Anyone noticing knock on effect of new Luas line?

fly_agaric

no.8 wrote: »

How about we stop moaning about the introduction of new services and actually will them to overcome these issues.

Don't think the knock-on effects on buses can be overcome. Its a great thing for the city overall but if you're coming from the west side of the city via bus route down the quays its tough shít. Buses into the city will be slower now (would imagine north quays would be completely gridlocked almost all the time without the traffic changes made a few months ago)
Many buses were also diverted to take longer routes a few years back when construction started. But omelettes involve breaking eggs, the bus passengers are a captive audience already using public transport so who gives a crap, and metro west will be coming any day now I'm sure! :pac:

MartyMcFly84

There is definitely an inching pace to buses moving down the quay. It was adding another 20/30mins to my trip so have been getting off at Hueston and getting the Luas or even walking would be generally faster.

There has always been an issue of delivery trucks and tour buses pulling up and dropping off in the Bus Lane for years now. This is still happening and with the single lane for buses, they are forced to move out into the already congested car lane.

Combined with the Luas, it is a bit of a mess right now. DCC needs to enforce the traffic restrictions/rules on these routes.

mfceiling

1.45 p.m yesterday and it took 7 light changes to get from Kings Inns Street on to Parnell Street. I was the 4th vehicle in the queue.

Very annoying just watching green light after green light change and not moving an inch.

Gavin "shels"

mfceiling wrote: »

1.45 p.m yesterday and it took 7 light changes to get from Kings Inns Street on to Parnell Street. I was the 4th vehicle in the queue.

Very annoying just watching green light after green light change and not moving an inch.

It's madness, I just started work in town at the start of the month and drive in/home on a Wednesday just - you'd lose the will to live trying to get from the Park Rite carpark, out onto Kings Inns St and onto Parnell. Today wasn't too bad probably as people are off now for Xmas bur last week!! :mad:

nilescraneo

Not enough road space for trams, busses and cars/taxis. In a sane city the council would recognise the obvious IE; that cars move the least amount of people and are the most inefficient use of that limited road space, therefore ban them from using north quays and college green at least at peak times. Do this and you'd see a huge improvement in journey times for bus commuters from west of the city who have no option besides the bus, and who are currently being majorly screwed.

But this is Ireland so the "ah shur it'll miraculously solve itself" attitude prevails. We must be the only city in the world to be able to spend hundreds of millions of euro on a public transport project, and then end up with worse public transport than we began with. Some achievement. fair play to Owen Keegan and his six figure salary!

Dr Brown

nilescraneo wrote: »

Not enough road space for trams, busses and cars/taxis. In a sane city the council would recognise the obvious IE; that cars move the least amount of people and are the most inefficient use of that limited road space, therefore ban them from using north quays and college green at least at peak times. Do this and you'd see a huge improvement in journey times for bus commuters from west of the city who have no option besides the bus, and who are currently being majorly screwed.

But this is Ireland so the "ah shur it'll miraculously solve itself" attitude prevails. We must be the only city in the world to be able to spend hundreds of millions of euro on a public transport project, and then end up with worse public transport than we began with. Some achievement. fair play to Owen Keegan and his six figure salary!

One thing that would help is if they got rid of all the "no right turns" for cars.

Because of the "no right turn" BS you can end up driving around in circles for miles.

Peregrine

Dr Brown wrote: »

One thing that would help is if they got rid of all the "no right turns" for cars.

Because of the "no right turn" BS you can end up driving around in circles for miles.

Another thing that would help is if they got rid of all cars in the city centre.

Because of inefficient cars taking up space, the majority of commuters can end up sitting in traffic for miles.

Gavin "shels"

Peregrine wrote: »

Another thing that would help is if they got rid of all cars in the city centre.

Great solution :rolleyes: Unfortunately it lacks any logistically or logically sense but sure don't let that get in the way.

Imagine having to drive your near due other half to the Rotunda for example. "You'll have to get the 77a" or even better, call an ambulance to waste their resources.

Peregrine

Gavin shels wrote: »

Great solution :rolleyes: Unfortunately it lacks any logistically or logically sense but sure don't let that get in the way.

Imagine having to drive your near due other half to the Rotunda for example. "You'll have to get the 77a" or even better, call an ambulance to waste their resources.

Is that it? Less than half a dozen more ambulances to service the Rotunda (which is moving to Blanch)? That's your big logistical issue? If that's all we need to live in a city free of car traffic, that would be brilliant! The health benefits and worker hours saved would far outweigh the costs of a few ambulances.


Driving your other half to a maternity hospital through College Green, the quays or O'Connell Street is what lacks any logistical or logical sense. Drive around it, you'll get there quicker.

Victor

Gavin shels wrote: »

Imagine having to drive your near due other half to the Rotunda for example. "You'll have to get the 77a" or even better, call an ambulance to waste their resources.

77a would be in The Coombe catchment area. :pac: Rotunda has about 25 births per day, it really is a minority use.

Dr Brown

Peregrine wrote: »

Another thing that would help is if they got rid of all cars in the city centre.

How would that work for people like me who live near the city centre ?

Victor

Dr Brown wrote: »

How would that work for people like me who live near the city centre ?

Of people living in the city centre, only 20% commute by car. I imagine precious few people commute from the city centre to the city centre by car.

There are things that can be done that prevent most car commuting to / through the city centre that still allow the people that actually need a car to still use it - look at the way the tolls on the port tunnel are set up to discourage its use for commuting.

WishUWereHere

MartyMcFly84 wrote: »

There is definitely an inching pace to buses moving down the quay. It was adding another 20/30mins to my trip so have been getting off at Hueston and getting the Luas or even walking would be generally faster.

There has always been an issue of delivery trucks and tour buses pulling up and dropping off in the Bus Lane for years now. This is still happening and with the single lane for buses, they are forced to move out into the already congested car lane.

Combined with the Luas, it is a bit of a mess right now. DCC needs to enforce the traffic restrictions/rules on these routes.

But is it up to DCC or the Gardaí to enforce the law?

I drive down the North Quays practically every day & have seen some shockers.

1) Cars, vans blatantly ignoring the law by driving up the bus lanes
2) Already witnessed a collission at that new set of traffic lights - bus driving along the bus lane when some bloke ( I assume ) got impatient and crossed the solid white line and bouncing off the bus.
3) Saw it all 2 days ago. Driving from the new lights in the middle lane towards O'Connell Bridge, I saw a taxi driving up the inside lane and at the last minute indicating that he/she wanted to turn right while at the same time a taxi in the outside lane wanting to turn left up O'Connell Street. FFS what do these taxi 'drivers' want?

Also, whoever planned a bus to stop on Ormonde Quay, and then expect it to be able to turn right onto Capel Street Bridge needs their head examined - Seen plenty of horns blaring & fist shaking as the bus tries to get right across into the RH lane.

Whatever about the cross city Luas, Bachelors Quay is a complete disaster & needs constant patrolling by Gardaí.

alastair

Victor wrote: »

Of people living in the city centre, only 20% commute by car. I imagine precious few people commute from the city centre to the city centre by car.

Which isn’t much help, in a scenario of a blanket ban, if you want to get your car from your home in the city centre to anywhere, inside or outside the city centre.

Disclaimer: car owner in Dublin 1.

RasTa

alastair wrote: »

Which isn’t much help, in a scenario of a blanket ban, if you want to get your car from your home in the city centre to anywhere, inside or outside the city centre.

Disclaimer: car owner in Dublin 1.

You have a special sticker.

Car owners driving into Dublin city are like the Americans and their guns. I can see why he country folk need them but nobody in Dublin should be driving into town anymore

Dr Brown

RasTa wrote: »

You have a special sticker.

Car owners driving into Dublin city are like the Americans and their guns. I can see why he country folk need them but nobody in Dublin should be driving into town anymore

If you live in the city centre you still need a car to do the shopping.

AlekSmart

WishUWereHere wrote: »

But is it up to DCC or the Gardaí to enforce the law?

I drive down the North Quays practically every day & have seen some shockers.

1) Cars, vans blatantly ignoring the law by driving up the bus lanes
2) Already witnessed a collission at that new set of traffic lights - bus driving along the bus lane when some bloke ( I assume ) got impatient and crossed the solid white line and bouncing off the bus.
3) Saw it all 2 days ago. Driving from the new lights in the middle lane towards O'Connell Bridge, I saw a taxi driving up the inside lane and at the last minute indicating that he/she wanted to turn right while at the same time a taxi in the outside lane wanting to turn left up O'Connell Street. FFS what do these taxi 'drivers' want?

Also, whoever planned a bus to stop on Ormonde Quay, and then expect it to be able to turn right onto Capel Street Bridge needs their head examined - Seen plenty of horns blaring & fist shaking as the bus tries to get right across into the RH lane.

Whatever about the cross city Luas, Bachelors Quay is a complete disaster & needs constant patrolling by Gardaí.

There is little doubt that the entire Bus Stop allocation and location procedure has been long neglected,a situation which looks like continuing for as long as we maintain our current Civic Management structure.

Virtually all of our Bus Stop Bays were provided in the 1940/50's,around the then newly lengthened,Bus dimensions of 30 Feet in length.
Additionally,in those times,passengers boarded at he rear of the bus,a situation still reflected in the placement of Bus Stop Poles at many Bus Stop Bays.

Although universally described as Bus Stops,there remains a total lack of appreciation of just how much roadspace a large passenger carrying vehicle actually requires to SAFELY cater for it's work requirements.

Currently,the relevant agencies such as Bus Operators,Local Authorities,An Garda Siochana and of late,the NTA appear unconcerned as to the requirement to operate SAFELY.

This reluctance to endorse and support SAFE Public Transport operation is perhaps best illustrated at Westmoreland Street,where after the spending of c.€400 MILLION the Public Transport Bus Driver and their Customer is now forced to operate in an environment of substantially greater risk than before.

The Planner/s who signed off on a designed situation,which feeds Cyclists,on an enhanced width Cycle Corridor on the Nearside,directly into the path of laden Buses and Coaches attempting to access a totally inappropriately located Bus Stop should at the very least have been disciplined,if not dismissed and publicly required to explain their actions.

It is,however,highly unlikely,that any of the current crop of Professional Planners will ever face any questioning as to what fed their thinking on the BXD project.

Until somebody can factor in some accountability,then we will continue to see the futility of attempting to superimpose Developed World transport solutions on an essentially Undeveloped World administrative process.......sorry,but that's about the truth of it ...:(

Spanish Eyes

Agree that Bachelor's Walk is a total disaster, and was a disaster even before the LCC and restriction for cars. It really is a total mess.

There are far too many bus stops, and that's just Dublin Bus, then there are the tour buses, long distance private buses, hop on hop off, the delivery vans. It is just chock a bloc.

Was there talk of moving some of the bus stops back up to Lower Ormond Quay at some point? Should be done pronto. I know it just pushes the problem back but the pavement at Bachelor's Walk is very narrow, and it is sometimes impossible to walk on it with the waves of people getting off buses there, not to mind crowds hanging around waiting to retrieve their luggage from the private bus operators.

Surely all the private buses could be moved down to Eden Quay. There are little things that could be done incrementally.

I use the bus on that stretch and the journey has lengthened considerably. So disappointed.

But I will give benefit of the doubt. Perhaps it was the Christmas period, coinciding with the LCC opening. But something's got to give there very soon.

Phil.x

We can only ban cars when we have 10 tram lines at a minimum covering the whole of Dublin.
We have a dreadful public transport network and it will only cause major disruption and danger to the existing transport and economy if it was brought in.

The luas network in its two line "network" is a very low capacity system and badly needs investment of billions to make these lines if we want a car free city.


http://www.urbanrail.net/eu/de/d/tram/duesseldorf-tram.htm

trellheim

Surely all the private buses could be moved down to Eden Quay. There are little things that could be done incrementally.

what if said buses want to turn over O'Connell Bridge or up O'Connell St ?

It really isnt that bad.

It is going to get worse in a couple of months when the rest of the trams come on line

Phil.x

This is what we should do with 13billion due from Apple.

All of the below.
http://www.gettingaroundgermany.info/stadt.shtml

L1011

There is no 13bn due from Apple. If we accept it pretty much every cent will be demanded in remittances by other EEA countries as the income wasn't earned here. Stop believing screeching populist politicians who promise everything for free.

Victor

Phil.x wrote: »

We can only ban cars when we have 10 tram lines at a minimum covering the whole of Dublin.
We have a dreadful public transport network and it will only cause major disruption and danger to the existing transport and economy if it was brought in.

The luas network in its two line "network" is a very low capacity system and badly needs investment of billions to make these lines if we want a car free city.


http://www.urbanrail.net/eu/de/d/tram/duesseldorf-tram.htm

https://www.transportforireland.ie/wp-content/uploads/2017/12/Dublin_Train-Tram_Map_ENGLISH.pdf We can certainly remove cars from certain key points like O'Connell Bridge and College Green.

LeinsterDub

Phil.x wrote: »

We can only ban cars when we have 10 tram lines at a minimum covering the whole of Dublin.

Some distance future Dublin

Grandson of Phil.x wrote:

We can only ban cars when we have 20 tram lines at a minimum covering the whole of Dublin.

WishUWereHere

Victor wrote: »

https://www.transportforireland.ie/wp-content/uploads/2017/12/Dublin_Train-Tram_Map_ENGLISH.pdf We can certainly remove cars from certain key points like O'Connell Bridge and College Green.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't it the case already that cars are banned from College Green? Certainly between the hours of 07h00 & 19h00.

Unless of course You are referring to taxis being in that category?

Victor

WishUWereHere wrote: »

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't it the case already that cars are banned from College Green? Certainly between the hours of 07h00 & 19h00.

Being banned doesn't stop them.

Unless of course You are referring to taxis being in that category?

That will need to be looked at. Certainly taxis that are just cruising shouldn't be allowed through.

WishUWereHere

Victor wrote: »

Being banned doesn't stop them.
That will need to be looked at. Certainly taxis that are just cruising shouldn't be allowed through.

And there is part of the problem Victor - enforcement. I see all kind of laws being broken almost every day on Bachelor's Walk. And unless the law is forced this will only get worse and worse.

humberklog

Traffic was very light this morning. Whilst sitting at Eden Quay on the bus there was a Luas sitting on the Rosey Hacket. A perfect fit, traffic north and south of the quays moving along while the tram and our bus were held at the lights.
But when are the extended trams expected to be rolled out?

Sierra Oscar

humberklog wrote: »

Traffic was very light this morning. Whilst sitting at Eden Quay on the bus there was a Luas sitting on the Rosey Hacket. A perfect fit, traffic north and south of the quays moving along while the tram and our bus were held at the lights.
But when are the extended trams expected to be rolled out?

I reckon the real test will be this day week, especially when the schools are back.

Lot's of people are still off work today.

Next week should give us a good idea how things will be on a 'normal' day as traffic is always hectic in the lead up to Christmas.

As you say though things could change again once the longer trams are brought into operation.

MartyMcFly84

Traffic is very light this week due to school and colleges being out.

I came up from Waterford to work in Tara Street Monday and Tuesday and did the trip 50mins and 40mins faster than normal due to the light traffic.

I know in my office still a good 30/40% of people are out until next week to spend time with kids. etc.

It will be back to full madness from Monday next week. If the new restrictions are not enforced we really have no idea if the system is capable of working or not.