Manchester United Thread..The Final Chapter of 17? (MOD WARNINGS IN OP)

SlickRic

There is now doubt Pep is superb, and probably the best. He just needs lots of money to get the job done.

Or a crop of the best players in the world like he had at Barca.

José is the same.

Pretty much all top managers are

adox

IamtheWalrus wrote: »

Here you go now

"I asked them for four players, four profiles of players I needed and I gave them options. So 75 per cent of the job is done. We have just 25 per cent left to do until 31 August. We are in great conditions to have what I would consider to be a good market for us."

So more or less what I said he said.

Cantona's Collars

SlickRic wrote: »

There is now doubt Pep is superb, and probably the best. He just needs lots of money to get the job done.

Or a crop of the best players in the world like he had at Barca.

José is the same.

Pretty much all top managers are

They look like getting VVD ahead of Liverpool now for £60 million. Including goalies that brings his spend on defence alone to £400 million. FFP is a mere annoyance to them.

clubberlang12

Didn't bother looking at this or the match thread during the game and only read a bit of them afterwards. Not sure if it has been mentioned but i feel Lukaku is becoming a serious problem for us when defending set pieces. For all the talk of him being exceptional in the air, yesterday was another example quite the opposite for me. His attempt to head the ball for their goal is pathetic in truth. He is becoming a real liability back there. Furthermore, i think i only counted 1, possibly 2, aerial duels he won yesterday against their centre backs. He also had a great chance from a header which he somehow skewed and practically returned the ball back out to Rashford on the edge of the box, when he should at the minimum have hit the target. I really feel the best way to play to his strengths are with the ball played ahead of him facing the opposition. His size and pace is what frightens defenders. None of them want to see him running at them, which he has scarcely done this season. Playing with his back to goal doesn't work for him, doesn't help that his hold up play and first touch are often poor, as when he's statuesque defenders are able to handle him.

Lately we have had a number of posters defend Lukaku in saying he doesn't get enough service. To be honest, i feel a lot of that is down to himself. For me, his reading of the game is poor. His movement off the ball leaves a lot to be desired and improved upon and this contributes to his lack of opportunities.....he's simply not putting himself in enough positions for his team mates to find him. If you watch when United have the ball 10 to 15 yards out from goal he isn't trying to find room in behind off the shoulder of his marker. Compare this to the movement of Kane, Aguero, Morata, Jesus, etc. He's essentially more re-active than pro-active.

pjohnson

Just realised that I posted a get rid list lat night that included Rojo, Darmian, Blind (and Fellaini and Mkhitaryan)

Only one of those surplus to requirement was brought by Jose. And all 3 of the defenders were LVG purchases.

gstack166

SlickRic wrote: »

José is not wrong on the £300m comment, but only in the context of talking about Manchester City.

Pep, to a decent extent, is a chequebook manager. If someone calls José one, you have to call Pep one. Even though the two managers play certain styles, they both rely on a particular profile of player. Pep's system does not work if the players aren't right. Look at last season.

Pep had a better squad when he arrived than when José did when he did. Yet Pep, who José knows is brilliant, gets his choice of players in whatever position for whatever price. I mean, we've even seen VVD rumoured this week, and he'd be 3rd choice CB more than likely. For £60m.

In that context, while many will see him as trolling, £300m is not enough.

José is looking at his team, sitting in 2nd, only behind a City juggernaut that has spent more than him, even though he has spent plenty. You can't really compete with City's wealth+Pep unless you play well above your capacity and they play below theirs.

José knows Pep is brilliant.
He knows he won't beat him unless the spending is matched.

Nobody will.

For instance, why do you think Conté was annoyed in the summer with the lack of spending?

Money money money.

It's purist, ideological bullshíttery for anyone to suggest 'well, can't he just coach the players he has?' Well, yes he can, and they might get better. But the biggest spenders invariably win the silverware. It's just a fact.

£300m is not enough to compete with this City setup unless they grossly underachieve.

Not true. City’s main starting 11 (who on average have started the most league games this season) is Ederson, Walker, Delph, Otamendi, Stones, Fernandiho, Silva, KDB, Sane, Sterling, & Aguero
Pep has only bought 4 of them players. He’s greatly improved KDB Otamendi & Sterling, to say its all down to being a ‘chequebook’ manager isn’t true or a fair reflection on him.

Mitch Connor

United are missing quality in certain positions - but most of all the club lacks leaders, especially in defence. Maybe lindelof or bailly will develop into that but we don't have players to calm the side down and impose our plans and mentality on the side.

We panic and do stupid things all the time.

Mantis Toboggan

Jose has spend 286 millions pounds since being appointed last year and still says he needs more money. He's deluded. When you think Burnleys record signings are robbie Brady and Chris Wood, really shows who's doing a good managerial job and who's not.

jayo26

Tyson Fury wrote: »

Jose has spend 286 millions pounds since being appointed last year and still says he needs more money. He's deluded. When you think Burnleys record signings are robbie Brady and Chris Wood, really shows who's doing a good managerial job and who's not.

No he said they need to spend more to get to cities level which is two points dropped all season.

Is it that hard to actually read things.

Lord TSC

Mitch Connor wrote: »

United are missing quality in certain positions - but most of all the club lacks leaders, especially in defence. Maybe lindelof or bailly will develop into that but we don't have players to calm the side down and impose our plans and mentality on the side.

We panic and do stupid things all the time.

I worry this is a big issue with the "focus on youth" philosophy that suddenly popped up under LVG. While I'm not saying kids can't have some leadership qualities, we're severly lacking genuine leaders in the 27-30 year old age range; players at their peak, but who are willing to absolutely scream at players, organise them, etc.

Tyson Fury wrote: »

Jose has spend 286 millions pounds since being appointed last year and still says he needs more money. He's deluded. When you think Burnleys record signings are robbie Brady and Chris Wood, really shows who's doing a good managerial job and who's not.

Genuine question; do you think there's any manager in the world who could get our current squad of players closer to City? As in, get results that see, what, 17 wins out of 20? Do you think the squad actually has that sort of run in it?

adox

pjohnson wrote: »

Just realised that I posted a get rid list lat night that included Rojo, Darmian, Blind (and Fellaini and Mkhitaryan)

Only one of those surplus to requirement was brought by Jose. And all 3 of the defenders were LVG purchases.

None of those defenders are good enough for the first team imo. I’d certainly be happy to see Blind and Darmian go and also Probably Rojo.

Fellaini if we can upgrade on him then fair enough. We are short as it is in midfield so he would certainly have to be replaced at the very least. I’d like to see more additions there.

Miki is a strange one. He’s been brutal for weeks now and I even thought when he had those amazing stats that they somewhat flattered his overall performances. The fact that he is starting to get game time again makes me think that Jose might wait until the summer until he makes his mind up on him, although on the flip side he could be putting him in the shop window.

It’s easy at the same time to get carried away with things when they aren’t going well(and be a little complacent when they are) but those three defenders I’d certainly have no problem moving on. I think Blind and Darmian are goners. I’ve a feeling Jose likes Rojos aggressive style of play so may be reluctance to sell him. If Bailly was fit then he might think differently.

adox

Tyson Fury wrote: »

Jose has spend 286 millions pounds since being appointed last year and still says he needs more money. He's deluded. When you think Burnleys record signings are robbie Brady and Chris Wood, really shows who's doing a good managerial job and who's not.

It sounds a huge amount of money but in today’s masked it isn’t. Also he was talk8mg about needing more money to compete with City. It makes perfect sense. He takes over a squad decimated by Van Gaal who bought some awful sh1te and got rig of good players and left the squad too small. The only way you can add to it apart from bringing through academy players is buying them.

Of the money he spent £90 odd million went on Pogba and £70million on Lukaku. That £160 million on two players. I’m just trying to give perspective.

This is t totally excusing Jose and saying that he has been perfect in the job but m just trying to display that when you read beyond the tabloid headline nature of it, it makes perfect sense.

gstack166

Lord TSC wrote: »

I worry this is a big issue with the "focus on youth" philosophy that suddenly popped up under LVG. While I'm not saying kids can't have some leadership qualities, we're severly lacking genuine leaders in the 27-30 year old age range; players at their peak, but who are willing to absolutely scream at players, organise them, etc.



Genuine question; do you think there's any manager in the world who could get our current squad of players closer to City? As in, get results that see, what, 17 wins out of 20? Do you think the squad actually has that sort of run in it?

Are you honestly asking if any another manager in the world would of got the same results at home to Burnley & away at Leicester, Huddersfield & Stoke? Reasonable to suggest any other manager wouldn’t of got a point at Liverpool with Uniteds squad & it’s no crime losing to City & Chelsea but the first 4 teams mentioned there instantly half’s the gap to City already. Do you think the squad actually has it in them to win those games?

Lord TSC

gstack166 wrote: »

Are you honestly asking if any another manager in the world would of got the same results at home to Burnley & away at Leicester, Huddersfield & Stoke? Reasonable to suggest any other manager wouldn’t of got a point at Liverpool with Uniteds squad & it’s no crime losing to City & Chelsea but the first 4 teams mentioned there instantly half’s the gap to City already. Do you think the squad actually has it in them to win those games?

And yet, in all those questions, you didn't actually try and provide an answer to mine....

We're second. To have a title challange this year, we'd need to have won 17 of our 20 games, and we'd still be behind City. Do you think any manager could get the current squad to win 17 out of 20 games?

adox

Mitch Connor wrote: »

United are missing quality in certain positions - but most of all the club lacks leaders, especially in defence. Maybe lindelof or bailly will develop into that but we don't have players to calm the side down and impose our plans and mentality on the side.

We panic and do stupid things all the time.

I think Bailly is the closest we have to a potential leader on the pitch. I’d say he is captain material in the future.

The only one that you ever seeing being vocal at the back is Smalling but I don’t think he’s a natural leader. It’s one thing that irks me is that there seems to be very little verbal communication or berating of each other. Even when we concede a corner it seems to be total silence when getting organized to defend it.

I would full sure Jose would bring in his own man as a leader on the pitch, possibly a midfielder. Matic for all his qualities isn’t it and Pogba certainky isn’t either.

gstack166

Lord TSC wrote: »

And yet, in all those questions, you didn't actually try and provide an answer to mine....

What? ok then. Yes, I suggest that any manager in the top 6 of any of the leagues in England Spain Italy & Germany should be able get 3 points versus Stoke Leicester Huddersfield & Burnley with the 3rd richest assembled squad in the history of football.

Lord TSC

gstack166 wrote: »

What? ok then. Yes, I suggest that any manager in the top 6 of any of the leagues in England Spain Italy & Germany should be able get 3 points versus Stoke Leicester Huddersfield & Burnley with the 3rd richest assembled squad in the history of football.

So you genuinely believe that the squad we have currently could launch pretty much a historic run? City have dropped 4 points in 20 games. You genuinely think we have the squad, currently, to match that?

adox

gstack166 wrote: »

What? ok then. Yes, I suggest that any manager in the top 6 of any of the leagues in England Spain Italy & Germany should be able get 3 points versus Stoke Leicester Huddersfield & Burnley with the 3rd richest assembled squad in the history of football.

This is just over simplistic and not how football works. Yes we expected to beat Burnley yesterday but **** happens.

We won away at Arsenal and at home to Spurs, spanked a few other teams by four goals but that doesn’t suit your narrative.

VW 1

gstack166 wrote: »

What? ok then. Yes, I suggest that any manager in the top 6 of any of the leagues in England Spain Italy & Germany should be able get 3 points versus Stoke Leicester Huddersfield & Burnley with the 3rd richest assembled squad in the history of football.

Like a politician dodging an actual answer here.

If it was that easy then why haven't all these managers won 17 of their first twenty games at some point?

Should just let the players pick the teams and not bother with a a manager..

Trigger

gstack166 wrote: »

What? ok then. Yes, I suggest that any manager in the top 6 of any of the leagues in England Spain Italy & Germany should be able get 3 points versus Stoke Leicester Huddersfield & Burnley with the 3rd richest assembled squad in the history of football.

Real Madrid have dropped points against Valencia, real Betis, Ginora, levante, and Bilboa this season already..

Football doesn’t work like that and would be a very boring game if it did.

Turtwig

Lord TSC wrote: »

Genuine question; do you think there's any manager in the world who could get our current squad of players closer to City? As in, get results that see, what, 17 wins out of 20? Do you think the squad actually has that sort of run in it?

Pep.

Allegri, Conte, peak Jose when AVB was his assistant, Klopp (his Dortmund side were more than capable of defending), Simeone, possibly also Blanc, would push that potential of the squad far more too imo.

Maybe none would get 17/20 wins but they'd all improve the performances of the squad. It's actually a very decent squad.

The_Kew_Tour

we are 4 Points better off then what we were after 20 games last season.

The last 2 results have been disappointing but I think so far the season has seem progress over last one.

into CL group stages too. it's not all doom and gloom.

after 20 games

Liverpool are 6 Points worse off then last season
chelsea are 7 points off
Spurs are 5 points off
Arsenal will still be 4 Points at best if they win their game in hand.

Trigger

So according to Gazzetta we have offered Juve 69m Euro for Dybala..

posturingpat

gstack166 wrote: »

What? ok then. Yes, I suggest that any manager in the top 6 of any of the leagues in England Spain Italy & Germany should be able get 3 points versus Stoke Leicester Huddersfield & Burnley with the 3rd richest assembled squad in the history of football.

Pretty disingenuous considering the market.

jayo26

astradave wrote: »

So according to Gazzetta we have offered Juve 69m Euro for Dybala..

Is that for his big toe?

SlickRic

bangkok wrote: »

Pints are grand, sitting 15 points behind city before jan 1st, well that is a load of sh1t

They've dropped 2 points all season.

Of course everyone is miles behind.

Relax.

Robson99

clubberlang12 wrote: »

Didn't bother looking at this or the match thread during the game and only read a bit of them afterwards. Not sure if it has been mentioned but i feel Lukaku is becoming a serious problem for us when defending set pieces. For all the talk of him being exceptional in the air, yesterday was another example quite the opposite for me. His attempt to head the ball for their goal is pathetic in truth. He is becoming a real liability back there. Furthermore, i think i only counted 1, possibly 2, aerial duels he won yesterday against their centre backs. He also had a great chance from a header which he somehow skewed and practically returned the ball back out to Rashford on the edge of the box, when he should at the minimum have hit the target. I really feel the best way to play to his strengths are with the ball played ahead of him facing the opposition. His size and pace is what frightens defenders. None of them want to see him running at them, which he has scarcely done this season. Playing with his back to goal doesn't work for him, doesn't help that his hold up play and first touch are often poor, as when he's statuesque defenders are able to handle him.

Lately we have had a number of posters defend Lukaku in saying he doesn't get enough service. To be honest, i feel a lot of that is down to himself. For me, his reading of the game is poor. His movement off the ball leaves a lot to be desired and improved upon and this contributes to his lack of opportunities.....he's simply not putting himself in enough positions for his team mates to find him. If you watch when United have the ball 10 to 15 yards out from goal he isn't trying to find room in behind off the shoulder of his marker. Compare this to the movement of Kane, Aguero, Morata, Jesus, etc. He's essentially more re-active than pro-active.

Fully agree. His movement yesterday was very poor. And not once did he make a near post run . I hate been critical of a player only a few months at the club but I would be concerned that he just hasn't got the quality required. I thought it strange when we scored both goals he turned to the stands trying to get the crowd going. It was himself that needed the gee up not the fans

Trigger

jayo26 wrote: »

Is that for his big toe?

:pac: that’s what I thought myself, he’s out of favour at the moment and isn’t happy supposedly..

There is another rumour of 120m euro for Sandro and Dybala

adox

I think Lukakus movement is fine. It favors early runs it seems, especially if the opposition are further up the pitch. The amount of times I see him making runs when Utd have the ball in midfield and he is ignored is quite high. I think he is excellent at making early runs, Be it looking for a through ball or running 8nto the channels.

I think where he does fall down a bit is when he’s near or in the box. It doesn’t seem to anticipate things as quickly as he should. Sometimes he seems to be caught on his heels.

Anyway overall I’m really happy with him. Again it’s easy to get carried away when looking at a small sample size. Sure a few weeks ago weren’t there some on here giving out about Lingard being on £100,000 a week and that he would never be good enough for the first team and now everyone more or less thinks he should be an automatic starter.

jayo26

astradave wrote: »

:pac: that’s what I thought myself, he’s out of favour at the moment and isn’t happy supposedly..

There is another rumour of 120m euro for Sandro and Dybala

Why is he out of favour? He has had a great goal scoring return this year.

pjohnson

Turtwig wrote: »

Pep.

Allegri, Conte, peak Jose when AVB was his assistant, Klopp (his Dortmund side were more than capable of defending), Simeone, possibly also Blanc, would push that potential of the squad far more too imo.

Maybe none would get 17/20 wins but they'd all improve the performances of the squad. It's actually a very decent squad.

decent just about covers it.

The 3 LVG defenders I mentioned earlier dont cut it as they are mostly 3rd choice at best.

In midfield: Mkhitaryan has been dreadful, Herrera has suddenly been shocking this year, Fellaini apparently wants new pastures so cant see how he can put in maximum performances if his mind has wandered elsewhere. Carrick has been struggling with that heart issue thing most of the season and not made a league appearance thats a lot of the squad already that arent up to it.

Up Front Ibra unsurprisingly seems to still be in the process of regaining fitness.

We have depth greater than rivals but in terms of quality we dont and midfield is a disaster.

Trigger

jayo26 wrote: »

Why is he out of favour? He has had a great goal scoring return this year.

He hadn’t scored in 8-10 games or something and then was dropped for 2 matches, Algeri had to come out and say that there was no rift between them such was the rumours..

He scored in their last game I think..

yabadabado

astradave wrote: »

So according to Gazzetta we have offered Juve 69m Euro for Dybala..

Bargain!
I don't think there is anything in the story but where do you play him?
If he plays no. 10 then that leaves Pogba in a 2 man midfield which doesn't work imo.

Rayne Wooney

We’ve spent a fortune but not got the squad to match.

The combined price for Pogba and Lukaku is looking ridiculous now for the standard they put out on a weekly basis, yes they are not bad but they are not noticeably very good either.

Sure we can say in an ideal world 2 years from now when they may have world class players around them they’ll raise their standard, but we need them to perform now and that ideal scenario may never happen. We’ve struggled with the quality of players for a number of years now.

Being better than Chelsea, Liverpool, Arsenal and Spurs is an obvious positive, but not being the best in the league shouldn’t be acceptable.

The_Kew_Tour

You really could do with a Gary Neville or Roy Keane type.

problem is not many of them about

jayo26

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

Being better than Chelsea, Liverpool, Arsenal and Spurs is an obvious positive, but not being the best in the league shouldn’t be acceptable.

But that's the thing who is saying it's acceptable?

Lads are running in and out of here with the knickers in a twist saying standards have dropped and what not. It's not that standards have dropped no one wants to finish second but it can't be fixed right now and changing the manager would not get us past city either no way would it.

Only way we can get closer to city is investing on the squad the same way they have got to where they are.

Trigger

yabadabado wrote: »

Bargain!
I don't think there is anything in the story but where do you play him?
If he plays no. 10 then that leaves Pogba in a 2 man midfield which doesn't work imo.

If we were to buy him, against the smaller teams I have no problem playing Pogba in a 2 as we would spend the majority of the game attacking, against the bigger teams I’d play a 352 with him and Lukaku up front..

secman

[quote="Rayne Wooney;105657406"

Being better than Chelsea, Liverpool, Arsenal and Spurs is an obvious positive, but not being the best in the league shouldn’t be acceptable.[/quote]

The gaps to those sides is reducing very quickly, we haven't played well for quite a while , are not winning the "handy" list that is often bandied about in here when we are under pressure for results. And we have to play all the "big" sides again. It's not inconceivable that we could finish 5th or 6th. Hopefully not, Obviously, but not overly confident based on our current form.

rob316

While Jose is talking about money United have £90m centre forward, a £90m midfielder. Big spending man City have none of these in fact their record transfer is £54m for KDB. United have badly spent that is the difference. So many mediocre players for big fees.

StringerBell

You can spin things many ways.

adox

rob316 wrote: »

While Jose is talking about money United have £90m centre forward, a £90m midfielder. Big spending man City have none of these in fact their record transfer is £54m for KDB. United have badly spent that is the difference. So many mediocre players for big fees.

Utd didn’t spend £90 million on Lukaku. Also picking two of Utds biggest transfers doesn’t really prove anything.

There’s little evidence that Utd have spent poorly under Jose.

Also big spending City have spent more than Utd. It’s a fact. Just because their transfer record signing is less than two of Utds is totally irrelevant to money spent.

I do agree though that Utd spent poorly overall under Van Gaal.

DM_7

Considering how good Lukaku was versus Leicester talk of a lack of contribution does not stack up.

Yesterday for him was more about fatique. He could not even get a night off in a league cup match I am not surprised to see him looking tired right now.

He has 27 starts, 2 sub ons and 15 goals with one game left in 2017. He is not one of the problems at United but he could do with some rest before he gets an injury. Have to factor in his size as well.

jimmytwotimes 2013

We currently sit in 2nd place having spent last year almost exclusively in 6th place. I think José has done a very good job so far.

He has inherited a number of issues from a disastrous period since Fergie's retirement. Our signings across three managers have reflected different philosophies and Woodward seemed obsessed with marquee names rather than what the club needed. Di Maria, Schweinsteiger and Falcao for example.

Even prior to Fergie's departure our signings were affected by the leveraged buyout and Van Persie's goals papered over some serious cracks.

Paul Scholes stopped coming out of retirement too which hasn't helped!

The club currently has a squad of mostly B-list pro's who are grand to fill out a squad but don't make up a first 11 that will compete for the Premier/Champions League.

Is this José's fault? Partly, as Lindelof and Mkhitaryan are his signings but mostly we're suffering now from the mismanagement of the club going back 10 years.

I don't see that another change of manager will help and José is making progress bit we're coming from a good but behind City and Chelsea.

rob316

adox wrote: »

Utd didn’t spend £90 million on Lukaku. Also picking two of Utds biggest transfers doesn’t really prove anything.

There’s little evidence that Utd have spent poorly under Jose.

Also big spending City have spent more than Utd. It’s a fact. Just because their transfer record signing is less than two of Utds is totally irrelevant to money spent.

I do agree though that Utd spent poorly overall under Van Gaal.

Yes it does prove something. It proves that United want to be the big dog that breaks transfer records. Show that they can spend huge on 1 player.
The reality is, is that the creativity is poor in this United side and that falls on mourinho. Why didn't he buy a creative winger and a centre forward out of the money he spent on lukaku? Other managers could build a better squad with the funds at his disposal.
Jose has come up against a manager who plays vibrant attacking football and who has bought well money is only part of the problem.

United spent £180m on 2 players, city bought 4 players for that with a greater impact.

adox

rob316 wrote: »

Yes it does prove something. It proves that United want to be the big dog that breaks transfer records. Show that they can spend huge on 1 player.
The reality is, is that the creativity is poor in this United side and that falls on mourinho. Why didn't he buy a creative winger and a centre forward out of the money he spent on lukaku? Other managers could build a better squad with the funds at his disposal.
Jose has come up against a manager who plays vibrant attacking football and who has bought well money is only part of the problem.

United spent £180m on 2 players, city bought 4 players for that with a greater impact.

Jose did try to sign a winger in the summer. Do you think Pogba and Lukaku were poor signings? Also the starting point for both managers with their respective clubs were vastly different.
There’s more than one way to play football. And (yes I’m saying it again for those it annoys) Utd are the second highest scorers in the league!

Utd didn’t spend £190 million on two players.

The rest of your post is just waffle, revisionist spin. You don’t sound in anyway subjective with your views.

pjohnson

rob316 wrote: »

Yes it does prove something. It proves that United want to be the big dog that breaks transfer records. Show that they can spend huge on 1 player.
The reality is, is that the creativity is poor in this United side and that falls on mourinho. Why didn't he buy a creative winger and a centre forward out of the money he spent on lukaku? Other managers could build a better squad with the funds at his disposal.
Jose has come up against a manager who plays vibrant attacking football and who has bought well money is only part of the problem.

United spent £180m on 2 players, city bought 4 players for that with a greater impact.

Jose did want a winger......

Your Airbag

Lord TSC wrote: »

This meant something five years back when Fergie was with us.

The sad fact is "We're Man United" for the last 4 years has meant battling for the top four, and failing at times too.

There's issues in the squad, but it's really getting tiring that there's the usual 5 or 6 people who are always ready to pop in when the team draw or lose calling for Jose's head, utterly ignoring all the progress thats been made in the last 12 months. The same posters who, btw, are barely posting when we win games.

We were badly, badly damaged by Moyes and Van Gaal, and jose is very clearly taking us in the right direction. But, it's a process. If you think any manager was going to walk in, or would walk in now, and have us topping the table after the damage done under Van Gaal and Moyes, you are very, very wrong, and very, very ignorant.



Unied's issue is less a "scattergun" and more that we've changed philosophies a few times; Van Gaal's players aren't good in jose's system. If Jose retains the backing of the board and continues to replace the players from before he arrived with the same level as he has been, we'll catch up with City. Pep, ultimately, joined with a better foundation in place for him. Jose was presented the ruins of a house, and people are annoyed that the walls are all up but the roof isn't on yet. But we are moving in the right direction.

I'm sorry but this post was pure nonsense. I've heard you say that Jose is taking us in the right direction a few times now and we have clearly improved.

No he hasn't, you must be seeing something I'm not. In LVG's first season he took UTD from 7th to 4th place and back into the UCL. Then he regressed to 5th place the next season. When Jose took over from LVG he took us too 6th place in his first season. He has never yet finished above LVG and only a place above Moyes as yet so this idea he has massively improved us is pure fiction. Its too early to call yet, we may finish second this season and then you'll have more of a case but given how we are playing lately that's in doubt.

The football may be better this season under Jose, thats very subjective though. LVG always had us playing well against the top 6, he had a tactical plan for each. Jose has us parking the bus away at Anfield and home to City winning neither matches. During the City game and following game at home to Bournemouth both teams just strolled right threw our midfield right to our box we were sitting so deep and have a non existent MF at times.

After our strong start this season some of the football has been very very poor. We can spank some bottom table fodder 4 nil when everyone's fresh at the start of the season but there is no plan or style to this team, the players look confused when we are behind as what to do, its like if we are not 2 or 3 goals up and shutting up shop for the final whistle they struggle in how to attack and what to do. PLayers not showing for the ball when they should, Matic and Pogba not communicating and both going forward at the same time instead of covering, leaving us exposed. Its all very sloppy.

Jose has spent close to 300m and we are possibly 15 pts behind City today and the league is over and its not even January. CIty have been amazing but the gap should not be 15 pts, it should be 5pts with some of the matches we let slip. Its simply not good enough.

I was worried about Jose's ego before he took over and he has been his usual grumpy self, taking shots at the fans, players and coming out with the odd poor excuse for losses.

The squad needs tonnes of work still, he has signed good players but cant get the most out of them. Miki could be gone and for me Lukaku is very unpredictable.

Progress and right direction my backside. Jose is getting plenty of valid and well deserved criticism here. Unless he has a good January window and a good run in the UCL and we show signs of improvement in the 2nd half of the season he could be in danger.

Personally if we don't win anything and finish outside the top 3 I would want him gone.

J. Marston

clubberlang12 wrote: »

Didn't bother looking at this or the match thread during the game and only read a bit of them afterwards. Not sure if it has been mentioned but i feel Lukaku is becoming a serious problem for us when defending set pieces. For all the talk of him being exceptional in the air, yesterday was another example quite the opposite for me. His attempt to head the ball for their goal is pathetic in truth. He is becoming a real liability back there.

Agree with that. Yesterday, the two goals against City, the almost own goal against Arsenal. All sloppy/non clearances from about 6 yards out. He's probably being targeted now at set-pieces.

It would probably be safer to leave him up front for counter attacks at this stage.

pjohnson

Your Airbag wrote: »

The football may be better this season under Jose, thats very subjective though. LVG always had us playing well against the top 6, he had a tactical plan for each. Jose has us parking the bus away at Anfield and home to City winning neither matches. During the City game and following game at home to Bournemouth both teams just strolled right threw our midfield right to our box we were sitting so deep and have a non existent MF at times.

I love this line when people harken back to the heady glory days of LVG. Playing good against top 6 excuses the fact that LVG would regularly struggle to break down the other 14 teams. Theres a reason we have more points now than we had under LVG.

yabadabado

jimmytwotimes 2013 wrote: »

The club currently has a squad of mostly B-list pro's who are grand to fill out a squad but don't make up a first 11 that will compete for the Premier/Champions League.

Is this Jos fault? Partly, as Lindelof and Mkhitaryan are his signings but mostly we're suffering now from the mismanagement of the club going back 10 years.

I don't see that another change of manager will help and Joss making progress bit we're coming from a good but behind City and Chelsea.

I think Jose signings have been more hit than miss. OK it looks like Miki is done but Lindelof will come good imo and has shown plenty of signs he will.

Jose is still sorting out the mess of previous managers and is going in the right direction. A winger and cm is badly needed and then full backs probably next.
Would love to get in a proper authoritive CM to line up with Matic and Pogba we are missing leaders all over the pitch. Too many lads are like mice out on the pitch, need a few vocal players.