Manchester United Thread..The Final Chapter of 17? (MOD WARNINGS IN OP)

Lukker-

Lord TSC wrote: »

Unied's issue is less a "scattergun" and more that we've changed philosophies a few times; Van Gaal's players aren't good in jose's system. If Jose retains the backing of the board and continues to replace the players from before he arrived with the same level as he has been, we'll catch up with City. Pep, ultimately, joined with a better foundation in place for him. Jose was presented the ruins of a house, and people are annoyed that the walls are all up but the roof isn't on yet. But we are moving in the right direction.

I actually believed Mourinho would have a more instant impact at United. Whatever about LVG's failings, I actually thought the foundation was a solid one.

I do think United would be in a much better spot if they had some form of continuity though, as they may find themselves in a similar situation once Mourinho leaves. The next manager will get the keys to a car he may not want to drive.

I think a DoF would have meant much less wasted growth, the club should have an identity outside of the manager who is coaching them, and it's wasted investment if specific players can't perform for new managers.

Notorious

What’s happened to Mkhitaryan? He finished last season well, starting and scoring in the Europa final. Was firmly in the team at the start of the season and made quite a few assists. I really want to see him do well, and today he finally gets a chance but doesn’t produce the goods. You’d imagine confidence must be lacking with the lack of game time and not even featuring on the team sheet. He looks a totally different player to the one we used to praise here! Talk of him being loaned to Inter now.

GSPfan

I’ve re-evaluated my hopes for the season from winning the title to finishing in the top 3. Chelsea are gonna overtake us and I’m hoping we hold off Tottenhams late season push.

deadybai

Bout time Lingard gets a bit of credit . He has been excellent in recent times . Bad result and we are so poor with out Valencia .

Pogba should be sold too . Simply not good enough to be wearing a United shirt . He’s the guy we should be looking at to drag us out of a hole . Name one match where you sat back and thought he was head and shoulders above the rest ? 90 million pound player my eyeball

deaddonkey15

Adamocovic wrote: »

Ah would you stop.
Some of the exaggerations that go on in here is pathetic to read at times.

We're far from a perfect side and of course we have to be disappointed with recent results but to think we are just plain **** because of that is absolutely ridiculous, a **** team doesn't find themselves in 2nd place halfway through the season or progress to the knockouts of the CL. You can disregard stats, and facts all you want and then roll out the classic in here "head in the sand stuff".

I'm getting out of here because I truly cannot be arsed with the ridiculous over-analysis that will now ensue from both sides of the debate in here.

Happy holidays you filthy animals.

What exaggeration?

Can you please quote my post where I said we were "plain ****"?

What stats and facts am I disregarding?

wanderer100

deadybai wrote: »

Pogba should be sold too . Simply not good enough to be wearing a United shirt . He’s the guy we should be looking at to drag us out of a hole . Name one match where you sat back and thought he was head and shoulders above the rest ? 90 million pound player my eyeball

:eek::eek:

And that's enough boards for today

limnam

wanderer100 wrote: »

:eek::eek:

And that's enough boards for today

:pac:

I'm off to the personal issues forum. It seems someone was lonely this xmas.

ArmaniJeanss

Minderbinder wrote: »

... There was a goal in injury time as well. Yet nothing extra added to what was already a disgracefully short amount of added time.

Always unsure why people expect time added on for a goal. Like lots of games go in at halftime at 1-0 or 1-1 without any time added on and no-one questions it, yet we seem to want more time for a goal just because it occurred at 90+.

pjohnson

wanderer100 wrote: »

:eek::eek:

And that's enough boards for today

Oh thats good. I assume that means you read what I read and therefore I'm not having some post post Christmas feed hallucinations.

Lukker-

GSPfan wrote: »

I’ve re-evaluated my hopes for the season from winning the title to finishing in the top 3. Chelsea are gonna overtake us and I’m hoping we hold off Tottenhams late season push.

United will pick up again, Chelsea aren't great. They've sorted their defence out, but now are toothless up front, as the burden for goals is too heavy on Hazard and Morata. I don't think either side will be able to significantly strengthen in Jan

adox

deadybai wrote: »

Bad result and we are so poor with out Valencia .

What?? Young had a really good game at RB and Valencia wouldn’t have provided any of those decent crosses that Young put in.

adox

J. Marston wrote: »

I'm guessing he was captain again today so if you can't look to your £100 million attacking, creative captain when you're down, who do you look to exactly?

Not him.

GSPfan

Young was good on the right and Shaw is a breath of fresh air on the left. Only good things coming out of today are Lingard and Shaws performances.

Lord TSC

Sell Pogba?

Mantis Toboggan

Selling Pogba would be ludicrous, no chance of getting anything near the price we paid for him. Same for Shaw, Lakaku, martial etc. When you consistently over pay for players you've no hope of making any return on your investment.

pjohnson

Tyson Fury wrote: »

Selling Pogba would be ludicrous, no chance of getting anything near the price we paid for him. Same for Shaw, Lakaku, martial etc. When you consistently over pay for players you've no hope of making any return on your investment.

Sure ya might aswell sell DeGea while you're at it.

Lord TSC

Tyson Fury wrote: »

Selling Pogba would be ludicrous, no chance of getting anything near the price we paid for him.

Yes, THAT'S why it would be ludicrous....

GSPfan

Tyson Fury wrote: »

Selling Pogba would be ludicrous, no chance of getting anything near the price we paid for him. Same for Shaw, Lakaku, martial etc. When you consistently over pay for players you've no hope of making any return on your investment.

I doubt anyone is worried about the resale value, it’s ludicrous because it’d be stupid to sell your best midfielder.

kona

GSPfan wrote: »

I’m hoping we hold off Tottenhams late season push.

This is hillarious. They have had some "pushes" alright!:pac:

On the pogba business other posters are mentioning, i find that bizarre, pogba is on a different level to the rest of the team

DM_7

Jose blaming the players and asking for money, moaning about what City can spend is worse than the performance.

He should be big enough now to take some blame. It was his selection that saw Ibra needing to come off, his choice to play Pogba in midfield two again. Not good enough from him this week.

Yes he has a of credit in the bank for how he got here, still needs to accept his own choices.

yabadabado

I thought Shaw had a good game and if he stays fit then should be first choice for the rest of the season.
Would love to see a cm and an attacker join in January but doubt there will be any major signings.

jayo26

DM_7 wrote: »

Jose blaming the players and asking for money, moaning about what City can spend is worse than the performance.

He should be big enough now to take some blame. It was his selection that saw Ibra needing to come off, his choice to play Pogba in midfield two again. Not good enough from him this week.

Yes he has a of credit in the bank for how he got here, still needs to accept his own choices.

Why should He? What kind of a manager would he be if he said oh I got it wrong? He would be completely ripped to bits by the press and players.

I don't get this talk of ohh the manager should say this. When ever did Fergie or Wenger or pep ever some out and say they were getting it wrong it's not a message to send out.

Our two most recent draws were mainly faults of players errors. Yes he is at fault but he didn't have to knowledge that In the press.

He is getting paid to win things and progress the team not to satisfy the press and fans need to blame someone for every result.

Bad result again yes but either back the manager and his results or sack him simple really.

Trigger

Lord TSC wrote: »

Yes, THAT'S why it would be ludicrous....

He’s leading into the Blame Woody territory, just setting it up for himself..

adox

yabadabado wrote: »

I thought Shaw had a good game and if he stays fit then should be first choice for the rest of the season.
Would love to see a cm and an attacker join in January but doubt there will be any major signings.

With the noises com8ng from Jose the last couple of weeks, I’ll be astonished if there is t at least a couple of signings in January.

Turtwig

jayo26 wrote: »

I don't get this talk of ohh the manager should say this. When ever did Fergie or Wenger or pep ever some out and say they were getting it wrong it's not a message to send out.

Win or lose pep does. Dyche does. Ancellotti does. Managers can give an honest assessment of the game without hanging out players to dry. Jose cannot give an honest assessment. Objectively there's no problem there but you cannot throw your players under a bus and he is doing this way too frequent of late.

Seen it so often before it's hard not to be concerned for utd fans.

Lord TSC

Except it's an honest assessment to say the players have been giving away cheap, **** goals....

deaddonkey15

Turtwig wrote: »

Win or lose pep does. Dyche does. Ancellotti does. Managers can give an honest assessment of the game without hanging out players to dry. Jose cannot give an honest assessment. Objectively there's no problem there but you cannot throw your players under a bus and he is doing this way too frequent of late.

Seen it so often before it's hard not to be concerned for utd fans.

How can you criticise him for blaming the players and also for not giving an honest assessment of the game? Anyone with half a brain watching United recently can tell that the players have been performing poorly, misplacing passes, missing sitters, making wrong decisions etc.

StringerBell

This Christmas reminds me of that utterly disappointing one from years ago, we drew both games also, one to Blackburn, can't remember the other, under Fergie obviously. If it wasn't for the alcohol to hand all around you would be so much more upset I think.

adox

Whatever about the question of honesty etc I think he is starting to play a dangerous game with the players.

A fine line between being brutally honest and losing the players.

adox

StringerBell wrote: »

This Christmas reminds me of that utterly disappointing one from years ago, we drew both games also, one to Blackburn, can't remember the other, under Fergie obviously. If it wasn't for the alcohol to hand all around you would be so much more upset I think.

I’ve been tee total for the last 16 years. :mad:

PhlegmyMoses

Turtwig wrote: »

Win or lose pep does. Dyche does. Ancellotti does. Managers can give an honest assessment of the game without hanging out players to dry. Jose cannot give an honest assessment. Objectively there's no problem there but you cannot throw your players under a bus and he is doing this way too frequent of late.

Seen it so often before it's hard not to be concerned for utd fans.

Make your mind up on what you want. Honest assessment or not blaming players. If his honest assessment is that the players are not doing well, where does that leave you?

People blaming Mourinho on this are hugely short sighted. If people are going to use money spent as a means to beat him up, then they can also look at the other issues. His signings have been largely decent to good. The signings made under other managers are still floundering, by and large. We haven't had a settled backline in forever and have two converted wingers, almost mid 30s as our full backs. we have two kids expected to do all of the heavy lifting on our wings who are performingly admirably despite the pressure. And a new striker still settling in who is agree, is probably being used poorly by the manager.

There are definitely things that Jose is doing wrong. He does need to get more out of some of these players. But a lot if these guys have been under 3 managers, some 4, and they have not been good enough in years. A bigger facelift was needed on this squad than anybody anticipated and letting a guy sign 6 or 7 players and then turning on him a season and a half in is absolutely ludicrous, especially when we have seen inarguable progress across the boards.

That was some fight shown by the players tonight against a sturdy and cynical team set up to defend. The manager was decisive in changing things up and made the right changes, not just in personnel but in attitude too. Onwards to the next game and let's smash them.

PhlegmyMoses

adox wrote: »

Whatever about the question of honesty etc I think he is starting to play a dangerous game with the players.

A fine line between being brutally honest and losing the players.

With this type of management style, you need good examples of people who pulled their socks up and got back onside with him. Martial is a good example, Jones and Young might feel similar. Hopefully Shaw can sort his **** out and be the next to drag himself back into contention and take Mourinhos critiques and use them to spur him on. Done well, it creates strength, fergie would do similar in private, not as publically though.

secman

adox wrote: »

I’ve been tee total for the last 16 years. :mad:

If that's good for you , no harm at all.

jayo26

jayo26 wrote: »

Why should He? What kind of a manager would he be if he said oh I got it wrong? He would be completely ripped to bits by the press and players.

I don't get this talk of ohh the manager should say this. When ever did Fergie or Wenger or pep ever some out and say they were getting it wrong it's not a message to send out.

Conte has...
http://www.football365.com/news/conte-admits-he-got-tactics-wrong-against-roma

Pep has...
https://www.sofascore.com/news/guardiola-admits-getting-things-wrong-man-city/

Wenger has...
https://www.express.co.uk/sport/football/605782/Arsene-Wenger-Arsenal-lost-Dinamo-Zagreb-Champions-League-Croatia

Now that's not to say that Mourinho should, I always enjoy his swagger and self confidence. But it's not completely off limits for managers to concede they got it wrong and they don't get slaughtered for it.

S.M.B.

deaddonkey15 wrote: »

Matic's passing in the final third is shocking at times. Like in the end of the Leicester game, there were times where he literally passed the ball to Burnley players.

This has annoyed the sh*t out of me this week. He failed to pull of a simple threaded pass on the edge of the box against Leicester which resulted in Vardys counter attack goal and he had a few similar attempts today.

jayo26

So this is Jose throwing his players under the bus and criticising them after the game????????


Mourinho has spent £286.2million on seven players since he was appointed United manager, compared with the £360m Pep Guardiola has splurged on the City squad. When that figure was mentioned, he replied: "Is not enough, is not enough. And the price for the big clubs, the price for the big clubs is different from the other clubs, so the big, historical clubs are normally punished in the market for that history.

"So the boys are doing what they can and they are doing fine, you say seven points from 16 or 15, something like you say, I say last two matches we had 15 chances to score and we concede three S[**t] goals and an amazing free-kick.

"So the boys do what they can, they are trying hard with the problems and injuries we have. I am not happy with the result, and against Leicester, but I am happy with my players."

Do people just exaggerate or just not bother reading?

yabadabado

adox wrote: »

With the noises com8ng from Jose the last couple of weeks, I’ll be astonished if there is t at least a couple of signings in January.

Is the quality available in January?


A partner for Matic and Pogba in CM could make a huge difference and a right sided attacker would be two signings I'd like to see. The options currently at the club don't fill me with much confidence.

PhlegmyMoses

S.M.B. wrote: »

This has annoyed the sh*t out of me this week. He failed to pull of a simple threaded pass on the edge of the box against Leicester which resulted in Vardys counter attack goal and he had a few similar attempts today.

I reckon Matic is knackered the. Lot of minutes this season.

Turtwig

deaddonkey15 wrote: »

How can you criticise him for blaming the players and also for not giving an honest assessment of the game? Anyone with half a brain watching United recently can tell that the players have been performing poorly, misplacing passes, missing sitters, making wrong decisions etc.

Criticise the performance as a team, never specific instances of individuals. Once you do that to your team members you're walking a really tight rope.

StringerBell

jayo26 wrote: »

Do people just exaggerate or just not bother reading?

Preconceived notions and confirmation bias go a long way.

DM_7

jayo26 wrote: »

Why should He? What kind of a manager would he be if he said oh I got it wrong? He would be completely ripped to bits by the press and players.

I don't get this talk of ohh the manager should say this. When ever did Fergie or Wenger or pep ever some out and say they were getting it wrong it's not a message to send out.

Our two most recent draws were mainly faults of players errors. Yes he is at fault but he didn't have to knowledge that In the press.

He is getting paid to win things and progress the team not to satisfy the press and fans need to blame someone for every result.

Bad result again yes but either back the manager and his results or sack him simple really.

I am talking about Jose accepting blame that may come his way by not deflecting it to his team. He doesn't have to say it was his fault, I am not asking for him to say that either, just not say it is the players to deflect from his own mistakes.

Any way you look at it, a team with Lukaku and Zlatan makes little sense, especially when it exposes Pogba and his weakness even more.

Today is on him for sure. Leicester was the players. It doesn't matter who was at fault once they learn from it. The part I don't like is him making excuses about money spent by city or blaming the players when he didn't need to have a go at anyone.

dfx-

Adamocovic wrote: »

Ah would you stop.
Some of the exaggerations that go on in here is pathetic to read at times.

We're far from a perfect side and of course we have to be disappointed with recent results but to think we are just plain **** because of that is absolutely ridiculous, a **** team doesn't find themselves in 2nd place halfway through the season or progress to the knockouts of the CL. You can disregard stats, and facts all you want and then roll out the classic in here "head in the sand stuff".

I'm getting out of here because I truly cannot be arsed with the ridiculous over-analysis that will now ensue from both sides of the debate in here.

Happy holidays you filthy animals.

Far from a perfect side is an understatement. The evidence is clearly there out on the pitch and results are dropping off. They're dropping off from the pace if anything else.

Tylerdurex

Our 2 most recent draws aside when you see how pool and city are playing then we really are behind the times . If Liverpool sort there defensive problems out they are the only team in the league that can go toe to toe with city instead of having to set themselves up to play differently to tackle cities strengths

PhlegmyMoses

dfx- wrote: »

Far from a perfect side is an understatement. The evidence is clearly there out on the pitch and results are dropping off. They're dropping off from the pace if anything else.

Far too early to be saying they are dropping off the pace. I mean, if we are comparing them to city, then yes. But the chasing pack will all have blips, hence why United are two games clear of all bar Chelsea. And Chelsea are an attacking injury or two away from trouble as well. Two draws against two horrible teams to play against who have bloodied the noses of top teams for the last couple of years, and people are twisting their knickers. Life with Jose in charge of your team I suppose.

PhlegmyMoses

Tylerdurex wrote: »

Our 2 most recent draws aside when you see how pool and city are playing then we really are behind the times . If Liverpool sort there defensive problems out they are the only team in the league that can go toe to toe with city instead of having to set themselves up to play differently to tackle cities strengths

I wish people could hand wave away our issues as easily as you did Liverpool's. Nearly 3 seasons in charge for Klopp and no sign of those defensive issues improving.

Trigger

And the bogey side up next

bucketybuck

DM_7 wrote: »

Any way you look at it, a team with Lukaku and Zlatan makes little sense, especially when it exposes Pogba and his weakness even more.

Yet I've seen plenty of posts in here looking to see Zlatan at number 10 behind Lukaku.

Just like plenty wanted Martial and Rashford in the same team. Mata playing. Rojo back in. Shaw in the team. Mkhitaryan given more chances.

I find it hard to criticise selections to be honest, many of them are what people wanted and most of them were pretty rational. The problem is that it doesn't matter what way you rearrange the deckchairs when most of your players aren't near as good as people think they are.

I said it a few times recently, but that certainly won't be the last such result you see this season. Might as well make peace with that.

It was understandable and/or made a point a couple of weeks ago when there were WUMs thriving about the place. Eventually though, when the umpteenth poster says 'I'm out of here' because they don't like the debate, the statement just gets diluted and veers into childish territory.

Anyway, outside of Christmas being book-ended by two miserable results, hope you all had a good one.

TheDoc

Lord TSC wrote: »

Its like some people forget where we are in the table now verses where we've been for the last 4 years....

Or maybe we don’t know how to deal with the constant fluidity or what is valid and what is not ?

That was enjoyable in a sense chasing the result, but three points never felt it was coming. I don’t know the numbers but that felt like Moyes and Fulham.

Moving balls out wide to have them aimlessly whipped in. Easiest thing for an organized compact team to deal with.

Further entrenches my beliefs the manager just doesn’t have any plan how to attack or instructions. For all the dominance we rarely properly had their keeper under siege. Lingard missing another sitter, few nice distance shots and then the goals.

Burnleys form aside, drawing 2-2 at home with them at home is never a justifiable result. Seeing it deemed as such is baffling

At some point Lord you need to stop referencing the past. “Oh look where we were”. The club made their statement with Mourinho and his transfers that were were consigning that to the bin.

We are still in 2nd only from our decent early season results and Chelsea being a mess.

Our recent form over the last 4-6 games should be alarming. If this team doesn’t start clicking like a proper functioning top team should, could easily slide down that table with eyes on the CL.

jayo26

DM_7 wrote: »

I am talking about Jose accepting blame that may come his way by not deflecting it to his team. He doesn't have to say it was his fault, I am not asking for him to say that either, just not say it is the players to deflect from his own mistakes.

Any way you look at it, a team with Lukaku and Zlatan makes little sense, especially when it exposes Pogba and his weakness even more.

Today is on him for sure. Leicester was the players. It doesn't matter who was at fault once they learn from it. The part I don't like is him making excuses about money spent by city or blaming the players when he didn't need to have a go at anyone.

Fine but if you set up a team to create chances and they miss chances and fail to complete some easy crosses that would of lead to even more chances and concede at least two goals in two games from individual player error then i don't see why it's wrong of him say we missed chances and concede sh1t goals you want him to lie.

He didn't blame money for the result he was pointed to what city have spent in comparison to him and he said it's not enough.

People have been comparing saying Jose has spent similar to pep since they both took over respective clubs while in fact we have spent a good bit less while starting off with a far poorer squad so yes we do need to spend more to compete with them.

When people don't exaggerate what he says and actually read what he says and when he says it he is not wrong at all.