How to make our van dreams a reality - help?!

AlastairFinn

Hi all!

Myself and my girlfriend have been dreaming and scheming about a year around Europe in a van next year, roughly from July 2018 to 2019. And boy are we coming up against some daunting hurdles! That is where we are hoping this awesome community may be able to help us make this happen - and yes, we have spent many hours looking on other posts before penning this one, as I feel no posts yet fully answer the questions we have. So here goes

What we want from our van: a functional, attractive, reliable vehicle and space, for 2 medium-sized humans and their 2 cats. NO toilet or ''bathroom'' in the vehicle, we are happy to use campsites/gyms/solar showers etc. We want some simple but efficient storage space and fixed bed, a sink and hob, a light or 2 in the roof, and a plug or usb charge point or 2. solar panels desirable but not essential, at least initially. Minimal is key. Not looking like a traditional motorhome is also key!

1) To convert ourselves or to buy converted? If the former option, which in an ideal world would be our preference, we were thinking either highroof lwb transit or a sprinter etc. The biggest obstacle to us converting ourselves is the quagmire of red tape and lack of clarity surrounding conversion standards and requirements, at least or so it seems from an amateur standpoint. Certainly I would not feel suitably skilled to do the gas and electrical hookup myself, and would likely involve the services of a specialist company for this, but would it be possible to do the carpentry and interior ourselves, and still expect the vehicle to pass inspection to a standard acceptable to the insurance c̶a̶r̶t̶e̶l̶s̶ companies?
If we bought a van already certified as a camper, but wanted to renovate or improve upon it, would we need to get it re-inspected?
We are fast learners, hard workers, but essentially inexperienced in this kind of thing as it stands - are we mad to be trying to do something like this??

2) Insurance - Our biggest concern. We are both currently 24. We will both be 25 by the time we want to head off though thankfully. However as we plan on going for a full year, we do not intend on keeping another vehicle in Ireland taxed and insured simply gathering dust - is this possible, to get camper insurance as your main vehicle, with the intention of touring Europe for a year with it? I know many people do similar things, I just need to know how they do it legally, or is what they do technically... not?
It seems essentially to me, that a van has 2 states of being - either a commercial vehicle or a motor caravan. The former must be used for work purposes, the latter for SD&P and not as your main vehicle... where is the middle ground, the ground we're looking to occupy?
Also, in relation to the 1.8m internal height rule - I can't seem to find a definitive answer to this question or not?! Certainly, bespoke conversion companies such as HappyCampers in wexford convert and certify VW transporters all the time with less headroom than that - so how do they get around this factor? Does it add an extra layer of hassle to the whole process that we should really seek to avoid.

Are there any other options out there for us?? Any glaringly obvious to you but overlooked by us options to fulfill our dreams - maybe to buy a camper on the continent?? I don't know. Any help at all will be massively appreciated.

The essential question is basically, is it possible to buy and insure a camper van, to drive around multiple countries of the EU over the course of a year, and what is the simplest legal way to do this/make this a reality?

Any of you guys or gals been through a similar process and feel suitably experienced to educate us on it, we would absolutely love to get in touch with you! Or any other people out there currently converting a van or undertaking a similar project, whom we could bounce ideas off and share knowledge, that would be awesome too.

THANKS!

kadman

AlastairFinn wrote: »

Hi all!

Myself and my girlfriend have been dreaming and scheming about a year around Europe in a van next year, roughly from July 2018 to 2019. And boy are we coming up against some daunting hurdles! That is where we are hoping this awesome community may be able to help us make this happen - and yes, we have spent many hours looking on other posts before penning this one, as I feel no posts yet fully answer the questions we have. So here goes

What we want from our van: a functional, attractive, reliable vehicle and space, for 2 medium-sized humans and their 2 cats. NO toilet or ''bathroom'' in the vehicle, we are happy to use campsites/gyms/solar showers etc. We want some simple but efficient storage space and fixed bed, a sink and hob, a light or 2 in the roof, and a plug or usb charge point or 2. solar panels desirable but not essential, at least initially. Minimal is key. Not looking like a traditional motorhome is also key!

1) To convert ourselves or to buy converted? If the former option, which in an ideal world would be our preference, we were thinking either highroof lwb transit or a sprinter etc. The biggest obstacle to us converting ourselves is the quagmire of red tape and lack of clarity surrounding conversion standards and requirements, at least or so it seems from an amateur standpoint. Certainly I would not feel suitably skilled to do the gas and electrical hookup myself, and would likely involve the services of a specialist company for this, but would it be possible to do the carpentry and interior ourselves, and still expect the vehicle to pass inspection to a standard acceptable to the insurance c̶a̶r̶t̶e̶l̶s̶ companies?
If we bought a van already certified as a camper, but wanted to renovate or improve upon it, would we need to get it re-inspected?
We are fast learners, hard workers, but essentially inexperienced in this kind of thing as it stands - are we mad to be trying to do something like this??

2) Insurance - Our biggest concern. We are both currently 24. We will both be 25 by the time we want to head off though thankfully. However as we plan on going for a full year, we do not intend on keeping another vehicle in Ireland taxed and insured simply gathering dust - is this possible, to get camper insurance as your main vehicle, with the intention of touring Europe for a year with it? I know many people do similar things, I just need to know how they do it legally, or is what they do technically... not?
It seems essentially to me, that a van has 2 states of being - either a commercial vehicle or a motor caravan. The former must be used for work purposes, the latter for SD&P and not as your main vehicle... where is the middle ground, the ground we're looking to occupy?
Also, in relation to the 1.8m internal height rule - I can't seem to find a definitive answer to this question or not?! Certainly, bespoke conversion companies such as HappyCampers in wexford convert and certify VW transporters all the time with less headroom than that - so how do they get around this factor? Does it add an extra layer of hassle to the whole process that we should really seek to avoid.

Are there any other options out there for us?? Any glaringly obvious to you but overlooked by us options to fulfill our dreams - maybe to buy a camper on the continent?? I don't know. Any help at all will be massively appreciated.

The essential question is basically, is it possible to buy and insure a camper van, to drive around multiple countries of the EU over the course of a year, and what is the simplest legal way to do this/make this a reality?

Any of you guys or gals been through a similar process and feel suitably experienced to educate us on it, we would absolutely love to get in touch with you! Or any other people out there currently converting a van or undertaking a similar project, whom we could bounce ideas off and share knowledge, that would be awesome too.

THANKS!

Basically the answer to this question is yes.

And this is the place to enquire,

http://www.dolmen-insurance.ie/campervan-insurance-renewal/campervan-faqs/

And their own website says its ok to have the camper as the main vehicle but an increased premium will apply.

Shoog

kadman wrote: »

Basically the answer to this question is yes.

And this is the place to enquire,

http://www.dolmen-insurance.ie/campervan-insurance-renewal/campervan-faqs/

And their own website says its ok to have the camper as the main vehicle but an increased premium will apply.

Dolmen are very exacting in their requirements and really don't like home conversions - especially minimal ones. If you use them
- get a gas fitter to do your cooker and certify it (this will save a huge amount of hassle) and consult him at the earliest stage of planning as he will impact all other decisons.
- ensure the target vehicle has standing room in the back, its not a legal requirement but you can forget Dolmen and Stewarts if you don't.
- ensure their is a free passage between the back and front or Dolmen/Stewarts will decline.

For me an old ambulance would seem the best candidate vehicle - and they come in various shapes and sizes. Its a tough thing to do it yourself and do it right - but a second hand one will start at €5,000 (and will be knackered) and a decent one will be around €15,000
Still, doing it yourself is likely to cost more than €5,000 even if the donor vehicle was cheap to begin with. Our VW T4 Transporter conversion cost us about €3,500 to get it to registration and has had to have its clutch and a wheel baring replaced at another €500 since. Its a very basic conversion after all that.

Good luck.

Stephen

fergal.b

I'd second an ambulance as a good place to start, more than likely it will be insulated and will be fitted with a diesel night heater something that could cost you over a grand to buy and get fitted. I have just finished fitting out a boat where I made the sink fold away to save space, the sink is a stainless steel bowl €5 I also used all LED lights have a look through my link it might give you some ideas. https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057583016 everything was done on a budget so if you put your mind to it anything is possible. Best of luck.

_Brian

Is it not a case that once in Europe they will only want in date paperwork ?

I know at 25 I would have bought a suitable van, taxed and insured it as such, did whatever living space conversion needed and hit the ferry.

Shoog

_Brian wrote: »

Is it not a case that once in Europe they will only want in date paperwork ?

I know at 25 I would have bought a suitable van, taxed and insured it as such, did whatever living space conversion needed and hit the ferry.

That may well be your best approach if your focus is purely for the year. However getting insurance on a van unless you are a registered farmer/business is no small matter in of itself. Insuring a van as a private vehicle is simply not an option in Ireland.

Shoog

Moomat

The beauty of a trip like that is that it is totally your's to shape. Plenty of people do it out of a car Have a look a this > http://www.tinyhousetinyfootprint.com/roll-with-me/megan-michael-in-a-ford-focus

AlastairFinn wrote: »

If we bought a van already certified as a camper, but wanted to renovate or improve upon it, would we need to get it re-inspected?
We are fast learners, hard workers, but essentially inexperienced in this kind of thing as it stands - are we mad to be trying to do something like this??

No, you would not need to get it reinspected if just changing layout etc. If you added belted seats, you would most likely need to get them signed off. It's amazing how good a van you can get for a couple of thousand euro and do some really cheap remodelling using Ikea and/or B&Q etc... Panel vans have always been my preference when doing this.

kadman

Fiat Doblo hi roof MPV, Bongo ect springs to mind possibly .

Shoog

Mercedes Sprinter.

Shoog

CJhaughey

I'd keep in mind two things, for a years travel on the continent a LHD would make life easier for you.
Secondly a bigger van would be easier to live in for a year, cramped living quarters would soon generate friction and not always in a good sense!
I would consider buying a second hand van in Germany and importing it here and then insuring it and driving it around the continent for a year?
Bear in mind that emissions stickers are a problem in many EU cities.

CelticRambler

I would agree with CJhaughey's remarks about LHD, size and emissions.

LHD - no question. Even though it's easy to be a confident RHD on the "wrong" side of the road, it makes a huge difference having a vehicle matched to the local layout.

Regarding size, for the most part, height is a far greater problem than length. If there's a restriction on parking, there'll most likely be a barrier set a height that'll keep you out. On-street parking is becoming scarcer in many European cities as they sacrifice space to make room for cycle paths and tram lines.

But the emissions stickers are the real killer for taking older vehicles, regardless of size, into urban areas, and you'll need a different one for each country.

Not yet raised in this thread is the non-exchangeability of propane cylinders in different countries. For a long European tour, you'll have to consider either (expensive) CampingGaz or a re-fillable LPG bottle.

CelticRambler

CelticRambler wrote: »

, you'll have to consider either (expensive) CampingGaz or a re-fillable LPG bottle.

or New Country = new bottle, new regulator. Keep the old regulator, lose the old bottle.

Life's too short to spend it looking for LPG fillers.

CelticRambler

In the early days, I wasted a huge amount of my short life trying to find somewhere that sold both gas and regulators in the same place, on the same day. Much easier to use an app to find a 24-hour LPG service station and refill a bottle ... not to mention the frustration of having to throw away a bottle you've paid for, knowing that you'll have to buy a new one the next time you pass through that country.

Shoog

Despite the cost penalty of Campingaz its the only one which is generally available throughout Europe. A cylinder will last a few weeks for general cooking so the price hit is small when stacked against the dependability and the other running costs such as Diesel. Also the smaller cylinders are easier to accommodate in a smaller build.

I cannot state strongly enough that you need to decide on this aspect of your build as the first step and call on a gas fitter for advise so you ultimately don't waste his and your time and money. Its the main thing that caused me trouble at every stage of my build and I still had to fudge things because I made a poor choice, the result was safe but not strictly compliant.

Shoog

CJhaughey

My van has a truma monocontrol regulator mounted in the gas locker, all you need to do is change the pigtail for different bottles which is about 4 common ones in Europe.
https://www.truma.com/uk/en/faq/country-specific-high-pressure-hoses.html
Of those 2 are very common.

If you're not running a gas fridge then chances are 10kg will last you months. If you are <6 weeks for a 60-litre fridge, half that if the ventilation is stifled.
I strongly advise against gas refrigeration.