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Seeking bank loan to cover sheriff debt

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    #32
    milkion
    Registered Users Posts: 20 ✭milkion


    The option we're considering are reducing staff to allow an increase of salary to cover a phased payment, and getting an overdraft, which we haven't had up until now, to provide extra cushion if we have a bad couple of months. Letting staff go would be absolutely terrible, but we have to ensure the business survives.

    If I was able to get a loan of around 15k somehow and take that from the sheriff's debt, that would make things a lot easier.

    fwiw the sheriff's first appearance at the door was with the trucks in tow, meaning an extra 1500 on the bill.


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    #33
    pedroeibar1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,108 ✭✭✭pedroeibar1


    I’ve scanned this thread. A few basic questions have not yet been asked or answered, so many of the comments are without value. (Mr. Awkward excluded).
    How did the limited Co. acquire the assets you are concerned about? If they were transferred into that entity from the ‘partnership’ it is possible/probable that the Sheriff could seize them. If the Ltd Co bought them with its own funds the goods are safe. You refer to the old business as a partnership. Was there a partnership agreement? If there was, you most likely are in deeper s#it than you have realized.
    Bottom line is you have no hope of an overdraft/bank loan, you really need professional advice so bring your paperwork & info to your accountant and listen.


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    #34
    milkion
    Registered Users Posts: 20 ✭milkion


    pedroeibar1 wrote: »
    Was there a partnership agreement? If there was, you most likely are in deeper s#it than you have realized.

    Can you elaborate on this please? There was a partnership agreement in setting up the Ltd company, is that what you mean?


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    #35
    pedroeibar1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,108 ✭✭✭pedroeibar1


    milkion wrote: »
    Can you elaborate on this please? There was a partnership agreement in setting up the Ltd company, is that what you mean?
    No, it's not what I mean. If you were in business with another person before the Ltd Co it was not necessarily a legal partnership unless it was set up as such. A partnership is very different to a sole trader or a Ltd. Co. and is governed by different law.

    When you set up the Ltd Co any agreement you made was probably a shareholders' agreement. (If you drew this up yourself it probably is useless, so ask your accountant about it.) You still have not answered how the assets in the Ltd Co were acquired.
    OP, you really need professional help and you should obtain that before Christmas to diminish the stress.


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    #36
    milkion
    Registered Users Posts: 20 ✭milkion


    pedroeibar1 wrote: »
    No, it's not what I mean. If you were in business with another person before the Ltd Co it was not necessarily a legal partnership unless it was set up as such. A partnership is very different to a sole trader or a Ltd. Co. and is governed by different law.

    When you set up the Ltd Co any agreement you made was probably a shareholders' agreement. (If you drew this up yourself it probably is useless, so ask your accountant about it.) You still have not answered how the assets in the Ltd Co were acquired.
    OP, you really need professional help and you should obtain that before Christmas to diminish the stress.

    Thanks, that is correct, we did draw up our partnership agreement when forming the Ltd company ourselves. Prior to that we were operating without any formal recognition of the arrangement (in essence two sole traders).

    Also, when we filed our late returns we did get a visit from revenue and they reviewed everything with our accountant and they were happy enough.

    The important physical assets for the business were acquired through and as the Ltd company. Only a couple of things of little worth would have been passed to the Ltd company.

    We have a meeting with the accountant tomorrow morning. The plan is to then contact the sheriff to arrange a payment plan to at least buy some time.

    Is it better I do this myself or we do it through the accountant? I feel that if I went and sat down with them at the sheriff's office it could allow for a better result. I have genuine reasons (not saying they're excuses) for the income tax; life situation stuff etc. Then again maybe they want to listen to that and would rather just process it with the accountant.

    Thanks again


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    #37
    pedroeibar1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,108 ✭✭✭pedroeibar1


    milkion wrote: »
    Thanks, that is correct, we did draw up our partnership agreement when forming the Ltd company ourselves. Prior to that we were operating without any formal recognition of the arrangement (in essence two sole traders).

    Also, when we filed our late returns we did get a visit from revenue and they reviewed everything with our accountant and they were happy enough.

    The important physical assets for the business were acquired through and as the Ltd company. Only a couple of things of little worth would have been passed to the Ltd company.

    We have a meeting with the accountant tomorrow morning. The plan is to then contact the sheriff to arrange a payment plan to at least buy some time.

    Is it better I do this myself or we do it through the accountant? I feel that if I went and sat down with them at the sheriff's office it could allow for a better result. I have genuine reasons (not saying they're excuses) for the income tax; life situation stuff etc. Then again maybe they want to listen to that and would rather just process it with the accountant.

    Thanks again

    OP the role of the sheriff is one of debt collector. He has no power to negotiate, he has a court order for a sum of money and he simply wants the cash or goods to that value. There is no point in meeting the Sheriff, he hears sob stories both true and false every day and just does not want to know.I wonder why he came to your place of business?



    If you can prove that the goods were acquired by the Ltd Co they cannot be touched by the Sheriff. The Ltd Co has no liability to the Revenue if their action & judgement was against you as a sole trader. Did your mate also get sued? Go meet your accountant and get him/her to discuss the options with you. Also as about the options of saving to company (if it is in trouble) and also what would happen to you in the event of a liquidation. (and when you and your mate formed the company you did NOT have a partnership agreement, it was a shareholders’ agreement. Big difference.)


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    #38
    milkion
    Registered Users Posts: 20 ✭milkion


    pedroeibar1 wrote: »
    OP the role of the sheriff is one of debt collector. He has no power to negotiate, he has a court order for a sum of money and he simply wants the cash or goods to that value. There is no point in meeting the Sheriff, he hears sob stories both true and false every day and just does not want to know.I wonder why he came to your place of business?



    If you can prove that the goods were acquired by the Ltd Co they cannot be touched by the Sheriff. The Ltd Co has no liability to the Revenue if their action & judgement was against you as a sole trader. Did your mate also get sued? Go meet your accountant and get him/her to discuss the options with you. Also as about the options of saving to company (if it is in trouble) and also what would happen to you in the event of a liquidation. (and when you and your mate formed the company you did NOT have a partnership agreement, it was a shareholders’ agreement. Big difference.)

    Thanks. He didn't come to the place of business, he came to the house. My biz partner was able to arrange a phased payment plan directly with revenue without it going to the sheriff, because he had the downpayment they were requesting available. I didn't and while we were trying to request further time etc it was just sent to the sheriff.

    My biz partner is offering to assist with a loan to help with the sheriff costs as he recognises there's part responsibility here due to the way books were handled etc. Hopefully that wouldn't raise any red flags?


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    #39
    antoinolachtnai
    Registered Users Posts: 9,793 ✭✭✭antoinolachtnai


    You need to get an accountant who is used to dealing with the revenue and the sheriff.

    Your situation is not really that bad.

    The problem is that you don't know what to do and you have no track record dealing with arrangements with the sheriff or Revenue. If the business is as strong as you say, you should be able to get this sorted out easily enough.

    It is going to cost you some accountants fees, but it's that or pay the sheriff's fees. I know which one I'd rather.

    You will find it a lot easier if you build up some sort of up-front to pay at least 20 percent.


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    #40
    _Brian
    Registered Users Posts: 18,570 ✭✭✭✭_Brian


    sysprogrammer wrote: »
    Ahh, Finally I am good for something ! I had the Sheriff call to my door years ago.

    The Sheriff is actually quite reasonable. I was out when he called to see my parents and he left his contact details and some helpful advice.

    I then asked my accountant to get in touch and agree a payment scheme.

    They (kindly) froze any further interest accruing on my debt.

    My initial fears and worries were way overblown , and perhaps the stress I gave myself..

    Suffice to say , I agreed a payment plan that was within my means (2k a month , I have no kids and business is actually good).

    And now I am out the other side, business is still good , and I often say to people that Revenue have excellent customer service.

    Can I advise you to seek a good accountant with regard to this debt , it really presents a serious professional front to Revenue, and shows you are true to your word about repayment.

    Feel free to contact me via pm , my accountant worked in Revenue for 12 years which really helped.

    The main point I am trying to make is don;t stress yourself , don't borrow further to pay this debt and please keep yourself ticking over with regard to business. you will be okay.

    I have xmas drinks this evening so a reply might be somewhat delayed.

    Take care,
    Sysprog

    You talk of “the Sherriff” as if it’s one person when in fact there are many across the country.

    I know of instances where the Sherriff and the team employed by same have been shockingly unreasonable and acted illegally because of circumstances.


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    #41
    Ginger83
    Registered Users Posts: 3,517 ✭✭✭Ginger83


    fritzelly wrote: »
    Wouldn't matter - its a luxury item

    Strange. I know this is not the UK but if you watch any of the programmes they are not allowed to touch disabled motors.


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    #42
    fritzelly
    Registered Users Posts: 17,518 ✭✭✭✭fritzelly


    Ginger83 wrote: »
    Strange. I know this is not the UK but if you watch any of the programmes they are not allowed to touch disabled motors.

    Didn't say a purposely kitted out disabled car...


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    #43
    Ginger83
    Registered Users Posts: 3,517 ✭✭✭Ginger83


    fritzelly wrote: »
    Didn't say a purposely kitted out disabled car...

    oh, so could let say a wheelchair accessible car be taken?


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    #44
    CeilingFly
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,378 ✭✭✭CeilingFly


    Once it goes to revenue sheriff, it usually stays there.

    As above, get accountant to negotiate.

    Revenue sheriff has some leeway, but not 18 months. - Maybe 6

    Banks won't give loan for tax debts.

    2 realistic options - try for a personal loan and lend it to the company.

    Try linked finance and see if they'll accept you for their platform.


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    #45
    fritzelly
    Registered Users Posts: 17,518 ✭✭✭✭fritzelly


    Ginger83 wrote: »
    fritzelly wrote: »
    Didn't say a purposely kitted out disabled car...

    oh, so could let say a wheelchair accessible car be taken?

    What's your point? The original post asked about a disabled persons car.
    What is the disability? Does it require car use as no other form of transport is acceptable. Have asthma...can be on disability


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    #46
    Ginger83
    Registered Users Posts: 3,517 ✭✭✭Ginger83


    fritzelly wrote: »
    What's your point? The original post asked about a disabled persons car.
    What is the disability? Does it require car use as no other form of transport is acceptable. Have asthma...can be on disability

    I'm disabled and need use of a disabled car, rural location. I just wondered if i was in that situation can the sheriff take my car?


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    #47
    sysprogrammer
    Registered Users Posts: 224 ✭✭sysprogrammer


    Hi OP,

    As some of the more experienced comments have mentioned, at this stage you should be getting the advice of your accountant and let him/her deal with Revenue.

    It really isn't that bad of a situation so don't let it stress you over the Christmas.

    Your accountant should have the debt frozen to stop interest accruing , and then agree a payment plan.
    Your business partner knows that they have partial responsibility, your accountant will hopefully get this debt split between the two of you and that's an instant 50% off.

    Also pay off the sheriff quickly and you'll have a lot less phones calls and visits to your home.

    Best of luck,
    SysProg


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