Manchester United Thread..The Final Chapter of 17? (MOD WARNINGS IN OP)

JPA

Lord TSC wrote: »

And this shows me that you've not watched much of us this season, or are resorting to a lazy "Jose = bus parking" narrative.

Our issue in the last three games has not been one of being overly defensive. We mauled Leicester and had multiple one on ones we should have scored. That game could have been 5-2 or 6-2 easily. Against Southampton, we had them pinned into their box for the entire game. They barely had sniffs on goal, and had the bus firmly parked for most of the game.

We've tried "defensive" (counter attacking) football in two games this season; Pool and City. In pretty much every other game, the tactics have very obviously called for high lines and trying to pin teams back. We've failed in those tactics a few times (Chelsea, for example, loved the amount of space they had), and a few times the players have got pinned back themselves. But the tactics this season have very clearly (imo anyway) been to try and dominate games offensively.

Player wise, we can't seem to launch counter attacks; there seems to be at least once a game where two or three of our guys break, out number the defense, and then just waste the ball in a pub-league manner. Rashford against Leicester failing to pass to Pogba or Lukaku in a 3 on 1 situation, Mkhi yesterday failing to pass to Rashford or Lingard in a 3 on 2, as examples.

Yesterday was not a game of showing Southampton too much respect and going ultra-negative football; it was a game of the players, as has been evident for years now, not knowing how to break down a bus. If Pogba has an off game and doesn't have a moment of magic, we're screwed; Rashford will take pot shots from a mile out, Martial and Lingard will charge head first into 7 defenders, and Mata will be hanging outside the box watching on.

Those issues are all solvable by good coaching. Jose wants world class players that simply know what to do in attacking positions, Conte and Pep will coach and teach tactics and movement in extreme detail. Now I don't think Jose is a coach as such but he has an army of them working for him.
Blaming the players is way off IMO.

Kerrydude1981

Robson99 wrote: »

The reason there are so many gaps is because we are playing way too deep. Look at us yesterday. Let soton have the ball all the way up to the edge of our box. It may not be parking the bus but its negative.
We can blame all the players but until the manager changes his outdated tactics we are going nowhere. The game has moved on from his way of winning

At the start of the season Utd played a lot higher up the pitch,pundits were pointing it out about Matic for example and the areas he was winning the ball,for some reason the manager has changed his tactics,

When you look at City most of the time they move up the pitch together as a team,there is no gap,Utd move up the pitch and they dont all go together,then they are all over the place at times when the ball is turned over

Tylerdurex

Nalz wrote: »

City will draw today

You had to say it didn't you . LOL

bucketybuck

Sgt Pepper 64 wrote: »

some bloke called paul scholes disagrees..after beating spurs 1-0

Appeal to authority is a logical fallacy I believe.

More to the point, he is right, you must not have watched our games. The claim that United are playing park the bus defensive football is simply not accurate.

GSPfan wrote: »

I’ve just noticed something in the middle of my ramblings. General question for all - Can you remember us catching anyone offside this season?

Probably a side effect of the fact that we have a revolving door in terms of defensive line-ups.

bangkok

Nalz wrote: »

City will draw today

Even if they lose 5-0 it wouldnt make a difference
League is over

Kerrydude1981

bangkok wrote: »

Even if they lose 5-0 it wouldnt make a difference
League is over

The best league in the world is now the best dead rubber league in the world

bangkok

Kerrydude1981 wrote: »

The best league in the world is now the best dead rubber league in the world

La liga, bundesliga and french league are also all over before the new year has begun

bangkok

Happy birthday to the greatest of them all and how we all wish he was still in charge...Sir Alex Ferguson


Legend

tinpib

Lord TSC wrote: »

Two teams spent more than us in the summer. Those two teams are above us at the end of 2017. Do you think that's a coincidence?

You can laugh at net spend if you like, but Chelsea's in 2017/18 is -€3.3mill according to transfermarkt

So no, they haven't spent more than United.

Kerrydude1981

bangkok wrote: »

La liga, bundesliga and french league are also all over before the new year has begun

A fella might have to start watching Serie A again

RobbingBandit

fosu mensah giving fergie a birthday gift with that performance, not many defenders that can hold off city the way he has done today, pity it's a game of two halfs hope palace stand tall.

pjohnson

Ashley charged. Will miss the next 3 games.

Should allow Shaw to continue his run.

wanderer100

pjohnson wrote: »

Ashley charged. Will miss the next 3 games.

Should allow Shaw to continue his run.

Hope Valencia is back soon. I have no faith in Darmian. He is bang average

pjohnson

wanderer100 wrote: »

Hope Valencia is back soon. I have no faith in Darmian. He is bang average

Darmian is injured aswell afaik. Lindelöf probably go RB.

Leroy42

Jose really needs to get his finger out and sort this out. I know it is his 'thing' to blame everyone else and try to create conspiracies, but 18 months into a very expensive project he certainly looks like he has run out of ideas.

The team started off the season well, but have regressed massively and things are simply not working at the moment.

He seems lost to me, like he really doesn't know what to do. Players do not seem to be developing under him. Pogba, Martial, Rashford, Lukaku. Apart from some fringe type players (Young, Lingard, Valencia) who really should at most squad players, Jose team is currently performing well below the sum of their parts rather than above it.

Kerrydude1981

Lord TSC

bucketybuck wrote: »

Appeal to authority is a logical fallacy I believe.

More to the point, he is right, you must not have watched our games. The claim that United are playing park the bus defensive football is simply not accurate.

It's a nice and easy narrative to peddle, that opposition fans and those who don't like Jose have been waiting for a bad run of form to push.

There are genuine issues. But that genuinely isn't one at the moment.

GSPfan

Ha ha ha. That video is great.

GSPfan

Palace have 10 minutes to hold out. They have defended well. City just look so threatening.

Hococop

GSPfan wrote: »

Palace have 10 minutes to hold out. They have defended well. City just look so threatening.

I'm saying it sterling will get a late winner again

Rossi IRL

Hococop wrote: »

I'm saying it sterling will get a late winner again

Just gave away a pen lol

Edit: missed ffs

GSPfan

Ahhh ffs Palace. Wasted chance to end City’s unbeaten run. End their winning run and I’ll forgive ya’s.

wanderer100

Fcuk off Palace. Horrific penalty

jimmytwotimes 2013

https://twitter.com/GNev2/status/947449636721184768

Nalz

Nalz wrote: »

City will draw today

I apologize for the pen miss

GSPfan

Pity that result makes no impact on our chances to win anything. It’s just enjoyable to see that win record end.

RobbingBandit

Two vital players off for city, injuries are a sad part of football palace missing that peno was rough to watch, wonder will we recall fosu mensah now if he put in performances like that we'd be quite happy here.

Lord TSC

jimmytwotimes 2013 wrote: »

https://twitter.com/GNev2/status/947449636721184768

For people who can't see Gary Neville's tweet (and the subsequent ones too).

On United. We should be closer to City irrespective of their incredible run but city did have a better squad than united when Jose came in. . The recruitment under LVG / DM all over the place. The club should be signing players that suit the values not being taken from tbc

One extreme to another by managers with differing principles. It’s a very costly exercise and means the waste is huge. The players signed by Jose are much better and more aligned to the clubs values. He should be supported in the TM with more players that meet the club ethic.

When asked to "Man up and say who should be sold"

95% of the players LVG and DM bought!!

wanderer100

Happy to see their winning streak come to an end but the damage is already well and truly done.

With De Bruyne, Silva and Jesus out maybe City will struggle in the upcoming games but I wouldn't hold my breath. The depth in that squad is fantastic

adox

Shocking challenge on De Bruyne. How it wasn’t a red I’ll never know.

Hodgson doing a great job at Palace. Nice to see after the ridicule he got post Liverpool.

GSPfan

adox wrote: »

Shocking challenge on De Bruyne. How it wasn’t a red I’ll never know.

Hodgson doing a great job at Palace. Nice to see after the ridicule he got post Liverpool.

Jaysus I totally forgot he was Liverpool manager.

yabadabado

Lord TSC wrote: »

For people who can't see Gary Neville's tweet (and the subsequent ones too).

On United. We should be closer to City irrespective of their incredible run but city did have a better squad than united when Jose came in. . The recruitment under LVG / DM all over the place. The club should be signing players that suit the values not being taken from tbc

One extreme to another by managers with differing principles. It’s a very costly exercise and means the waste is huge. The players signed by Jose are much better and more aligned to the clubs values. He should be supported in the TM with more players that meet the club ethic.

When asked to "Man up and say who should be sold"

95% of the players LVG and DM bought!!

Neville is right and I think it's where a DoF might prevent wasting money.
There clearly needs to be a overhaul of the squad plenty just haven't been good enough.

GSPfan

Would a Director of Football be a person who is qualified by experience in the role elsewhere or is it best to have someone who knows the club intimately?

Would Neville be good at it for instance? Or maybe another former player?

bangkok

If the coutinho to barca is going ahead then surely griezmann will be joining us

bangkok

GSPfan wrote: »

Would a Director of Football be a person who is qualified by experience in the role elsewhere or is it best to have someone who knows the club intimately?

Would Neville be good at it for instance? Or maybe another former player?

What would the point of a dof be?? Jose would have no say then in player purchases and he would purely be the coach. I think it would ve a terrible idea

deaddonkey15

Frustrating result today. We've dropped 6 points in the last week that, had we not dropped, would have the current gap at 9 points. Not completely out of the question to overcome that.

GSPfan

bangkok wrote: »

What would the point of a dof be?? Jose would have no say then in player purchases and he would purely be the coach. I think it would ve a terrible idea

That’s not true. It doesn’t work like that. It works in other clubs so not sure how you can dismiss it as a terrible idea.

Also.... for someone like yourself who wants Jose gone I’d think you would be for it as it ensures player purchases from manager to manager are overseen by someone with a long term vision as the managers are more frequently becoming short term appointments.

wanderer100

deaddonkey15 wrote: »

Frustrating result today. We've dropped 6 points in the last week that, had we not dropped, would have the current gap at 9 points. Not completely out of the question to overcome that.

Ugh a 9 point gap in December isn't bad at all. We only have ourselves to blame. We've thrown it away now. Can't see a way a back

Leroy42

wanderer100 wrote: »

Ugh a 9 point gap in December isn't bad at all. We only have ourselves to blame. We've thrown it away now. Can't see a way a back

A way back? On current form we will be struggling to remain in the top 4.

yabadabado

bangkok wrote: »

What would the point of a dof be?? Jose would have no say then in player purchases and he would purely be the coach. I think it would ve a terrible idea

Continuity would be the main advantage. Of course a manager will still have a say in transfers and Jose has worked under similar situations before.

DoF works at dozens of clubs and I for one wouldn't mind seeing that route investigated.

Rayne Wooney

Woodward has overseen 7th, 4th, 5th, 6th place finishes and built a squad not capable of winning a major trophy.

The owners would keep him for the next decade however if the money keeps coming in, something he is obviously good at.

GSPfan

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

Woodward has overseen 7th, 4th, 5th, 6th place finishes and built a squad not capable of winning a major trophy.

The owners would keep him for the next decade however if the money keeps coming in, something he is obviously good at.

Where the fúck is our sleeve sponsor though? He needs to get the finger out cause Jose needs money.

DM_7

Good to see consideration of how United got to where they are rather than just where they are.

A DOF on its own is not enough, it is a whole division looking after the football side to create consistency in what the football side is trying to do.

The three managers recruited post Ferguson all with differant ideas. Yet players like Evans left but the new players arriving in his place at that time were no better.

I am not saying Evans would make much difference now but what was he point movig him on to spend money on someone not much much better?

One example of how few structures were in place without SAF (and Gill) is Rooney.

SAF was getting rid of him. Bye, gone, not good enough anymore, standard was falling. Fast forward to Moyes and Ed, new contract. Incredible, should never have happened. Was a sign of things to come tbh. Even more than the terrible attempts at recruiting that summer.

Your Airbag

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

Woodward has overseen 7th, 4th, 5th, 6th place finishes and built a squad not capable of winning a major trophy.

The owners would keep him for the next decade however if the money keeps coming in, something he is obviously good at.

haha, back to this nonsense again. Woodward is now over seeing league finishes just like a manager.

Woodward has bought some top players who the manager instructed him too. Jose is currently not doing good enough, like Moyes and LVG didn't. Thats where the buck rightly stops.

Fitz*

I see Woodward is now getting the blame for the on-pitch troubles....


https://twitter.com/RobDawsonESPN/status/762292899803500544

https://twitter.com/RobDawsonESPN/status/762899926242172928

yabadabado

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

Woodward has overseen 7th, 4th, 5th, 6th place finishes and built a squad not capable of winning a major trophy.

The owners would keep him for the next decade however if the money keeps coming in, something he is obviously good at.

Can't really blame him for that. I'd expect the managers picked the players they wanted, he went out and bought them or tried to.If the manager/players aren't up to it is that his fault?
Woodward has done an incredible job at the club but he simply may not have the knowledge of the recruitment side of things, no shame in that.

Turtwig

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

Woodward has overseen 7th, 4th, 5th, 6th place finishes and built a squad not capable of winning a major trophy.

The owners would keep him for the next decade however if the money keeps coming in, something he is obviously good at.

He has pretty much got the coaches almost every player they requested. Heck, he even got Moyes Mata in a bid to halt their decline.

TitianGerm

bangkok wrote: »

If the coutinho to barca is going ahead then surely griezmann will be joining us

Apparently they want both but they need to sell to free up funds.

bangkok

GSPfan wrote: »

That’s not true. It doesn’t work like that. It works in other clubs so not sure how you can dismiss it as a terrible idea.

Also.... for someone like yourself who wants Jose gone I’d think you would be for it as it ensures player purchases from manager to manager are overseen by someone with a long term vision as the managers are more frequently becoming short term appointments.

Damien Comolli was a disaster at liverpool. Sacked after 2 years.

Dof is a human as well, its not an unsackable job that he would be there for the long term. If he buys bad players he is ro blame.

Also i could never see jose allowing a dof at united. Looks what happened when abramovich forced schchenko on him. All ended badly

jimmytwotimes 2013

bangkok wrote: »

If the coutinho to barca is going ahead then surely griezmann will be joining us

He who shall remain nameless says Barca want both of them