After BXD: The next big public transport project for Dublin?3

MJohnston

Mods can we have a separate Hyperloop thread for all the loop hypers?

4068ac1elhodqr

Stephen15 wrote: »

But you would have to have hyperloops services well spaced in order to prevent a pod jam.

Maybe, but there's not a whole lot occupying space in a 'vacum' oddly enough to cause a jam.

Saying that, a 'truck jam' is exactly what will be putting over 100,000 truckers out of work over in the US withing a decade or so. They purposefully jam them together (couple of meters apart) to improve auto piloting abilities of an entire fleet, also known as 'doing the conga'.

4068ac1elhodqr

Sorry everyone, feel free to get back to the diesel engines and heavy moving machinery.

Stephen15

Teagan Lemon Dandruff wrote: »

But did it do 387km/h (240mph) like the 3rd phase of successful testing at the DevLoop site in Nevada?

Could Stevenson's rocket do 431km/ph and still conventional trains have been far more successful. Maybe in a few more years they'll get a lartigue train to do 400km/ph who knows.

sdanseo

In order of common sense, below should be done immediately

1/ DU - could have shovels in the ground early 2019 if they really wanted to. It was advanced enough.
2/ MN - as above. Redesign not warranted. Revert to original plan and start tunneling immediately.
3/ Extend Luas Broombridge to Finglas / Ikea area - could probably be OPEN by 2021 or 2022 with expedited planning.

+ later
4/ Upgrade of Luas Green to metro and connection to MN


What we'll probably get by 2021 instead
1/ MN may actually have started
2/ lots of fancy and extremely expensive renderings of DU
3/ Some new bi mode trains essentially doing exactly what the current Dart+Commuters do but without having to change at Malahide and Connolly
4/ A few fancy bus lanes

LeinsterDub

Teagan Lemon Dandruff wrote: »

The 1st fully fledged system from Musk, is expected 2021.

They are going to go from rusty tube with a car on wheels to 100's of KM of mag lev trains in 3 years (ignoring the actually time to build it )? Not a chance.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vwLnyzyybYs

Dr Crayfish

Well I'd be happy with a few fast bus routes, hyperloop ffs...

tom1ie

I notice brt is not in the above poll? A proper brt service coupled with strategically placed p+r’s in Dublin would sort out Dublin’s transport problems at a fraction of the cost of all the heavy rail, light rail and metro plans. It just doesn’t have the same political pazzaz!
When I say brt, by the way, I mean tunneling under the city center to allow the brt busses bypass traffic where theirs not enough room for qbc’s.
It’s done in Seattle, and it was used for busses for years very successfully, before they decided to upgrade to full metro because of demand.
Nothing to stop us doing this.

cgcsb

tom1ie wrote: »

I notice brt is not in the above poll? A proper brt service coupled with strategically placed p+r’s in Dublin would sort out Dublin’s transport problems at a fraction of the cost of all the heavy rail, light rail and metro plans. It just doesn’t have the same political pazzaz!
When I say brt, by the way, I mean tunneling under the city center to allow the brt busses bypass traffic where theirs not enough room for qbc’s.
It’s done in Seattle, and it was used for busses for years very successfully, before they decided to upgrade to full metro because of demand.
Nothing to stop us doing this.

We have the demand for metro now though.

tom1ie

cgcsb wrote: »

We have the demand for metro now though.

Yes but your not going to get metro lines, orbital routes and suburb to city center routes built all over Dublin. Whereas a brt system would be relatively easier and quicker to get built taking into account orbital brt’s and eg lucan to cc, swords to cc, Tallaght to cc.
However brt would have to be top standard and a stand alone system to Dublin bus, with integrated ticketing of course.
Dublin bus would act as the feeder system to the brt trunk routes.

markpb

tom1ie wrote: »

Yes but your not going to get metro lines, orbital routes and suburb to city center routes built all over Dublin. Whereas a brt system would be relatively easier and quicker to get built taking into account orbital brt’s and eg lucan to cc, swords to cc, Tallaght to cc.
However brt would have to be top standard and a stand alone system to Dublin bus, with integrated ticketing of course.
Dublin bus would act as the feeder system to the brt trunk routes.

I very much suspect that a high-quality, underground BRT route won't be much cheaper to build or run than an equivalent underground rail line. It will also be impossible to upgrade later without significant disruption.

Phil.x

Why all the separate types of transport, there's no need for a metro north on a different size track. Keep things simple

cgcsb

Phil.x wrote: »

Why all the separate types of transport, there's no need for a metro north on a different size track. Keep things simple

same track as luas

Sam Russell

Phil.x wrote: »

Why all the separate types of transport, there's no need for a metro north on a different size track. Keep things simple

The 'different size track' decision was made when Luas was started and went with 'standard gauge' (4ft 8.5 inch). By introducing the standard gauge into Ireland, there was always going to be an instance when the Irish gauge (1.6m) would clash. Metro will be standard gauge because it is designed to link with the Green Line south of Charlemont. Dart or any heavy rail and Metro can never mix.

The difference between the two gauges is small - 16.5 cm or 6.5 inches. Unfortunately that is too small to run a dual rail system, but enough to make converting bogeys to be expensive.

Unfortunately we are stuck with two incompatible systems.

tom1ie

markpb wrote: »

I very much suspect that a high-quality, underground BRT route won't be much cheaper to build or run than an equivalent underground rail line. It will also be impossible to upgrade later without significant disruption.

Yes but only some of the brt routes have to be underground. For example
On the n4 the brt route could go overground from Adamstown all the way to Heuston on a a dedicated qbc and then go via a tunnel through the city center (with appropriate stops) and emerge on the n1 where a bus lane can go all the way out to swords overground.
The entire brt service does not have to be underground.
Qbc’s and traffic transponders, plus city center (within the canals) congestion charges plus short sections of city center tunnels (where there is no space for qbc’s) would make all the difference and it would effect all of Dublin whereas metro north is probably going to only effect Dublin north.
Don’t get me wrong I’d love a bit of metro north as well but if we could get a system that benefited more people across the city I think that’d be better.

tom1ie

tom1ie wrote: »

Yes but only some of the brt routes have to be underground. For example
On the n4 the brt route could go overground from Adamstown all the way to Heuston on a a dedicated qbc and then go via a tunnel through the city center (with appropriate stops) and emerge on the n1 where a bus lane can go all the way out to swords overground.
The entire brt service does not have to be underground.
Qbc’s and traffic transponders, plus city center (within the canals) congestion charges plus short sections of city center tunnels (where there is no space for qbc’s) would make all the difference and it would effect all of Dublin whereas metro north is probably going to only effect Dublin north.
Don’t get me wrong I’d love a bit of metro north as well but if we could get a system that benefited more people across the city I think that’d be better.

Also rail can be laid in these short sections of tunnel, in case the tunnels are upgraded at a later date, they done this in Seattle, but made a Bollix of it so had to replace the rail anyway. I think they used the wrong type of rail?

LeinsterDub

https://www.facebook.com/NoelRockTD/videos/755460501316617/

Luas Finglas lobbying begins

budhabob

LeinsterDub wrote: »

https://www.facebook.com/NoelRockTD/videos/755460501316617/

Luas Finglas lobbying begins

Out of all the light rail options out there, this one probably makes the most sense. It would benefit Finglas no end - an area that has been neglected in terms of investment etc.

Thich Nhat Hanh

What route would it take? I’d love to see that myself lot of city workers are in Charlestown etc nowadays

LeinsterDub

Thich Nhat Hanh wrote: »

What route would it take? I’d love to see that myself lot of city workers are in Charlestown etc nowadays

Get your crayons out and pick a route . There is not even a sniff of an official route currently.

Personally I would like something like this.

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1LBbgGV80V1tDgqJgmml6157i8-BmWfIB&usp=sharing

Winters

There have been some official routes over the years.

Most recently the AECOM "FINGAL / NORTH DUBLIN TRANSPORT STUDY" shows a potential route on pages 48 and 49.

https://www.nationaltransport.ie/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/Fingal_North_Dublin_Transport_Study_Final_June_2015.pdf

Sam Russell

LeinsterDub wrote: »

Get your crayons out and pick a route . There is not even a sniff of an official route currently.

Personally I would like something like this.

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1LBbgGV80V1tDgqJgmml6157i8-BmWfIB&usp=sharing

Why not branch off the Cabra stop and up the Finglas Rd?

Winters

Sam Russell wrote: »

Why not branch off the Cabra stop and up the Finglas Rd?

Because grade separation and thus better journey times is preferred.

LeinsterDub

Sam Russell wrote: »

Why not branch off the Cabra stop and up the Finglas Rd?

I don't see a way on from Cabra stop to the Finglas on satellite view

cgcsb

all the lobbying is always going to be for suburban extensions TII needs to build more luas lines in the City Centre otherwise all these suburban trams will have nowhere to go. A Third and Fourth Cross City line is required before you start throwing more tracks down over the suburban areas.

BonnieSituation

cgcsb wrote: »

all the lobbying is always going to be for suburban extensions TII needs to build more luas lines in the City Centre otherwise all these suburban trams will have nowhere to go. A Third and Fourth Cross City line is required before you start throwing more tracks down over the suburban areas.

This is where the mare of not including those points at College Green or even at Kevin St during the BXD build will come home to roost.

Winters

BonnieSituation wrote: »

This is where the mare of not including those points at College Green or even at Kevin St during the BXD build will come home to roost.

or a tunnel...

BonnieSituation

Winters wrote: »

or a tunnel...

Well you know, people just don't like using underground systems don't ya know.

LeinsterDub

BonnieSituation wrote: »

This is where the mare of not including those points at College Green or even at Kevin St during the BXD build will come home to roost.

Hardly they installed the points at OCS very painlessly.

BonnieSituation

LeinsterDub wrote: »

Hardly they installed the points at OCS very painlessly.

After I wrote that I recalled that period being painless and regretted it.

That being said. The preparatory works had been done on Abbey St during the initial Luas construction of the red line and on OCS so it was painless.

Kevin St/Dame St/Wherever St will not have that luxury.