Zero Tolerance State

HONKEY TONK

Should Ireland become a zero tolerance state in relation to criminal offenses?

Guilty = Fine or Prison run on Maximum penilities

No ifs/buts or sob stories.

Revenue collects fines / Use tax to build prisons.

Odhinn

HONKEY TONK wrote: »

Should Ireland become a zero tolerance state in relation to criminal offenses?

Guilty = Fine or Prison run on Maximum penilities

No ifs/buts or sob stories.

Revenue collects fines / Use tax to build prisons.

Doesn't work, so whats the point?

PopePalpatine

Odhinn wrote: »

Doesn't work, so whats the point?

"Virtue signalling", but for the Right.

Odhinn

PopePalpatine wrote: »

"Virtue signalling", but for the Right.

"righteous heiling"?

evolving_doors

Hohoho merry Christm...hey wait....WTF!!
Who the heck is thinking about more prisons and higher taxes at this time?

SEPT 23 1989

We could also build a mega tower block for all the homeless to live in which would be easier to police

Hector Bellend

Crack one off.

HONKEY TONK

evolving_doors wrote: »

Hohoho merry Christm...hey wait....WTF!!
Who the heck is thinking about more prisons and higher taxes at this time?

people like this

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/family-helped-tackle-criminal-who-had-travelled-from-dublin-to-cork-to-carry-out-burglary-spree-36430405.html

Detectives believe the man travelled from Dublin to west Cork specifically for the purpose of conducting a series of raids on homes with cash and gifts collected for the festive season being the primary target.

mad muffin

For serious crimes, yes.

pitifulgod

HONKEY TONK wrote: »

Should Ireland become a zero tolerance state in relation to criminal offenses?

Guilty = Fine or Prison run on Maximum penilities

No ifs/buts or sob stories.

Revenue collects fines / Use tax to build prisons.

The US has the most overpopulated prison system in the globe. Crime rates tend to be substantially higher than rest of Western World. So build a ridiculously expensive prison system, likely increase the crime rate...

server down

Odhinn wrote: »

Doesn't work, so whats the point?

I don’t get the idea that higher prison sentences can’t work. That would mean that no prison sentence works.

OnDraught

We would end up with a tiny working population. Nobody to run our banks, drive taxis, say mass etc. The country would collapse.

HONKEY TONK

pitifulgod wrote: »

The US has the most overpopulated prison system in the globe. Crime rates tend to be substantially higher than rest of Western World. So build a ridiculously expensive prison system, likely increase the crime rate...

So not sending criminals to prison reduces crime rate?

Odhinn

server down wrote: »

I don’t get the idea that higher prison sentences can’t work. That would mean that no prison sentence works.

It's not an idea, its a fact. All stick doesn't work. Thats why people refer to the scandanavian model - reform or tough sentence.

server down

pitifulgod wrote: »

The US has the most overpopulated prison system in the globe. Crime rates tend to be substantially higher than rest of Western World. So build a ridiculously expensive prison system, likely increase the crime rate...

Actually crime has fallen there in the last generation.

and correlation is not causation. The US may have a high incarceration but that doesn’t mean that causes crime.

Fr_Dougal

We should bring back the death penalty. 🤯

El_Duderino 09

mad muffin wrote: »

For serious crimes, yes.

By ‘serious crimes’ I presume you mean crimes that you would never be likely to commit. E.g. you don’t do drugs, get in or fights burgle houses do throw the book at those crimes. But not for speeding, failing to pay appropriate tax or any other crime you* could commit.

The royal you. In other words you support this type of justice system for other people.

El_Duderino 09

mad muffin wrote: »

For serious crimes, yes.

By ‘serious crimes’ I presume you mean crimes that you would never be likely to commit. E.g. you don’t do drugs, get in or fights burgle houses do throw the book at those crimes. But not for speeding, failing to pay appropriate tax or any other crime you* could commit.

The royal you. In other words you support this type of justice system for other people.

server down

Odhinn wrote: »

It's not an idea, its a fact. All stick doesn't work. Thats why people refer to the scandanavian model - reform or tough sentence.

Is the solution to higher crime rates lower sentences then? And clearly Ireland is failing to rehabilitate as well, or rather the criminals are.

I don’t mind the idea that you rehabilitate or get a higher sentence since that’s a lot more realistic than a slap on the wrist after 160 convictions. Chance would be a fine thing.

That needs more prisons though.

server down

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

By ‘serious crimes’ I presume you mean crimes that you would never be likely to commit. E.g. you don’t do drugs, get in or fights burgle houses do throw the book at those crimes. But not for speeding, failing to pay appropriate tax or any other crime you* could commit.

The royal you. In other words you support this type of justice system for other people.

Any chance you’d argue against points people actually make?

pitifulgod

HONKEY TONK wrote: »

So not sending criminals to prison reduces crime rate?

Aiming to reform criminals seems to be one of the best routes. Putting people in prison and actually attempting reform via it is fine. However there are plenty of crimes where people are imprisoned where they simply shouldn't be and it will lead them further into criminality. Eg minor drug offences. This is the route the likes of Norway follows.

In addition to this, counteracting the causative factors for crimes is proper crime prevention. This includes reducing poverty and increasing quality of education to point where you don't end up with educationally deprived areas. Loads more but zero tolerance policies aren't a solution and a pretty expensive road to go down.

server down

pitifulgod wrote: »

Aiming to reform criminals seems to be one of the best routes. Putting people in prison and actually attempting reform via it is fine. However there are plenty of crimes where people are imprisoned where they simply shouldn't be and it will lead them further into criminality. Eg minor drug offences. This is the route the likes of Norway follows.

In addition to this, counteracting the causative factors for crimes is proper crime prevention. This includes reducing poverty and increasing quality of education to point where you don't end up with educationally deprived areas. Loads more but zero tolerance policies aren't a solution and a pretty expensive road to go down.

We have a very low incarceration rate. We also have very high transfers to social welfare (which I agree with).

I doubt that poverty causes high level criminality anyway - many criminals in criminal enterprises earn multiples of what ordinary people earn.

El_Duderino 09

server down wrote: »

Any chance you’d argue against points people actually make?

I think people who argue for zero tolerance are advocating for zero tolerance for crimes other people commit. Simple as that

ToddyDoody

HONKEY TONK wrote: »

Should Ireland become a zero tolerance state in relation to criminal offenses?

Guilty = Fine or Prison run on Maximum penilities

No ifs/buts or sob stories.

Revenue collects fines / Use tax to build prisons.

Sounds efficient. As though cases could be tried in 20 minutes flat.

Hotblack Desiato

Take a couple of hundred people off the streets and the national crime rate would plummet. There are people out there committing hundreds of serious crimes per year, getting convicted for a fraction of them and still getting slap on wrist sentences, large chunks of it suspended, etc. after racking up dozens or even hundreds of convictions. These guys don't give a damn and why should they?

Repeat offenders have been given plenty of chances by the system already, so take the kid gloves off. No bail if you have a record. No portion of your sentence to be suspended if you have been convicted of a similar offence before. NO concurrent sentencing for anyone - you serve once sentence at a time. Cut remission - half is far too much. You still need an incentive for crims to cooperate in prision, so still allow some remission but on electronic tag, curfew, cooperation with probation services and getting a JOB even if it's digging holes in the ground at state expense and filling them back in again.

We'll need to build a couple more prisons / remand centres, but it's totally worth it. NB this is for repeat offenders / career criminals only. There comes a point where rehabilitation is no longer possible and the need to protect the public should come first.

Odhinn

server down wrote: »

Is the solution to higher crime rates lower sentences then? And clearly Ireland is failing to rehabilitate as well, or rather the criminals are.

I don’t mind the idea that you rehabilitate or get a higher sentence since that’s a lot more realistic than a slap on the wrist after 160 convictions. Chance would be a fine thing.

That needs more prisons though.

The norwegian model - rehabilitate or get the stick. It works.

TheQuietFella

HONKEY TONK wrote: »

Should Ireland become a zero tolerance state in relation to criminal offenses?

Guilty = Fine or Prison run on Maximum penilities

No ifs/buts or sob stories.

Revenue collects fines / Use tax to build prisons.

Couldn't afford it! Any revenue collected would be re-directed towards our foreign debt under instruction from our masters in Europe!

corner of hells

ToddyDoody wrote: »

HONKEY TONK wrote: »

Should Ireland become a zero tolerance state in relation to criminal offenses?

Guilty = Fine or Prison run on Maximum penilities

No ifs/buts or sob stories.

Revenue collects fines / Use tax to build prisons.

Sounds efficient. As though cases could be tried in 20 minutes flat.

They could , in fact we could do mass trials.
Maybe even theme them , some days we could have Stalin ones , others could Roman style.

falinn merking

Zero tolerance is the way to go anybody try to squeeze out some sneaky flatulence should face the full wrath of the law.

server down

Odhinn wrote: »

The norwegian model - rehabilitate or get the stick. It works.

As I said, in Ireland that would mean more prisons.

djPSB

HONKEY TONK wrote: »

Should Ireland become a zero tolerance state in relation to criminal offenses?

Guilty = Fine or Prison run on Maximum penilities

No ifs/buts or sob stories.

Revenue collects fines / Use tax to build prisons.

Death penalty and corporal punishment should be brought back. Give the paedos etc. what they deserve.