Chris Froome tests positive for Salbutamol

check_six

lescol wrote: »

Just throwing this in, maybe somebody could pass on Aidan O'Mahony's contact details to Chris Froome:D

https://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/best-possible-outcome-for-star-omahony-26507965.html

"It emerged yesterday that the level of Salbutamol in O'Mahony's system was 1,977ng/ml, almost twice the 1,000 ng/ml threshold the WADA allow for users of asthma inhalers."

Hmm, if a vague explanation with no scientific backing whatsoever and no critical investigation is good enough to clear O'Mahony's name, it's good enough for Froome. My suspicions have evaporated.

Reading the article you can see it was O'Mahony's second offence for the same infraction. They didn't even bother bringing it up the first time around.

Also, I do think it was a crucial point that a bit of Mass was mentioned as part of the excuse. Could be worth investing in a teeny gold cross on a chain, Chris!

terrydel

check_six wrote: »

Hmm, if a vague explanation with no scientific backing whatsoever and no critical investigation is good enough to clear O'Mahony's name, it's good enough for Froome. My suspicions have evaporated.

Reading the article you can see it was O'Mahony's second offence for the same infraction. They didn't even bother bringing it up the first time around.

Also, I do think it was a crucial point that a bit of Mass was mentioned as part of the excuse. Could be worth investing in a teeny gold cross on a chain, Chris!

Ah sure GAA players are the worlds greatest athletes, why did he even need it?

odyssey06

lescol wrote: »

Just throwing this in, maybe somebody could pass on Aidan O'Mahony's contact details to Chris Froome:D
https://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/best-possible-outcome-for-star-omahony-26507965.html
"It emerged yesterday that the level of Salbutamol in O'Mahony's system was 1,977ng/ml, almost twice the 1,000 ng/ml threshold the WADA allow for users of asthma inhalers."

"In his evidence, O'Mahony admitted that his asthma was so bad on the eve of the All-Ireland that he probably should not have played."

If you are having a severe asthma attack, you have absolutely no business stepping onto a sports field, professional or amateur. People should know there will be sporting consequences if they do so, and maybe that will make them a bit more sensible about using powerful medication.

Leroy42

As some others have said, if you need to take serious amount of drugs, over what WADA has deemed acceptable, just to be able to compete then that really tells you all you need to know.

Sure, its a bummer to have done all the training, all the sacrifice etc, just to get sick the morning of the biggest stage, but thems the breaks. Your body is telling you something and athletes are not listening.

Back to Froome specifically, if the UCI really are interested in sorting out the murky past (and present) then Froome needs to be made an example of. We all saw the massive damage that eventually was done by UCI taking the view that LA was too big to take down.

They dropped the ball with Contador and we all know the images from the TV with some fans with syringes etc. Froome already is not liked and any if they take a soft approach on this it will just make things worse

Chips Lovell

lescol wrote: »

"It emerged yesterday that the level of Salbutamol in O'Mahony's system was 1,977ng/ml, almost twice the 1,000 ng/ml threshold the WADA allow for users of asthma inhalers."

Unless the rules have changed between now and then (and I don't think they have), O'Mahony should have been suspended.

It doesn't matter if the committee didn't think he was attempting to enhance his sporting performance.

The only way of avoiding a ban is proving, "through a controlled pharmacokinetic study, that the abnormal result was the consequence of the use of the therapeutic dose (by inhalation) up to the maximum dose indicated above."

ford2600

odyssey06 wrote: »

"In his evidence, O'Mahony admitted that his asthma was so bad on the eve of the All-Ireland that he probably should not have played."

If you are having a severe asthma attack, you have absolutely no business stepping onto a sports field, professional or amateur. People should know there will be sporting consequences if they do so, and maybe that will make them a bit more sensible about using powerful medication.

http://www.the42.ie/omahony-played-with-broken-leg-out-of-fear-265125-Oct2011/

Sometimes athletes do stupid stuff.

Niall Cahalane won his first county final with two broken fingers.

Competitive athletes who win tend to think in the very short term

el tel

Sure a mass-going GAA-playing  asthmatic quare fella muck savage would never do something like willfully get loaded on salbutamol. Twice.

Keeks

Macy0161 wrote: »

Not without a provisional suspension he shouldn't

Sky are being very confident of getting no suspension for them not to have provisionally suspended him.

If they did this then it would be seen as an admission of guilt.....they’ve dug a hole for themselves with thier cleaner than clean talk.....they’ve got to keeping digging now

Roger_007

Why do so many top athletes seem to be suffering from asthma? Is it real or invented?
Also, if a substance other than ones naturaly produced by the body is deemed to be performance enhancing, why is any level tolerated?

Keeks

Roger_007 wrote: »

Why do so many top athletes seem to be suffering from asthma? Is it real or invented?
Also, if a substance other than ones naturaly produced by the body is deemed to be performance enhancing, why is any level tolerated?

Its real....there are lots of reasons people develop asthma, and especially athletes....if you take cyclists for example, as lot of their trianing is done on public roads inhales exhaust fumes, so overtime it is possible for that to trigger asthma in people...just one example.

As for tolerating levels of drug use there is a Difference between “perfromance enhancing “ and “therapeutic use”.....

For example......if you have a headache no one is going to stop you from taking twp paracetamol and going to work.....they might if you take a line of coke to treat the headache

If you stopped ecey cyclist from using any drug theraputic use, there woud bevery few left at theend of a 3 week tour, what with cuts, bites, sun burn, stomach problems, dehydration, etc etc etc

There are rules to follow...eveyone knows them.....Froome was way overthe limit....and its going to need a really good reason.

What i dont get is if both Sky and the UCI know this 3 months, why isnt this put to bed and the explanation given? Why the delay?

Macy0161

Roger_007 wrote: »

Why do so many top athletes seem to be suffering from asthma? Is it real or invented?

It is real, and there are medical reasons why endurance athlete's are more susceptible to it than general population. I'm not qualified to give an opinion, but people who are who I trust, do not see the levels in cycling as abnormal.

I'm a (very) long way from elite, but I didn't get diagnosed until my late 30's. Diagnosis coincided with me actually doing exercise! So it's not particularly over reported in endurance athletes, probably more under reported in the general, sedentary population.

Eamonnator

odyssey06 wrote: »

"In his evidence, O'Mahony admitted that his asthma was so bad on the eve of the All-Ireland that he probably should not have played."

If you are having a severe asthma attack, you have absolutely no business stepping onto a sports field, professional or amateur. People should know there will be sporting consequences if they do so, and maybe that will make them a bit more sensible about using powerful medication.

Ah, but he went to Mass that morning, that made all the difference.

petethedrummer

Elite Athlete Checklist:

• Have Talent,
• Practice skills,
• Train hard,
• Rest hard,
• Be lucky,
• Manage injuries,
• Manage stress,
• Goal Set,
• Don't party too hard,
• Manage Family life,
• Don't get caught for PEDs,
• Have good excuse if caught for PEDs.

I'm rooting for Chris. I hope he comes up with an acceptable excuse. I believe in his ability to do this. He is a complete athlete.

CrowdedHouse

https://twitter.com/DrumStig/status/942776978821836800

petethedrummer

nak wrote: »

No. You don't need a TUE for salbutamol. Plus it's has no real benefit to non asthmatics.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10912897

It could provide a marginal gain, for want of a better term.

check_six

petethedrummer wrote: »

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10912897

It could provide a marginal gain, for want of a better term.

Frankly, I'm stunned that anyone did not immediately discount the idea that the stuff was taken through a regular inhaler. Still, I suppose we'll have to wait and see what bogus fairytale we are fed first before calling for the headsman's axe.

RobFowl

check_six wrote: »

Frankly, I'm stunned that anyone did not immediately discount the idea that the stuff was taken through a regular inhaler. Still, I suppose we'll have to wait and see what bogus fairytale we are fed first before calling for the headsman's axe.

Very few if anyone informed feels that 2-3 puffs of an inhaler were the cause of this inhaler. Even 8 over 12 hrs.

petethedrummer

Chris needs to deny deny deny. He must show the same fortitude he showed to reach the top of his sport. He can't and won't lose his nerve now. He needs experts, doctors and scientists to come to his aide. There must be a loophole. He need's character referees. I hope he can show he's a christian or gives to charity. Evidence of his humanity. Has he done a documentary fly on the wall and showed his human side? That would help. He is British and White, so that helps. Because white Brits don't dope. But is he really British? He was born outside the UK. So, that would make him a bit cheaty. Hmmm the British press might not be on his side. We'll see.

Anyway, if he doesn't get away with it he should be contrite. He got carried away, he felt pressured, family to support, he didn't know how they got there, someone spiked his shandy, he just took it once in a moment of weakness, he kept the salbutamol in the fridge next to the milk to remind him of the evils of doping and then poured it in his tea by accident. He might then able to forge a return to the sport. If not as an active participant then he can be a pundit or cycling journalist. He could write a book and portray himself as a kind of victim of the cruel system. Come up with concrete solutions for the young people entering the sport. Chris doesn't want his son to be faced with the same decisions he had to face.

He must not do what Dwain Chambers did and openly say he took drugs to go faster. There is no place for this kind of candour in Elite Sport.

harringtonp

RobFowl wrote: »

Very few if anyone informed feels that 2-3 puffs of an inhaler were the cause of this inhaler. Even 8 over 12 hrs.

I've been wondering about the puffs after the stage and just before the test. Is there any chance these could cause the numbers to skyrocket ?

Perhaps the analogy is completely wrong but I thinking along the lines of a blood alcohol test which ones knows will be conducted at 5pm and where one is trying to consume as much alcohol as possible but remain under a generous limit. So guidelines might be no more than 12 half pints in a 12 hour period. In most situation the pints are knocked back the night before or in the morning and then nothing goes in for hours or if it does it is small regularly spaced quantities. A guy gets a feel for how close he can sail and stay under the limit for tests. Then one day he has a brain wave (or freeze) and to impress his mates knocks back 3 pints quickly just before the blood test on top of what was consumed either hours previously and/or spaced throughout the day.

The above seems terribly stupid and naive. If it is well known to be the case though (that it would cause a spike), it would make a good cover story for overuse during the day.

harringtonp

odyssey06 wrote: »

"In his evidence, O'Mahony admitted that his asthma was so bad on the eve of the All-Ireland that he probably should not have played."

If you are having a severe asthma attack, you have absolutely no business stepping onto a sports field, professional or amateur. People should know there will be sporting consequences if they do so, and maybe that will make them a bit more sensible about using powerful medication.

In this case I find it hard to believe that a Gaelic footballer is deliberately overdosing on Salbutamol because he genuinely believes it will make him superman in the match. If it was me I wouldn't be bothering with hiring legal aid and I'd like to think I'd have the nerve to make a statement along the lines of:

"I've put in huge hours and made big sacrifices to play in these championship games. I was in bits beforehand due to a bad asthma attack and wasn't prepared to declare myself unfit. I took as many puffs of Salbutamol as I felt was needed to get me through the game in as fit a state as possible. I don't care for drugs in general and neither do I care for what the limits of them are. If I'm deemed to have cheated or acted illegally and am banned then so be it. I'll happily take my fine ball skills to a sport (..soccer..) where I can potentially get paid to educate myself on banned substances and their limits"

MPFGLB

But this now may have some answers

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27164986

MPFGLB

harringtonp wrote: »

In this case I find it hard to believe that a Gaelic footballer is deliberately overdosing on Salbutamol because he genuinely believes it will make him superman in the match. If it was me I wouldn't be bothering with hiring legal aid and I'd like to think I'd have the nerve to make a statement along the lines of:

"I've put in huge hours and made big sacrifices to play in these championship games. I was in bits beforehand due to a bad asthma attack and wasn't prepared to declare myself unfit. I took as many puffs of Salbutamol as I felt was needed to get me through the game in as fit a state as possible. I don't care for drugs in general and neither do I care for what the limits of them are. If I'm deemed to have cheated or acted illegally and am banned then so be it. I'll happily take my fine ball skills to a sport (..soccer..) where I can potentially get paid to educate myself on banned substances and their limits" [ /QUOTE]

A bit of throwing your toys out of the pram there ...if he can get paid for his great balls skills then he should go asap but WADA will still ban him there

BowSideChamp

RobFowl wrote: »

Very few if anyone informed feels that 2-3 puffs of an inhaler were the cause of this inhaler. Even 8 over 12 hrs.

Really?

The probable reason is the wide and unpredictable inter­personal and intrapersonal variability in the metabolism and excretion of salbutamol [14]. If the permitted maximal dose was to be administered rapidly, such as in 3–4 h, then it is highly likely to result in a urinary level of salbutamol above 1000 ng⋅mL−1. GlaxoSmithKline demonstrated this in 1988, when 15 healthy volunteers were administered a single dose of 1200 μg inhaled salbutamol and in seven out of the 15 subjects the urinary salbutamol concentrations were greater than 1000 ng⋅mL−1 with one subject exceeding 3000 ng⋅mL−1 [15].

his recommendation was due to one Swiss athlete whose urinary salbutamol was reported to be ∼8000 ng⋅mL−1 after inhaling only 900 μg of salbutamol in 5 h. Subsequently, two pharma­cological studies revealed his urinary salbutamol concentration was between 3000 and 4000 ng⋅mL−1 after 900 μg of inhaled salbutamol in 5 h [16].

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4933613/

petethedrummer

Pa8301 wrote: »

If he does get a ban it will be interesting to see if Team Sky adhere to their zero tolerance policy and sack him.

Is that actually still a thing? I haven't been watching cycling in the last 2 years. Has that facade not been dropped yet?

Sorry if I missed the sarcasm in your post.

odyssey06

harringtonp wrote: »

In this case I find it hard to believe that a Gaelic footballer is deliberately overdosing on Salbutamol because he genuinely believes it will make him superman in the match. If it was me I wouldn't be bothering with hiring legal aid and I'd like to think I'd have the nerve to make a statement along the lines of:

"I've put in huge hours and made big sacrifices to play in these championship games. I was in bits beforehand due to a bad asthma attack and wasn't prepared to declare myself unfit. I took as many puffs of Salbutamol as I felt was needed to get me through the game in as fit a state as possible. I don't care for drugs in general and neither do I care for what the limits of them are. If I'm deemed to have cheated or acted illegally and am banned then so be it. I'll happily take my fine ball skills to a sport (..soccer..) where I can potentially get paid to educate myself on banned substances and their limits"

I don't think O'Mahony was trying to gain an advantage, but he was putting his body through superhuman efforts, at long term risk to his own health.
He should care what the limits of drugs them are or nobody will be surprised if he ends up dead before his time from abuse of prescription medication, regardless of whether he continues to play any sport. If he doesn't care what the limits are, if he declares he will not comply with the GAA policy, he should be banned for life from GAA.

I would have thought one of the most compelling reasons for banning certain performance enhancers and not others is due to the risk they place on long term health of the athlete. That's why the limits are set as they are for salbutamol.
It's for similar compelling reasons sports are moving to make the team doctor personally responsible for assessing if a potentially concussed player can return to the field... not the player themselves, not the coach.
Would he be happy if the team doctor in soccer tells him he can't play because his asthma is out of control???

The same applies for Froome - if we take the best possible view of him that the dose was exceeded as he was combating an asthma attack rather than trying to gain strategic edge.

If all that matters is the will to win, and commitment, and the long term health of the athlete matters not a jot, then we should allow all PEDs and abolish all TUE limits and exemptions and have a free for all.

Macy0161

harringtonp wrote: »

I've been wondering about the puffs after the stage and just before the test. Is there any chance these could cause the numbers to skyrocket ?

tbh in my totally non medically qualified opinion wouldn't it take time for any drug to work through your system into your urine? Not qualified, but the only similar thing I've heard about is breath tests being skewed by consumption of alcohol (including mouthwash), which wouldn't really be relevant here.

I would tend to think that it is them using some method other than the standard inhaled dose(s) over the standard time period though, be that bigger doses or non-inhaled/ nebuliser. And they just got the dose wrong.

1bryan

petethedrummer wrote: »

Chris needs to deny deny deny. He must show the same fortitude he showed to reach the top of his sport. He can't and won't lose his nerve now. He needs experts, doctors and scientists to come to his aide. There must be a loophole. He need's character referees. I hope he can show he's a christian or gives to charity. Evidence of his humanity. Has he done a documentary fly on the wall and showed his human side? That would help. He is British and White, so that helps. Because white Brits don't dope. But is he really British? He was born outside the UK. So, that would make him a bit cheaty. Hmmm the British press might not be on his side. We'll see.

Anyway, if he doesn't get away with it he should be contrite. He got carried away, he felt pressured, family to support, he didn't know how they got there, someone spiked his shandy, he just took it once in a moment of weakness, he kept the salbutamol in the fridge next to the milk to remind him of the evils of doping and then poured it in his tea by accident. He might then able to forge a return to the sport. If not as an active participant then he can be a pundit or cycling journalist. He could write a book and portray himself as a kind of victim of the cruel system. Come up with concrete solutions for the young people entering the sport. Chris doesn't want his son to be faced with the same decisions he had to face.

He must not do what Dwain Chambers did and openly say he took drugs to go faster. There is no place for this kind of candour in Elite Sport.

you forgot;

he must come back after whatever ban is imposed as a forthright anti-doping advocate. He should carry an inhaler with him at all times to remind him of those dark days. Or course, a second book goes without saying. Then he can get a job coaching the British youth riders while jetting off all around the world doing appearances for masarati, who he can become an ambassador for.

Russman

BowSideChamp wrote: »

Really?





https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4933613/

But does any of that matter ? He's responsible for what's in his own body. If he put himself over the limit, it doesn't matter if its an "accident" or not, surely. How can a defence of "I didn't realise a few puffs would put me over the threshold" be acceptable ? The floodgates would open.

Pa8301

petethedrummer wrote: »

Is that actually still a thing? I haven't been watching cycling in the last 2 years. Has that facade not been dropped yet?

Sorry if I missed the sarcasm in your post.

I will be genuinely interested to see if they actually do maintain that position when it is their top rider that's affected as opposed to a Geert Leinders or a Sean Yates. They are still maintaining that facade that they are whiter than white.

robyntmorton

Pa8301 wrote: »

I will be genuinely interested to see if they actually do maintain that position when it is their top rider that's affected as opposed to a Geert Leinders or a Sean Yates. They are still maintaining that facade that they are whiter than white.

That right there is their problem. If they maintain their massive campaign of "We didn't break the rules. He didn't break the rules" then if/when he is found to have broken the rules, they will have no choice but to toss him, or admit the whiter than white don't cross the line philosophy is total bull****, and that could collapse the team outright.