Car deliberately ploughs through pedestrians in Melbourne, Australia

Captain Obvious

Snake Plisken wrote: »

Changes haven’t been implemented yet, and hopefully they won’t!

So you're just fearmongering. Got it.

Odhinn wrote: »

As an update
"A second man, 24, who was seen filming the incident and was found to be carrying a bag with knives in it, was also arrested yesterday afternoon.

He was last night interviewed by investigators but has now been released and is expected to be charged on summons over possession of cannabis and possessing a weapon.

Police said in a statement they did not believe the man was involved in the incident."
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-12-22/melbourne-car-crash-police-investigate-flinders-street-scene/9281044

That information was available before Snake made his post. He's just spreading fake news.

Noel82

Bob Harris wrote: »

A ferry carrying 251 people has capsized in stormy seas off the east coast of the Philippines, the coastguard says.

pitifulgod

So far, no indication that it's terrorism... Certain posters unsurprisingly believe it is.... Definitely nothing hateful about those individuals.....

Will I Am Not

pitifulgod wrote: »

So far, no indication that it's terrorism... Certain posters unsurprisingly believe it is.... Definitely nothing hateful about those individuals.....

I’m sorry but an Afghan refugee driving a vehicle at a crowd of people on purpose is going to be suspected as a terrorist incident. It may not be terrorist related but it certainly will be up for question in this day and age.
Can you not understand this?

Odhinn

pitifulgod wrote: »

So far, no indication that it's terrorism... Certain posters unsurprisingly believe it is.... Definitely nothing hateful about those individuals.....

The Australians may well be taking the right approach - if some known header decides to kill for Allah, why jump on his explanation of things, and give IS or whoever the publicity.

seenitall

Odhinn wrote: »

The Australians may well be taking the right approach - if some known header decides to kill for Allah, why jump on his explanation of things, and give IS or whoever the publicity.

That isn't called explanation, that's called motivation.

And the answer to your why - because truth.

Odhinn

seenitall wrote: »

That isn't called explanation, that's called motivation.

And the answer to your why - because truth.

....so back to justifying nut jobs and free publicity for extremists?

Sand

Odhinn wrote: »

....so back to justifying nut jobs and free publicity for extremists?

By believing authorities should manage the truth, you are back to justifying different nut jobs and offering free publicity to different extremists. Look at the mileage made from efforts to cover up crimes committed by migrants in Sweden and Germany. Alt-right/Breitbart style media lives in the space between the PR spin and the reality ordinary people see. If the authorities try or are perceived to try to manage the story, then it just feeds a corrosive lack of trust between the public and the authorities.

old_aussie

Bob Harris wrote: »

A ferry carrying 251 people has capsized in stormy seas off the east coast of the Philippines, the coastguard says.

A spokesman said a number of casualties had been reported. Huge waves are said to have caused the boat to overturn.

But hey...it's the Philippines.

Well Bob, if it's that important to you, why didn't you start your own thread?

Odhinn

Sand wrote: »

By believing authorities should manage the truth, you are back to justifying different nut jobs and offering free publicity to different extremists. Look at the mileage made from efforts to cover up crimes committed by migrants in Sweden and Germany. Alt-right/Breitbart style media lives in the space between the PR spin and the reality. If the authorities try or are perceived to try to manage the story, then it just feeds a corrosive lack of trust between the public and the authorities.

They aren't managing the truth by reporting the reality.

Sand

Odhinn wrote: »

They aren't managing the truth by reporting the reality.

So when you said

"The Australians may well be taking the right approach - if some known header decides to kill for Allah, why jump on his explanation of things, and give IS or whoever the publicity."

you didn't mean that, you instead actually meant the Australians should accept the self claimed motivations of the known header and acknowledge the IS link (if any)?

Okay, glad we agree.

old_aussie

The Fake Sheikh wrote: »

I’m sorry but an Afghan refugee driving a vehicle at a crowd of people on purpose is going to be suspected as a terrorist incident. It may not be terrorist related but it certainly will be up for question in this day and age.
Can you not understand this?

Especially when.........Melbourne incident driver tells police of 'voices and mistreatment of Muslims' as investigation continues.

https://www.sbs.com.au/news/melbourne-incident-driver-tells-police-of-voices-and-mistreatment-of-muslims-as-investigation-continues

Odhinn

Sand wrote: »

So when you said

"The Australians may well be taking the right approach - if some known header decides to kill for Allah, why jump on his explanation of things, and give IS or whoever the publicity."

you didn't mean that, you instead actually meant the Australians should accept the self claimed motivations of the known header and acknowledge the IS link (if any)?

Okay, glad we agree.

Nit picking, seeing as the person isn't in their right mind. If there was an actual IS link, that would be a different matter.

King George VI

I knew what I was doing and what this thread would descend into when I started it and you lads didn't disappoint. Not even a bit.

JackTaylorFan

King George VI wrote: »

I knew what I was doing and what this thread would descend into when I started it and you lads didn't disappoint. Not even a bit.

Wow! If this is seriously how you get your jollies... Seek therapy

King George VI

JackTaylorFan wrote: »

Wow! If this is seriously how you get your jollies... Seek therapy

Sometimes watching people go insane on the internet can be great fun.

Will I Am Not

old_aussie wrote: »

Especially when.........Melbourne incident driver tells police of 'voices and mistreatment of Muslims' as investigation continues.

https://www.sbs.com.au/news/melbourne-incident-driver-tells-police-of-voices-and-mistreatment-of-muslims-as-investigation-continues

I don’t understand
They say he told them he did it because of the mistreatment of Muslims but they have found no terror related link?

JJayoo

King George VI wrote: »

Sometimes watching people go insane on the internet can be great fun.

You must have a really sh1t life

Widdershins

Police seem to be well brainwashed.

old_aussie

The family member surely would have known that Saeed Noori was Unlicenced.

The SUV had not been reported stolen.

Saeed Noori, a 32-year-old Australian citizen of Afghan descent, is believed to have been unlicensed when he allegedly drove a relative's car into the crowded intersection on Thursday night, leaving 19 other people injured.

http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/melbourne-cbd-attack-flinders-street-driver-saeed-noori-convicted-of-unlicensed-driving-20171221-h090w2.html

old_aussie

Widdershins wrote: »

Police seem to be well brainwashed.

Can you offer supporting fact or argument to clarify your statement?

dr.fuzzenstein

511 wrote: »

How come assholes don't use Buddhism or Hinduism to be assholes? Perhaps some do but there seems to be a shedload more assholes per capita in the Islamic faith than other religions, seeing as it's Muslims carrying out these attacks.

OK, your argument is that Islm = Violence, everything else, fine and dandy.
Got it, no need to argue with you here. Can I see some evidence of that please?

Racist is easier to write if you cannot distinguish the difference between race and religion and anyone who cannot distinguish between the two is worthy of being called stupid.

Yeah, but as soon as osters saw a picture of the attacker everyone immediately jumped to the conclusion "Oh yeah, brown skin, beard, certain appearacne, Muslim, terrorist".
I'm afraid me old buckaroo that is racist meladdio.

Terrence Kelly was an ethnic Irishman who was deeply Catholic but converted to Islamic fundamentalism. Did Terry Kelly change his race when he converted to Islam? By accusing posters on here of racism, you're also admitting that it's possible for someone to change their race by converting to a new religion. Just think about how ridiculously stupid that sounds for a moment.

But is Islam to blame for him being a racist, violent asshole or was he using Islam as an excuse to murder people?
Exactly my point.

Islam was always the problem. It wasn't founded with good intentions. ISIS aren't much different from the first Muslims, who wnet around slaughtering and enslaving people in Arabia. If the people are the problem, then where are all of the Buddhists and Hindu militants trying to create their own Caliphate (Islamic state)? Why is it always Muslims? It's because the Abrahamic faiths instruct their followers to create these theocracies.

But who created Islam? People. Religion is not something that was handed down to us by some sky fairy, people invented it, maybe with good intentions, but it has causes untold bloodshed on the world.

Which band of murdering terrorists?

IRA, UVF, RAF (Red Army faction), pick one. Plenty of sadistic bastards in those organisations who jack off at the thought of killing and maiming.
People have always been violent. You simply do not get to blame the system or a particular group of people, that is the point. Human beings can be evil, violent, nasty little sh*ts.

Ironically, you haven't provided any evidence that religions isn't the problem. That a lazy argument.

Who created religion?
People.
It wasn't handed to us by some aliens. It doesn't force people to be violent through mind control.
It is an institution created by people and abused by people and used as an excuse to murder each other.

Unless you can somehow prove that it is indeed alien mind control, otherwise the answer remains Homo Sapiens, a nasty, vicious, violent species where everyone is out to control the other.

weldoninhio

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

But who created Islam? People. Religion is not something that was handed down to us by some sky fairy, people invented it, maybe with good intentions, but it has causes untold bloodshed on the world.

I take it you haven't read up on Mohammed, the paedophile warlord, then.

dr.fuzzenstein

weldoninhio wrote: »

I take it you haven't read up on Mohammed, the paedophile warlord, then.

Am I now required to hate my Turkish, Moroccon and Tunisian friends?
After all, they are Muslims, so Muslims = Terrorists, therefore they must be Jihadis
As a German I am required to be a Nazi und as an Irishman (presumably) you must be an IRA terrorist
So we have no choice in the matter, our respective systems and heritage require us to be violent, it's not like we can decide, no?

weldoninhio

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

Am I now required to hate my Turkish, Moroccon and Tunisian friends?
After all, they are Muslims, so Muslims = Terrorists, therefore they must be Jihadis
As a German I am required to be a Nazi und as an Irishman (presumably) you must be an IRA terrorist
So we have no choice in the matter, our respective systems and heritage require us to be violent, it's not like we can decide, no?

You tried to claim "people invented it, maybe with good intentions". I merely pointed out who invented it. He did not have good intentions, unless you are quite twisted.

dr.fuzzenstein

I would just like to add to my points so far.
The basis of my argument is that correlation ≠causation.
I do agree that there do seem to be more violent Muslims than Bhuddhists, but:

https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2017/may/08/buddhist-extremists-anti-muslim-mandalay-ma-ba-tha

You cannot argue that there aren't atrocities carried out by extremeist Bhuddist.

Also, people have been bashing each others skulls since the dawn of time.

Religion, does it turn people violent or do violent people look for it, so they have an excuse to carry out their violent urges? I do believe so.

And finally, people seem to worry so much about those nasty terrorists. Well, in the US non religios, "standard" murders outweight terrorist atrocities at a rate of OVER 1000 to 1.
So instead of dark skinned guys with whispy beards and wearing a Kaftan, you should really be worried about that Yank next to you. He could rip out his gun and start shooting everything around hium any second now. Because statistically he is 1000 times more likely to do so.

http://edition.cnn.com/2016/10/03/us/terrorism-gun-violence/index.html

That figure would look different for Europe, since gun violence is less of a factor here.

It's alway easy to say it's the fault of Nazism, terrorism, religion, greed, lust for power and whatever else you fancy, but if human beings were inherently benign and peaceful, would we use every excuse in te book to murder each other and later say "it HAD to be done!"
This will not change unless we evolve into a more benign species, in the meantime the killing will continue.

weldoninhio wrote: »

You tried to claim "people invented it, maybe with good intentions". I merely pointed out who invented it. He did not have good intentions, unless you are quite twisted.

I don't know, but he still is people
All the evil in the world doesn't come from God or Aliens, we are quite capable of that ourselves.

BillyBobBS

So everything points to this being a terror attack from the usual suspects but we are being told it's not a terror attack?

jmayo

Ulysses Gaze wrote: »

You forgot Peanut allergies

Ah fook it, I forgot that one.
It's getting harder to keep track of all the deflection tactics these days.

_Dara_ wrote: »

The police don’t seem to think there’s any religious extremist slant and, in my experience, they tend to be fairly forthright if they think there’s a link. There’s no conspiracy, folks.

Why do you think he can’t have a common-or-garden mental illness, some of which make people violent?

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

To simply blame Muslims is lazy, racist and stupid.

Ah ah repeat after me,
ISLAM IS NOT A RACE.
It is a belief system and ideology.

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

I am amazed at the amount of times my Muslim friends (Moroccan, Tunisian, Turkish and forgotten where my African work colleague is from) have completely failed to brutally Jihad me and instead have been extremely nice and friendly people.
No one at the Kebab house has ever attacked me with their huge knives, they've only ever prepared food with them.

Maybe some of them see as a useful idiot making excuses for other hard line fundamentalist muslims.
BTW have a chat to them about things like homosexuality, women's rights, etc and I bet you any amount not all of them will be quite as nice as you think.

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

The problem is the other way round, Islam is not turning people violent, but violent, sadistic assholes who need some cowardly "cause" to murder people are hiding behind religion in order to engage in their rape and murder fantasies. ...

That would be all well and good but for the litany of islamic preachers and religious leaders that have come out and preached death and hatred.
Somehow I bet you and others would be like flies on a cowpat if an incident occurred of a catholic priest coming out telling their worshipers to slaughter people in the name of god, violently attack gays or even to slap women around.
Yet we have had numerous very public incidents of the same from islamic preachers to their flocks.

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

I'm afraid you don't just get to lazily point at a group of people or belief system. The problem is people. As a race we have a high degree of violent, sadistic, murdering assholes who are looking for an excuse.
Don't like it? Tough sh*t. That's the truth.
Humans suck, get used to it.

Funny though how many of the violent, sadistic, murdering, misogynistic assholes belong to one faith in particular, actually one sect of that faith. :rolleyes:

How many times now has mental illness and drug use being used as excuse for attackers of this type.

But look at the commonality of these attackers.

They are different races and from many different racial backgrounds.
It isn't country of birth as a lot are born and raised in the Western world.
Some are refugees and migrants, some are not.
Some are reasonably well educated, some are not.
It isn't class as some are from rather well to do backgrounds.
Some have criminal backgrounds and prison records, some don't.
Some have history of mental illness, some don't.
It isn't actual the religion they were brought up in as some were of different religions in their childhood.

Now lets look at common themes
The vast majority are males and young to middle age.
Every single one of them has an islamic connection at time of attack.

But still some will claim the variables above are the cause and not the glaring fooking point listed last.

Oh and just in case the usual shytology is flung back.
No one is saying all muslims are terrorists or loony attackers, but you will find 90 something percent of these attacks (not counting la la gun toting USA in here for obvious reasons) are connected to islam.

Professor Moriarty

Just an idle thought and very happy to have my figures corrected upwards or downwards. There are 1,500,000,000 Muslims in the world. In the past twenty years, erring on the high side and ignoring mental health factors, let's say that approximately 300 Muslims have perpetrated terrorist atrocities in Western countries.

So 1/5000000, or one in five million or 0.00002% of Muslims have committed atrocities in Western Countries.

weldoninhio

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

Just an idle thought and very happy to have my figures corrected upwards or downwards. There are 1,500,000,000 Muslims in the world. In the past twenty years, erring on the high side and ignoring mental health factors, let's say that approximately 300 Muslims have perpetrated terrorist atrocities in Western countries.

So 1/5000000, or one in five million or 0.00002% of Muslims have committed atrocities in Western Countries.

How many of the 1,500,000,000 have access to the Western world?

How many have committed atrocities in the Middle East i.e. how many soldiers/supporters have Al Queda, Al Shabaab, IS, The Armed Islamic Group, Boko Haram, The Taliban, Islamic Jihad Union, Jamaat-ul-Mujahideen Bangladesh, Ansar Bangla, Harkat-ul-Jihad-al-Islami, Lashkar-e-Taiba, Jaish-e-Mohammed, Al Badr & Hizbul Mujahideen, The Abu Sayyaf Group, Muslim Brotherhood got?

I'm gonna guess that your 1/5,000,000 number will be a lot smaller.

Professor Moriarty

weldoninhio wrote: »

How many of the 1,500,000,000 have access to the Western world?

How many have committed atrocities in the Middle East i.e. how many soldiers/supporters have Al Queda, Al Shabaab, IS, The Armed Islamic Group, Boko Haram, The Taliban, Islamic Jihad Union, Jamaat-ul-Mujahideen Bangladesh, Ansar Bangla, Harkat-ul-Jihad-al-Islami, Lashkar-e-Taiba, Jaish-e-Mohammed, Al Badr & Hizbul Mujahideen, The Abu Sayyaf Group, Muslim Brotherhood got?

I'm gonna guess that your 1/5,000,000 number will be a lot smaller.

Well, my impression was that the discussion was focussing on 'Muslim terrorism' in Western countries.

But if we expand the discussion to include the Middle East and Asia, then how many people from Western countries have slaughtered how many Muslims in the past 20 years?

dr.fuzzenstein

weldoninhio wrote: »

How many of the 1,500,000,000 have access to the Western world?

How many have committed atrocities in the Middle East i.e. how many soldiers/supporters have Al Queda, Al Shabaab, IS, The Armed Islamic Group, Boko Haram, The Taliban, Islamic Jihad Union, Jamaat-ul-Mujahideen Bangladesh, Ansar Bangla, Harkat-ul-Jihad-al-Islami, Lashkar-e-Taiba, Jaish-e-Mohammed, Al Badr & Hizbul Mujahideen, The Abu Sayyaf Group, Muslim Brotherhood got?

I'm gonna guess that your 1/5,000,000 number will be a lot smaller.

So your solution is what?

Captain Obvious

BillyBobBS wrote: »

So everything points to this being a terror attack from the usual suspects but we are being told it's not a terror attack?

By everything do you mean just his religion or have there been further updates from the police?

ForestFire

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

Well, my impression was that the discussion was focussing on 'Muslim terrorism' in Western countries.

But if we expand the discussion to include the Middle East and Asia, then how many people from Western countries have slaughtered how many Muslims in the past 20 years?

If that was your intention why did you start your sentance with their are x Muslims in the world?

Then you ask why others are expanding, when in fact you it was you that done it.

Professor Moriarty

ForestFire wrote: »

If that was your intention why did you start your sentance with their are x Muslims in the world?

Then you ask why others are expanding, when in fact you it was you that done it.

Because I thought being Muslim was the problem according to some posters. Thought that would be obvious. So, 1500000000 Muslims and perhaps 300 'terrorists' who have committed atrocities in Western countries.

deaddonkey15

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

Because I thought being Muslim was the problem according to some posters. Thought that would be obvious. So, 1500000000 Muslims and perhaps 300 'terrorists' who have committed atrocities in Western countries.

Where are you getting 300 from?

Terrorists are the just the tip of the iceberg of the poison that is the islamic faith.

Professor Moriarty

deaddonkey15 wrote: »

Where are you getting 300 from?

Terrorists are the just the tip of the iceberg of the poison that is the islamic faith.

See my previous posts.

Will I Am Not

There are over 20,000 lions in the world but only like 4 or 5 of them have eaten a human. Lions are grand. Pet them.

Professor Moriarty

The Fake Sheikh wrote: »

There are over 20,000 lions in the world but only like 4 or 5 of them have eaten a human. Lions are grand. Pet them.

I'd suggest you shouldn't do that. All lions are dangerous wild beasts. You could get badly hurt.

Will I Am Not

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

I'd suggest you shouldn't do that. All lions are dangerous wild beasts. You could get badly hurt.

I’ve seen people hugging lions on TV.
#notalllions

Will I Am Not

Moderate lions.

ForestFire

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

Because I thought being Muslim was the problem according to some posters. Thought that would be obvious. So, 1500000000 Muslims and perhaps 300 'terrorists' who have committed atrocities in Western countries.

You used a worlwide population figure for muslims but only western figures for an occurance, to come up with a percentage value.

Can you not see the issue with that?

That's like me claiming :-

Human population is 7.6 billion.
Cardiovascular disease deaths per year in Ireland is 10k

Chances of dying due to heart disease 0.000013.%

Professor Moriarty

ForestFire wrote: »

You used a worlwide population figure for muslims but only western figures for an occurance, to come up with a percentage value.

Can you not see the issue with that?

That's like me claiming :-

Human population is 7.6 billion.
Cardiovascular disease deaths per year in Ireland is 10k

Chances of dying due to heart disease 0.000013.%

Not at all. Unless you have data such as...

Country of origin of each 'terrorist'.
Which branch of Islam.
The depth of their faith and religious practice.
And so on.

...all we can say about Muslim 'terrorism' in Western countries is:

1500000000 Muslims and probably less than 300 perpetrators.

Odhinn

The Fake Sheikh wrote: »

Moderate lions.

Lion to the fore in the picture is on twitter with allegations of inappropriate contact against the guy in the middle.

deaddonkey15

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

See my previous posts.

I did, and you seemed to just pluck the number 300 out of your ar*e.

Professor Moriarty

deaddonkey15 wrote: »

I did, and you seemed to just pluck the number 300 out of your ar*e.

Do you have an alternative point of view or is that the extent of your ability?

ForestFire

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

Do you have an alternative point of view or is that the extent of your ability?

Well at least he is not making up data and statistics like some people.

You admit you don't have the data but quite happily still make it all up to suit your point of view. (Im not even saying you wrong but please dont pratronise us with fake data 'professor')

Professor Moriarty

ForestFire wrote: »

Well at least he is not making up data and statistics like some people.

You admit you don't have the data but quite happily still make it all up to suit your point of view. (Im not even saying you wrong but please dont pratronise us with fake data 'professor')

Sure. But my theory remains unchallenged by any facts. Do you have any facts?

ForestFire

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

Sure. But my theory remains unchallenged by any facts. Do you have any facts?

So your allowed a theory and the rest of us need facts .... is that how you would like this to work

How about you present some facts

Professor Moriarty

ForestFire wrote: »

So your allowed a theory and the rest of us need facts .... is that how you would like this to work

How about you present some facts

I've presented my theory. Nobody has challenged it with any facts. Including yourself. So what's your theory?