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Chris Froome tests positive for Salbutamol

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    #722
    Eamonnator
    Registered Users Posts: 6,561 ✭✭✭Eamonnator


    Auguste Comte wrote: »
    This is probably a very naive question but why don't they introduce an open class. You turn up with your bike which must be legal and after that it's the fastest rider that wins. "Train" as hard as you can, use whatever "training aids" you like and no testing.

    A lifetime ban for anyone doping in any other class.

    If there was no doping control(open class), riders would progressively take more and more drugs, to remain competitive, and riders would die.


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    #723
    degsie
    Registered Users Posts: 8,748 ✭✭✭degsie


    Eamonnator wrote: »
    If there was no doping control(open class), riders would progressively take more and more drugs, to remain competitive, and riders would die.

    So, natural selection?


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    #724
    Hotblack Desiato
    Registered Users Posts: 35,006 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    Auguste Comte wrote: »
    This is probably a very naive question but why don't they introduce an open class. You turn up with your bike which must be legal and after that it's the fastest rider that wins. "Train" as hard as you can, use whatever "training aids" you like and no testing.

    I can see the sponsors queuing up around the block to get behind that one, alright! :pac:


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    #725
    Eamonnator
    Registered Users Posts: 6,561 ✭✭✭Eamonnator


    degsie wrote: »
    So, natural selection?

    I suppose so.
    I would not like to think that the U.C.I. or Cycling Ireland or any governing body would be prepared to oversee such an obscenity.


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    #726
    1bryan
    Registered Users Posts: 815 ✭✭✭1bryan


    odyssey06 wrote: »
    I replied to the query: "I struggle to recall a case of someone testing positive that was in the news?"
    I listed documented example of positive tests and bans - including one of the most famous footballers in the history of the sport.

    If you want to think soccer is clean, or not - that is your prerogative. You seem to be furiously bashing a soccer is clean strawman, a strawman which exists in your head and bears no relation to any post I have made in this thread.

    I couldn't care less about soccer. Horrendous game. But I can't let it pass when someone tries to claim they try to catch cheats. It's no better than any other sport. Probably worse than most because of the amounts of money involved.


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    #727
    Donnielighto
    Registered Users Posts: 3,761 ✭✭✭Donnielighto


    1bryan wrote: »
    I couldn't care less about soccer. Horrendous game. But I can't let it pass when someone tries to claim they try to catch cheats. It's no better than any other sport. Probably worse than most because of the amounts of money involved.

    No evidence its worse than cycling. No evidence any major sport is as rotten tbh.


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    #728
    C3PO
    Registered Users Posts: 3,761 ✭✭✭C3PO


    The problem with cycling, and athletics too, is that performance enhancing drugs make a huge difference to results! In most other sports the gains are marginal but in cycling the perception, and possibly the reality, is that you simply cannot compete without the aid of PEDs!


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    #729
    Donnielighto
    Registered Users Posts: 3,761 ✭✭✭Donnielighto


    C3PO wrote: »
    The problem with cycling, and athletics too, is that performance enhancing drugs make a huge difference to results! In most other sports the gains are marginal but in cycling the perception, and possibly the reality, is that you simply cannot compete without the aid of PEDs!


    True, its much more physical based than other sports where skill has a major bearing.


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    #730
    RobFowl
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 11,667 Mod ✭✭✭✭RobFowl


    Jaysus lads, its a thread about Chris Froome !
    Leave soccer out of it.......


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    #731
    brocbrocach
    Registered Users Posts: 890 ✭✭✭brocbrocach


    1bryan wrote: »
    Lemond and Fignon would be the only 2 I'd tend to believe.

    Non á Fignon!
    He as much as admitted he took stuff.
    That's what wrecked him after his big early successes.


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    #732
    Weepsie
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 20,459 Mod ✭✭✭✭Weepsie


    <Mod Note>

    Back to the case at hand, ie Froome and no more football/athletics etc (admittedly I engaged a little too).

    There's also been a couple of genearalisations, and things that could be miscontrued as unfounded doping allegations so please be careful in what is being said or stuff will be deleted.

    On topic, I think Froome is bad for the sport at this stage. I think Brailsford is far, far worse though.


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    #733
    Lumen
    Registered Users Posts: 31,083 ✭✭✭✭Lumen


    Donnielighto wrote: »
    True, its much more physical based than other sports where skill has a major bearing.
    Skill is important in cycling, it's just harder to see.

    If you want to see cycling without skill, watch triathlon. The crashes are hilarious.


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    #734
    1bryan
    Registered Users Posts: 815 ✭✭✭1bryan


    brocbrocach wrote: »
    Non á Fignon!
    He as much as admitted he took stuff.
    That's what wrecked him after his big early successes.

    true, but he did also say that he knew he'd had it when he struggled to keep up with nobodies on climbs towards the end of his career.

    Maybe he took stuff, but I think EPO was just coming onstream towards the end of his career and he wouldn't have taken that. When he saw the effects of it on the peleton he'd had enough.

    Maybe Fignon was cleaner, as opposed to clean.


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    #735
    brocbrocach
    Registered Users Posts: 890 ✭✭✭brocbrocach


    1bryan wrote: »
    true, but he did also say that he knew he'd had it when he struggled to keep up with nobodies on climbs towards the end of his career.

    Maybe he took stuff, but I think EPO was just coming onstream towards the end of his career and he wouldn't have taken that. When he saw the effects of it on the peleton he'd had enough.

    Maybe Fignon was cleaner, as opposed to clean.

    That's being charitable to him I think. He took what was going in the period when he was a top rider. He was a spent force when EPO arrived and probably didn't feel the need to endanger himself at that stage either.
    Still a really class cyclist, no doubt about that.
    The outrage over both Froome and Contador getting done for reasonably smalltime stimulants shows that the sport might be moving on. It feels a bit like Al Capone getting done for taxes. You might get a week ban for Clen or salbutamol in the roaring 80s? Big step down from EPO obviously.


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    #736
    RobFowl
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 11,667 Mod ✭✭✭✭RobFowl


    brocbrocach wrote: »
    The outrage over both Froome and Contador getting done for reasonably smalltime stimulants shows that the sport might be moving on. It feels a bit like Al Capone getting done for taxes. You might get a week ban for Clen or salbutamol in the roaring 80s? Big step down from EPO obviously.

    I recall a rider getting a 10 minute penalty in a GT for testosterone...
    Was allowed continue.


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    #737
    kevingonewest
    Registered Users Posts: 30 ✭kevingonewest


    RobFowl wrote: »
    brocbrocach wrote: »
    The outrage over both Froome and Contador getting done for reasonably smalltime stimulants shows that the sport might be moving on. It feels a bit like Al Capone getting done for taxes. You might get a week ban for Clen or salbutamol in the roaring 80s? Big step down from EPO obviously.

    I recall a rider getting a 10 minute penalty in a GT for testosterone...
    Was allowed continue.
    They went to slap his wrist & thought, no, that would be cruel.


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    #738
    Weepsie
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 20,459 Mod ✭✭✭✭Weepsie


    Mod: There was a warning only a few posts ago. Keep it on topic. Froome/Sky case. We can discuss the rights and wrongs of various sports in a separate thread some day


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    #739
    kevingonewest
    Registered Users Posts: 30 ✭kevingonewest


    Weepsie wrote: »
    Mod: There was a warning only a few posts ago. Keep it on topic. Froome/Sky case. We can discuss the rights and wrongs of various sports in a separate thread some day
    [font=Calibri, sans-serif]Looks like you removed my comment, which quoted a previous comment that was solely about soccer, and brought that back to cycling & SKY's influence in both sports. Your earlier post was solely on soccer as well.[/font]


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    #740
    mezzanine08
    Registered Users Posts: 33 ✭mezzanine08


    death1234567 wrote: »
    It's amazing how having asthma is such an advantage that pretty much every endurance athlete has it these days. What's the figure in cycling, around 80% of the pro-peleton?

    The great thing about this is that is again shows up that teams are still doping, they are just using "legal" drugs now.

    I know I'm quoting an old post and that it's probably sarcasm but I would like to make it clear to people that having asthma is most definitely not an advantage due to the medication.. even when asthma is under control with corticosteroid therapy, asthmatic's airways are naturally more restricted than "normal" people. Inhaled salbutamol only causes smooth muscle relaxation in the lungs and not throughout the body (which would be a major advantage and why vasodiolator pills aren't allowed).

    High doses of over 1mg/mL (Froome's was 2mg/mL) have some reports that it could affect vasodilation in the rest of the body but it's not so significant that it would be preferable to be asthmatic...

    And to be clear I'm not defending Froome. If he even does in fact have asthma then I simply refuse to believe that he could perform at an almost superhuman level without the aid of something illegal.


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    #741
    Captain Havoc
    Moderators, Sports Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 11,391 Mod ✭✭✭✭Captain Havoc


    kevingonewest wrote: »
    [font=Calibri, sans-serif]Looks like you removed my comment, which quoted a previous comment that was solely about soccer, and brought that back to cycling & SKY's influence in both sports. Your earlier post was solely on soccer as well.[/font]

    If you have a problem with a mod decision, please PM the mod rather than derailing the thread.

    https://ormondelanguagetours.com

    Walking Tours of Kilkenny in English, French or German.



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    #742
    CramCycle
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,933 Mod ✭✭✭✭CramCycle


    kevingonewest wrote: »
    [font=Calibri, sans-serif]Looks like you removed my comment, which quoted a previous comment that was solely about soccer, and brought that back to cycling & SKY's influence in both sports. Your earlier post was solely on soccer as well.[/font]

    MOD VOICE: If you have an issue with the moderation, please send me a PM, do not respond in thread.


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    #743
    Eamonnator
    Registered Users Posts: 6,561 ✭✭✭Eamonnator


    Could you repeat that, please.


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    #744
    CantGetNoSleep
    Registered Users Posts: 7,251 ✭✭✭CantGetNoSleep


    Eamonnator wrote: »
    Could you repeat that, please.

    Mod note this is a discussion board but please only discuss what we tell you to.

    This is getting almost as bad as the bargain alerts thread


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    #745
    Beasty
    Administrators, Social & Fun Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 76,417 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Beasty


    CantGetNoSleep wrote: »
    Mod note this is a discussion board but please only discuss what we tell you to.
    If you want to discuss something else Cycling related, please feel free to start another thread. If you want to discuss something about another sport, we have an off-topic thread. This thread's all about Froome and Salbutamol (or that's my reading of the thread title anyway)


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    #746
    eeeee
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 6,848 Mod ✭✭✭✭eeeee


    ?u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.wearebw.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2FLoud-Noises.jpg&f=1


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    #747
    1bryan
    Registered Users Posts: 815 ✭✭✭1bryan


    The Sky noise seems to be drowning out the unbelievable (yes, unbelievable) early season success Quick-Step are having. Not suggesting anything untoward with QS, but if it was Sky getting those results, eyebrows would certainly be raised.


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    #748
    py
    Registered Users Posts: 1,582 ✭✭✭py


    1bryan wrote: »
    The Sky noise seems to be drowning out the unbelievable (yes, unbelievable) early season success Quick-Step are having. Not suggesting anything untoward with QS, but if it was Sky getting those results, eyebrows would certainly be raised.

    QS have always produced results in the one day races early in the season though.


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    #749
    carltonleon
    Registered Users Posts: 1,178 ✭✭✭carltonleon


    QS really are set up for the one day Classic races, just look at their rota. It would appear to be the main focus of the team which is probably why Dan moved


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    #750
    Brian?
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 21,361 Mod ✭✭✭✭Brian?


    py wrote: »
    QS have always produced results in the one day races early in the season though.

    No it’s pure cheating. They went out an signed most of the best one day riders in the world. Bastards.

    they/them/theirs


    And so on, and so on …. - Slavoj Žižek




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    #751
    1bryan
    Registered Users Posts: 815 ✭✭✭1bryan


    carltonleon wrote: »
    QS really are set up for the one day Classic races, just look at their rota. It would appear to be the main focus of the team which is probably why Dan moved

    they're more than that, though. Or at least, they want to be. I presume that's why they signed Dan in the first place and, in Alaphilippe they have one of the best climbers in the world, and someone who is definitely not a one-day race rider.

    And my original point isn't that QS are dodgy. It's that, if Sky were doing what they were doing, eyebrows would be raised. Says more about how everything Sky do will be looked on with scepticism, even if other teams are enjoying huge levels of success.


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