General MMA Chat/News mk3 - **No Spoilers Use Event Threads**

cletus

tommyboy26 wrote: »

what is jk response originally from?

Is this a dagger which I see before me,
The handle toward my hand? Come, let me clutch thee.
I have thee not, and yet I see thee still.
Art thou not, fatal vision, sensible
To feeling as to sight? or art thou but
A dagger of the mind,

Macbeth (II, i, 33-38)

tommyboy26

Herb dean on rogan right now

ASOT

This is actually a great explanation from the goat.

https://twitter.com/RusHammerMMA/status/1115953882889428992?s=19

D'Agger

You could still bump the lad with the extra fuel into the barrier

4/10 analogy

VW 1

You could still knock the epo guy out, excellent analogy.

Mehaffey1

D'Agger wrote: »

You could still bump the lad with the extra fuel into the barrier

4/10 analogy

The GOAT's point is about the sporting performance benefit of EPO, I've never thrown a punch in a competitive setting but I could still K.O Jon Jones that 1 time out of 10,000 tries.

Used to cycle competitively and was mad into Pro Cycling just after the Armstrong Era before all the PED use was exposed. EPO is one drug that can literally turn a donkey into a race horse, improvements of 8% or so in terms of maintainable power output and performance. For someone as talented, skilled and disciplined as Dillashaw undoubtedly is an 8% boost in performance is unachievable any other way since he is already at the peak of his natural ability.

D'Agger

VW 1 wrote: »

You could still knock the epo guy out, excellent analogy.

Mehaffey1 wrote: »

The GOAT's point is about the sporting performance benefit of EPO, I've never thrown a punch in a competitive setting but I could still K.O Jon Jones that 1 time out of 10,000 tries.

Used to cycle competitively and was mad into Pro Cycling just after the Armstrong Era before all the PED use was exposed. EPO is one drug that can literally turn a donkey into a race horse, improvements of 8% or so in terms of maintainable power output and performance. For someone as talented, skilled and disciplined as Dillashaw undoubtedly is an 8% boost in performance is unachievable any other way since he is already at the peak of his natural ability.

My point is he's solely mentioned endurance, who will last longer, the irony lies in my mentioning of the simplicity in bumping the car

VW 1

D'Agger wrote: »

My point is he's solely mentioned endurance, who will last longer, the irony lies in my mentioning of the simplicity in bumping the car

Epo's benefit is increased stamina, you're still as likely to be knocked out because it doesn't enhance your ability to take a punch (same way extra fuel doesn't help you avoid a bump).

Extra petrol helps in the analogy in that you can put your foot to the floor (punch with no abandon or fear of gassing out) and not worry about running out of fuel.


The analogy is spot on.

D'Agger

VW 1 wrote: »

Epo's benefit is increased stamina, you're still as likely to be knocked out because it doesn't enhance your ability to take a punch (same way extra fuel doesn't help you avoid a bump).

Extra petrol helps in the analogy in that you can put your foot to the floor (punch with no abandon or fear of gassing out) and not worry about running out of fuel.


The analogy is spot on.

I still disagree, I'd potentially agree if he was talking NASCAR

Dtp1979

No fear McGregor has taken EPO anyway

Donald Trump

VW 1 wrote: »

Epo's benefit is increased stamina, you're still as likely to be knocked out because it doesn't enhance your ability to take a punch (same way extra fuel doesn't help you avoid a bump).

No. That's just silly.


If I have a fella in front of me who is bollixed near the end of a fight, and I'm still grand, then it's lights out for him. If he's on something to give him more stamina, and he's not as tired, then I might not knock him out.


People are rarely knocked simply by the force of a punch to the head. It's from their head snapping or not seeing it coming. That's all. Basic 101.





(It still has to be hard, I did not say otherwise. There will just be many punches with the same force throughout a fight. It's how they land that makes the difference)


Edit: Here is a fella getting knocked out by someone (I won't mention his name in case I get banned). It's a mickey mouse punch (in terms of power) that puts him down. Just catches him because he was walking away with his chin sticking out and he was caught nicely on it. He got knocked out because he was bollixed. Give him an extra 20% stamina here and he's not getting hit with those and knocked out.

VW 1

Has TJ, or has TJ not, made a name for himself off his ability to push an almost impossible pace for the duration of his fights?

Also your inability to mention McGregor as an example without getting in a sly dig is both silly and juvenile, get rid of the persecution complex.

Donald Trump

VW 1 wrote: »

Has TJ, or has TJ not, made a name for himself off his ability to push an almost impossible pace for the duration of his fights?

Also your inability to mention McGregor as an example without getting in a sly dig is both silly and juvenile, get rid of the persecution complex.

No need to get personal just because I pointed out a simple fact. Learn from it and move on. No harm done.

ASOT

So this will be at 125 after all.... I'm still skeptical as it's after the Cejudo/Moraes fight. Wouldn't surprise me that if cejudo wins it'll be a BW title eliminator rather than a flyweight.

https://twitter.com/ufc/status/1116089556670001153?s=19

Esse85

Not enough is taken into consideration for the fighters who lost against those on banned substances at the time, particularly when a belt is involved.

Their destiny could of been a whole lot different had they won against the cheat they were facing. They lost due to a disadvantage they faced through a cheating opponent.

Therefore a 2 year ban is not enough, fighters will continue to cheat as the stakes are so high, the rewards are so big and the punishment is not severe enough to make fighters think twice about using steroids again.

Autecher

ASOT wrote: »

So this will be at 125 after all.... I'm still skeptical as it's after the Cejudo/Moraes fight. Wouldn't surprise me that if cejudo wins it'll be a BW title eliminator rather than a flyweight.

https://twitter.com/ufc/status/1116089556670001153?s=19

Formiga looks like a slightly squashed Jorge Masvidal

ASOT

Autecher wrote: »

Formiga looks like a slightly squashed Jorge Masvidal

If DJ and Masividal were morphed Into one :pac:

Mean Laqueefa

Autecher wrote: »

Formiga looks like a slightly squashed Jorge Masvidal

Benavidez is Vulcan, his ears are just evolving

Mellor

D'Agger wrote: »

My point is he's solely mentioned endurance, who will last longer, the irony lies in my mentioning of the simplicity in bumping the car

I don't follow this at all. Are you saying EPO isn't a benefit

A car can still get bumped off the road, a fighter finished. But having a bigger gas tank is a really obvious advantage.

Mellor

Donald Trump wrote: »

If I have a fella in front of me who is bollixed near the end of a fight, and I'm still grand, then it's lights out for him. If he's on something to give him more stamina, and he's not as tired, then I might not knock him out.

True. By the same logic, EPO allowing you to keep up a high pace later in a fight, throwing more punches overall, etc increases the chances you'll knock the other guy out.

Despite both of those facts, it's still wrong to say EPO helps by increasing resistance to knockout and increasing knock out ability.

Those are byproducts of the actual effects of EPO - VO2Max and Endurance.

pastorbarrett

Truth be told, no-one really knows the tangible benefits of EPO in an MMA context, only its known physiological effects. It's deterministic capacity in a fight could in theory be very varied - maybe you'd even see out a choke in the last seconds of a round where you might not have otherwise. After all, the body naturally produces it in hypoxic conditions.

Imagine round 1 condition McGregor for 5...what's different there? Pretty much everything about him - from fight IQ (decision making capabilities) to movement to power.

In theory, seems like a great substance to take...

weemcd

BJ Penn in trouble according to the usual outlets...

pastorbarrett

weemcd wrote: »

BJ Penn in trouble according to the usual outlets...

Not bjpenn.com

Tazzimus

Donald Trump wrote: »

No. That's just silly.


If I have a fella in front of me who is bollixed near the end of a fight, and I'm still grand, then it's lights out for him. If he's on something to give him more stamina, and he's not as tired, then I might not knock him out.


People are rarely knocked simply by the force of a punch to the head. It's from their head snapping or not seeing it coming. That's all. Basic 101.





(It still has to be hard, I did not say otherwise. There will just be many punches with the same force throughout a fight. It's how they land that makes the difference)


Edit: Here is a fella getting knocked out by someone (I won't mention his name in case I get banned). It's a mickey mouse punch (in terms of power) that puts him down. Just catches him because he was walking away with his chin sticking out and he was caught nicely on it. He got knocked out because he was bollixed. Give him an extra 20% stamina here and he's not getting hit with those and knocked out.

That wasn't a mickey mouse punch, that had power behind it, hence him dropping Mendes with it. Also landed nicely on the jaw so that would have helped things along.

Donald Trump

Mellor wrote: »

True. By the same logic, EPO allowing you to keep up a high pace later in a fight, throwing more punches overall, etc increases the chances you'll knock the other guy out.

Yes of course. And also by being able to still throw more punches yourself is a form of defence. So it's all part of the same argument. I had been responding to the point that someone on EPO isn't any less likely to get knocked out. I agree with what you said, and I think it also adds a bit to the same point.

Mellor wrote: »

Despite both of those facts, it's still wrong to say EPO helps by increasing resistance to knockout and increasing knock out ability.

Those are byproducts of the actual effects of EPO - VO2Max and Endurance.

Obviously I was not talking about EPO somehow giving extra powers to stop a knock out. Take the example of the video I posted of the fella being caught bang on the side of the chin, by the punch being thrown from a week away. EPO doesn't make his neck muscles stronger or cushion his brain more. I'm not trying to say that. So you could argue that the effect would be the same had he been on EPO. The only subtle difference to that might be that if he wasn't bollixed already he might have had the balance to stay on his feet long enough to cover up and move or even throw one or two back (although in that case it looked like he had given up and he was caught square so he might have gone down anyway). But muscle memory does kick in in general so sometimes you can shake it off.

I don't think those points are as relevant though as the point that he probably wouldn't have gotten hit like that had he not been bollixed.

ASOT

Ali being Ali

https://twitter.com/AliAbdelaziz00/status/1116081266040942592?s=19

Ben being Ben, boom roasted.

https://twitter.com/Benaskren/status/1116170299547033600?s=19

Axwell

Donald Trump wrote: »

Edit: Here is a fella getting knocked out by someone (I won't mention his name in case I get banned).

Mod: You won't get banned for mentioning his name but if you keep up this 'in case I get banned' nonsense and the poor me act you won't be long about going down that route.

D'Agger

Mellor wrote: »

I don't follow this at all. Are you saying EPO isn't a benefit

A car can still get bumped off the road, a fighter finished. But having a bigger gas tank is a really obvious advantage.

I guess my big problem with all of this is seeing Artem Lobov make an analogy regarding F1 racing here for EPO being an advantage. If you don't know that EPO provides a huge advantage, then you need somebody other than Artem teaching you about a whole different host of things other than how this is like an F1 Car with more petrol.

It's like the Father Ted episode with the cows being small or far away, except Artem is being serious and for some reason it's been lauded here as a great analogy. I simply don't get how the fúck you need an analogy to explain that EPO provided a gigantic advantage to TJ. Whoever questions that shouldn't be facilitated but perhaps I'm being ignorant - if so it doesn't bother me, if people here are happy I'm happy, if they're mad because I don't appreciate Artems comments on the matter then I'm grand about it

Ultimate Seduction

D'Agger wrote: »

I guess my big problem with all of this is seeing Artem Lobov make an analogy regarding F1 racing here for EPO being an advantage. If you don't know that EPO provides a huge advantage, then you need somebody other than Artem teaching you about a whole different host of things other than how this is like an F1 Car with more petrol.

It's like the Father Ted episode with the cows being small or far away, except Artem is being serious and for some reason it's been lauded here as a great analogy. I simply don't get how the fúck you need an analogy to explain that EPO provided a gigantic advantage to TJ. Whoever questions that shouldn't be facilitated but perhaps I'm being ignorant - if so it doesn't bother me, if people here are happy I'm happy, if they're mad because I don't appreciate Artems comments on the matter then I'm grand about it

The most pointless rant I've ever read. Your mad that not everyone knows the effects of EPO as well as you?

D'Agger

Ultimate Seduction wrote: »

The most pointless rant I've ever read. Your mad that not everyone knows the effects of EPO as well as you?

5 lines is a rant? Moreover, the most pointless rant you've ever read....ever? Hyperbole at it's finest Sir. I was asked to expand, I did, if you're not a fan then good for you although it seems we share the common ground of something bothering you to the point of needing to comment on it, we're brothers really