Coolmine Level Crossing

Murt10

I got stuck in traffic at the little roundabout on Carpenterstown Road this morning from before 8.20 am until after 8.30 am. waiting to cross the lines at Coolmine train Station

All during this time, and longer (before I arrived), the level crossing gates remained closed.

Is CIE deliberately trying to see how much traffic mayhem it can cause. I have no problem with them closing the gates when a train is going through, but to leave them closed and causing a massive traffic back log, because they couldn't be bothered to open them up again, is beyond a joke.

Is this occurrence normal every morning? Does Leo ever get caught in it in his State car.

Do people complain?

cython

Signal fault this morning may (depending on exactly where and when) may have exacerbated things today, and caused more bunching around that time:

https://twitter.com/IrishRail/status/938669892647227393

Would be relevant to know how many trains passed through in that time, and at what intervals (actually passed through, not just were scheduled given the above), as to the best of my knowledge sections on the line are such that a train can't leave Clonsilla eastbound or Castleknock westbound without the gates at Coolmine closed. So 10 minute closure for even 3 or preferably 4 trains is actually understandable.

angryIreGamer

1 alternate route

https://goo.gl/maps/LFfj8hDKJ8H2

would have saved you 4 miuntes.

737max

If a u-turn were possible which often at rush hour isn't often possible.
I can empathise with the poster. suffered the same sort rage at Clonsilla and Porterstown level crossings, not Coolmine prior to and since the flyover being built.
CIE don't give a damn about motorists.

blanch152

737max wrote: »

If a u-turn were possible which often at rush hour isn't often possible.
I can empathise with the poster. suffered the same sort rage at Clonsilla and Porterstown level crossings, not Coolmine prior to and since the flyover being built.
CIE don't give a damn about motorists.

The problem isn't CIE.

The problem is the local residents who objected to a plan to replace the level crossing with a bridge in a nearby location.

Porterstown should be closed, no need for it, and Clonsilla should also be replaced with a bridge.

angryIreGamer

Damn people directly impacted by it.

we should of course make sure that the motorists convenience are paramount, forget the people who actually live there.

djan

angryIreGamer wrote: »

Damn people directly impacted by it.

we should of course make sure that the motorists convenience are paramount, forget the people who actually live there.

Living in the area, it was very foolish not to build it. There were options where it wouldn't impact anyone and only lead to much less traffic and hoards of people waiting around for ages during rush hours.

daymobrew

Back in March 2007 I recorded the opening and closing times of the level crossing. Someone from Blanchardstown Chamber of Commerce reported that the level crossing was going to be closed from 8-8:30am and 5-530pm (it wasn't true).
The level crossing was closed fo 8m56s that morning, not the 30 mins that someone had claimed in a comment on Joan Burton's site (that post is gone).

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=52952816


More people travel by train than drive across the level crossing so I think that those train users should have priority.

737max

daymobrew wrote: »

so I think that those train users should have priority.

how very even-handed of you.
I remember that thread because I contributed to it.

I have to cross level crossing tracks here in Germany and have never been delayed to the same extent I did in D15.
The trains run to schedule and you can predict that at a particular time the barriers will be down for 2 minutes. I look at the time on the clock in my car and I see I'll be passing through the level crossing at a time when the level crossing will be down and can make a decision to divert.
It is a lottery with the Irish Rail service as to when trains will be passing through the level crossings.
I stand over my statement "CIE don't give a damn about motorists" and extend it to say that they don't give a damn about their Customers either and their services are not punctual. They don't care if the barriers are down or if passengers are waiting on the platform in the rain for 5 to 10 minutes more or arrive at their destination 5, 10 or 15 minutes late.

blanch152

737max wrote: »

how very even-handed of you.
I remember that thread because I contributed to it.

I have to cross level crossing tracks here in Germany and have never been delayed to the same extent I did in D15.
The trains run to schedule and you can predict that at a particular time the barriers will be down for 2 minutes. I look at the time on the clock in my car and I see I'll be passing through the level crossing at a time when the level crossing will be down and can make a decision to divert.
It is a lottery with the Irish Rail service as to when trains will be passing through the level crossings.
I stand over my statement "CIE don't give a damn about motorists" and extend it to say that they don't give a damn about their Customers either and their services are not punctual. They don't care if the barriers are down or if passengers are waiting on the platform in the rain for 5 to 10 minutes more or arrive at their destination 5, 10 or 15 minutes late.

It would cost a lot more to upgrade the signalling system to allow for shorter closures than it would to install two bridges at Coolmine and Clonsilla.

However, the short-sighted nature of objections to developments in Ireland trumps all. Incredibly, there were some people who would see reduced traffic and therefore safer roads for their children who objected to Coolmine closing based on some fear of increased anti-social behaviour.

737max

Exclusive Or (XOR) for signalling and bridges together?

cython

737max wrote: »

Exclusive Or (XOR) for signalling and bridges together?

Assuming you are asking whether the poster is suggesting that the two solutions are mutually exclusive, then of course they are not, but ultimately they would be looking at solving the same problem, so really only one is necessary.

Further, if electrification of the Maynooth line is to proceed, the full benefit of that will only be realised if interactions between the railway and roads are eliminated. Otherwise increased frequency will just see the level crossing gates closed for extended as more trains pass through.

Not to mention that Irish road users can't be trusted to interact with level crossings - just look at the mess that was made this year by a bin lorry and a cyclist colliding with the barriers at Coolmine earlier this year on separate occasions.

737max

So everyone except CIE is to blame although they are the only ones who decide when the barriers go down.
The treat the populace with contempt. Those motorists are also their would be Customers at other times of the day or week.
It isn't tolerated here.

cython

737max wrote: »

So everyone except CIE is to blame although they are the only ones who decide when the barriers go down.
The treat the populace with contempt. Those motorists are also their would be Customers at other times of the day or week.
It isn't tolerated here.

The location of Coolmine and Clonsilla crossings directly adjacent to the stations is the crux of this problem - the Clonsilla gates have to be closed before eastbound trains can enter the section approaching Clonsilla, and likewise Coolmine gates must be closed before westbound trains can approach. This is a safety restriction should the train brakes fail, or it overshoot the station for whatever reason. The other option would be to introduce a similar speed limit to that imposed on trains on the quays in Wexford town (this is something like 5-10 km/h), which also won't fly as it would render the train service less than useless. I also expect that the CRR have as much if not more say in the requirements around closing crossings as Irish Rail, simply in terms of dictating policies, etc.

Unfortunately this means that the respective level crossings also have to remain closed while the trains are in the stations. No change to signalling is going to prevent remove this particular component of the crossing closure either, hence closing or bridging the crossings is the obvious solution. This is nothing to do with CIE having contempt for the public, and that entire notion is you skewing it to suit your rant.

737max

10 years on from the earlier thread and the problem is still there.
How can Ireland be a century behind mainland Europe.
Answer; a decade at a time, a decade at a time.

My problem with Ireland isn't just that nothing ever works as it should but that you have a queue of people lining up to excuse it ...and nothing gets done.

Those trains stopping at clonsilla and coolmine would not be causing problems at porterstown if they only ran to timetable.

and where I live the geography is much more challenging than in Coolmine/Clonsilla. It is a very steep valley with a broad river running though it so I have no time for this rubbish about technical difficulties
...and not only are passenger trains running on this route but also freight locomotives near a kilometre long lugging aggregates and cars.
I still don't have the dread for this level crossing that I had for those ones in Blanch.

beauf

Why do you choose to go over the level crossing at peak time when there is huge bridge 700m one side of it, and another 1500m in the other direction.

Is it because both of those bridges have traffic queues of them for hours at peak in both directions?
Building another bridge into already congested area will not fix the problems of traffic. It will at best move it 5 mins down the road.
Off peak there is no problem using those other bridges.

beauf

blanch152 wrote: »

It would cost a lot more to upgrade the signalling system to allow for shorter closures than it would to install two bridges at Coolmine and Clonsilla.

However, the short-sighted nature of objections to developments in Ireland trumps all. Incredibly, there were some people who would see reduced traffic and therefore safer roads for their children who objected to Coolmine closing based on some fear of increased anti-social behaviour.

It won't reduce traffic at coolmine, or make the roads safer. Just like Dr Troy bridge it will be like a magnet for more traffic, and the majority of that will be rat running though area. The design for the coolmine bridge starts and ends in two small estates. The Riverwood site is already plagued with traffic and speeding, hence its destroyed with ramps.

The only advantage of removing the crossing will be increase in frequency in the trains. Which will make being packed like sardines a bit more bearable as will be for shorter.

blanch152

beauf wrote: »

It won't reduce traffic at coolmine, or make the roads safer. Just like Dr Troy bridge it will be like a magnet for more traffic, and the majority of that will be rat running though area. The design for the coolmine bridge starts and ends in two small estates. The Riverwood site is already plagued with traffic and speeding, hence its destroyed with ramps.

The only advantage of removing the crossing will be increase in frequency in the trains. Which will make being packed like sardines a bit more bearable as will be for shorter.

The level crossing starts and ends in two small estates as well. There is little difference between the two set-ups. The traffic just moves from one to the other, except that there is no delay with the level crossing. In fact the road down to Stationcourt is separated from the housing estate, a much better arrangement.

When you consider that a large estate like Delwood would lose through traffic and be much quieter, there is a larger benefit to the community in general than is lost to the two small estates.

beauf

blanch152 wrote: »

The level crossing starts and ends in two small estates as well. There is little difference between the two set-ups. The traffic just moves from one to the other, except that there is no delay with the level crossing. In fact the road down to Stationcourt is separated from the housing estate, a much better arrangement.

When you consider that a large estate like Delwood would lose through traffic and be much quieter, there is a larger benefit to the community in general than is lost to the two small estates.

Incorrect. Its not in any estate roads at the moment. Its on the original coolmine road. Which existed before these estates.

It might be fine on the Stationcourt side its isn't on the other side.

Delwood won't lose through traffic as its the main route to a school, a shopping center, medical centre and also a rat run down to castleknock road. Its also a rat run in reverse to the traffic trying to get to the clonsilla road an people trying to go around coolmine cross jams. If anything a new bridge will bring more traffic to the area.

But I don't think anyone here knows the area that well, the only focus seems to be about driving through it.

blanch152

beauf wrote: »

Incorrect. Its not in any estate roads at the moment. Its on the original coolmine road. Which existed before these estates.

It might be fine on the Stationcourt side its isn't on the other side.

Delwood won't lose through traffic as its the main route to a school, a shopping center, medical centre and also a rat run down to castleknock road. Its also a rat run in reverse to the traffic trying to get to the clonsilla road an people trying to go around coolmine cross jams. If anything a new bridge will bring more traffic to the area.

But I don't think anyone here knows the area that well, the only focus seems to be about driving through it.

I know the area very well, walk through it, drive through it, get a train from it, sit on a bus through it etc. all the time. The benefits to the area from replacing the level crossing with that bridge far far outweigh the costs.

Former Former

The idea of building a new bridge and level crossing between Station Court and Riverwood is absolute fantasy. Iarnrod Eireann were deluding themselves if they thought it was viable and I really hope no-one is spending any time or money on it.

blanch152

Former Former wrote: »

The idea of building a new bridge and level crossing between Station Court and Riverwood is absolute fantasy. Iarnrod Eireann were deluding themselves if they thought it was viable and I really hope no-one is spending any time or money on it.

There is no other possible alternative to the Coolmine Level Crossing. Either they build that bridge in the next few years or the increased train frequency which will inevitably come will make the traffic ten times worse.

beauf

Passing through is entirely different to living in the effected area's. Its like speed ramps. Someone passing through might not want them, doesn't see a problem. Someone living in the road, who can't cross the road because of speeding cars, would have an entirely different view point.

I'm not sure why you are focused on the costs. I think there is a broad understanding that signalling on the line will be upgraded and the crossing removed at some point. I got the impression from other threads that thus far there was a higher bang for buck (and political will) to improve the frequency of the Dart line than the Maynooth line. I don't think local disputes about the location of bridges or the cost of them is really whats delaying these improvements. Once they focus their attention on the Maynooth line. The bridges will be built regardless of local objections. Because that's whats happened with all other developments across Fingal. The developers win out.

737max

beauf wrote: »

at some point.

Ha!

beauf

Former Former wrote: »

The idea of building a new bridge and level crossing between Station Court and Riverwood is absolute fantasy. Iarnrod Eireann were deluding themselves if they thought it was viable and I really hope no-one is spending any time or money on it.

Well I feel for the people who will be effected negatively. But you can be sure it will happen eventually.

I think you have to forget the idea that if you are a house owner you have any say in what happens around you. More development and car traffic is king. Also D.15 is changing from the green quiet leafy suburb. Its going to turn into any of the suburbs around London that are within, 15~20 mins of a train journey.

blanch152 wrote: »

There is no other possible alternative to the Coolmine Level Crossing. Either they build that bridge in the next few years or the increased train frequency which will inevitably come will make the traffic ten times worse.

The traffic will get worse regardless. Because there will always be more traffic. The only way to not be effected by that, is to change to some other form of transport like bicycle or train.

Dr Troy bridge greatly increased traffic. Saying another bridge will have the opposite effect, doesn't make any sense.

beauf

737max wrote: »

Ha!

More people travelling through the area than living it it. Their greater numbers will have more political influence. Its a trend you already see on the boards forums.

737max

Is Blanch Road South not local enough.
It seems you think residents should be allowed build a ha-ha on their "own" roads and prevent ABSOLUTELY EVERYONE ELSE FROM PASSING THROUGH AS THEY DON'T MEET YOUR DEFINITION OF LOCAL.

This thread is typical of why nothing in Ireland improves.

Former Former

I have been getting this train for 20 years now (jesus...) and nothing I have seen in those years makes me think that IE are anyway bothered about it. Increasing frequency, improved signalling, electrification - I wouldn't be holding my breath on any of them and a brand new bridge with enormous road upgrades on the approaches would fall into the same category.

Any proposal to build a new bridge and massively increase traffic flows through long-established housing estates that were previously cul-de-sacs, as well as cutting right through a Waterways Ireland-controlled canal, is going to end up in front of An Bord Pleanala anyway, it won't be Fingal's decision. Throw a heap of compulsory purchase orders into the mix and you'd wonder if IE would bother.

blanch152

Former Former wrote: »

I have been getting this train for 20 years now (jesus...) and nothing I have seen in those years makes me think that IE are anyway bothered about it. Increasing frequency, improved signalling, electrification - I wouldn't be holding my breath on any of them and a brand new bridge with enormous road upgrades on the approaches would fall into the same category.

Any proposal to build a new bridge and massively increase traffic flows through long-established housing estates that were previously cul-de-sacs, as well as cutting right through a Waterways Ireland-controlled canal, is going to end up in front of An Bord Pleanala anyway, it won't be Fingal's decision. Throw a heap of compulsory purchase orders into the mix and you'd wonder if IE would bother.

From what I remember of the plan it was FCC proposing it, not IE.

amtc

Maybe our Taoiseach living in Rose haven may change attitudes!

beauf

737max wrote: »

Is Blanch Road South not local enough.
It seems you think residents should be allowed build a ha-ha on their "own" roads and prevent ABSOLUTELY EVERYONE ELSE FROM PASSING THROUGH AS THEY DON'T MEET YOUR DEFINITION OF LOCAL.

This thread is typical of why nothing in Ireland improves.

Blanch Road South links directly to the existing Dr Troy Bridge. Maybe you could explain why you need another identical bridge 500m away from that one, to do exactly the same thing.

I don't get your point about locals, as all routes current and proposed go all go through Riverwood. The issue isn't access, its volume.