal. Really liked him. Really rated him. He got my goodwill because I just thought he was brilliant and really liked him as a person and manager. sure the football was ****e at times, but he bought my goodwill with some great wins and performances. And there was the hope that if he could get "a Van Gaal" classic style and team in place, I'd love that.

I probably also had a more patience with Van Gaal based on the signings and the fact he was rescuing us from Moyes. Someone else I also backed if I'm honest to a fair old point. So maybe I just broke/changed at different times to everyone else. But I know my patience will wear a lot thinner and quicker with Mourinho then Van Gaal, for definite.

There is nothing in Mourinho's locker or repertoire that excites me. I've seen all he can do, there is nothing I'm waiting for here. What I'm seeing or have seen is it. There is nothing else to come bar maybe being more consistent. He's not going to surprise me. Hence why he doesn't have a lot of credit in the bank with me. And like I said, I didn't like him or take to him from the day he streeled down OT with Porto. I'm just being consistent in thinking he is and always will be a prick I don't like or have time for, and unfortunatley now have to see and listen to each and every week.

I’m glad we’re all on the same page with regards to expectations at United but Jose is getting a ridiculously rough ride in here.

In fairness I don't think he does. It's mainly me, maybe a few others. I don't think anyone goes into the details of their thoughts as I do. I think he is getting a wonderful, full support from the majority of fans. He has my support to in terms of being Manchester United manager. Hard to quantify in text but I hope people get that, while I dislike him, can't wait until I don't have to see him again, I support him as our manager in the sense I wouldn't twist or generate stuff to call for him sacked or replaced. I know I have to support and put up with him through gritted teeth. And it's the sort of deal with the devil, for the club sliding so quickly.

The reason I posted earlier I'll keep somethings to myself, is because I keep getting taken a back by how quickly rail on me with certain things about him. Basically the only person I have is Ken Early, who is about the only person I know who hates him more than me

TheDoc

Drumpot wrote: »

You have 5 English teams in last 16 and a good chance they might make up nearly half the quarter finals. I’m not sure when , In the last 5 years, the league last looked this strong in Europe.

I did mention from about 7th down. There is some absolute garbage teams in the league this year. So many clubs in this weird limbo where they are freaked of relegation with all the money, so hire, fire, invest, change their squads and go in this weird little merry go round where none of them can actually do anything.

There is a lot of poor teams this season, when typically, in any given season, there is about 5. There is easily 10 average to muck teams in the league by modern standards.

Somebody mentioned it already, the Huddersfield and Liverpool games were very dissapointing. I suppose a question to ask is “what is a reasonable expectation for this season?”. If we put football style (versus top sides) aside for the moment, what would be an acceptable season of progress? 2nd and champions league quarter final?

I do quantify my posts in terms of expectations about Jose, being the end justifies the means. That's I guess fine. I say guess, as for me personally I've issues with how we approach big games, certain games, and just the incoherence of it all.

2nd in the league and a CL Quarter final if I was asked in the summer, I would have said was a good half of the season.

But having witnessed what has transpired, feels like again we've blown the league with only ourselves to blame.

So season ending expectations are for then, end of season. But we surely have expectations that take place throughout, be it what we expect of a player, or players, how we play, performances, results etc. I think that's ok to talk about and be annoyed about as the season progress' without the response being "omg we are second what more do you want", well maybe I want more then capitulating to ****ing West Brom

If United were more expansive in big games during the season but finished third would people prefer that?

I'm not a "results" person. I wasn't always like that, but I changed. When I was younger I used to think the result is all that mattered and to a certain extent is it all that matters. I just take some enjoyment and queues out of other things during the course of a game too. Some I know are just personal and I won't convey it into a point of "this is a disgrace" (current kicks are seeing Lukaku play well, and I have my feelings on the problem)

So for me, I'd probably take third? Should say that I don't think our performances are always rubbish. We have had great games under Mourinho and performances.

But ask me if I'd take third but all our big games would be like Arsenal recently, or take 2nd with our big games being like they normally are, then I'm taking third in each and every instance. Don't know what that makes me, but nothing beats the thrill of a proper blood pumping big game.

You would hope that we wouldn’t have to choose between the two but Jose obviously doesn’t feel he has all the pieces he needs to be attacking in the bigger games. I don’t like it one bit but I think we all know that this is very much a trait of the manager.

I think that is fine. He is a results driven guy. Hence his digs and snide remarks at poets and how he builds his teams and there is no surprise there.
At the same time, I think him feeling he doesn't have the parts, doesn't exclude him from receiving criticism, or fans,media or pundits pointing out how he is misusing his players. While it's easy to blame the players, and of course they are culpable, a primary objective of a manager is getting players firing and using whatever tools necessary, any compromise to achieve that, if the player merits it. Something that most managers will never be as good at, as Fergie was.

TheDoc

Sebastian Dangerfield wrote: »

You'd swear from reading on here that the idea of playing a quick forward player in a wide position is completely unique to United. Samuel Eto'o did it very well when asked. Even a less mobile, target man like Mario Mandzukic has done it well. Not every forward is a 30 goal a season man but they can still have qualities that can be utilised at the top levels.

Considering I'm the one talking about it, I guess I can state I'm well aware that it's not a new thing. It's a relatively modern phenomenon however, of it being a method to accommodate a quality striker, that you want to keep happy and not have them want to force a transfer through not playing.

Ask Rashford whether he wants to play on the left or sit on the bench til Lukaku needs a rest. I'm pretty sure he'd take the former. He's on record as saying he wants to build experience in all of the forward positions.

Of course he will want to play. A footballer wants to play. I also remember him saying that, the same week his manager said it in a press conference. I'd imagine he wasnt going to say"Well to be fair it's a bit of a waste of time because I'm a striker and if I don't get my gametime there here, I'll find it somewhere else".

As for Rashford not having developed, he's on target to match last years total in half the season. He has added set pieces to his game over the last few months and looks a much more mature player when on form. Yes his form is patchy, but he's only played 60 odd games.

Yeah stats wise doing well. He's a quality player. He had a pretty meh return last year to be honest, so his numbers are probably going to be better.

What does "more mature mean"? He still misses what I'd consider good chances and his off the ball movement is a bit meh when we are attacking through the middle or from the right. So I think anyway

TheDoc

Jayop wrote: »

Bristol on Wednesday followed by 3 premier league games in a week over Xmas. Bristol are in good form. 3rd int he Championship and on the back of 4 wins on the bounce. I'd be wary of them as a banana skin but we should get past them and at this stage of the comp we should be targeting it as potential silverware given the league already looks gone and realistically this side isn't going to win a CL this season leaving only the two cups.

Would you play Pogba tonight or keep him fresh for the upcoming league games??

I'd like to see...

Romero
Darmian - Tuanzebe - Lindelof - Blind - Shaw
Herrera - McTominay
Lingard - Martial - Rashford

Maybe have Gomes on the bench and try to give him a run out to celebrate his new contract if things are going well.

I don't know what Bristol are like or how they are going but I'd go

Romero
Darmian - Lindelof - Rojo - Shaw
Herrera - Blind
Mhikitaryian - Lingard - Martial
Rashford

Formation whatever, but throw Blind in midfield to give Matic a rest. Rest Lukaku and play either Rashford/Martial/Zlatan up front. Bring Mhiki back into the fray, on his favourited right side. Bring Shaw into the mix at LB. Everything else somewhat standard rotation stuff.

jayo26

I think pogba will play against Bristol now that he ain't cup tied he will need the minutes to get him back up to speed gamewise even if he gets 60 minutes.

bucketybuck

TheDoc wrote: »

Personally I'm not seeing it.

Such a shock.

pjohnson

Didn't Henry play as a "striker" that regularly drifted out wide? Dont get the upset over Martial/Rashford playing wider coming inside. They aren't playing as midfielders. They are still playing as forwards all be it starting wider out.

Most teams playing 3 attackers have two faster players based wide and the strongest acting as a target man centrally.

Jayop

TheDoc wrote: »

I don't know what Bristol are like or how they are going but I'd go

Romero
Darmian - Lindelof - Rojo - Shaw
Herrera - Blind
Mhikitaryian - Lingard - Martial
Rashford

Formation whatever, but throw Blind in midfield to give Matic a rest. Rest Lukaku and play either Rashford/Martial/Zlatan up front. Bring Mhiki back into the fray, on his favourited right side. Bring Shaw into the mix at LB. Everything else somewhat standard rotation stuff.

Actually had completely forgot about Mkhi and Zlatan when I was doing that. You'd imagine/hope both of them are sure to start.

I don't think Rojo will be risked as he's on 4 yellow cards and iirc league cup cards carry over to the league.

Jayop

jayo26 wrote: »

I think pogba will play against Bristol now that he ain't cup tied he will need the minutes to get him back up to speed gamewise even if he gets 60 minutes.

He''ll only have been out for 2 weeks. Not expecting him to be rusty at all.