Zero Tolerance State

OnDraught

OnDraught wrote: »

We would end up with a tiny working population. Nobody to run our banks, drive taxis, say mass etc. The country would collapse.

Yeah, because the guys with 66 convictions work in the banks :rolleyes:

NollagShona

HONKEY TONK wrote: »

Should Ireland become a zero tolerance state in relation to criminal offenses?

Guilty = Fine or Prison run on Maximum penilities

No ifs/buts or sob stories.

Revenue collects fines / Use tax to build prisons.

Lucinda, it didnt work before, it won't now. Renua your thinking.

Blazer

paedos - bullet
murderers - bullet
armed robbery- bullets to both kneecaps
hit and run- bullets to elbows
drink driving- car crushed
driving no tax or insurance -car crushed
gbh - gbh
theft- jail
blue collar crime - jail

anyone convicted of any crime to be rendered sterile so as not to propagate more scum

Donald Trump

Norwegian models FTW

There was a rumoured attempted pussy grabbing at that contest!

pitifulgod

pitifulgod wrote: »

The US has the most overpopulated prison system in the globe. Crime rates tend to be substantially higher than rest of Western World. So build a ridiculously expensive prison system, likely increase the crime rate...

Running a prison is a business plan in the US, a full prison is good for the GDP figures.
Put people into jail it's good for the economy.

Invent crimes if there are vacancies.

Blazer

Blazer wrote: »

paedos - bullet
murderers - bullet
armed robbery- bullets to both kneecaps
hit and run- bullets to elbows
drink driving- car crushed
driving no tax or insurance -car crushed
gbh - gbh
theft- jail
blue collar crime - jail

anyone convicted of any crime to be rendered sterile so as not to propagate more scum

what the hell is blue collar crime???
as for crushing cars, what a waste(unless it's a banger) confiscate & sell it

shaunr68

Blazer wrote: »

paedos - bullet
murderers - bullet
armed robbery- bullets to both kneecaps
hit and run- bullets to elbows
drink driving- car crushed
driving no tax or insurance -car crushed
gbh - gbh
theft- jail
blue collar crime - jail

anyone convicted of any crime to be rendered sterile so as not to propagate more scum

Sorry to interrupt you Mr Trump but may I remind you that you have an important meeting at Doonbeg in the morning to hand over some bribe money.

Donald Trump

shaunr68 wrote: »

Sorry to interrupt you Mr Trump but may I remind you that you have an important meeting at Doonbeg in the morning to hand over some bribe money.

Oi. That fucker is an impostor

It's really amusing in a way. That just because something has been tried/done by another culture, it can't ever be applied to here. The US is always raised to the pedestal of failed responses to crime (Capital punishment, harsher sentencing etc) in objection to any suggestion of harsher sentencing of criminals. I've raised the point that the US has a very different culture than Ireland... but all I seem to get back is that we're kinda similar.

Now, I'm not suggesting CP, because it's unrealistic to expect that form of punishment entering Europe. Not going to happen. So, no point ranting about it.

Harsher sentencing simply means longer terms of incarceration without any endgame in sight. Lock people up and forget about them. Which doesn't work because each prisoner costs so damn much. Simply locking people away for longer periods is not the answer. It's not a deterrent and costs far too much in any case.

I wonder... has there been any studies/research asking reformed/rehabilitated criminals what measures would be most effective?

El_Duderino 09

Deleted User wrote: »

I wonder... has there been any studies/research asking reformed/rehabilitated criminals what measures would be most effective?

As far as I know the research correlates education with reduced likelihood of recidivism. Some people can’t be reformed. Lots of people in prison have learning difficulties and mental health issues, impulse control and forward planning problems and bad eggs (all the things that increase the chances of committing crimes and being incarcerated in the first place) so they’re a problematic sample.

markodaly

How about we first stop granting bail to people with dozens of convictions? Most of the burglaries are committed by people out on bail. Harsher sentences for a start would make people think twice. Locking people up does work despite what the utopians would have you think.

markodaly

markodaly wrote: »

How about we first stop granting bail to people with dozens of convictions? Most of the burglaries are committed by people out on bail. Harsher sentences for a start would make people think twice. Locking people up does work despite what the utopians would have you think.

Locking up serial offenders works because they can't re-offend while inside, but in reality, that just hides the problem.

in the past, national service was a good way to keep the potential culprits occupied, they're unlikely to offend while on a 50km route march with full kit.

Decriminalising some of the milder drugs would remove an entire layer of gangland crime from the system.

Blazer

[Deleted User] wrote: »

what the hell is blue collar crime???
as for crushing cars, what a waste(unless it's a banger) confiscate & sell it

Meant white collar crime.
Also you know the beauracy involved with confiscated and selling cars and the level of corruption in this country? Crush em.

I’m also adding to the list assholes who bring trolleys to the 12 items or less kiosk.
And the sentence is to be hit hard across the back within each extra item.
And then with the trolley.

Blazer

Blazer wrote: »

Meant white collar crime.
Also you know the beauracy involved with confiscated and selling cars and the level of corruption in this country? Crush em.

I’m also adding to the list assholes who bring trolleys to the 12 items or less kiosk.
And the sentence is to be hit hard across the back within each extra item.
And then with the trolley.

The easy fix is for the store to add a surcharge of something like 50 cents per item over the 12, they'll soon stop that malarkey.

Gbear

PopePalpatine wrote: »

"Virtue signalling", but for the Right.

Virtue Signalling is not new and it has never been the sole province of the left.
Anyone who grew up in Catholic Ireland should be fully aware of the practice.
Conceitedness is as old as humanity.



I can't help but feel that we're well behind what we could acheive with our justice system.

Technology is such that it should be trivial to know precisely what people are doing at all times so there should be no issue with using such methods in probation to keep people from reoffending and also keep non-violent criminals out of prison.

I think about half of our prison population is made up of non-violent criminals.
Other than for sheer bloody-mindedness and archaic notions of vengeance, there's seldom any benefit to putting most of them in prison.

Drug offences should not be offences, as the world is slowly beginning to realise.
Crimes against the state, such as tax evasion and the likes, are born of a feudal notion about the relationship between state and citizenship.
Both they and other offences relating to the theft and destuction of property and wealth, should be entirely handled through financial restitution and community service, whether it's robbing a chocolate bar, a ferrari, embezzling a billion Euro or whatever.

Keeping people locked in a cage should be reserved for those who pose serious risk to their fellow citizens if allowed to be free and there should not be sentences given - there should be an ongoing assessement of threat that should indicate whether or not the person is allowed to reenter society.
If they're not deemed to be a threat anymore, then great, job done. If they are, there should be no arbitrary limit on how long they can be detained.

There's a very clear failing in our justice system in how we deal with serious and repeat crime but building and filling loads of jails won't solve the issue.

Someone who's committed dozens of crimes should be required to be tracked, can't leave the country, can't associate with certain people, must hold down a legitimate job and so on, and it should be incredibly easy to keep them to that regime. It needn't require massive man-power either. A first year computer science student could build a system to automate it, although no doubt the illiterate bureaucrats in charge would find a way to get conned out of hundreds of millions of Euro for a system that doesn't work.

splinter65

Odhinn wrote: »

It's not an idea, its a fact. All stick doesn't work. Thats why people refer to the scandanavian model - reform or tough sentence.

Ah but in Scandinavia the citizens pay a lot of taxes to facilitate things like reforming criminals (a very expensive option) .
Irish people don’t want to pay for the water that comes out of the taps so they’re unlikely to pay for rehabilitating serial burglars.

Peatys

pitifulgod wrote: »

The US has the most overpopulated prison system in the globe. Crime rates tend to be substantially higher than rest of Western World. So build a ridiculously expensive prison system, likely increase the crime rate...

It's not the prisons fault that country is in shíte.

Odhinn

splinter65 wrote: »

Ah but in Scandinavia the citizens pay a lot of taxes to facilitate things like reforming criminals (a very expensive option) .
Irish people don’t want to pay for the water that comes out of the taps so they’re unlikely to pay for rehabilitating serial burglars.

I've heard it said that its easier to get blood from a stone than money for prison reform, which traps us in the usual cycle.

Blazer

Deleted User wrote: »

The easy fix is for the store to add a surcharge of something like 50 cents per item over the 12, they'll soon stop that malarkey.

where's the fun in that?

splinter65

Odhinn wrote: »

I've heard it said that its easier to get blood from a stone than money for prison reform, which traps us in the usual cycle.

Scandinavia is referenced as every thing that is superior to any equivalent here in these islands.
But Scandinavians accept that you cannot have superior public services (including rebooting citizens who break the law) without giving back to the government large chunks of your hard earned wages.
Will never happen here.

Billy86

Blazer wrote: »

Meant white collar crime.
Also you know the beauracy involved with confiscated and selling cars and the level of corruption in this country? Crush em.

I’m also adding to the list assholes who bring trolleys to the 12 items or less kiosk.
And the sentence is to be hit hard across the back within each extra item.
And then with the trolley.

Your insurance run out on Dec 28th at 11:59pm meaning the new policy would begin at 00:01 on Dec 29th, so you tell the insurance person at Chill, the AA or wherever that it is due to run out on the 29th. The person on the other end misinterprets this as it running out at 11:59pm on Dec 29th, meaning your insurance would need to start at Dec 30th at 00:01. You get stopped at a checkpoint, Gardai notice you have no insurance... you're saying this person should have their car crushed?

I used to work in insurance, the above happens quite regularly.

Billy86

Deleted User wrote: »

The easy fix is for the store to add a surcharge of something like 50 cents per item over the 12, they'll soon stop that malarkey.

Nah, better to have the trolley crushed and all the contents inside it set on fire while still in the queue. Sends a real message, and much more efficient! :pac:

markodaly

splinter65 wrote: »

Ah but in Scandinavia the citizens pay a lot of taxes to facilitate things like reforming criminals (a very expensive option) .
Irish people don’t want to pay for the water that comes out of the taps so they’re unlikely to pay for rehabilitating serial burglars.

To be honest I am tired to this foolish statement that all problems can be solved by following the Scandinavian model. These are very different countries than Ireland, they are high tax, largely homogenous, northern European countries who are very law abiding. We cant even get people to pay for water, and if there a loophole in a system, we ride it a much as possible. People who say follow those Swedes are Norwegians are just lazy.

weldoninhio

Blazer wrote: »

paedos - bullet
murderers - bullet
armed robbery- bullets to both kneecaps
hit and run- bullets to elbows
drink driving- car crushed
driving no tax or insurance -car crushed
gbh - gbh
theft- jail
blue collar crime - jail

anyone convicted of any crime to be rendered sterile so as not to propagate more scum

Bullets are expensive. Bolt gun would work just as well.

markodaly

markodaly wrote: »

To be honest I am tired to this foolish statement that all problems can be solved by following the Scandinavian model. These are very different countries than Ireland, they are high tax, largely homogenous, northern European countries who are very law abiding. We cant even get people to pay for water, and if there a loophole in a system, we ride it a much as possible. People who say follow those Swedes are Norwegians are just lazy.

You've not read up on Sweden so, some areas are as racially torn as some of the Algerian ghettos in France.

Norway is different though.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_Norway#Crime_dynamics
A large proportion of the crime that is carried out in Norway is committed by criminals from overseas.[15] 34 percent of the Norwegian prison population are foreigners.[16] In his autobiography Undesirables, British criminal Colin Blaney has claimed that gangs of English thieves target the nation on account of the perception that its prisons are relatively comfortable compared to those of other countries.[17] Studies also indicate that this is one of the reasons that criminals from other parts of the world commit crime in Norway

weldoninhio

[Deleted User] wrote: »

The easy fix is for the store to add a surcharge of something like 50 cents per item over the 12, they'll soon stop that malarkey.

That is one of the best ideas I’ve ever seen on Boards!!!!

Zebra3

DOB swinging from a lamp post?

Hell yeah!!!! :pac:

Hermy

HONKEY TONK wrote: »

Should Ireland become a zero tolerance state in relation to criminal offenses?

Who would enforce it?

weldoninhio

weldoninhio wrote: »

That is one of the best ideas I’ve ever seen on Boards!!!!

The simplest and most obvious ideas are often the best.
But no store will implement it though...

Hermy

Hermy wrote: »

Who would enforce it?

The EU neugestapo!