Killing of Daniel Shaver.

J. Marston

Only saw this now. Absolutely incredible how the cop got away with this.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-42277309

Full video of the incident. Be warned, it's distressing to watch. A terrified, innocent, man being mentally tortured by a fúcking psycho before being shot dead.

https://twitter.com/ShaunKing/status/939014159726870530

The same psycho with this etched on his gun...



Not guilty. No wonder people are terrified of cops over there.

gctest50

J. Marston wrote: »

A terrified, innocent, man being .....

He ( Shaver ) invited two acquaintances to his room for drinks.
There he showed them a scoped rifle

Hotel guests near the pool notified the front desk that someone was pointing a rifle out a fifth floor window.
The hotel immediately notified the police.





He stopped and reached behind him :


It looked like he was reaching for a gun :

end of the road

gctest50 wrote: »

He ( Shaver ) invited two acquaintances to his room for drinks.
There he showed them a scoped rifle

Hotel guests near the pool notified the front desk that someone was pointing a rifle out a fifth floor window.
The hotel immediately notified the police.





He stopped and reached behind him :


It looked like he was reaching for a gun :

sure it did.

Canis Lupus

That's a tough video hey.

My thoughts:

Looks like he went for something in his waistband but equally he's crawling on his knees and his shorts would have been falling down and it's just automatic to hitch them up.

Cop sounds like he's powertripping but equally he's making sure he's 100% unequivocally being understood and giving strict instructions. You have to bear in mind the cops were called to the premises under the idea that someone had been pointing a rifle out of a hotel window. They're not just there for a noise complaint. They're under the impression they're likely facing at least one armed person.

It doesn't feel right to say it but I probably side with the cop.

...__...

Id actually commented on something but had to watch 3 times aging as I wasn't sure I ended up deleting it as I was way wrong.

At 3 mins his partner should have cuffed him there would never be a situation after that.
they had a scared kid in a hotel possibly with a few drinks on him after showing his gf a good night and to end up like this is a disgrace.
ok he put his hand behind his back but it was very clear his coordination was disrupted before this.
he had 2 seconds to fire why not wait one of those to see if either he would not move thus any weapon would stay behind or two that the weapon would be in show.

stupid guns and stupid gung ho cops
shows only specialized units should be allowed carry them like in Ireland and the uk

Canis Lupus

...__... wrote: »

Id actually commented on something but had to watch 3 times aging as I wasn't sure I ended up deleting it as I was way wrong.

At 3 mins his partner should have cuffed him there would never be a situation after that.
they had a scared kid in a hotel possibly with a few drinks on him after showing his gf a good night and to end up like this is a disgrace.
ok he put his hand behind his back but it was very clear his coordination was disrupted before this.
he had 2 seconds to fire why not wait one of those to see if either he would not move thus any weapon would stay behind or two that the weapon would be in show.

stupid guns and stupid gung ho cops
shows only specialized units should be allowed carry them like in Ireland and the uk

Armchair SWAT analysis but there was a uncleared room no third person and rifle in sight. Can't cuff them until the room is cleared and can't clear the room with two people on the ground any of which could be armed.

Sh*tty situation all round. Would only happen in the states really.

jonon9

Believe what you want to believe but America has a very serious problem with guns and its bread through paranoia and upbringing. My opinion is America is too far gone to change the 2nd amendment too much time and money is invested in this. Remember the US 2nd amendment was written in a time where a solider could fire 2-3 rounds per minute, there was no way the founding fathers could predict that we would have semi/auto rifles that could blow your freaking head of in a matter of seconds. Like I said its all about upbringing and paranoia.

currants

That cop was way too stressed to be pointing a gun at anyone, his breathing, his squeaky, high pitched voice and the way he spoke to the young lad all show how far out of the correct zone for this type of situation he was.
You need people with a cool head to do this work, he was even losing it/snappy with his fellow officers ffs. That kid was shot for not obeying instructions being roared at him amidst death threats by a macho idiot who only escalated the tension and likelihood of him and the kid making a mistake.

...__...

Canis Lupus wrote: »

Armchair SWAT analysis but there was a uncleared room no third person and rifle in sight. Can't cuff them until the room is cleared and can't clear the room with two people on the ground any of which could be armed.

Sh*tty situation all round. Would only happen in the states really.

Where is the armchair in this scenario the only one is in the lobby.

Girl walks around the corner hands up and is cuffed
Guy walks round the corner hands up and on the ground no rifle in sight
at no point is a weapon on display and ample time to move in and cuff the prisoner. he could have easily been taken down same way as the girl.
no need to make him do the hokey kokey while pointing a weapon at him
and the room while not cleared was not in the field of fire.

there in a hall with hotel doors there self closing fire doors if the door was right behind them and partially open then yes there was a distinction but as the video shows that wasn't the case.

this was a scared guy who got conflusterd at so many demands shouted at him in a high stress situation he got confused.

cop was seriously over relying on his weapon and not common sense.
have the same scenario in Ireland and 2 strikes of a baton first in the leg and second on the back would end up with some bruising and everyone going home safe and sound.

Jim Bob Scratcher

The cop looks like a complete whackjob just looking at photo of him. If there's any justice in the world I hope he meets the same end.

Canis Lupus

...__... wrote: »

Where is the armchair in this scenario the only one is in the lobby.

Girl walks around the corner hands up and is cuffed
Guy walks round the corner hands up and on the ground no rifle in sight
at no point is a weapon on display and ample time to move in and cuff the prisoner. he could have easily been taken down same way as the girl.
no need to make him do the hokey kokey while pointing a weapon at him
and the room while not cleared was not in the field of fire.

there in a hall with hotel doors there self closing fire doors if the door was right behind them and partially open then yes there was a distinction but as the video shows that wasn't the case.

this was a scared guy who got conflusterd at so many demands shouted at him in a high stress situation he got confused.

cop was seriously over relying on his weapon and not common sense.
have the same scenario in Ireland and 2 strikes of a baton first in the leg and second on the back would end up with some bruising and everyone going home safe and sound.

Armchair analysis as in I'm not trained in special weapons and tactics and my opinion is based on movies and computer games....

Police were told there were 3 occupants and a rifle was involved and they only have two people and no rifle and both are lying outside the room door which they can't tell is open or not. They can't send one man to cuff suspects and they can't enter the room without securing the suspects so they make them crawl. The dude unfortunately has a brainfart and reaches for his waistband when already warned not to and gets shot.

I completely agree this could only happen in the US and I think it shouldn't have happened but I think I can understand WHY it happened and I can also understand why he got acquitted.

Canis Lupus

Jim Bob Scratcher wrote: »

The cop looks like a complete whackjob just looking at photo of him. If there's any justice in the world I hope he meets the same end.

I wouldn't agree unless you think people with tattoos look like whackjobs.

B.A._Baracus

This is one fu*ked up case and video .... because you can see both sides.

On one hand this poor man was scared sh*tless. Trying to do what the police man said. Looked like his was trying to pull up his pants as he was told to crawl.

From the police side, he was not taking no chances. The guy was reaching towards his back after being told to keep his hands up.



** edit
After watching it again and having to think about it.... I do think he was gunho. I know we all have hindsight right now. But US cops face people with guns all the time. He should have waited until he saw a gun. It's almost like he was willing to bury him before having actual reason to.

Jim Bob Scratcher

Canis Lupus wrote: »

I wouldn't agree unless you think people with tattoos look like whackjobs.

It has nothing to do with tattoos

pjohnson

This must be a rite of passage for American Cops at this stage.

Canis Lupus

Jim Bob Scratcher wrote: »

It has nothing to do with tattoos

In that case he looks completely normal.

Jawgap

Canis Lupus wrote: »

Armchair analysis as in I'm not trained in special weapons and tactics and my opinion is based on movies and computer games....

Police were told there were 3 occupants and a rifle was involved and they only have two people and no rifle and both are lying outside the room door which they can't tell is open or not. They can't send one man to cuff suspects and they can't enter the room without securing the suspects so they make them crawl. The dude unfortunately has a brainfart and reaches for his waistband when already warned not to and gets shot.

I completely agree this could only happen in the US and I think it shouldn't have happened but I think I can understand WHY it happened and I can also understand why he got acquitted.

Horrendous video.

There were 6 officers in the hallway, all heavily armed.......there was nothing to stop one going forward to cuff and secure the poor guy while 5 covered him. That's not my opinion, that's the opinion of the detective who investigated the killing he noted

....that there was nothing, based on the evidence, that should have stopped the officers on the scene from handcuffing Shaver while he was on the floor.

Plus, as mentioned, 6 officers present but only one decided to shoot......take from that what you will.

Jim Bob Scratcher

Canis Lupus wrote: »

In that case he looks completely normal.

You can know just looking at his eyes he's psychopath, which he demonstrated in the video

Pinch Flat

Land of the free

Fiery mutant

One of the most disturbing videos i’ve Seen in a long time. Cops in the states are far to trigger happy, this guy had ample time to have this guy cuffed and secured before they moved on the room.

There is no excuse for shooting a man like that. Disgusting.

ERG89

pjohnson wrote: »

This must be a rite of passage for American Cops at this stage.

Let's hope opening a hotel room with a keycard is the next test as they had no clue how to. :pac:
Don't know how to react to the video tbh. The country itself is far too trigger happy but the last one to see that will be themselves.

LadyMacBeth_

Oh that was a horrible video to watch, that poor boy seemed absolutely terrified, no wonder he didn't follow the instructions fully. I can see that he reached back alright after being told not to but maybe it was a reflex to pull up his pants. It seemed to me that he was after a few drinks, he said he wasn't drunk but his coordination was poor, maybe out of fear though. I know these must be highly stressful and dangerous situations that American police officers face every day and they need to be cautious but there were six officers pointing guns at him, surely they could have seen what he reached back for first and then shot him, they had enough protection. They are there to "protect and serve" after all but this police officer only seemed interested in protecting himself, the people that they deal with should be given the same consideration. How much of a threat is one man on his knees in a hallway surrounded by 6 police officers with guns? You get into a job like being a police officer in the US and you know the risks in advance but they should also know that their lives aren't more important than anybody else's. If Daniel had the potential to shoot other unarmed civilians in the hallway I might be more willing to understand it but he didn't, well unless he was going to shoot his girlfriend.

Canis Lupus

LadyMacBeth_ wrote: »

I know these must be highly stressful and dangerous situations that American police officers face every day and they need to be cautious but there were six officers pointing guns at him, surely they could have seen what he reached back for first and then shot him, they had enough protection. .

Things can go bad quickly with guns and I think maybe we just don't understand because we live in such a safe society. Hindsight is also 20/20 and it's easy to watch the video and rewind and then say well they should have done x instead of y

Canis Lupus

Jawgap wrote: »

Horrendous video.

There were 6 officers in the hallway, all heavily armed.......there was nothing to stop one going forward to cuff and secure the poor guy while 5 covered him. That's not my opinion, that's the opinion of the detective who investigated the killing he noted



Plus, as mentioned, 6 officers present but only one decided to shoot......take from that what you will.

Thanks, I thought there was just the two officers. I'm probably talking out my ar*e but I wouldn't like to be messing around in front of a flimsy door if I thought someone might be on the other side with a rifle. That said I doubt it was something considered by either party.

fleet

I can discount:

- the shouting. If you're ever on an airplane etc. in an emergency then the air hostess are trained to shout and shout loud to stamp their authority and define a baseline for compliance. If you work in an office during a fire drill the fire officer will do the same.

- the nervousness of the cop. He's been called to the site where he knows 100% that there's scoped rifle in a hotel, called in from the public because they can see it. Exactly like the Las Vegas shooter last month with 59 dead.

- the tatoos. It's not 1980, tatoos aren't just skinheads, punks and prostitutes anymore.

- not cuffing him where he was. There had been 3 people in the hotel room, the cops still thought this and the suspect had just said otherwise. They had to get him clear of the room or risk being shot themselves.

- 5 shots. If you've made the decision that your life is in immediate mortal danger from another person you make sure the person is dead. One or two shots would still have killed him anyway, it was an AR15, not a pistol.

It's both hard to accept that this happened, and hard to accept that the victim made several very swift movements over the course of the video that looked like attempts to draw a weapon.

Perhaps the only things that could have been managed better are the instructions for: locomotion "if your pants fall then let them" and the speed "move very slowly" might have saved a life.

Edit: perhaps helmets and body armour might have helped calm the police, certainly helps confidence on a motorcycle etc.

Sad video.

PeterParker957

Jim Bob Scratcher wrote: »

Canis Lupus wrote: »

In that case he looks completely normal.

You can know just looking at his eyes he's psychopath, which he demonstrated in the video

You sound like my late auntie.

"You can tell he's guilty just by looking at him"

Jawgap

Canis Lupus wrote: »

Thanks, I thought there was just the two officers. I'm probably talking out my ar*e but I wouldn't like to be messing around in front of a flimsy door if I thought someone might be on the other side with a rifle. That said I doubt it was something considered by either party.

A complete screw up......the sergeant (Langley) was also criticised for issuing to many instructions to Shaver. The opinion of the investigators suggests that once Shaver was prone he could've been cuffed easily enough......

......as it was the drawn out nature likely added to Shaver's fear and confusion.

myshirt

The issue with American culture is it fundamentally doesn't give a **** about people, and that's what it all comes back to. They are ruthless. They'd kill their own mothers to make or save $5.00.

Black men are locked up. Black women are locked out. Lost your house, don't care. Homeless, don't care. An orphan, don't care. Mental health issues, don't care. Want an education, f#ck you. Violence in your neighborhood, important thing is it's not my neighbourhood. Gun store and off license on every corner, for 8 blocks, that's business.

There are very few voluntary organisations with some heart and humanity, but culturally Americans don't care. They were the ones who first mutated into this stepford wife two life thing. One life is how you present yourself to the world, big smile, happy happy happy. The other is the you when you go home, a crumbling mess of anxiety, loneliness, and fear.

They just don't give a flying f#ck about people.

Canis Lupus

Jawgap wrote: »

A complete screw up......the sergeant (Langley) was also criticised for issuing to many instructions to Shaver. The opinion of the investigators suggests that once Shaver was prone he could've been cuffed easily enough......

......as it was the drawn out nature likely added to Shaver's fear and confusion.

That's true enough. Far too many instructions, it devolved into a game of simon says where you get shot if you f*ck up.

It looks pretty messed up. But he went to trial, there was a 6 week hearing, and a jury acquitted.

corner of hells

Jim Bob Scratcher wrote: »

Canis Lupus wrote: »

In that case he looks completely normal.

You can know just looking at his eyes he's psychopath, which he demonstrated in the video

How can you tell someone's a psychopath by looking at their eyes ?
Your eyes are determined genetically.

darkdubh

corner of hells wrote: »

How can you tell someone's a psychopath by looking at their eyes ?
Your eyes are determined genetically.

super_furry

America is a fcuking cesspit of a country.

Your Face

super_furry wrote: »

America is a fcuking cesspit of a country.

lol

weldoninhio

Justified kill in my eyes. Suspect reached for his waistband and gave the cop no option. Easy to say give the suspect a second to see if he pulls a gun but that’s nonsense.

Suspect was the author of his own demise. Acting the maggot with a scoped rifle on the balcony of a hotel, then not following the officers instructions. It wasn’t the first time he’d dropped his hands or failed to follow simple instructions.

splinter65

A drunk man in a hotel bedroom with a powerful rifle is a very very dangerous situation.
To do that in Texas where there’s zero tolerance of possible threats to public safety is borderline suicidal.
The cop completely messed up and should not only be sacked but should be prevented from ever owning a gun again, but you have to question the thought processes behind the dead mans actions that day.

RocketRaccoon

splinter65 wrote: »

A drunk man in a hotel bedroom with a powerful rifle is a very very dangerous situation.
To do that in Texas where there’s zero tolerance of possible threats to public safety is borderline suicidal.
The cop completely messed up and should not only be sacked but should be prevented from ever owning a gun again, but you have to question the thought processes behind the dead mans actions that day.

What has Texas got to do with this?

RocketRaccoon

weldoninhio wrote: »

Justified kill in my eyes. Suspect reached for his waistband and gave the cop no option. Easy to say give the suspect a second to see if he pulls a gun but that’s nonsense.

Suspect was the author of his own demise. Acting the maggot with a scoped rifle on the balcony of a hotel, then not following the officers instructions. It wasn’t the first time he’d dropped his hands or failed to follow simple instructions.

Justified? No. Just no.

splinter65

weldoninhio wrote: »

Justified kill in my eyes. Suspect reached for his waistband and gave the cop no option. Easy to say give the suspect a second to see if he pulls a gun but that’s nonsense.

Suspect was the author of his own demise. Acting the maggot with a scoped rifle on the balcony of a hotel, then not following the officers instructions. It wasn’t the first time he’d dropped his hands or failed to follow simple instructions.

That struck me too. As drunk as he was he was familiar with the instructions in particular he seemed to know about crossing his legs. I would have been screaming and shouting “I don’t understand!”
I’m quite inclined to think that he probably has a lengthy firearms history with the police and this confrontation came as no surprise to either him or them.

Canis Lupus

Canis Lupus wrote: »

That's true enough. Far too many instructions, it devolved into a game of simon says where you get shot if you f*ck up.

that's a pretty good summary. I understand they wanted to get these people clear of the room so they wouldn't endanger themselves but how he went about it was just plain wrong- totally sober and without a gun pointing at you and most people wouldn't have been able to get everything right.

splinter65

RocketRaccoon wrote: »

What has Texas got to do with this?

Texas is a state particularly harsh on law breakers . Where California would be more liberal and left wing Texas would be a hardline right wing no mercy kind of a place .
This is not exactly a little known fact.

RocketRaccoon

splinter65 wrote: »

That struck me too. As drunk as he was he was familiar with the instructions in particular he seemed to know about crossing his legs. I would have been screaming and shouting “I don’t understand!”
I’m quite inclined to think that he probably has a lengthy firearms history with the police and this confrontation came as no surprise to either him or them.

He was told to put his left leg over his right and didn't know how to do it. The man was so drunk/confused/frightened he couldn't comprehend left from right. I cannot believe there are people defending this.

I will ALWAYS try to see the good in a police officer in any country because they have a completely thankless job and I have so much respect for them but this guy deserved a severe prison sentence.

splinter65

RocketRaccoon wrote: »

Justified? No. Just no.

Justified is the wrong word. Sadly, the consequences to your desicions (I’m going to take this powerful rifle to a hotel, set it up on the balcony and get drunk) may be fatal.
The cop was totally out of his depth, but ultimately the victim was responsible for his own demise.

RocketRaccoon

splinter65 wrote: »

Texas is a state particularly harsh on law breakers . Where California would be more liberal and left wing Texas would be a hardline right wing no mercy kind of a place .
This is not exactly a little known fact.

But this didn't happen in Texas.

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

It looks pretty messed up. But he went to trial, there was a 6 week hearing, and a jury acquitted.

Reasonable doubt is all you have to sew in the minds of the jury and considering the differing views here on this thread after only a few pages, there's no jury in America that would have convicted him.

The person who died committed idiotic acts beyond belief given the incidents that have occurred in the US recently - but you still hope that law enforcement would be able to deal with that particular situation without loss of life-

splinter65

RocketRaccoon wrote: »

He was told to put his left leg over his right and didn't know how to do it. The man was so drunk/confused/frightened he couldn't comprehend left from right. I cannot believe there are people defending this.

I will ALWAYS try to see the good in a police officer in any country because they have a completely thankless job and I have so much respect for them but this guy deserved a severe prison sentence.

He immediately crossed his legs on being asked. You are ignoring the fact that he took the rifle to the hotel room and set it up on the balcony while he was drunk.
He was very dangerous unpredictable and not in control of himself.
In a state where everyone is armed all of the time, he put himself in mortal danger that day, and sadly he paid the ultimate price.

splinter65

RocketRaccoon wrote: »

But this didn't happen in Texas.

Sorry yes it happened in Arizona but the victim was a Texas native.

Jawgap

weldoninhio wrote: »

Justified kill in my eyes. Suspect reached for his waistband and gave the cop no option. Easy to say give the suspect a second to see if he pulls a gun but that’s nonsense.

Suspect was the author of his own demise. Acting the maggot with a scoped rifle on the balcony of a hotel, then not following the officers instructions. It wasn’t the first time he’d dropped his hands or failed to follow simple instructions.

So lets be clear.....

.....they guy was prone, hands out and legs crossed and the investigating detective (Sipe) said there was no reason that one of the 6 officers present (maybe one of the 3 not armed with AR-15s) could not have advanced and cuffed him.....he also stated that Shaver was being compliant and the technique of having him crawl forward was unusual.

.....one of the officers present, at the trial, said the movement presented no threat.....

.....of the six officers present only one chose to fire and then on full auto putting five rounds into him....

....but you reckon it was justified?

Incidentally, if it was justified why did the six officers present omit key details from the statements they gave to the investigators? Not only that - but all of them omitted the same information relating to Shaver's demeanour.....that certainly sounds like the officers on the scene felt like they'd been justified :rolleyes:

.....you reckon a police force that puts an automatic weapon in the hands of someone barely 2 years out of training and then puts them in as a lead shooter in a potential armed or hostage siutation has no culpability here?

RocketRaccoon

splinter65 wrote: »

He immediately crossed his legs on being asked. You are ignoring the fact that he took the rifle to the hotel room and set it up on the balcony while he was drunk.
He was very dangerous unpredictable and not in control of himself.
In a state where everyone is armed all of the time, he put himself in mortal danger that day, and sadly he paid the ultimate price.

If you want to; watch the video again. It took him 3 attempts to get his legs crossed correctly. The hokey cokey they put this poor man through meant that him being shot was inevitable.

Jawgap

splinter65 wrote: »

Texas is a state particularly harsh on law breakers . Where California would be more liberal and left wing Texas would be a hardline right wing no mercy kind of a place .
This is not exactly a little known fact.

Which would be relevant if this happened in Texas, but it happened in Arizona.....Maricopa County (Phoenix), home of good ol' boy, former Sheriff Joe Arpaio

corner of hells

splinter65 wrote: »

weldoninhio wrote: »

Justified kill in my eyes. Suspect reached for his waistband and gave the cop no option. Easy to say give the suspect a second to see if he pulls a gun but that’s nonsense.

Suspect was the author of his own demise. Acting the maggot with a scoped rifle on the balcony of a hotel, then not following the officers instructions. It wasn’t the first time he’d dropped his hands or failed to follow simple instructions.

That struck me too. As drunk as he was he was familiar with the instructions in particular he seemed to know about crossing his legs. I would have been screaming and shouting “I don’t understand!”
I’m quite inclined to think that he probably has a lengthy firearms history with the police and this confrontation came as no surprise to either him or them.

How can you say he has lengthy firearms history with the police along confrontation ? Is there a link somewhere?

It's also interesting that two months after the death , the police officer was sacked almost as if the authority's were anticipating a conviction.