Phantom Bids and the bidding book

Alrite Chief

Can anyone help me please. I suspect an Estate agent is bluffing with a particular bid on a house I'm considering an offer on. Have I a right to make my bid in person after I see the bidding book? I can't find the legislation for it but some I have read various conflicting opinions on this.

Also, when I do make a bid what is the legal requirement for the bid to be accepted? A letter for mortgage approval in principal? A refundable deposit? Im half temped to call into the house but don't want to come across as a lunatic.

kala85

Nearly in the same boat as yourself

Alrite Chief

kala85 wrote: »

Nearly in the same boat as yourself

Are you the phantom bidder

kala85

Alrite Chief wrote: »

Are you the phantom bidder

Ha ha good one.

Too many phantom bidders around for one person to be.

Alrite Chief

kala85 wrote: »

Ha ha good one.

Too many phantom bidders around for one person to be.

Indeed. Hopefully some clarification can be got here.

kala85

I often think that people would be better off selling houses directly and not using an auctioneer at all.

Sometimes, I doubt that they pass on the details of bids at all.

Alkers

Where are you based?
We thought the exact same a few times when we were buying last year but in each case, if we pulled out the house went sale agreed and sold.
There isn't really a necessity for phantom bids at the moment as there is so many buyers in most areas of the market.

Alrite Chief

I completely agree. Lots of stories out there how the seller never heard of bids made. This is the kind of thing that has me temped to call in. Seems inappropriate but I think I would appreciate the call. Considering (depending on the area) 6000 hits on daft is converting to 2/3 bidders in this climate.

Alrite Chief

Simona1986 wrote: »

Where are you based?
We thought the exact same a few times when we were buying last year but in each case, if we pulled out the house went sale agreed and sold.
There isn't really a necessity for phantom bids at the moment as there is so many buyers in most areas of the market.

Yeah I fully get that some areas are attracting more interest than others. I suspect where I am its that bit slower. Properties are lasting months unless they are considerably cheap.

The not knowing is the problem. If someone could clarify the right to see the bidding book or not that would be great.

Vetch

If the bidding book contains other bidders' name and contact details, there's likely a data protection issue, unless the legislation that requires the bidding book specifically overrides data protection.

LirW

If you're looking in any urban area, there'll most likely be other bidders that are having a similar or higher budget than you do.

An EA does not have to show you bidding records. If you suspect the EA is indeed making up bids, make a complaint at the PSR, because in that case he might have to show records.

Don't forget, a few thousand in difference only work out as a few quid (literally a tenner or two) more in the EA's pocket while making up bids could ruin their reputation and their business. Most EAs don't risk losing their job over a few bobs.
In a time with lots and lots of buyers it's probably easier to accept that there is another bidder making genuine bids. When you like the house there are probably a good few other people that think the same.

Alrite Chief

LirW wrote: »

If you're looking in any urban area, there'll most likely be other bidders that are having a similar or higher budget than you do.

An EA does not have to show you bidding records. If you suspect the EA is indeed making up bids, make a complaint at the PSR, because in that case he might have to show records.

Don't forget, a few thousand in difference only work out as a few quid (literally a tenner or two) more in the EA's pocket while making up bids could ruin their reputation and their business. Most EAs don't risk losing their job over a few bobs.
In a time with lots and lots of buyers it's probably easier to accept that there is another bidder making genuine bids. When you like the house there are probably a good few other people that think the same.

Thank you for your reply. Do you know with absolute certainty they will not/do not have to show the bidding records under any legislation?

Snotty

Back in 2009, hight of the recession and no houses were being sold, rural Sligo. We looked at one particular house, it had been on the market 18 months and we made an offer, EA came back and said they had received a higher offer. Of course we called BS on it and contemplated contacting the owner, everyone etc etc.
A week later a sale agreed sign went up and it was sold a month or two later. Moral of the story, however likely, chances are its a real bid.

Alrite Chief

Snotty wrote: »

Back in 2009, hight of the recession and no houses were being sold, rural Sligo. We looked at one particular house, it had been on the market 18 months and we made an offer, EA came back and said they had received a higher offer. Of course we called BS on it and contemplated contacting the owner, everyone etc etc.
A week later a sale agreed sign went up and it was sold a month or two later. Moral of the story, however likely, chances are its a real bid.

Thanks for you're reply. The message I'm getting from a lot of people is if its the right house go for it (with a reasonable amount of caution).

Alkers

Alrite Chief wrote:

Thanks for you're reply. The message I'm getting from a lot of people is if its the right house go for it (with a reasonable amount of caution).

Try to ignore any external party (even if you're not sure their real), I'f you pay less than you're willing to, happy days. Otherwise, it's not to be.

Lolle06

Good morning,
what happens in most cases is, that there is another party that at least has already „expressed“ interest (unless there is something seriously wrong with the property), but they are not inclined to put a bid in straight away.
As soon as a bid is placed, the EA contacts all the interested parties to see if they want to place a bid as well. If they are seriously interested, they will.
Unfortunately, some people are bidding without having proper finance in place, raising the price of the property for the final bidder.
But that‘s just how it works in Ireland.
Just set yourself a limit and don’t bid over it.
As one earlier poster said: If the seller doesn’t agree to your bid, it‘s not meant to be.

Once a bid is accepted by the vendor, the buyer provides his AIP (at the latest, some EA’s want proof of finance before accepting a bid! But beware: Cross out the max amount you are approved for!) and gives a refundable deposit to the EA (usually around 5k). Surveyor and solicitor should be lined up too, at that stage.
Btw both parties can pull out of the sale until both signatures are one the exchanged contracts.

Good luck!

Interested Observer

Lolle06 wrote: »

Just set yourself a limit and don’t bid over it.

This is what it comes down to really.

I went to a FTB workshop run by a solicitor a few months ago and he said he'd never come across phantom bids and that he's firmly of the belief that no reputable EA would engage in something like that.

1641

Interested Observer wrote: »

I went to a FTB workshop run by a solicitor a few months ago and he said he'd never come across phantom bids and that he's firmly of the belief that no reputable EA would engage in something like that.

I would suspect that, insofar as they ever do happen, it is more likely to be a stooge acting on behalf of of an unscrupulous vendor.

LirW

Alrite Chief wrote: »

Thank you for your reply. Do you know with absolute certainty they will not/do not have to show the bidding records under any legislation?

Auctioneers and estate agents are legally obliged to keep records of all bids made on properties so they can be examined by the authority. If they do not keep appropriate records and are found to be guilty of improper conduct following a PSRA investigation they can be fined up to €250,000 by the PSRA or have their licence to trade revoked.

That here will probably clear up most of your questions.

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/ff-at-war-with-estate-agents-over-fake-bid-claims-36333133.html

Again if you have any doubts about the credibility of the EA you're dealing with, engage the PSRA. Problem solved.

Alrite Chief

Lolle06 wrote: »

Good morning,
what happens in most cases is, that there is another party that at least has already „expressed“ interest (unless there is something seriously wrong with the property), but they are not inclined to put a bid in straight away.
As soon as a bid is placed, the EA contacts all the interested parties to see if they want to place a bid as well. If they are seriously interested, they will.
Unfortunately, some people are bidding without having proper finance in place, raising the price of the property for the final bidder.
But that‘s just how it works in Ireland.
Just set yourself a limit and don’t bid over it.
As one earlier poster said: If the seller doesn’t agree to your bid, it‘s not meant to be.

Once a bid is accepted by the vendor, the buyer provides his AIP (at the latest, some EA’s want proof of finance before accepting a bid! But beware: Cross out the max amount you are approved for!) and gives a refundable deposit to the EA (usually around 5k). Surveyor and solicitor should be lined up too, at that stage.
Btw both parties can pull out of the sale until both signatures are one the exchanged contracts.

Good luck!

Thank you very much for your advice. Really appreciate that.

Thank you everyone else too its been really helpful.