Clontarf bike lane - what a shambles

odyssey06

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

Do people actually need to look at the sea? I don't think I ever think of looking at it when I'm on the Clontarf track.

Yes, native Clontarfians draw their energy from the sea, like Superman from the sun, and if they don't see the sea at least once a week, revert to their natural amphibious state... or something.

It's not so much a need, but there seems to be something to a seaview that brings a lot of people to Clontarf (and similar locations such as Dun Laoghaire, Howth, Malahide) to enjoy the view along the promenade, and not just people from Clontarf. The same happens abroad in places such as Nice and its promenade des Anglais. Hotel rooms with a sea view are regularly priced higher than standard rooms.

Not 100% sure why, and rather than diverging into a discussion of the Aquatic Ape theory that humans underwent a formative evoluntionary period as shore dwellers, I'll just mention it as something to google if you are interested...

AndrewJRenko

Does it block the view from the houses, or just from cars in traffic?

odyssey06

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Does it block the view from the houses, or just from cars in traffic?

At least half of the current wall doesn't have houses opposite which is why there wasn't a clamour from locals for defences here ... the only thing at risk of flooding is the road and the duck pond in St Annes.

Of the stretch that does have houses, I haven't been into one, but I think it would likely block the view from downstairs if sitting, but not standing and certainly not if upstairs.

odyssey06

expectationlost wrote: »

if people want to go for walks by the sea, they can, i don't know why they would walk on the far side of the road

The far side of the road for much of the stretch has St Annes Park, so you can have quite a lovely walk under the trees, sheltered from wind and rain, while looking out on Dublin Bay, Bull Island and on one side Howth looming, and on the other side the Poolbeg towers rising up with the Dublin mountains further in the distance.

I don't know if that view is worth hundreds of thousands of pounds, hard to put a value on such things but it has been appreciated by many thousands of Dubliners for generations...

Mercian Pro

odyssey06 wrote: »

Its about the people who live in an area having a proper input into decisions that impact them.

The impact, such as it is, will not affect residents of Clontarf unless they happen to be driving out to Howth. It's the commuters of Howth, Sutton, Kilbarrack etc heading into Dublin who may now see slightly less of the lagoon.

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Does it block the view from the houses, or just from cars in traffic?

The 600m section of wall that is to be lowered is across from St Anne's Park and no houses will benefit from the work.

magicbastarder

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/environment/clontarf-wall-what-exactly-can-you-see-from-a-moving-car-1.3360023

Dublin City councillors voted earlier in January to spend €500,000 to carry out the work despite being warned it will have to be rebuilt in the future.
...
After a lengthy dispute with local residents, the council agreed to reduce the height of the wall by up to 30cm along almost half a kilometre opposite St Anne’s Park.

The wall does not obscure the views of Dublin Bay for pedestrians and cyclists using the new path, and the section being reduced is not opposite any houses. However, the council warned if the wall was not lowered motorists would have restricted views of the sea.

because that's exactly what we should be doing, providing a view for motorists who should be looking at the road.

Chips Lovell

Jesus wept

Alanstrainor

And it's such a small section of the wall that this concerns... what a joke!

Searchers

Good to see the IT video post as it makes the issue clear to anyone not familiar with the location.

Probably worth noting that for much of the year many car occupants won’t be able to see the view no matter how low the wall is, because they will be commuting during darkness.

Also, and apart from road safety issues, the extent to which the view can be currently enjoyed from a car is relative to the type of car. For example, SUVs vs standard saloon cars...

If I read the IT article and others correctly, it implies that this stretch of the cycle and foot path will be closed from April to October - the months of peak usage - when it is undoubtedly one of the best civic and natural amenities in the city.

Not clear at this stage if there will be a need to also close a road lane as had been the case when the cycle lane was being installed. Either way, hopefully there will be much better signage to advise drivers of the number of cyclists that will be sharing the carriage way than there was during the installation works.

Carawaystick

If the Corpo put a stop-go single lane for motorists and used the other road lane for cyclists, that would be epic trolling, during the deconstruction...

CramCycle

I am familiar with the location but haven't been out that way in awhile. I nearly fell off my seat laughing when I seen the wall.

Other than lower defences, what effect does it actually make visually?!?!

CramCycle

Can someone explain to me again, as it has been lost on me, who complained? It can't be cyclists, doesn't affect their view, unlikely to be many pedestrians as the majority of adults, teenagers and a few children it does not affect, although it may affect very small children and wheelchair users (have either group complained?) It could be locals, although one would ponder why, as it does not affect the view, in any way, from any perspective. More importantly, I could do the job, quicker, with less disruption than planned, give me a sledge hammer, a wheelbarrow and a truck, plus 500,000. It would be done by June with a the glorious sight of a ripped middle aged cyclist swinging his hammer atop the wall.

josip

CramCycle wrote: »

Can someone explain to me again, as it has been lost on me, who complained? It can't be cyclists, doesn't affect their view, unlikely to be many pedestrians as the majority of adults, teenagers and a few children it does not affect, although it may affect very small children and wheelchair users (have either group complained?) It could be locals, although one would ponder why, as it does not affect the view, in any way, from any perspective. More importantly, I could do the job, quicker, with less disruption than planned, give me a sledge hammer, a wheelbarrow and a truck, plus 500,000. It would be done by June with a the glorious sight of a ripped middle aged cyclist swinging his hammer atop the wall.

So you'll outsource the job then?

CramCycle

CramCycle wrote: »

Can someone explain to me again, as it has been lost on me, who complained? It can't be cyclists, doesn't affect their view, unlikely to be many pedestrians as the majority of adults, teenagers and a few children it does not affect, although it may affect very small children and wheelchair users (have either group complained?) It could be locals, although one would ponder why, as it does not affect the view, in any way, from any perspective. More importantly, I could do the job, quicker, with less disruption than planned, give me a sledge hammer, a wheelbarrow and a truck, plus 500,000. It would be done by June with a the glorious sight of a ripped middle aged cyclist swinging his hammer atop the wall.

You'll need help , I'll breast feed a shovel and provide hi-vis vests I got for free for the RSA for a 20% slice of the pie. :pac:

magicbastarder

Deleted User wrote: »

I'll breast feed a shovel

well, that's a phrase i'd not hear before.

railer201

The present wall is so low at certain points that there is a good chance some one out walking will tumble over it into the lagoon and injure themselves, or worse.

The current high section they want to cut back is actually much safer from a pedestrian's point of view.

Looking at a mass poured concrete wall is clearly irritating some of the local neurotics so complaining about the view sounds more normal - not much though.

Mercian Pro

railer201 wrote: »

The present wall is so low at certain points that there is a good chance some one out walking will tumble over it into the lagoon and injure themselves, or worse.

The current high section they want to cut back is actually much safer from a pedestrian's point of view.

Mercian Pro wrote: »

He proposed a compromise wall height of 3.95m OD that allows for flooding of the road in extreme events but won't affect any private properties. This height was subsequently found to be too low to prevent pedestrians falling over the wall so a finished height of 4.06m OD in places is now proposed.

This will result in a wall height of 0.5m above pavement level along this stretch.

el tel

Lowering the wall? That's not very Irish. What they need to do is raise the road, the gob****es.

Searchers

Significant work being done at the car park at The Sheds/bottom of Vernon Ave today. It looks like buffers are being installed to prevent cars “overhanging” the bike lane, and hopefully to also prevent small children wandering out from between parked cars. A lot of work had been done by the home-bound commuting time.

A very welcome improvement if this is what’s underway.

Effects

Searchers wrote: »

It looks like buffers are being installed to prevent cars “overhanging” the bike lane.

I remember someone posted about a bike rack sticking off the back of one of the cars there before. Dangerous spot alright.

Moflojo

https://twitter.com/dublincycling/status/955766700594679809

mathie

Searchers wrote: »

Significant work being done at the car park at The Sheds/bottom of Vernon Ave today. It looks like buffers are being installed to prevent cars “overhanging” the bike lane, and hopefully to also prevent small children wandering out from between parked cars. A lot of work had been done by the home-bound commuting time.

A very welcome improvement if this is what’s underway.

Passed this morning and it seems they're putting in a path that runs parallel to the bike lane thus keeping the cars off the bike lane.

Not sure why they didn't go with the buffer things. Probably cheaper to do it this way.

Alanstrainor

mathie wrote: »

Passed this morning and it seems they're putting in a path that runs parallel to the bike lane thus keeping the cars off the bike lane.

Not sure why they didn't go with the buffer things. Probably cheaper to do it this way.

Dual purpose this way. It was always weird to me that there was no path running around the car park. Pedestrians were almost forced to use the bike lane as it stood. Good to see the works being carried out all the same.

Raam

Alanstrainor wrote: »

Dual purpose this way. It was always weird to me that there was no path running around the car park. Pedestrians were almost forced to use the bike lane as it stood. Good to see the works being carried out all the same.

Unless buffers are installed they will still be forced to use it, judging by the way some people park.

carltonleon

Why don't they just raise the road by a foot :pac::pac::D !!!!

buffalo

Raam wrote: »

Unless buffers are installed they will still be forced to use it, judging by the way some people park.

They could take the 30cm they're shaving off the sea wall at St Anne's and put it along the kerb of the carpark here. Everyone's a winner!

mr spuckler

I saw around 10 sheffield stands installed when I passed by this morning, great development here tbf

Alanstrainor

mr spuckler wrote: »

I saw around 10 sheffield stands installed when I passed by this morning, great development here tbf

Noticed the stands this morning. Fair play to them, they fixed all the problems I had with it. New signs/plastic poll things to show it is a cycle lane too. Good stuff.

mr spuckler

yep, the signage is a very welcome addition. this actually seems pretty well thought out and executed :eek:

more Sheffield stands were installed yesterday, I think I counted a total of 18 this morning (I was on the move so hard to be sure!) but suffice to say there are loads.

Ferris

I commute on the Clontarf cycleway and while it may have its issues, my view is that I wouldn't be without it, its a great resource.

I couldn't care less about heights of walls and all that nonsense, th view of the sea is great from a bike.

However, while its heartening to see improvements being made such as the stands and the new kerb at the car parks, its the tip of the pile as to what needs to be done to improve the older parts of the cycleway, to make it fit for purpose. My bugbears in order of importance:

Lighting - On the section from Blackbanks to Sutton the street lighting is on the inland side of the road and this means that most of the cyclelane is in shadow from the stone wall. When heading towards Sutton in the evening the lights from car blinds cyclists further and its even worse when its raining and you wear glasses. The risk of not seeing a pedestrian or other cyclists (even with lights) is huge in my book, not to mention picking out manhole covers

Manhole covers in the cyclelane - I commute on a hardtail MTB and I find the level changes over sunken manhole covers way too rough. On the roadbike its enough to knock you off path and potentially into other users or the stone wall.

Opposite Clontarf bus station the entrances to the carparks is doglegged, beset with traffic poles narrowing the lane and, worst of all, bushes obscure the view of crossing cars, bikes and pedestrians. Have had a couple of incidents with cars entering the carpark where they didn't see me, and to be fair, the junction is a nightmare.

In the eastbound lane there is a large street pole inline with the traffic poles when crossing the access road to the clontarf baths. Just narrows the lane to an unacceptable level. If a user clipped either pole with their handlebars it would be a nasty one.

The grass verge is creeping into the westbound lane all the way from the wooden bridge to the Alfie Byrne road, narrowing the lane.

In the eastbound lane, coming up to Blackbanks, there is a sunken section of the cyclelane that can unsettle a fast moving bike.

The new tarmac going from the causeway to the new section up past St Annes is great but its very wide and dedicated to cyclists. I think that this could be shared with Pedestrians as there is plenty of room. They're using it anyway as the walk up the causeway is very popular. I hate ambiguity and the current arrangement is just going to promote people walking in other sections of the cycleway.

Is there a public consultation to propose that these deficiencies be addressed or is it down to the old 'get onto your local representative' route?