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Chris Froome tests positive for Salbutamol

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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,275 ✭✭✭koutoubia


    RobFowl wrote: »
    Sport like life is rarely black and white. You can exist in a near constant grey area.

    Why dont tweet Froome and ask him directly.
    He hasnt blocked you or anything . Or has he?


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 11,667 Mod ✭✭✭✭RobFowl


    MPFGLB wrote: »
    But rules are black and white

    He broke the rules...whether it was deliberate or by accident is neither here nor there ....

    All that matters is he was above the legal threshold (twofold above it) and unless he can prove it was not by design then there will be a ban

    So balck and white it kinda is

    Everything else including comparisons to other cheats is immaterial

    If rules are so black and white why isn't he suspended ;)

    Personally think he's been juiced for years but there you go. Thinking 999 is fine and 1000 bad and that there is a massive difference between the 2 is, let me be polite, naive.
    The present system doesn't work and lab based testing needs to be part rather than all the system.
    At one end of the Spectrum there are completely clean athletes who don't even push the limits of permitted techniques and at the other end the likes of Rumsas who doped and probably encouraged his kids to dope. In between (and possibly even at those extremes) its shades of grey.


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 11,667 Mod ✭✭✭✭RobFowl


    koutoubia wrote: »
    Why dont tweet Froome and ask him directly.
    He hasnt blocked you or anything . Or has he?

    Went to follow the fooker and despite never having had any interaction with him found I was pre blocked !
    Bit like those credit cards you used to be pre approved for ;)


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,933 Mod ✭✭✭✭CramCycle


    RobFowl wrote: »
    If rules are so black and white why isn't he suspended ;)

    Personally think he's been juiced for years but there you go. Thinking 999 is fine and 1000 bad and that there is a massive difference between the 2 is, let me be polite, naive.
    The present system doesn't work and lab based testing needs to be part rather than all the system.
    At one end of the Spectrum there are completely clean athletes who don't even push the limits of permitted techniques and at the other end the likes of Rumsas who doped and probably encouraged his kids to dope. In between (and possibly even at those extremes) its shades of grey.

    I would disagree, I would say that lab based testing needs to be the be all and end all. I tested animals for years, if an animal failed a test or it was unusual, all the crying and poor me from the farmer in the world didn't change anything.

    A positive is a positive, the lines are drawn, cross them, your done.

    The only issue with anti doping at the minute is the lack of testing, no different than the road traffic act, the only issue is enforcement. Targeting single athletes at a race or a game is idiotic. If an anti doping agent turns up at a race, every rider who signed on that day should be tested. If they turn up at a GAA game, every player who is on the tea sheets and so on.

    All the current single athlete targeting system tells us is that they don't want to catch alot of people in certain sports.


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 11,667 Mod ✭✭✭✭RobFowl


    CramCycle wrote: »
    A positive is a positive, the lines are drawn, cross them, your done.

    Here we have Schrodingers cat though !
    Froome has failed a test but has an out if he can prove it.
    There seems no timeframe set so while he drags it out is he banned or not banned?

    Also re testing in labs, they never caught LA that way, nor Rasmussen, nor Valverde...


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  • Registered Users Posts: 9,450 ✭✭✭Macy0161


    If he gets 6 months he'll only lose the Vuelta and would be available for selection for the 3 main Grand Tours this year. 8 months would the minimum needed for him to be banned from the Giro.
    It's a whole other clusterf**k if it's backdated without a provisional suspension. Even contadors was backdated to the date of the original suspension, while the appeal was going on.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,444 ✭✭✭TheBlaaMan


    Froome is due to ride the Ruta del Sol next month, so I dont see how any future ban could be backdated to some months ago.


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,933 Mod ✭✭✭✭CramCycle


    RobFowl wrote: »
    Here we have Schrodingers cat though !
    Froome has failed a test but has an out if he can prove it.
    There seems no timeframe set so while he drags it out is he banned or not banned?

    Also re testing in labs, they never caught LA that way, nor Rasmussen, nor Valverde...
    Well they did actually catch LA but the test was swept under the rug. The issue here is the sports leaders being involved at all.
    There should be no out, the limit was high as it was. Anyone who takes that amount to race is not really fit to ride. If the lab is accreditated and the sample shows the same result when retested in another lab, job done.
    It should all be done by an independent testing company, who are independently accredited to ISO and whatever the INAB equivalent in their country is.
    Samples should be 100% anonymised with a. Third party having the only way to identify. The lab identifies the positives, notifies third party (not the sports body or even WADA at this point) who contacts the athlete directly and asks do they want their B sample checked. A guilty plea gets the 4 years, 2 years if under 21. A B sample test positive gets a 10year ban.

    CAS are a joke, letting someone off because they have a competition in a year or two is BS. There should be no arbitration. If a sport wants to advertise as clean, those are the rules, if they don't then just f@ck off and accept that some of your competitors are doping, have no testing and no punishment.


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 11,667 Mod ✭✭✭✭RobFowl


    CramCycle wrote: »
    Well they did actually catch LA but the test was swept under the rug. The issue here is the sports leaders being involved at all.
    There should be no out, the limit was high as it was. Anyone who takes that amount to race is not really fit to ride. If the lab is accreditated and the sample shows the same result when retested in another lab, job done.
    It should all be done by an independent testing company, who are independently accredited to ISO and whatever the INAB equivalent in their country is.
    Samples should be 100% anonymised with a. Third party having the only way to identify. The lab identifies the positives, notifies third party (not the sports body or even WADA at this point) who contacts the athlete directly and asks do they want their B sample checked. A guilty plea gets the 4 years, 2 years if under 21. A B sample test positive gets a 10year ban.

    CAS are a joke, letting someone off because they have a competition in a year or two is BS. There should be no arbitration. If a sport wants to advertise as clean, those are the rules, if they don't then just f@ck off and accept that some of your competitors are doping, have no testing and no punishment.

    Don't disagree with any of that !
    TUE system not just open to abuse but seems designed to legitimise it.
    To me intelligence and whistle-blowers should be used far more often.
    Testing misses far too much.
    Also new meds should be banned by default until approved !
    The should be a see list of permitted meds for specified conditions, none of this molodium nonsense where was permitted for years for dubious reasons.
    That said quite proud of my analogy between Froome and Schrodingers cat ;)

    https://twitter.com/ConorTMcGrane/status/957574942501097473


  • Registered Users Posts: 30 kevingonewest


    'Britain's Cycling Superheroes: The Price of Success' is repeated 6pm today, BBC2. I was impressed with this 1st time round, questions asked which are still hanging around.


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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Cheers forgot that was on again, gas hearing Liggett on commentary in some of the clips. Wasn't he still cheerleading Armstrong long after the fact? Used to love is commentary as a young lad but my opinion of him soured over the LA support.


  • Registered Users Posts: 30 kevingonewest


    Still liked hearing P & P on Tour Down Under earlier, though am very happy not to hear them on the Tour anymore. Just had a quick look at this prog but am hooked again, excellent job done BBC. Hard to beleive SKY still with us.


  • Registered Users Posts: 815 ✭✭✭1bryan


    any thoughts on Froome's latest strava ride?

    seems legit, no?


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 49,592 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    link?


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 20,459 Mod ✭✭✭✭Weepsie




  • Registered Users Posts: 2,991 ✭✭✭el tel


    Weepsie wrote: »

    "Empty the Tank".

    Yeah the salbutamol tank down your gullet :P


  • Registered Users Posts: 880 ✭✭✭mamax


    Here's one for the conspiracy theorist's in this thread :rolleyes:

    Could they possibly find a connection :eek:

    https://www.wada-ama.org/en/media/news/2018-01/wada-investigates-potential-integrity-issue-with-new-generation-bereg-kit-geneva


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 610 ✭✭✭Andy Magic


    1bryan wrote: »
    any thoughts on Froome's latest strava ride?

    seems legit, no?

    I was thinking the same, was it in a group or team training spin?


  • Registered Users Posts: 815 ✭✭✭1bryan


    Andy Magic wrote: »
    I was thinking the same, was it in a group or team training spin?

    from what I can gather from his instagram (cos I'm blocked on twitter), it's all solo.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 610 ✭✭✭Andy Magic


    1bryan wrote: »
    from what I can gather from his instagram (cos I'm blocked on twitter), it's all solo.

    Surely motor pacing then? That avg speed and distance is super human?


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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,718 ✭✭✭AstraMonti


    Andy Magic wrote: »
    Surely motor pacing then? That avg speed and distance is super human?

    A few puffs of the inhaler can be magic.


  • Registered Users Posts: 815 ✭✭✭1bryan


    Andy Magic wrote: »
    Surely motor pacing then? That avg speed and distance is super human?

    only achievable by a super-human, or one with 6 debilitating illnesses.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,010 ✭✭✭velo.2010


    1bryan wrote: »
    from what I can gather from his instagram (cos I'm blocked on twitter), it's all solo.
    Yeah, solo behind a moped!

    Still, that's some going. Replicating the conditions of riding two GT's, back to back, I assume Sky are building up a profile of Froome's response to exertion. If he doesn't come close to reproducing the AAF, Sky will say the test result was a false positive, an anomaly. However, the result stands and the onus is still on Froome to repeat that result.

    Beyond that, the recent Strava uploads are PR for team Sky and Froome.


  • Registered Users Posts: 564 ✭✭✭fishfoodie


    1bryan wrote: »
    only achievable by a super-human, or one with 6 debilitating illnesses.

    Nope, just the next stage in Froomes evolution. He had so much trouble with his gammy lungs, & broken kidneys that he just had them all removed, & bang, super-human perfomance, now he doesn't have those extra organs holding him back.

    4kg unnecessary weight dropped, & boooom !


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,933 Mod ✭✭✭✭CramCycle


    velo.2010 wrote: »
    Yeah, solo behind a moped!

    Still, that's some going. Replicating the conditions of riding two GT's, back to back, I assume Sky are building up a profile of Froome's response to exertion. If he doesn't come close to reproducing the AAF, Sky will say the test result was a false positive, an anomaly. However, the result stands and the onus is still on Froome to repeat that result.

    Beyond that, the recent Strava uploads are PR for team Sky and Froome.

    Repeating the result is only positive if he dopes in the exact same way as which he doped before. It is possibly the stupidest stunt, and if entertained, it will be beyond ridiculousness. Unless there is an independent overseer, following him 24hours a day, every day, then the test is even more pointless as he can just cheat and say, hey look, same thing happened again.

    My mind cannot get around the stupidty of it all but considering CAS upheld the excuse of excessive kissing, I have already given up.


  • Registered Users Posts: 124 ✭✭not sane


    Seen a documentary on him and a mate of his said when there where no steep hills close by he used to pull his brakes to make it harder. You couldn't make it up. The guy is dodgy at the least.


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,450 ✭✭✭Macy0161


    I could see the UCI running with this, even if it is a cop out. Although at the very least, it should be from his last race day, which was the worlds, so 9 months would mean no giro.

    Would have to put a massive question mark over him staying at Sky too - for going against their stated position, and accepting a failed test.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 610 ✭✭✭Andy Magic


    He's just denied the report on FB

    440199.JPG


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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,199 ✭✭✭Keeks


    that the focus is on exploring variables that could have skewed the sample.

    I love this quote from Sky in the article....just sums the team up completely.....there are going to do down swinging...


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