Clearing Snow/Ice outside your house? - the legal aspect

Andy From Sligo

OK , I just need clarification on this which seems sketchy to me at the moment about law.

If I wanted to clear Snow/Ice from the drive outside our house I can do that (ie I could clear all the snow/ice on the grass, drive,paths and anything else as long as its on our property yes?

If I wanted to clear snow/ice on the council owned pavement the other side of our front wall can I or cant I? - if I did and someone slipped they would be able to sue me and not the council yes?

now see the picture , in that area I scribbled in red - thats connected to our drive (the houses drive) but crossed the council pavement and that goes onto the council owned road.

So hypothetically I have my car on the houses drive, (ie on private property) - I have cleared the snow/ice by shovelling it / putting salt down but to get my car out of the drive I have to shovel that piece scribbled in red (thats the only way i could get my car onto the main road - by clearing that red area) - if hypothetically someone walks along on that red bit, slips up - who is liable?

Thanks. - I just need to prepare myself for the future and be armed with as much knowledge as I can just in case (in the unlikely event) something should arise , as it also seems this compenation culture seems to be getting out of hand these days, people suing for the least little thing and being awarded thousands or hundreds of thousands, and eager solicitors just foaming at the mouth to take on these claims these days - its quite frightning really how it is going.



Has anyone heard of someone suing someone for slipping up outside their house after clearing pavement of snow and ice?

Peregrinus

Important to clear up a possible misconception here; if somebody slips on a path that you cleared, you are not liable simply because you cleared the path. The plaintiff would have to show that he slipped because you cleared the path; that the way in which you cleared the path was negligent; that it created a danger of slippage that wasn't there before and that you could and should have avoided, and that he wouldn't have fallen but for this danger.

You have no duty to clear the footpath outside your house but, if you take it on yourself to do it, you do have a duty not to clear it in a negligent fashion. But the mere fact that somebody later slips on it does not show that your clearing was negligent. It could equally mean that they weren't wearing footwear appropriate to the conditions, or that they weren't exercising proper care in the circumstances, or that they were just unlucky.

So I think the lesson here is that if you'er going to clear the section of footpath over which you have to drive in order to move your car from your property to the carriageway, you need to clear it to the standard appropriate to a footpath, and not merely to the minimal extent necessary to enable you to drive across it.

For the record, I'm not aware of any reported case in which someone who slipped successfully sued an adjacent property owner who had cleared, or attempted to clear, the road or footpath outside their home.

Victor

Use the grit that councils use - a combination of salt and grit. Salt alone is an issue if the water re-freezes.

GM228

Would the ad medium filum principle impose any obligations I wonder?

Claw Hammer

There should be personal liability on a household insurance policy which would cover a claim if one was made. A claimant would face a number of practical difficulties. Establishing who cleared the snow, that it was done in a foreseeably negligent manner, that the social utility does not outweigh the risk, the likelihood that the evidence will have literally melted away by the time the injured party gets to a solicitor and the high level of contributory negligence which would be inevitable. It is not to say someone mightn't try it on so make sure that there is insurance.

NUTLEY BOY

GM228 wrote: »

Would the ad medium filum principle impose any obligations I wonder?

I would suspect not on the practical basis that the local authority has effectively taken the ad medium filum area in charge and they effect repairs and maintenance as required.

A fortior, would I, or my plumber, not need to obtain a licence from a local authority to open the footpath outside the front gate to repair a burst water pipe for which I am responsible ?

NUTLEY BOY

I know that we have done this to bits but has there been any case law in Ireland yet on liability for slipping on ice / snow on a public footpath ?

I saw a chap this morning clearing snow from the public footpath in the immediate vicinity of a pedestrian crossing. He was not a local authority employee. Very civic minded I am sure but would he now need to keep that clear until the snow and ice disappear ? Put another way, has he now created / imposed a duty of care on himself towards the public ?

Graham

LEGAL ADVICE FOR SNOW CLEARANCE AND GRITTING
The Office of the Attorney General has advised that liability does not arise when snow is cleared from footpaths in a safe manner.

Source: https://www.winterready.ie/en/guides/advice-home

hullaballoo

Graham wrote: »

Source: https://www.winterready.ie/en/guides/advice-home

What about when it's cleared in an unsafe manner?

For example, today I went and cleared a tetris-shaped Z in front of my gate. For no other reason than I've a grá for tetris and the demise of people around me.

But what is my liability?

Would it be different if I cleared the whole path from my gate to the road but left a tetris-shaped Z in the middle?

Tbh, I think the whole area of liability for snow and ice is a farce and if liability ever attaches to someone who clears/grits/salts roads against it, I'll probably give up the law.

Andy From Sligo

Graham wrote: »

Source: https://www.winterready.ie/en/guides/advice-home

thanks for posting that.

It makes you wonder how "in a safe manner" - could be interpreted in Law.

if it was made clearer that 'general public' must not clear or put salt/grit down on council property (ie road/pavement) and that only a council representative/worker can do that only then it would make it clearer who is at fault should a member of public slip on a council pavement/road and there wouldnt be no risk at all of a general member of public being sued for clearing paths outside their property.

Noting that about the boiling water and how it can form black ice - I have seen people clear their footpath (maybe not fully or put any salt down afterwards) and the remaining snow icing over and being more slippier than if they just left the snow there (in other words sometime if the snow is there you can get a bit more grip walking on the snow, rather than walking on ice)

If t was left up to the councils to clear the pavements they more than likely have the best tools (in the way of snow movers, maybe powered ones and good shovels) and the stuff (salt/grit) to put down afterwards, much better than any home-owner can possibly have or get access to.

beauf

What if a child cleared it.

hullaballoo

beauf wrote: »

What if a child cleared it.

Liability, if it ever exists, attaches to the child's parents.

beauf

hullaballoo wrote: »

Liability, if it ever exists, attaches to the child's parents.

have you any example of anything remotely similar happening previously.

Victor

I wonder if someone clearing snow can be done for littering?

Two situations:
* Moving snow from private property to public property.
* Moving snow from one piece of public property to another piece of public property.

I'm thinking more that that clear a road to block a path - not people throwing snowballs.

“litter” means a substance or object, whether or not intended as waste (other than waste within the meaning of the Waste Management Act, 1996 , which is properly consigned for disposal) that, when deposited in a place other than a litter receptacle or other place lawfully designated for the deposit, is or is likely to become unsightly, deleterious, nauseous or unsanitary, whether by itself or with any other such substance or object, and regardless of its size or volume or the extent of the deposit;

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/1982/act/11/enacted/en/html
http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/1997/act/12/enacted/en/html

GM228

Victor wrote: »

I wonder if someone clearing snow can be done for littering?

Two situations:
* Moving snow from private property to public property.
* Moving snow from one piece of public property to another piece of public property.

I'm thinking more that that clear a road to block a path - not people throwing snowballs.



http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/1982/act/11/enacted/en/html
http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/1997/act/12/enacted/en/html

Well snow isn't an object, could it be considered a substance?

I don't think snow could ever be considered to be litter as the flip side is it would create a duty of home owners for example to clear their entire garden of snow or for local authorities to remove as far as practicable (not just plough to one side) snow from all their roads under obligations of the 1997 Act.

the_pen_turner

is a snowman an object

Claw Hammer

the_pen_turner wrote: »

is a snowman an object

A snowman, is, in legal terms, a man of straw.

Andy From Sligo

the 2 eyes made of coal and a carrot for a nose definately would be classed as objects! .....