Crib Controversy at Beaumont Hospital

Odhinn

server down wrote: »

You did in fact condemn catholic iconography because of the previous abuses. You also seem to think that a crib is catholic. It isn’t.

I haven't actually commented on the crib. I'm indifferent to it one way or the other.

What I stated about catholic iconography was
"In a country where there are large numbers of people who have been instituionally abused, had their names blackened by the church, been disenfrachised and raped, should it suprise you at all that some don't want reminders of that?"

Those imprisoned in institutions would have had such symbols surrounding them. If they associate that with the abuse, its hardly suprising, is it?

splinter65

Odhinn wrote: »

Not everything can be reported as a crime in law.

The Irish constitution preserves my right to express my religion.

Army_of_One

DickSwiveller wrote: »

You really are just a gang of bullies.

lulz:rolleyes::rolleyes:

Your ignorance and bigotry doesn't stand up to scrutiny.

You call it bullying,I call it shining a torch under the rock and watching the cockroaches squirm.

Again I'll ask if any religious and scientific people (peterpiper has gone to ground) if they would shine their scientific minds on the statements the bible make and try and add it up.

the_pen_turner

splinter65 wrote: »

The Irish constitution preserves my right to express my religion.

yes and so it should .
that works both ways too

server down

Odhinn wrote: »

I haven't actually commented on the crib. I'm indifferent to it one way or the other.

What I stated about catholic iconography was
"In a country where there are large numbers of people who have been instituionally abused, had their names blackened by the church, been disenfrachised and raped, should it suprise you at all that some don't want reminders of that?"

Those imprisoned in institutions would have had such symbols surrounding them. If they associate that with the abuse, its hardly suprising, is it?

This thread is about a crib. It’s not about other catholic iconography - I could of course give a faurjy detailed answer to why we shouldn’t be deleting any iconography or statuary from history because then you end up with a blank slate a la the Khmer Rouge bit this thread is merely about a crib.

Do keep up.

DickSwiveller

Army_of_One wrote: »

lulz:rolleyes::rolleyes:

Your ignorance and bigotry doesn't stand up to scrutiny.

You call it bullying,I call it shining a torch under the rock and watching the cockroaches squirm.

Again I'll ask if any religious and scientific people (peterpiper has gone to ground) if they would shine their scientific minds on the statements the bible make and try and add it up.

Forget it. You're far too intolerant. Go back to watching some more Dawkins videos.

server down

Army_of_One wrote: »

lulz:rolleyes::rolleyes:

Your ignorance and bigotry doesn't stand up to scrutiny.

You call it bullying,I call it shining a torch under the rock and watching the cockroaches squirm.

Again I'll ask if any religious and scientific people (peterpiper has gone to ground) if they would shine their scientific minds on the statements the bible make and try and add it up.

And again I’ll direct you to read a biography about Maxwell.

server down

DickSwiveller wrote: »

Forget it. You're far too intolerant. Go back to watching some more Dawkins videos.

To be fair Dawkins doesn’t use terms like Flying Spaghetti Monster.

This modern atheism is a much lower level of intellect.

DickSwiveller

server down wrote: »

Lol. Dawkins doesn’t use terms like Flying Spaghetti Monster. This is a much lower level of intellect.

He exhibits the same sneering arrogance. A horrible trait.

Army_of_One

server down wrote: »

And again I’ll direct you to read a biography about Maxwell.

feck off I'm not reading a book. Already have johanne kepler biography under my belt .

How about you do it?

Come on explain how you apply science to the statements in the bible.

EDIT:go with something benign..noahs ark ?

server down

Army_of_One wrote: »

feck off I'm not reading a book. Already have johanne kepler biography under my belt .

How about you do it?

Come on explain how you apply science to the statements in the bible.

I’m not a believer which is why I suggested you read a book about Maxwell. You anti crib fanatics think that your form of atheism (really anti-theism or anti Catholicism) is the only game in town. It isn’t. Even Dawkins likes some forms of some Christianity - not unsurprisingly for a little Englandsr its Anglicanism.

Since you are reading Keple. He was also religious so you could try and understand how and why he could be both religious and scientific. There’s a long answer to that - the Christian churches weren’t as unscientific as claimed.

This is about a crib though.

Army_of_One

server down wrote: »

I’m not a believer which is why I suggested you read a book about Maxwell. You anti crib fanatics think that your form of atheism (really anti-theism or anti Catholicism) is the only game in town. It isn’t. Even Dawkins likes some forms of some Christianity - not unsurprisingly its Anglicanism.

Since you are reading Kepler then he was also religious so you could try and understand how and why he could be both religious and scientific there’s a long answer to that - the Christian churches weren’t as unscientific as claimed.

This is about a crib though.

nice ninja edit :rolleyes:

Kepler used his religion to make and understand science. He didn't use science to try and understand his religion.

Because deep down he knoew it wouldn't stand up to scrutiny.

server down

Army_of_One wrote: »

nice ninja edit :rolleyes:

Kepler used his religion to make and understand science. He didn't use science to try and understand his religion.

Because deep down he knoew it wouldn't stand up to scrutiny.

I often edit for clarity.

Actually he did both - like a lot of religious scientists he saw science as illuminating God’s plan.

Army_of_One

DickSwiveller wrote: »

Forget it. You're far too intolerant. Go back to watching some more Dawkins videos.

lulz:rolleyes:
and again you won't answer anything asked of you..why is that?

PeterParker957

65% of Nobel laureates (rising to 73% in Medicine) describe themselves as Christian.

I'd hate to be so arrogant as to accuse Nobel laureates of being stupid and delusional.

Army_of_One

server down wrote: »

I often edit for clarity.

maybe ..I seen the original post.

Anyways as a non-believer , with what science you know...explain something from the bible that makes sense.

DickSwiveller

Army_of_One wrote: »

lulz:rolleyes:
and again you won't answer anything asked of you..why is that?

Because I'm not interested. This thread has nothing to do with bible interpretation. Unfortunately, you're intolerance is getting the better of you. Take a breather.

Army_of_One

DickSwiveller wrote: »

Because I'm not interested. This thread has nothing to do with bible interpretation. Unfortunately, you're intolerance is getting the better of you. Take a breather.

haha still won't answer..off ye go

Army_of_One

server down wrote: »

To be fair Dawkins doesn’t use terms like Flying Spaghetti Monster.

This modern atheism is a much lower level of intellect.

Actually the spagetti monster is at the height of intellectualism.

it was created to combat the fuktarness of the religious in the states trying to get creationalism added to the school curriculum as an alternative to science.

Earth created in 7 days ...AS FACT...fuk off lol.

Mind you that might explain why the religious won't answer my question of using scinece to explain the bible

splinter65

the_pen_turner wrote: »

yes and so it should .
that works both ways too

Absolutely it does.
It’s a pity that it needs to be pointed out though.

JenovaProject

Army_of_One wrote: »

why the religious won't answer my question of using scinece to explain the bible

Because its nothing to do with the thread topic?
Also I'm not sure the "religious" know what you mean by "scinece"
Somebody is so angry they've forgotten how to spell,or as you may say "triggered" or "butthurt" or fcuking "lulz".
There is a real world outside the internet,perhaps its worth seeking it out.

Kimbot

Army_of_One wrote: »

haha still won't answer..off ye go

MOD "off ye go", dont be telling other users to go anywhere and don't post in this thread again.

Bubbaclaus

Army_of_One wrote: »

Earth created in 7 days ...AS FACT...fuk off lol.

That's fact. Says it right there in the bible which is "the word of god"

Only 5,000 years ago too believe it or not. Some known ancient civilisations pre date the creation of earth. Which means that Neil Armstrong probably wasn't the first man on the moon.

Unbelievable Jeff.

Odhinn

server down wrote: »

This thread is about a crib. It’s not about other catholic iconography - I could of course give a faurjy detailed answer to why we shouldn’t be deleting any iconography or statuary from history because then you end up with a blank slate a la the Khmer Rouge bit this thread is merely about a crib.

Do keep up.

A person made a comment in the flow of the thread. Should you object to a post, the report function is available.

Billy86

PeterParker957 wrote: »

65% of Nobel laureates (rising to 73% in Medicine) describe themselves as Christian.

I'd hate to be so arrogant as to accuse Nobel laureates of being stupid and delusional.

I looked that up and couldn't find it anywhere, do you have a link? Particularly for the medicine bit - given how widely practiced that is around the world, that's an awfully high number.

PeterParker957

I can't post the link on phone but Google "Christian Nobel Laureates" and it's there.

Apologies I misread last night it's 62% Medicine. The 70%+ is another prize. Still high .

Hotblack Desiato

splinter65 wrote: »

Abortion was legalized in the UK at 12 weeks and it’s now 24 weeks.

Not true. It was originally 28 weeks.

splinter65

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

Not true. It was originally 28 weeks.

28 weeks. How lovely. And 24 weeks now?
Oh well that’s ok then.

Hotblack Desiato

DickSwiveller wrote: »

This reminds me of the proposal for 'a moment of reflection' instead of the Angelus, a typically meaningless, soulless, empty proposal from the atheist mob.

No, replacing it with something else was a stupid idea, but like the Dail prayer doing the sensible thing and removing it entirely was seen as a step too far and would provoke the tiny but very vocal religious extremist lobby.

If people want a 'moment of reflection' what's stopping them turning the radio or TV off? If they want to hear a call to prayer of a particular faith they can play a recording. It is not the function of a state broadcaster to instruct people to pray. It's not the function of a hospital to promote religion, either...

Hotblack Desiato

splinter65 wrote: »

28 weeks. How lovely. And 24 weeks now?
Oh well that’s ok then.

Yes, yet again the slippery slope fallacy is exposed as a pack of nonsense. You're welcome.

RasTa

If the Catholics get their crib then we have to give muslims a call to prayer over the PA during Ramadan.

Hans Bricks

Are militant atheists and secularists the most insufferable bores on the planet ?

Even as a young atheist, I can recognize that religious iconography can be as much cultural as it is religious. Christmas season and the crib being a prime example.

But I suppose the analogous fantasy scenario of a cossetted minority group member complaining to hospital staff over well meaning seasonal xmas paraphernalia, gives the miserable, microwave xmas dinner pissants an excuse to project their cultural cringe and self loathing.

Fann Linn

RasTa wrote: »

If the Catholics get their crib then we have to give muslims a call to prayer over the PA during Ramadan.

And....

DickSwiveller

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

No, replacing it with something else was a stupid idea, but like the Dail prayer doing the sensible thing and removing it entirely was seen as a step too far and would provoke the tiny but very vocal religious extremist lobby.

If people want a 'moment of reflection' what's stopping them turning the radio or TV off? If they want to hear a call to prayer of a particular faith they can play a recording. It is not the function of a state broadcaster to instruct people to pray. It's not the function of a hospital to promote religion, either...

No-ones being instructed to pray. No one is promoting religion. Christ Almighty....

BorneTobyWilde

Nativity Scene

AudreyHepburn

I honestly believe this is a classic case of looking for something to be offended by.

It’s a crib, it just sits there and looks nice. If you’re of a different faith or no faith then surely its presence should have no affect you.

MrPudding

Odhinn wrote: »

Why, whats there?

Duh. Brown people.

Sweetemotion wrote: »

His funny what?

MrP

DickSwiveller

MrPudding wrote: »

Duh. Brown people.



His funny what?

MrP

Oh no, is this another "'everyone who disagrees with me is a nazi" merchant?

PeterParker957

DickSwiveller wrote: »

MrPudding wrote: »

Duh. Brown people.



His funny what?

MrP

Oh no, is this another "'everyone who disagrees with me is a nazi" merchant?

Have they ever had a different response???

I have zero problems with Coptic Christians, Greek Orthodox, Sikhs, Hindus, Buddhists and Christians from Africa and South America.

Almost all are varying shades of brown. So shove the racism accusations eh ?

Bubbaclaus

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

I honestly believe this is a classic case of looking for something to be offended by.

It’s a crib, it just sits there and looks nice. If you’re of a different faith or no faith then surely its presence should have no affect you.

This thread is about people being offended at the lack of a crib. People are so offended about the crib not being on the ward that they started a petition.

I'd be interested of how many people that have signed the petition with their outrage are even patients on the ward.

AudreyHepburn

Bubbaclaus wrote: »

This thread is about people being offended at the lack of a crib. People are so offended about the crib not being on the ward that they started a petition.

I'd be interested of how many people that have signed the petition with their outrage are even patients on the ward.

It’s a thread about the presence of the crib being threatened because some one of a different faith put in a complaint about it. The crib is there, the hospital staff have been ordered to remove and unfortunately an awful lot of people on this thread seem to think that this acceptable.

It’s Christmas, it’s a crib and shockingly there are likely many patients and staff that want it left where it is. It’s doing no harm at all.

A lot of folks on this thread would do well to remember that the atheist viewpoint is not the most important or even the most enlightened viewpoint and that they are not the only ones entitled to have their voices heard. That’s the point of this thread.

Bubbaclaus

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

A lot of folks on this thread would do well to remember that the Catholic viewpoint is not the most important or even the most enlightened viewpoint and that they are not the only ones entitled to have their voices heard. That’s the point of this thread.

I've fixed your post to better represent why this discussion is happening at all.

DickSwiveller

Bubbaclaus wrote: »

I've fixed your post to better represent why this discussion is happening at all.

The endless sneering continues. They can't help themselves.

AudreyHepburn

Bubbaclaus wrote: »

I've fixed your post to better represent why this discussion is happening at all.

That’s the problem with militant atheism- you whine and moan and stamp your feet like children demanding that your voice be listened to, that you be respected and catered for, that your rights and wishes be valued and acted on yet you refuse to extend the same courtesy to everyone else.

You can’t have it both ways and childishly changing peoples posts does nothing to help your so called intelligent and enlightened stance.

AudreyHepburn

DickSwiveller wrote: »

The endless sneering continues. They can't help themselves.

I sneered at no-one. I gave my opinion, nothing more.

DickSwiveller

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

I sneered at no-one. I gave my opinion, nothing more.

That comment was aimed at BubbaClaus

AudreyHepburn

DickSwiveller wrote: »

That comment was aimed at BubbaClaus

Ah ok - threads like this it can be very hard to know sometimes!

Bubbaclaus

DickSwiveller wrote: »

The endless sneering continues. They can't help themselves.

You gave your real reasons earlier in the thread. You hate other religions.

DickSwiveller

Bubbaclaus wrote: »

You gave your real reasons earlier in the thread. You hate other religions.

Do I? That's news to me. Thanks for letting me know.

Bubbaclaus

DickSwiveller wrote: »

The endless sneering continues. They can't help themselves.

Also...to add...I assume you feel the original comment is sneering also since it says the exact same thing word for word?