Soccer Forum's Irish Player of the Year 2017

Rekop dog

Patrick McEleney

Omackeral wrote: »

Yeah everyone is wrong except you.

No, mainly those voting for Maguire. Just like those who voted for Horgan last season(who's now a championship bench warmer). It's all largely based on form from a tragic league ranked below the likes of Iceland and Liechtenstein. Laughable to be winning out over players applying their trade in 2nd highest ranked league in Europe.

Billy86

Best Irish performances - McClean (best player for Ireland this year)
Best overall performances - Duffy (best Irish player this year)
Biggest improvement - Maguire (so much so he could be taking the other two awards even by next year, but he's only getting going at Championship level right now)

Johann.

Patrick McEleney

I can't help but feel the votes for Maguire are a follow on from the calls from hordes of people to have him included in the national side/snapped up by an English club. Both are wonderful achievements for the fella, but based on him excelling in the LoI & the year he's had, doesn't warrant it for me!

Has to be Duffy for me, solid as a rock for the national team, putting in some fantastic performances & at club level has really grown as a prominent figure for the national team in the last year or more.

Ward, McClean & Randolph all worthy of a mention too.

Rekop dog

Daryl Murphy

Rekop dog wrote: »

Hard to account for bad opinions. Shambles of a poll.

How is the poll wrong? By including the player who has over one third of the votes so far?

It is true that players played at a higher level...surrounded by players who made them look better too... Which is not to say they should be excluded, merely that arguments can be framed any way you like.

OldMrBrennan83

Sean Maguire

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Patww79

Daryl Murphy

Patww79 wrote: »

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Oh I agree you can't sensibly compare a striker and a goalkeeper, but that's the nature of polls.

OldMrBrennan83

Sean Maguire

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Patww79

Daryl Murphy

Patww79 wrote: »

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International appearances in 2017 would hardly boost any Irish outfield players claim for player of the year, Wales, Austria and Denmark at home, Georgia away etc.

The Talking Bread

Patrick McEleney

Deleted User wrote: »

International appearances in 2017 would hardly boost any Irish outfield players claim for player of the year, Wales, Austria and Denmark at home, Georgia away etc.

Forgetting Denmark, Randolph's, Ward's, Duffy's, McClean's stock as an Irish international were all increased the last year. Christie also.

The Talking Bread

Daryl Murphy

The Talking Bread wrote: »

Forgetting Denmark, Randolph's, Ward's, Duffy's, McClean's stock as an Irish international were all increased the last year. Christie also.

How quickly we forget that run of 4 pretty awful games in a row that started with Wales at home. A run that only ended when Wales without Bale lost Joe Allen after 25 minutes away. Don't remember much stock rising in that time.

Johann.

Patrick McEleney

The Talking Bread wrote: »

Forgetting Denmark, Randolph's, Ward's, Duffy's, McClean's stock as an Irish international were all increased the last year. Christie also.

I think more so by default, as other prominent players have gone down the pecking order due to age/retirement.

The Talking Bread

Patrick McEleney

Deleted User wrote: »

How quickly we forget that run of 4 pretty awful games in a row that started with Wales at home. A run that only ended when Wales without Bale lost Joe Allen after 25 minutes away. Don't remember much stock rising in that time.

Individually, all the players I listed have put in decent performances.

Feel free to disagree, your perogative. I think a lot of people would be in my corner on this.

I am just saying in general, I am content with the players I listed overall year.

Sadly when it came down to the last game, it all went to sh*t

I am not getting into a to and fro, just stating my opinion that the players I listed had a positive enough year in an Irish shirt

The Talking Bread

Patrick McEleney

Johann. wrote: »

I think more so by default, as other prominent players have gone down the pecking order due to age/retirement.

Fair point I guess.

It is a year to forget, all in all. horrible conclusion

Johann.

Patrick McEleney

The Talking Bread wrote: »

Fair point I guess.

It is a year to forget, all in all. horrible conclusion

This is true. Everyone has to step up to the plate, most of the guys on the list are the guys who can really push us on.

Here's to a better, more successful year.

noodler

Sean Maguire

[Deleted User] wrote: »

How quickly we forget that run of 4 pretty awful games in a row that started with Wales at home. A run that only ended when Wales without Bale lost Joe Allen after 25 minutes away. Don't remember much stock rising in that time.

Fair point.

It was a fairly medicore year for performances and results, Cardiff aside.

I need to take late 2016 out of my head when considering this.

CSF

Sean Maguire

I fail to see any relative failings of the Irish squad make a stronger case for the inclusion in such polls for those who didn’t even do enough to play a role in said squad.

bucketybuck

Is the award for "Best and most talented Irish player", or is it for the "Irish player who had the best year"?

Its a bit inane if it just means the Irish player currently employed at the highest level.

CSF

Sean Maguire

bucketybuck wrote: »

Is the award for "Best and most talented Irish player", or is it for the "Irish player who had the best year"?

Its a bit inane if it just means the Irish player currently employed at the highest level.

Yeah....because we’ve a shortage of players playing at the highest level domestically and playing international football. There’s just the one.....so it’s gotta be him.

Your point is strange unless you’re legitimately suggesting that you don’t have to perform at an elite level to be the best, which I think is nuts.

CSF

Daryl Murphy

CSF wrote: »

I fail to see any relative failings of the Irish squad make a stronger case for the inclusion in such polls for those who didn’t even do enough to play a role in said squad.

For my part I was merely pointing out that I don't accept the converse, that being part of the Irish set up during a pretty bad time for that side should be an absolute requirement. Similarly, I don't think wearing out the bench at a poor Premier League side ala McClean should mean he has some right to make it onto a shortlist, while excelling at a small Championship club or even LoI is insufficient.

Of course, playing at a higher level, club or country, should be positive elements in assessing any player.

CSF

Sean Maguire

Deleted User wrote: »

CSF wrote: »

I fail to see any relative failings of the Irish squad make a stronger case for the inclusion in such polls for those who didn’t even do enough to play a role in said squad.

For my part I was merely pointing out that I don't accept the converse, that being part of the Irish set up during a pretty bad time for that side should be an absolute requirement. Similarly, I don't think wearing out the bench at a poor Premier League side ala McClean should mean he has some right to make it onto a shortlist, while excelling at a small Championship club or even LoI is insufficient.

Of course, playing at a higher level, club or country, should be positive elements in assessing any player.

Well I don’t think any individual stage is a must. But you have to have excelled at some sort of elite football somewhere to be discussed among the elite surely?

He’s a striker and the strongest team he has scored a goal against is Cardiff City. I mean he’s had a breakout year and if there was a poll for breakout star he is a shoein, but as seen with Daryl Horgan he has a long way to go to be discussed even among those derided Irish players like Whelan or McGeady who have been there and done that at Premier League and International level to a standard that managers at these levels thought sufficient to keep them playing there for many years.

bucketybuck

CSF wrote: »

Yeah....because we’ve a shortage of players playing at the highest level domestically and playing international football. There’s just the one.....so it’s gotta be him.

Your point is strange unless you’re legitimately suggesting that you don’t have to perform at an elite level to be the best, which I think is nuts.

So your opinion is that the award is for the "Best Irish player currently playing". Understood. Is that the consensus? Just wondering before I vote.

OldMrBrennan83

Sean Maguire

This post has been deleted.

CSF

Sean Maguire

bucketybuck wrote: »

So your opinion is that the award is for the "Best Irish player currently playing". Understood. Is that the consensus? Just wondering before I vote.

Seems reasonable surely. The 'best player performing at the level he is currently playing at' thing is a nonsense. So if some lad in League 2 bangs in 30+ goals he wins it in spite of the fact that he might not be able to hold a torch even to someone like Daryl Murphy at the same level? That makes no sense whatsoever.

Sean Maguire has done well to get to a level where he might start to prove himself but he has excelled nowhere other than the League of Ireland yet, and we have to be reasonable about how relatively poor the standard of our league is. Cork and Dundalk are ok teams but after that the league just takes a gigantic nosedive. Like people try compare the league standard to Championship or League One, but teams like Finn Harps, Galway, Drogheda Limerick wouldn't even be close to the standard of being in the Football League at all.

bucketybuck

CSF wrote: »

Seems reasonable surely.

Reasonable is just opinion. Its reasonable to award the best Irish player in the country. Just as it is reasonable to award the player who achieved the most success, or the player who most exceeded expectations. The player who had the greatest impact, or the player who had the most influence.

None of them are incorrect, its just a matter of what question the poll is trying to answer. Worth noting though, that the easiest one to judge is usually the question of who is simply the best player.

CSF

Sean Maguire

bucketybuck wrote: »

CSF wrote: »

Seems reasonable surely.

Reasonable is just opinion. Its reasonable to award the best Irish player in the country. Just as it is reasonable to award the player who achieved the most success, or the player who most exceeded expectations. The player who had the greatest impact, or the player who had the most influence.

None of them are incorrect, its just a matter of what question the poll is trying to answer. Worth noting though, that the easiest one to judge is usually the question of who is simply the best player.

I think it’s natural to assume that the framework that applies to pretty much every other player of the year award applies to this.

You can frame an argument to suit whatever end you want, you’re right. But you shouldn’t.

bucketybuck

CSF wrote: »

I think it’s natural to assume that the framework that applies to pretty much every other player of the year award applies to this.

You can frame an argument to suit whatever end you want, you’re right. But you shouldn’t.

Argument? All I did was ask a question. But I will note that quite a few player of the year awards are won by players who are demonstrably not the best player in their country or playing at the highest possible level.

For example. Alan Kelly won the award previously, and then Mark Kinsela the following year. Those years were 1999 and 2000, when a certain Roy Keane was playing a few games.

Rekop dog

Patrick McEleney

bucketybuck wrote: »

Argument? All I did was ask a question. But I will note that quite a few player of the year awards are won by players who are demonstrably not the best player in their country or playing at the highest possible level.

For example. Alan Kelly won the award previously, and then Mark Kinsela the following year. Those years were 1999 and 2000, when a certain Roy Keane was playing a few games.

They were playing in the premier league though at the time. Nobody is saying to just choose the player at the best side in the best league. In fact it's probably more impressive if you can stand out at one of the lesser sides in the best league like those two mentioned did. Or like Duffy has.

CSF

Sean Maguire

bucketybuck wrote: »

CSF wrote: »

I think it’s natural to assume that the framework that applies to pretty much every other player of the year award applies to this.

You can frame an argument to suit whatever end you want, you’re right. But you shouldn’t.

Argument? All I did was ask a question. But I will note that quite a few player of the year awards are won by players who are demonstrably not the best player in their country or playing at the highest possible level.

For example. Alan Kelly won the award previously, and then Mark Kinsela the following year. Those years were 1999 and 2000, when a certain Roy Keane was playing a few games.

That’s an interesting point you make. My 17-18 year old history is fairly shaky so I actually can’t remember what any of them (bar united treble) did that year. If they performed better than Keane did that year (most notably for Ireland which I think is weighted most heavily in these kinds of awards) then they deserve it, even if they aren’t naturally more talented than Keane.

But in 1999 in particular it’s hard to imagine anyone was better than Keane so it’s hard to see where that would be plucked from.

bot43

Daryl Murphy

Lol at whoever said McGeady proved himself at Premier League level. Makes any other points you make invalid.

As for a guy in league 2 scoring 30 versus a guy in the championship scoring a handful. Damn right the league 2 guy is having a better season.

noodler

Sean Maguire

bot43 wrote: »

Lol at whoever said McGeady proved himself at Premier League level. Makes any other points you make invalid.

As for a guy in league 2 scoring 30 versus a guy in the championship scoring a handful. Damn right the league 2 guy is having a better season.

How many did McGeady score in the championship in 2017?

TheCitizen

Sean Maguire

It's between McClean and Duffy, I went for McClean.

Seanie Maguire? hopefully has a future ahead of him but isn't established as a full international for Ireland at all, yet he has significantly more votes than the other two? Is there an anti-Nordie thing going on there or something?

The Talking Bread

Patrick McEleney

TheCitizen wrote: »

It's between McClean and Duffy, I went for McClean.

Seanie Maguire? hopefully has a future ahead of him but isn't established as a full international for Ireland at all, yet he has significantly more votes than the other two? Is there an anti-Nordie thing going on there or something?

What??

I voted Duffy but I doubt ANYONE that voted Maguire dismissed the other two due to them being from Derry.

Silly stuff.

I think anyone who voted Maguire that has given an explanation why has offered a fair enough point why they personally voted for him.

"Anti-Nordie thing". Give us a break.

farna_boy

Daryl Murphy

TheCitizen wrote: »

It's between McClean and Duffy, I went for McClean.

Seanie Maguire? hopefully has a future ahead of him but isn't established as a full international for Ireland at all, yet he has significantly more votes than the other two? Is there an anti-Nordie thing going on there or something?

The poll has nothing to do with the national team per se, although the national team is mentioned frequently throughout the original post.

The poll is for best player who is Irish, otherwise Patrick McEleney wouldn't be on the list.

My guess is that since no Irish players, outside League of Ireland, have contributed much to their team winning anything or have had any major achievements with their club, their only benchmark is the national team.

Mr.Nice Guy

Patrick McEleney

I voted for Duffy because he has done well for club and country, but I can see the argument for Maguire.

Poll closes tonight.

Billy86

bot43 wrote: »

Lol at whoever said McGeady proved himself at Premier League level. Makes any other points you make invalid.

As for a guy in league 2 scoring 30 versus a guy in the championship scoring a handful. Damn right the league 2 guy is having a better season.

In that case there's a chap in the local astroturf league who you can put the house on scoring 4-5 every single game despite playing in midfield and dictating the game all the time. Since he's probably gone and scored north of 100 goals this year can we give the Irish POTY award to him?

TheCitizen

Sean Maguire

The Talking Bread wrote: »

What??

I voted Duffy but I doubt ANYONE that voted Maguire dismissed the other two due to them being from Derry.

Silly stuff.

I think anyone who voted Maguire that has given an explanation why has offered a fair enough point why they personally voted for him.

"Anti-Nordie thing". Give us a break.

"Silly stuff... give us a break" etc..." I think it's daft that a young player who left the LOI and is trying to break into a Championship team gets significantly more of the votes than a few others who are operating at a much higher level. You give us a break FFS.

TheCitizen

Sean Maguire

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

I voted for Duffy because he has done well for club and country, but I can see the argument for Maguire.

Poll closes tonight.

I can't. Hopefully Maguire will develop and become a regular striker for club and country. maybe then if he gets to that level he'd be in with a shout of "Irish Player of the Year".

TheCitizen

Sean Maguire

farna_boy wrote: »

The poll has nothing to do with the national team per se, although the national team is mentioned frequently throughout the original post.

The poll is for best player who is Irish, otherwise Patrick McEleney wouldn't be on the list.

My guess is that since no Irish players, outside League of Ireland, have contributed much to their team winning anything or have had any major achievements with their club, their only benchmark is the national team.

Seanie Maguire shouldn't be getting most votes no matter what the criteria is. If he becomes an ever present starter for club and country and performs well next year then he might be in the running.

farna_boy

Daryl Murphy

Billy86 wrote: »

In that case there's a chap in the local astroturf league who you can put the house on scoring 4-5 every single game despite playing in midfield and dictating the game all the time. Since he's probably gone and scored north of 100 goals this year can we give the Irish POTY award to him?

Yeah, there is obviously no difference between him and Maguire.

It's not as if Maguire only played 3/4 of a season here and still finished top scorer in the league.

Or that he was recruited into a new league which is considered to be at least 3 (if not 20, depending who you ask) levels greater than this league.

Or even that he then went on to score 4 goals in 13 appearances before getting injured, all the while playing out of position in the new league.

But of course you are right, he's done nothing this year never mind winning a senior cap for his country this year. Instead let's include your buddy in the astro league because he is definitely comparable and a better nominee.

noodler

Sean Maguire

The Maguire votes do not seem justified to me.

McGeady scored alot more championship goals in 2017.

Mr.Nice Guy

Patrick McEleney

Congratulations to Sean Maguire, your choice as the Boards Soccer Forum Irish Player of the Year for 2017.

1st place - Sean Maguire - 32%
2nd place - Shane Duffy - 27%
3rd place - James McClean - 26%

Happy New Year to everyone on the board and here's hoping it's a happier time for Irish football in 2018.

TheCitizen

Sean Maguire

noodler wrote: »

The Maguire votes do not seem justified to me.

McGeady scored alot more championship goals in 2017.

Think some are havin a laugh with this thread. Not on the same scale obviously but reminds me of when that Irish guy in the Juventus reserves won some online poll.

Fr Tod Umptious

TheCitizen wrote: »

Think some are havin a laugh with this thread. Not on the same scale obviously but reminds me of when that Irish guy in the Juventus reserves won some online poll.

Ronnie O Brien I think was his name, about 20 years ago, moved from 'Boro to Juventus.

It was the official Juventus site too.

In the early days of online polls, no cookies, no restrictions etc.

Omackeral

Cyrus Christie

TheCitizen wrote: »

Think some are havin a laugh with this thread. Not on the same scale obviously but reminds me of when that Irish guy in the Juventus reserves won some online poll.

There were no real obvious standouts though, voted Randolph myself. Maguire shot up very quickly and made waves here domestically as top scorer. Went to England and hit the ground running. Got called up. That's a stellar year in anyone's books.

TheCitizen

Sean Maguire

Omackeral wrote: »

There were no real obvious standouts though, voted Randolph myself. Maguire shot up very quickly and made waves here domestically as top scorer. Went to England and hit the ground running. Got called up. That's a stellar year in anyone's books.

He had a great year fair play to him and hopefully he'll be a striker for Ireland for years to come, but "Irish Player of the Year 2017"? Nah, some round here got to be havin a laugh with that one.

Omackeral

Cyrus Christie

TheCitizen wrote: »

He had a great year fair play to him and hopefully he'll be a striker for Ireland for years to come, but "Irish Player of the Year 2017"? Nah, some round here got to be havin a laugh with that one.

Who was an absolute stand out in your opinion? The majority reckon he was the best. I'll go along with that even though I didn't vote for him myself.

Billy86

farna_boy wrote: »

Yeah, there is obviously no difference between him and Maguire.

It's not as if Maguire only played 3/4 of a season here and still finished top scorer in the league.

Or that he was recruited into a new league which is considered to be at least 3 (if not 20, depending who you ask) levels greater than this league.

Or even that he then went on to score 4 goals in 13 appearances before getting injured, all the while playing out of position in the new league.

But of course you are right, he's done nothing this year never mind winning a senior cap for his country this year. Instead let's include your buddy in the astro league because he is definitely comparable and a better nominee.

There's a major gap in your argument - he finished top scorer in a league you describe as up to 20 levels below the second tier of English football. That's my point about the lad with 150 goals in the local astro league, as the poster I was replying to seemed to think that the level you play at isn't relevant. So either yer man in the astro league is more deserving than Maguire, or the LOI being such a low level means it's incomparably below the likes of the Premier League where Duffy for example has been doing well this year.

Four goals half a Championship season is pretty good, but it's hardly ripping the league to shreds and being injured doesn't count towards an award or we'd be giving to Seamus Coleman for playing at his level for the first three months of the year with Everton. I think Maguire has a Premiership career ahead of him, but if we're using that as the measure then McGeady has 5 this season and 12 this calendar year (9 of which funny enough were with Preston) - and he has more international caps.

Maguire also won a senior cap for Ireland, getting 10 minutes at the end against Moldova - but that's an argument against him winning the award. Not sure if you've noticed, but a lot of players have well more than one senior cap this year, so why is 1 greater than the 6, 7 or 8 caps that many lads playing at a higher level than him have got?

As for your defensive "he's done nothing" comment, he has - breakthrough player of the year? Unquestionably. But this isn't for breakthrough player. We've not really had a standout this season so I don't mind him winning it, but pointing out that he scored 20 goals in a largely amateur league then almost scored as many goals so far this season as his Irish team mate and won a cap compared to that team mates two caps, does not really do his case a world of good.

OldMrBrennan83

Sean Maguire

This post has been deleted.

Bounty Hunter

Patrick McEleney

I voted for Duffy but fair play Sean the public via boards have spoken. Who gave them a voice *shrugs* but they picked you!

noodler

Sean Maguire

Omackeral wrote: »

Who was an absolute stand out in your opinion? The majority reckon he was the best. I'll go along with that even though I didn't vote for him myself.

Why do they reckon it?

What's he got? Four championship goals?


Is it less?


Is there a metric other than people simply liking the fact a recent LOI player is making a decent fist of it in the Championship.?