Time for High Rise in Dublin City

Orange Juice 935

Walking down the streets of Dublin you will notice that Dublin has no High (Building such as those in Tokyo, Hong Kong and New York)

My question is, 'Should Dublin City and other cities in Ireland go up?'

In my personal opinion yes it should. Living just outside of Dublin County I can clearly see the results of Urban Sprawl. If Dublin was to go up, it would stop the Urban Sprawl and lower rent prices.

dotsman

No

Dublin is a joke when it comes to city planning. And cork, Limerick and Galway are following in it's footsteps.

At this stage, there should be at least another 100K beds and 50K office desks in the city center and another 150K beds in the city (non center). That would still be relatively low density, but enough to justify far better public transport lines (2-3 underground, plus another 2-3 luas lines).

But the problem is that it doesn't happen by accident, or overnight. The planning for that should have happened 30 years ago. The damage to Dublin is now permanent, and it almost getting too late for the other Irish cities.

Wheety

No

Should have allowed it down in the IFSC. And all the way down to the docks.

neckedit

maybe we should just decentralise as discussed years ago. take the pressure of Dublin and the knock on effect would be less pressure in the housing market. no need to build 100k apartments. No need to have this rental situation were people are working just to pay rent.

Wheety

No

neckedit wrote: »

maybe we should just decentralise as discussed years ago. take the pressure of Dublin and the knock on effect would be less pressure in the housing market. no need to build 100k apartments. No need to have this rental situation were people are working just to pay rent.

Decentralise jobs? Private as well as public?

Civil Service tried it and it didn't work.

You're not going to see the big banks, accountancy and tech firms all over the country. They'll stay where the population, transport and facilities are. The cities are where this will always be. So we need more accommodation in the cities, especially the capital.

Most capital cities around the world build upwards to avoid sprawling outwards. Look what happens here. People commuting to Dublin from surrounding counties every day. Would have a knock on affect on traffic too. Less people driving if they live in the city centre or close to reliable, frequent transport.

Dr Crayfish

No

Ireland is terribly planned. From one off housing blighting the countryside to urban sprawl. I've never met anyone who wouldn't like to see high rise in Dublin. NIMBYism seems to be stopping the Apple data centre being built and seems to hold up every bloody project for years.
Why are we even discussing this when we know it's a f**king pipe dream? Much like Metro North, I'll be lucky to see that in my life ffs.

Dr Crayfish

No

Also can we not get rid of the absolute eyesores that are Liberty Hall and Busarus and replace them with something more modern, and why not go high too?

RobAMerc

Yes with design limits

Dublin / Ireland is being destroyed by fundamentalists and small minded lunatics.

The other day I noticed that the LUAS at College green headed North has to share the road with buses, while a cycle lane takes up 30% of the road outside the Bank Of Ireland. WTF !

While I am a keen cyclist and commuter I think this is insane and clearly the work of someone with a skewed view of how Dublin should be. they also believe we should all be living in the middle of no-where and coming into the city on Public Transport rather than living in the city.

Just plain stupid.

markpb

No

neckedit wrote: »

maybe we should just decentralise as discussed years ago. take the pressure of Dublin and the knock on effect would be less pressure in the housing market. no need to build 100k apartments. No need to have this rental situation were people are working just to pay rent.

If we moved 10% of the population out of Dublin, do you think the rest of the country would have the houses, offices and transport to cope with that? Isn't it likely that we'd replicate the same problem all over the county?

Besides which, you're ignoring the fact that companies want to set up where there are large populations because it's easier to hire people and there will always be a big chunk of people who want to live in cities because of the jobs and other facilities that come along with that.

markpb

No

RobAMerc wrote: »

The other day I noticed that the LUAS at College green headed North has to share the road with buses, while a cycle lane takes up 30% of the road outside the Bank Of Ireland. WTF !

Before you dismiss it completely, do you know what percentage of people using college green are on bikes and what percentage the council would like it to be? Perhaps the 30% is a representative share?

Amirani

neckedit wrote: »

maybe we should just decentralise as discussed years ago. take the pressure of Dublin and the knock on effect would be less pressure in the housing market. no need to build 100k apartments. No need to have this rental situation were people are working just to pay rent.

I know for a fact that if my employer tried to "decentralise" my job then they wouldn't be my employer much longer. I know it'd be the same most young professionals that I work and socialise with.

Young educated people by and large want to live in large urban centres with things going on. Dublin fits the bill on this for me, but not by much. Start taking people out of the city and I'd immediately be looking at moves to London, Berlin etc.

Only solution to current issues are to increase densities in Dublin and provide better transport links. The other cities have roles to play as regional hubs (and I support their development), but they can't realistically be seen as competitors/realistic alternatives to Dublin.

Fred_Johnson

No

RobAMerc wrote: »

Dublin / Ireland is being destroyed by fundamentalists and small minded lunatics.

The other day I noticed that the LUAS at College green headed North has to share the road with buses, while a cycle lane takes up 30% of the road outside the Bank Of Ireland. WTF !

While I am a keen cyclist and commuter I think this is insane and clearly the work of someone with a skewed view of how Dublin should be. they also believe we should all be living in the middle of no-where and coming into the city on Public Transport rather than living in the city.

Just plain stupid.

I noticed that utterly insane cycle lane as well. Bonkers.

To be fair that's probably more the work of the Green lobby.

You have to look at the composition of DCC to really understand what's happening. SF largest party, along with the likes of AAA, Workers party and the Greens.

Basically, representatives of the very poor or the very rich, neither of whom do much 9 to 5 work, vastly outnumber the representatives of the average private sector worker who needs to traverse Dublin for business. So of course, this most important demographic gets screwed. This is the fundamental problem facing the governing of Dublin.

And why don't they want tall buildings in Dublin? Because it will bring more young professionals into the city who won't vote for them. They fear gentrification.

RasTa

Yes with design limits

That's the way every cycle lane should be in the city. It's the way it is in most European cities. Cars have got to be removed from the city center.

Fred_Johnson

No

RasTa wrote: »

That's the way every cycle lane should be in the city. It's the way it is in most European cities. Cars have got to be removed from the city center.

BS. Not until we have an extensive network of metros, like other European cities. They have to come first. Crowded onto a luas that moves barely faster than I can walk won't cut it either.

RasTa

Yes with design limits

Fred_Johnson wrote: »

BS. Not until we have an extensive network of metros, like other European cities. They have to come first. Crowded onto a luas that moves barely faster than I can walk won't cut it either.

No chance, you move faster on a bicycle then in a car in the center anyway. I've a motorbike, car and bike and depending on mood would use the bike most days as like a pint after work and can just throw the bike on the train.

Cars have got to go, I see them in the morning all single occupants going to work and they need to be removed or taxed for causing congestion.

Fred_Johnson

No

RasTa wrote: »

No chance, you move faster on a bicycle then in a car in the center anyway. .

Hmmm...

Tell that to the commuter coming int oDublin from rural parts of Meath and Kildare...
Tell that to the guy in his 50's with a bad hip / dodgy leg that he should get on his bike and risk it....
Tell that to anyone who wears a suit to work and wants to remain dry and not dripping in sweat...

And most of all, tell that to the working parent who has to drop his/her two kids off at school before driving to work!!!!....

Bikes are fine for a small sub-section of the population in good weather, but not an adequate response to Dublins transportation needs.

Dr Crayfish

No

Fred_Johnson wrote: »

And most of all, tell that to the working parent who has to drop his/her two kids off at school before driving to work!!!!....

I would imagine most people could get away with letting their little darlings walk to school or take the bus, like I used to do, school traffic seems to be the root of the problem as the traffic in Dublin in summer is grand

P_1

Fred_Johnson wrote: »

Hmmm...

Tell that to the commuter coming int oDublin from rural parts of Meath and Kildare... - P&R on the outskirts of the city with decent PT into the city.

Tell that to the guy in his 50's with a bad hip / dodgy leg that he should get on his bike and risk it.... Fair enough

Tell that to anyone who wears a suit to work and wants to remain dry and not dripping in sweat... Showers and lockers in work. If they can afford to heir people suited and booted they can afford to install these

And most of all, tell that to the working parent who has to drop his/her two kids off at school before driving to work!!!!.... Kids don't need to be driven 2km to school

Bikes are fine for a small sub-section of the population in good weather, but not an adequate response to Dublins transportation needs.

Fair enough

Dr Crayfish

No

Fred_Johnson wrote: »

Tell that to anyone who wears a suit to work and wants to remain dry and not dripping in sweat....

I cycle to work every day and don't break a sweat. Look at countries like Holland and Denmark where a large percentage of people cycle to work, sweating isn't an issue.

yabadabado

No

Wheety wrote: »

Should have allowed it down in the IFSC. And all the way down to the docks.

Still plenty of land down there that it could happen but most likely too many objections.
A proper mix of office/residential/commercial down IFSC/Docklands would be ideal, it's a ghost town down there outside of office hours.

Either way something needs to be done ASAP. So many wasted opportunities in city centre.

Stephen15

No

I would support Dublin going high rise however I am not in favour of having huge skyscrapers in the IFSC. I think it's 6 or 7 story high density apartment blocks we should be building and not 50 story office buildings.

You don't see massive ugly skyscrapers very much in Europe anyway bar London, Frankfurt and Paris (to a smaller degree).

Dr Crayfish

No

Another thing is the amount of vacant buildings all over the city centre. George's st up to Camden street has loads. If you look out for them they are just everywhere.

yabadabado

No

Stephen15 wrote: »

I would support Dublin going high rise however I am not in favour of having huge skyscrapers in the IFSC. I think it's 6 or 7 story high density apartment blocks we should be building and not 50 story office buildings.

You don't see massive ugly skyscrapers very much in Europe anyway bar London, Frankfurt and Paris (to a smaller degree).

I would say we need at least 12 storey in city centre as a minimum anything less is a waste imo.
We don't need 50 storey office blocks but need to move into much higher buildings in and around the main transport hubs and work.
Done right these buildings don't have to be ugly, so many messes made in the past I wouldn't be too confident of them not ****ing up high rise.

Fred_Johnson

No

Dr Crayfish wrote: »

I cycle to work every day and don't break a sweat. Look at countries like Holland and Denmark where a large percentage of people cycle to work, sweating isn't an issue.

That's because in Holland and Denmark, middle class professionals with families can live in large city centre apartments.

IN Ireland, due to low density in the city centre and preferences for the house and garden, those people are living in the LA style urban sprawl or in neighbouring counties. People dependent on State welfare with no job to go to are the ones living in the city centre.

Can we please deal with Dublin as it actually is, rather than you wishing we were like Holland or Denmark?

Dr Crayfish

No

Fred_Johnson wrote: »

Can we please deal with Dublin as it actually is, rather than you wishing we were like Holland or Denmark?

Well I live a 30 min cycle from Dublin city centre. As do thousands of other idiots who drive to work and clog up the city every day. So that's how it actually is for me.

dotsman

No

Stephen15 wrote: »

I would support Dublin going high rise however I am not in favour of having huge skyscrapers in the IFSC. I think it's 6 or 7 story high density apartment blocks we should be building and not 50 story office buildings.

You don't see massive ugly skyscrapers very much in Europe anyway bar London, Frankfurt and Paris (to a smaller degree).

IFSC, Grand Canal, Smithfield and Hueston should all be a minimum of double digits. I agree, not skyscrapers, but 6 or 7 story just won't cut it - at least twice that. Ideally, all new buildings in these areas should be anywhere between 10-20 stories.

dotsman

No

RasTa wrote: »

No chance, you move faster on a bicycle then in a car in the center anyway. I've a motorbike, car and bike and depending on mood would use the bike most days as like a pint after work and can just throw the bike on the train.

Cars have got to go, I see them in the morning all single occupants going to work and they need to be removed or taxed for causing congestion.

But you can't just magically get rid of cars - taxing and removing car lanes just makes it worse. To reduce the number of cars, you need to increase the public transport options which, in turn, depends on proper planning and high density.

A reduction in the number of cars is the end result of proper planning. Simply skipping all that and telling people not to use cars just doesn't work.

RasTa

Yes with design limits

dotsman wrote: »

But you can't just magically get rid of cars - taxing and removing car lanes just makes it worse. To reduce the number of cars, you need to increase the public transport options which, in turn, depends on proper planning and high density.

A reduction in the number of cars is the end result of proper planning. Simply skipping all that and telling people not to use cars just doesn't work.

You just stick cameras around like the ones for the tolls on the M50. Beep car not registered to be driving in the city? Enjoy €500 fine.

That will stop them quick enough. You want to drive, make sure you have your paid sticker visible.

Not sure why you would remove car lanes.

yabadabado

No

dotsman wrote: »

IFSC, Grand Canal, Smithfield and Hueston should all be a minimum of double digits. I agree, not skyscrapers, but 6 or 7 story just won't cut it - at least twice that. Ideally, all new buildings in these areas should be anywhere between 10-20 stories.

Those 4 areas would be a great starting off point. High rise and high density beside transport hubs in the city centre needs to priority. Get more people living in the city centre is a no brainer imo but can't really be done unless we go up. 20 storey mixed developments need to be built.

dotsman

No

RasTa wrote: »

You just stick cameras around like the ones for the tolls on the M50. Beep car not registered to be driving in the city? Enjoy €500 fine.

That will stop them quick enough. You want to drive, make sure you have your paid sticker visible.

Not sure why you would remove car lanes.

But why fine cars or make them register (and register for what)??? Nobody is driving through Dublin city centre today during rush hour for the fun of it. They are doing so because they have no alternative. Hitting them with additional charges will make no difference - you are just punishing them for the lack of proper planning.

yabadabado

No

dotsman wrote: »

But why fine cars or make them register (and register for what)??? Nobody is driving through Dublin city centre today during rush hour for the fun of it. They are doing so because they have no alternative. Hitting them with additional charges will make no difference - you are just punishing them for the lack of proper planning.

Isn't it proven if you get rid of car lanes then drivers will find alternative routes/modes of transport etc.
On the phone so can't link but any changes need to go hand in hand with improved PT.
I would be all in favour of a few places in city centre being car free in peak time during the week.

MN and Dart interconnector should be build ASAP and then make LUAS Green Line heavy rail.