Chris Froome tests positive for Salbutamol

Eamonnator

degsie wrote: »

So, natural selection?

I suppose so.
I would not like to think that the U.C.I. or Cycling Ireland or any governing body would be prepared to oversee such an obscenity.

1bryan

odyssey06 wrote: »

I replied to the query: "I struggle to recall a case of someone testing positive that was in the news?"
I listed documented example of positive tests and bans - including one of the most famous footballers in the history of the sport.

If you want to think soccer is clean, or not - that is your prerogative. You seem to be furiously bashing a soccer is clean strawman, a strawman which exists in your head and bears no relation to any post I have made in this thread.

I couldn't care less about soccer. Horrendous game. But I can't let it pass when someone tries to claim they try to catch cheats. It's no better than any other sport. Probably worse than most because of the amounts of money involved.

Donnielighto

1bryan wrote: »

I couldn't care less about soccer. Horrendous game. But I can't let it pass when someone tries to claim they try to catch cheats. It's no better than any other sport. Probably worse than most because of the amounts of money involved.

No evidence its worse than cycling. No evidence any major sport is as rotten tbh.

C3PO

The problem with cycling, and athletics too, is that performance enhancing drugs make a huge difference to results! In most other sports the gains are marginal but in cycling the perception, and possibly the reality, is that you simply cannot compete without the aid of PEDs!

Donnielighto

C3PO wrote: »

The problem with cycling, and athletics too, is that performance enhancing drugs make a huge difference to results! In most other sports the gains are marginal but in cycling the perception, and possibly the reality, is that you simply cannot compete without the aid of PEDs!

True, its much more physical based than other sports where skill has a major bearing.

RobFowl

Jaysus lads, its a thread about Chris Froome !
Leave soccer out of it.......

brocbrocach

1bryan wrote: »

Lemond and Fignon would be the only 2 I'd tend to believe.

Non á Fignon!
He as much as admitted he took stuff.
That's what wrecked him after his big early successes.

Lumen

Donnielighto wrote: »

True, its much more physical based than other sports where skill has a major bearing.

Skill is important in cycling, it's just harder to see.

If you want to see cycling without skill, watch triathlon. The crashes are hilarious.

1bryan

brocbrocach wrote: »

Non á Fignon!
He as much as admitted he took stuff.
That's what wrecked him after his big early successes.

true, but he did also say that he knew he'd had it when he struggled to keep up with nobodies on climbs towards the end of his career.

Maybe he took stuff, but I think EPO was just coming onstream towards the end of his career and he wouldn't have taken that. When he saw the effects of it on the peleton he'd had enough.

Maybe Fignon was cleaner, as opposed to clean.

brocbrocach

1bryan wrote: »

true, but he did also say that he knew he'd had it when he struggled to keep up with nobodies on climbs towards the end of his career.

Maybe he took stuff, but I think EPO was just coming onstream towards the end of his career and he wouldn't have taken that. When he saw the effects of it on the peleton he'd had enough.

Maybe Fignon was cleaner, as opposed to clean.

That's being charitable to him I think. He took what was going in the period when he was a top rider. He was a spent force when EPO arrived and probably didn't feel the need to endanger himself at that stage either.
Still a really class cyclist, no doubt about that.
The outrage over both Froome and Contador getting done for reasonably smalltime stimulants shows that the sport might be moving on. It feels a bit like Al Capone getting done for taxes. You might get a week ban for Clen or salbutamol in the roaring 80s? Big step down from EPO obviously.

RobFowl

brocbrocach wrote: »

The outrage over both Froome and Contador getting done for reasonably smalltime stimulants shows that the sport might be moving on. It feels a bit like Al Capone getting done for taxes. You might get a week ban for Clen or salbutamol in the roaring 80s? Big step down from EPO obviously.

I recall a rider getting a 10 minute penalty in a GT for testosterone...
Was allowed continue.

kevingonewest

RobFowl wrote: »

brocbrocach wrote: »

The outrage over both Froome and Contador getting done for reasonably smalltime stimulants shows that the sport might be moving on. It feels a bit like Al Capone getting done for taxes. You might get a week ban for Clen or salbutamol in the roaring 80s? Big step down from EPO obviously.

I recall a rider getting a 10 minute penalty in a GT for testosterone...
Was allowed continue.

They went to slap his wrist & thought, no, that would be cruel.

kevingonewest

Weepsie wrote: »

Mod: There was a warning only a few posts ago. Keep it on topic. Froome/Sky case. We can discuss the rights and wrongs of various sports in a separate thread some day

[font=Calibri, sans-serif]Looks like you removed my comment, which quoted a previous comment that was solely about soccer, and brought that back to cycling & SKY's influence in both sports. Your earlier post was solely on soccer as well.[/font]

mezzanine08

death1234567 wrote: »

It's amazing how having asthma is such an advantage that pretty much every endurance athlete has it these days. What's the figure in cycling, around 80% of the pro-peleton?

The great thing about this is that is again shows up that teams are still doping, they are just using "legal" drugs now.

I know I'm quoting an old post and that it's probably sarcasm but I would like to make it clear to people that having asthma is most definitely not an advantage due to the medication.. even when asthma is under control with corticosteroid therapy, asthmatic's airways are naturally more restricted than "normal" people. Inhaled salbutamol only causes smooth muscle relaxation in the lungs and not throughout the body (which would be a major advantage and why vasodiolator pills aren't allowed).

High doses of over 1mg/mL (Froome's was 2mg/mL) have some reports that it could affect vasodilation in the rest of the body but it's not so significant that it would be preferable to be asthmatic...

And to be clear I'm not defending Froome. If he even does in fact have asthma then I simply refuse to believe that he could perform at an almost superhuman level without the aid of something illegal.

Captain Havoc

kevingonewest wrote: »

[font=Calibri, sans-serif]Looks like you removed my comment, which quoted a previous comment that was solely about soccer, and brought that back to cycling & SKY's influence in both sports. Your earlier post was solely on soccer as well.[/font]

If you have a problem with a mod decision, please PM the mod rather than derailing the thread.

CramCycle

kevingonewest wrote: »

[font=Calibri, sans-serif]Looks like you removed my comment, which quoted a previous comment that was solely about soccer, and brought that back to cycling & SKY's influence in both sports. Your earlier post was solely on soccer as well.[/font]

MOD VOICE: If you have an issue with the moderation, please send me a PM, do not respond in thread.

Eamonnator

Could you repeat that, please.

CantGetNoSleep

Eamonnator wrote: »

Could you repeat that, please.

Mod note this is a discussion board but please only discuss what we tell you to.

This is getting almost as bad as the bargain alerts thread

Beasty

CantGetNoSleep wrote: »

Mod note this is a discussion board but please only discuss what we tell you to.

If you want to discuss something else Cycling related, please feel free to start another thread. If you want to discuss something about another sport, we have an off-topic thread. This thread's all about Froome and Salbutamol (or that's my reading of the thread title anyway)

eeeee

1bryan

The Sky noise seems to be drowning out the unbelievable (yes, unbelievable) early season success Quick-Step are having. Not suggesting anything untoward with QS, but if it was Sky getting those results, eyebrows would certainly be raised.

py

1bryan wrote: »

The Sky noise seems to be drowning out the unbelievable (yes, unbelievable) early season success Quick-Step are having. Not suggesting anything untoward with QS, but if it was Sky getting those results, eyebrows would certainly be raised.

QS have always produced results in the one day races early in the season though.

carltonleon

QS really are set up for the one day Classic races, just look at their rota. It would appear to be the main focus of the team which is probably why Dan moved

Brian?

py wrote: »

QS have always produced results in the one day races early in the season though.

No it’s pure cheating. They went out an signed most of the best one day riders in the world. Bastards.

1bryan

carltonleon wrote: »

QS really are set up for the one day Classic races, just look at their rota. It would appear to be the main focus of the team which is probably why Dan moved

they're more than that, though. Or at least, they want to be. I presume that's why they signed Dan in the first place and, in Alaphilippe they have one of the best climbers in the world, and someone who is definitely not a one-day race rider.

And my original point isn't that QS are dodgy. It's that, if Sky were doing what they were doing, eyebrows would be raised. Says more about how everything Sky do will be looked on with scepticism, even if other teams are enjoying huge levels of success.

magicbastarder

Brian? wrote: »

No it’s pure cheating. They went out an signed most of the best one day riders in the world. Bastards.

they obviously had no budget left over to design a nice looking team kit.

Chips Lovell

Lots of people like Quick Step. Lots of people don't like Sky.

And likeability has a lot to do with it. It means they don't care quite so much about stuff such as allegations of Gilbert over-using cortisone, the Keisse incident, Boonen's multiple cocaine positives etc.

Harrybelafonte

Baron de Charlus wrote: »

Lots of people like Quick Step. Lots of people don't like Sky.

And likeability has a lot to do with it. It means they don't care quite so much about stuff such as allegations of Gilbert over-using cortisone, the Keisse incident, Boonen's multiple cocaine positives etc.

Sean Kelly had a cocaine positive and we still like him. Boonen liked to party.

Gilbert accusations were anonymous, no results, no evidence.

Keisse was cleared, WADA appealed, banned, Belgian court overturned.

Don't think they're on a par with Froome who has a positive test, which has been jumped on as he is a higher profile rider and becuase of the Team Sky/British Cycling ****show over the last few years

DominoDub

carltonleon wrote: »

QS really are set up for the one day Classic races, just look at their rota. It would appear to be the main focus of the team which is probably why Dan moved

This GCN vid provides a very good overview of the QS Strategy

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bktcRj2wyWU&t=505s

RobFowl

Harrybelafonte wrote: »

Sean Kelly had a cocaine positive and we still like him.

No he didn't
He had one for codeine and one for amphetamines ....

guanciale

The likability point is an interesting angle in that it speaks maybe to the riders credibility as racers.
QS have for a long time had the strongest classics team (20 years) but in that time had a cadre of audacious riders pulling off long range attacks. This in itself has perhaps endeared the team in various incarnations to fans. It also helps that Bonen is a legend and Gilbert is possibly one of the most stylish riders ever to wear a cap.

Sky have very little of that. They dont have the same credibility as racers for many despite having at least the same pedigree as QS.

The culture appears different.

A big factor here are management: Lefevre, Steels, Holm as opposed to the motley crew at Sky.

1bryan

guanciale wrote: »

The likability point is an interesting angle in that it speaks maybe to the riders credibility as racers.
QS have for a long time had the strongest classics team (20 years) but in that time had a cadre of audacious riders pulling off long range attacks. This in itself has perhaps endeared the team in various incarnations to fans. It also helps that Bonen is a legend and Gilbert is possibly one of the most stylish riders ever to wear a cap.

Sky have very little of that. They dont have the same credibility as racers for many despite having at least the same pedigree as QS.

The culture appears different.

A big factor here are management: Lefevre, Steels, Holm as opposed to the motley crew at Sky.

oh, I don't know about that. QS evolved from Mapei, right? They had a right few bogeys in their time. Museuww, for example.

Chips Lovell

Pretty much. The current, Lefevre-run team began as Mapei, was split off into Domo - Farm Frites, which then became Quick Step.

guanciale

1bryan
Maybe you misunderstood. I am not claiming they are unblemished or cleaner than Sky. But they are more respected by fans and media, inspite of inspite of reasonably frequent incidents and a managment team with some interesting backgrounds.
Sky are far less respected and have fewer in mgt who worked during the bleakest days for the sport. Must be a reason for that and likability is as strong as any.

brocbrocach

1bryan wrote: »

in Alaphilippe they have one of the best climbers in the world, and someone who is definitely not a one-day race rider.

Hmmm... I can't agree with either part of that sentence!
The man has a podium in three of the one-day Monuments, he's one-day royalty.

Kaisr Sose

Harrybelafonte wrote: »

Sean Kelly had a cocaine positive and we still like him. Boonen liked to party.

Really? Since he stopped racing ? Maybe he was out partying with Boonen?

When he was racing he got popped for pseudoephedrine from a cough bottle and codine. Minor for the time and today he could have a TUE for both

1bryan

brocbrocach wrote: »

Hmmm... I can't agree with either part of that sentence!
The man has a podium in three of the one-day Monuments, he's one-day royalty.

hah, fair enough. I still see him as a 1-week or Grand Tour rider myself. But can't argue with what you said.

1bryan

guanciale wrote: »

1bryan
Maybe you misunderstood. I am not claiming they are unblemished or cleaner than Sky. But they are more respected by fans and media, inspite of inspite of reasonably frequent incidents and a managment team with some interesting backgrounds.
Sky are far less respected and have fewer in mgt who worked during the bleakest days for the sport. Must be a reason for that and likability is as strong as any.

ah ok, I get you. Agree with all of that. Maybe it's because Sky were a bunch of bluffers who had a miraculous transformation, whereas Mapei/QS were just always good. Also, the low countries has that history of cycling whereas Britain doesn't. Transgressions seem to escalate into major outrages into the countries newer to cycling (USA and Britain) whereas Spain, Italy, etc, seem to get a pass in that regard despite being no cleaner.

Lusk_Doyle

Harrybelafonte wrote: »

Don't think they're on a par with Froome who has a positive test

Wasn't it an adverse analytical finding as it's not a banned substance?

Semantics, I know, but these things can all come down to what a word means or how it is interpreted.

terrydel

Sky's spin and bull**** factory has a lot to do with it for me.
The level they do both at is simply incredible, a large multinational tech company couldn't keep up with it.
Maybe I'm naïve and stupid, but perhaps a bit more humility and honesty from them, accepting their punishment when they've wronged, rather than trying to PR their way out of everything, and their likeability might increase.
Brailisford is a guy who looked like he learned to talk on LinkedIn, 'reach out', 'passionate' all that corporate office bull****. That for me makes him and them utterly detestable.

flatty

Edit, off topic.

Harrybelafonte

RobFowl wrote: »

No he didn't
He had one for codeine and one for amphetamines ....

Apologies. I should have double checked that.

Lusk_Doyle wrote: »

Wasn't it an adverse analytical finding as it's not a banned substance?

Semantics, I know, but these things can all come down to what a word means or how it is interpreted.

Semantics are important, so my apologies for misrepresenting it.

Lusk_Doyle

Harrybelafonte wrote: »

Semantics are important, so my apologies for misrepresenting it.

I unreservedly accept your apology.

Harrybelafonte

Lusk_Doyle wrote: »

I unreservedly accept your apology.

Great! Man, that’s a weight off my shoulders.

Lusk_Doyle

Harrybelafonte wrote: »

Great! Man, that’s a weight off my shoulders.

You can't say that anymore. You have to say "Person, that's a weight off my shoulders."

Lusk_Doyle

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/tom-boonen-defends-chris-froome-and-team-sky/

Jaysus, Tom must have a book coming out soon or is feeling a bit left out of late. A desperate attempt to stay relevant between the Sagan comments and now this.

"My daughter uses an inhaler every day." Big fecking deal. What that has to do with the Froome situation is beyond me.

Brian?

Lusk_Doyle wrote: »

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/tom-boonen-defends-chris-froome-and-team-sky/

Jaysus, Tom must have a book coming out soon or is feeling a bit left out of late. A desperate attempt to stay relevant between the Sagan comments and now this.

"My daughter uses an inhaler every day." Big fecking deal. What that has to do with the Froome situation is beyond me.

Tom Boonen is a Belgian cycling legend. He's possibly only 2nd to Merckx. People ask him questions, he answers. That's all there is to it.

40 years after finishing racing Merckx is relevant in Belgium. Tom will be the same. It's whether cyclingnews translate into English that determines if we hear about it.

seanin4711

Much more than the inhaler, it's all the other stuff culminating with froome

Lusk_Doyle

Brian? wrote: »

Tom Boonen is a Belgian cycling legend. He's possibly only 2nd to Merckx. People ask him questions, he answers. That's all there is to it.

40 years after finishing racing Merckx is relevant in Belgium. Tom will be the same. It's whether cyclingnews translate into English that determines if we hear about it.

Great and all as that is, it doesn't answer my question?

at1withmyself

Lusk_Doyle wrote: »

Great and all as that is, it doesn't answer my question?

I'd agree and go with up coming book too!