Are there too many weather warnings?

BarryD2

_Dara_ wrote: »

The ideal scenario is that the emergency services are needed as little as possible because rescue work carries a lot of risk even if the personnel are highly trained. It’s also the ideal that they are just needed for unavoidable accidents. To wilfully put yourself in harm’s way because “Shur, we can be rescued” is the height of ignorance and selfishness. A total lack of regard for the safety of those who are obligated to help you.

True, to wilfully put yourself in harm’s way because “Shur, we can be rescued” is the height of ignorance and selfishness. But there's a very grey and movable line between these scenarios. The ONLY people who can make a judgement as to what they are doing is safe or not, are the individuals involved. That's the only way these things can work. It is not wise to try to go down a road where the 'authorities' tell people what they can and cannot do.

Dublinlady1513

Look people in Dublin, myself included said they'd never take a red warning serious again because of Ophelia. Yet here we are with a red warning and everyone taking it serious.

OldRio

But if the people are as thick as........ .

Im a retired Fireman and you wouldn't believe what some people get up to because 'I thought it would be grand'

Radharc na Sleibhte

Mooooo wrote: »

Same arguments were made with Ophelia and 4 people died

In the areas where a red warning was indeed warranted, yes.

d'Oracle

Dublinlady1513 wrote: »

Look people in Dublin, myself included said they'd never take a red warning serious again because of Ophelia. Yet here we are with a red warning and everyone taking it serious.

That's good.

But you should never have said you'd never take a red warning seriously in the first place.
A red warning is them telling you how bad they expect it to get.
It is a warning that the weather (which is often unpredictable because its the weather like) is predicted to be very bad.

The weather during ophelia was very bad, it just wasn't as widespread bad as was predicted.

Bottom line, a red warning is met eireann advising you to take actions to protect yourself and your stuff because the weather could be bad enough to hurt you or your stuff.

sdanseo

Leo isn't helping with his spin machine. He seems determined to get in front of a camera and give a press conference, of have someone give one, at every opportunity. He's desperate to be seen to do something (and says "eh" every 3 seconds which is horrendous to listen to).

As a result the public safety / awareness element of the weather warnings is perhaps being overstated.

It's impossible to compare, because since 1982 there really hasn't been a comparable weather event of the severity of Ophelia, or of the severity of Emma.

The bottom line as d'Oracle says really is treat the met.ie updates as solid advice and in so far as possible do what the government warnings say.

Interesting to note, no use of the Emergency Broadcast system this time.

Dublinlady1513

d'Oracle wrote: »

That's good.

But you should never have said you'd never take a red warning seriously in the first place.
A red warning is them telling you how bad they expect it to get.
It is a warning that the weather (which is often unpredictable because its the weather like) is predicted to be very bad.

The weather during ophelia was very bad, it just wasn't as widespread bad as was predicted.

Bottom line, a red warning is met eireann advising you to take actions to protect yourself and your stuff because the weather could be bad enough to hurt you or your stuff.

I agree with you and lesson learned here, I'm just posting because ive seen a poster saying nobody in his area will take a red warning serious again because they have no snow (for now) Everyone says this stuff until it happens then you follow procedure and buy all the bread available.

facehugger99

Mooooo wrote: »

Whatever you think yourself

It seems to be the logical conclusion of your argument, not mine.

Mooooo

facehugger99 wrote: »

It seems to be the logical conclusion of your argument, not mine.

Connecting unrelated incidents?, as I said whatever you think yourself

Mrcaramelchoc

Wtf?

d'Oracle

facehugger99 wrote: »

I have strong suspicions that there may be political interference in the country-wide red warning.

Easier for the Govt to give all the PS the couple of days off than be dealing with whining from the Unions as to why some people were getting a day off an not others.

There's been no logical reason given for a red warning to be in place for some counties that haven't had a flake of snow fall.

There will be tonnes of public servants working and trying to get to and from work during this mess.

You haven't a damn clue what you are on about.

Shout out to all the nurses, doctors, council maintenance staff, emergency responders, emergency coordination staff, vehicle support staff and all the other Public Servants travelling to and from work, facing tough decisions about when and how to get to work and working through all this.

Radharc na Sleibhte

d'Oracle wrote: »

There will be tonnes of public servants working and trying to get to and from work during this mess.

You haven't a damn clue what you are on about.

Shout out to all the nurses, doctors, council maintenance staff, emergency responders, emergency coordination staff, vehicle support staff and all the other Public Servants travelling to and from work, facing tough decisions about when and how to get to work and working through all this.

The private sector (myself included, even though there isn’t a flake here) are afraid to open (or closing shortly) for fear of putting their staff and customers in danger and the shytestorm that would happen if something did.

The public service even in the worse affected areas have no choice but to work. The same human beings with the same families living in the same places as us all have no choice but to put themselves in front and centre danger. Fair play to them I say.

Blud

Whatever about what happens tonight, there was no reason for a red warning yesterday in Dublin. Yes there was lying snow, but zero need for everything to grind to a halt.

ME have created a public expectation that red weather warnings mean offices close, which is dangerous. Why are people so incapable of getting by with s bit of caution? Are we completely useless? Dublin is a major city ffs.

There's 2 inches of snow on the ground for the majority of the city - the news is full of tourists dumbfounded in the city centre with not even restaurant to go to, and people stranded at airports with little enough snow that they could kick it off the runway.

We've turned so soft. It's not good.

jimmynokia

Blud wrote: »

Whatever about what happens tonight, there was no reason for a red warning yesterday in Dublin. Yes there was lying snow, but zero need for everything to grind to a halt.

ME have created a public expectation that red weather warnings mean offices close, which is dangerous. Why are people so incapable of getting by with s bit of caution? Are we completely useless? Dublin is a major city ffs.

There's 2 inches of snow on the ground for the majority of the city - the news is full of tourists dumbfounded in the city centre with not even restaurant to go to, and people stranded at airports with little enough snow that they could kick it off the runway.

We've turned so soft. It's not good.

There was NO RED WARNING yesterday its today.. Wise up.

Blud

jimmynokia wrote: »

There was NO RED WARNING yesterday its today.. Wise up.

Eh, there was for Dublin and Wicklow. 5am yesterday to book today. Keep your wise up good man.

GoldFour4

Blud wrote: »

Quick word on emergency services - a friend of mine is a nurse in Tallaght children's hospital, she left home at 7am this morning on foot for her 8.30 shift, 90 minute walk in, will be in until 8.30 tonight in full knowledge that means staying in the hospital overnight tonight, with her own 4 kids at home with their dad. Incredible dedication.

Also baffles me that the nurses there will be staying in the hospital overnight while the doctors and consultants doing the same shifts are being ferried to local hotels. Nurses treated as second class citizens for no good reason.

Some nurses have been sent to hotels too.

optogirl

Blud wrote: »

Whatever about what happens tonight, there was no reason for a red warning yesterday in Dublin. Yes there was lying snow, but zero need for everything to grind to a halt.

ME have created a public expectation that red weather warnings mean offices close, which is dangerous. Why are people so incapable of getting by with s bit of caution? Are we completely useless? Dublin is a major city ffs.

There's 2 inches of snow on the ground for the majority of the city - the news is full of tourists dumbfounded in the city centre with not even restaurant to go to, and people stranded at airports with little enough snow that they could kick it off the runway.

We've turned so soft. It's not good.

There is a major storm on the way - it hasn't hit yet. A lot of businesses in city centre will have made a judgement call based on the ability to get home from rather than into work.

Skedaddle

Ireland sits in an extremely temperate weather zone and gets very rare falls of snow in populated areas.

We do not have the infrastructure to deal with this - that includes state infrastructure, cars fitted with snow chains, winter tyres, specialist snow clearing equipment and so on.

We don't have the infrastructure because you cannot justify spending probably hundreds of millions of € on equipment that would get used at most a couple of days once a decade in many cases. It would be sitting around rusting in sheds for most of its life.

Add to that Irish drivers are unfamiliar with snowy conditions and our emergency services will never have dealt with this before in many cases and will have had no opportunities to train for it because the conditions are so rare here.

There's a major and unusual snow storm due to arrive / arriving imminently things have been shut down in preparation for that. Tourists from countries with consistent snowfall ranting and raving about it on TV is irrelevant. Also there's relatively little snow on the ground in central Dublin and central Cork because they're urban heat islands. Public transport tends to have to not just go to the city centre and drive around in a circle of O'Connell Street and College Green or up and down Patrick's Street and the South Mall. It has to deal with suburban and outer suburban areas that are snow bound at present.

Also, again the drivers and equipment is not really setup for dealing with these conditions as we don't normally experience them.

It's exactly the same situation in England - they're not really geared up for this kind of stuff at all. They're even running out of natural gas today, which is very worrying.

Short of there being some kind of permanent change to weather patterns where this becomes a regular occurrence, we will not be in any position to prepare for these kinds of events much more than we do.

There's no point in beating ourselves up because we don't handle these events as well as Chicago or Sweden. We never will because we rarely have to.

Just enjoy the snow day, keep warm and deal with it!

actaphobia

I think people are still getting used to the warning systems

They make a lot of sense - and in fairness, we have only had two major warnings so far - Ophelia and this. So I don't think we have too many.

jimmynokia

Blud wrote: »

Eh, there was for Dublin and Wicklow. 5am yesterday to book today. Keep your wise up good man.

OK well you decide then when alerts should be pushed you seem to know it all..:rolleyes:

Blud

optogirl wrote: »

There is a major storm on the way - it hasn't hit yet. A lot of businesses in city centre will have made a judgement call based on the ability to get home from rather than into work.

Did you even read my post? I was talking about the warning that was issued for yesterday, 5am yesterday to book today. No need for it.

BarryD2

Another problem with these colour coded weather warnings is that there are several grades and the differences just tend to pass the average citizen by.

Before they brought these in, the forecaster might say e.g. 'there'll be gales on the Irish Sea' and we knew to expect a windy/ breezy day.

Now it's a YELLOW or ORANGE or whatever warning and these pile up after a while. So nervous members of the public are frightened by these warnings whilst the rest just learn to ignore them.

It's a bad idea overall, too coarse a measure and too many grades. I know ME have been criticised in the past because people said they weren't warned, when in fact they were, if they bothered to listen properly. But this system tips things too far the other way.

LastLagoon

Johnny Dogs wrote: »

As was said earlier, the people issuing the warnings walk a fairly thin tight rope. No warning for somewhere that got Snow? Whinging.

Warnings for areas that ended up gettingt none. Whinging.

If it saved one lifeit was worth it.

You’d have to drive blindfolded to have any risk here at the moment
Been following the predictions here since last week and at no stage has there been much talk of anything for the NW,don’t see what changed last night,it’s genuinely a joke that the schools are off here today (tmrw another matter) and that’s on top of them getting the day AFTER Ophelia off also even though it was a complete nothingburger on the day too (no issue with the red and closures on the day of Ophelia even though it was nothing here)

Radharc na Sleibhte

BarryD2 wrote: »

Another problem with these colour coded weather warnings is that there are several grades and the differences just tend to pass the average citizen by.

Before they brought these in, the forecaster might say e.g. 'there'll be gales on the Irish Sea' and we knew to expect a windy/ breezy day.

Now it's a YELLOW or ORANGE or whatever warning and these pile up after a while. So nervous members of the public are frightened by these warnings whilst the rest just learn to ignore them.

It's a bad idea overall, too coarse a measure and too many grades. I know ME have been criticised in the past because people said they weren't warned, when in fact they were, if they bothered to listen properly. But this system tips things too far the other way.

I suppose, maybe in their defence, they have to speak to us all like we are gobdaws because of the few gobdaws in our society that would pass no heed to an orange warning say. If they spoke to us all like normal people, maybe all the gobdaws would end up injuring or killing themselves and others. Even with a red warning in treacherous areas, you still get a gobdaw or two I’m sure.

My argument with this particular red warning was that it’s certainly hasn’t been, is not currently, nor as far as I can see will it be, a nationwide event, but we shall see.

drunkmonkey

Nanny state gone mad, politicians will pay dearly for this especially Leo and Ross if they’ve got this wrong, not doubting some areas we’ll be covered but telling everyone to be indoors by 4 and not to come out until 3 tomorrow seems like utter madness right now.
Hopefully my barkeep isn’t as soft as these pair, heading for a pint around 5ish.

optogirl

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Nanny state gone mad, politicians will pay dearly for this especially Leo and Ross if they’ve got this wrong, not doubting some areas we’ll be covered but telling everyone to be indoors by 4 and not to come out until 3 tomorrow seems like utter madness right now.
Hopefully my barkeep isn’t as soft as these pair, heading for a pint around 5ish.

it's not martial law - it's ultimately up to you whether you want to go out in it but the advice is mainly to not drive in a blizzard - the storm has not landed yet and is aswell as the current snow which is already making several parts of the country treacherous.

Shadylou

SleetAndSnow wrote: »

people in my area saying there was no need and they could have gone to work today (cork city) and be home by 6 and be fine.. I give up

as far as todays weather, the kids could've gone to school and I could've gone to work quite happily and be in no danger.....I think the warning should've started a lot later

SkepticQuark

Shadylou wrote: »

as far as todays weather, the kids could've gone to school and I could've gone to work quite happily and be in no danger.....I think the warning should've started a lot later

Yeah to be fair in the Tipp Town areas the snow is in the air now but haven't seen any accumulation since Tuesday night.... Snow has mostly thawed.

jim-mcdee

SleetAndSnow wrote: »

people in my area saying there was no need and they could have gone to work today (cork city) and be home by 6 and be fine.. I give up

I think the country has gone mad with these weather alerts. I appreciate the 3 days off work, but then everything is closed. Trains were running 30 mins late yesterday and there was only an inch or two of snow on the ground. Waited 20 mins for a LUAS. It was cold but can a LUAS not run properly in cold weather? Or is is just the drivers see snow and then ring in 'ah snowed in here, must be a good 2cm on the ground. cant get the car out'. There were an elderly pair beside me absolutely freezing waiting for it to come. Ridiculous.

drunkmonkey

optogirl wrote: »

it's not martial law - it's ultimately up to you whether you want to go out in it but the advice is mainly to not drive in a blizzard - the storm has not landed yet and is aswell as the current snow which is already making several parts of the country treacherous.

It sure sounds like martial law when your have the commander and chiefs telling you what to do.
“Several parts of the country” what ever happened to deciding for yourself, the is nanny state.
Not everywhere needed to close. We’ll see what happens this evening but right now a nationwide stay indoors warnings seems stone crazy.