Crib Controversy at Beaumont Hospital

eviltwin

How long is a crib on display, a few weeks? Not worth getting upset about. It will be gone in a week or two.

server down

baylah17 wrote: »

No I don't think it would be cruel
It is not the place of the state to endorse one or any religion over another.
Religion is something that belongs in the private sphere
And by the way I'm 53 and my mother is battling cancer

So endorse them all. Hindu shrines. Christian chapels etc.

Taco Chips

Deleted User wrote: »

Eh, when Irish people get on board the Atheist Express to the extent that they want to spend billions of euro buying the hospitals from the religious institutions which founded and continue to own them, "beggars can't be choosers" applies to the Irish state. Where are atheists going to find those billions to buy out religious ownership of the vast majority of hospitals and schools in Ireland? Well?

Cheeky, delusional bastards telling the RC that religious symbols are not acceptable on RC property. Brazen. Build your own hospitals on your own land and then you have a point.

Who do you think pays for the staffing, supply and running of the hospital? Cop on to yourself. The Irish state owes absolutely nothing to the RCC after the decades of misery they inflicted on people here.

baylah17

Deleted User wrote: »

baylah17 wrote: »

There is no place for religious icons in any state funded institution
End of

Eh, when Irish people get on board the Atheist Express to the extent that they want to spend billions of euro buying the hospitals from the religious institutions which founded and continue to own them, "beggars can't be choosers" applies to the Irish state. Where are atheists going to find those billions to buy out religious ownership of the vast majority of hospitals and schools in Ireland? Well?

Cheeky, delusional bastards telling the RC that religious symbols are not acceptable on RC property. Brazen. Build your own hospitals on your own land and then you have a point.

If the RC paid back what they owe this state for the crimes against humanity that comitted they wouldn't own a matchbox
And it is and always has been the state that had funded these hospitals

Taco Chips

Taco Chips wrote: »

Who do you think pays for the staffing, supply and running of the hospital? Cop on to yourself. The Irish state owes absolutely nothing to the RCC after the decades of misery they inflicted on people here.

Right. So the RC stops allowing the state to use its property for hospitals, and the state is going to have to spend billions to build a slew of state-owned hospitals... all because some atheist fundamentalists object to religious symbolism on religious-owned property? That's some costly "principled" stand from atheists. They own the hospitals no matter how much you want to deny it, and the state is very lucky financially not to be forced to build its own hospitals.

baylah17

Deleted User wrote: »

Taco Chips wrote: »

Who do you think pays for the staffing, supply and running of the hospital? Cop on to yourself. The Irish state owes absolutely nothing to the RCC after the decades of misery they inflicted on people here.

Right. So the RC stops allowing the state to use its property for hospitals, and the state is going to have to spend billions to build a slew of state-owned hospitals... all because some atheist fundamentalists object to religious symbolism on religious-owned property? That's some costly "principled" stand from atheists. They own the hospitals no matter how much you want to deny it, and the state is very lucky financially not to be forced to build its own hospitals.

No
The state just needs to nationalize these institutions
Take them back
As reparations for the crimes against humanity comitted by the Roman Catholic crime syndicate against the people of this Republic.

server down

baylah17 wrote: »

If the RC paid back what they owe this state for the crimes against humanity that comitted they wouldn't own a matchbox
And it is and always has been the state that had funded these hospitals

The religious supplied free or cheap labour.

Why do I get the feeling I am listening an orange order bigot circa 1950 when I’m listening to a new atheist.

Jerichoholic

Athiests spend more time trying convince you that God doesn't exist than any priest would bother telling you he does.

baylah17

server down wrote: »

baylah17 wrote: »

If the RC paid back what they owe this state for the crimes against humanity that comitted they wouldn't own a matchbox
And it is and always has been the state that had funded these hospitals

The religious supplied free or cheap labour.

Why do I get the feeling I am listening an orange order bigot circa 1950 when I’m listening to a new atheist.

Free or cheap labour
You mean the female slaves of the Magdalene laundered?
And no Orangeman has ever been as bigoted as John Charles McQuaid and his blackshirted disciples

baylah17

server down wrote: »

baylah17 wrote: »

If the RC paid back what they owe this state for the crimes against humanity that comitted they wouldn't own a matchbox
And it is and always has been the state that had funded these hospitals

The religious supplied free or cheap labour.

Why do I get the feeling I am listening an orange order bigot circa 1950 when I’m listening to a new atheist.

How much cheap labour did it take to throw the murdered bodies of hundreds of babies and children into a septic tank in Tuam?

Jerichoholic

baylah17 wrote: »

How much cheap labour did it take to throw the murdered bodies of hundreds of babies and children into a septic tank in Tuam?

What has this got to do with a crib beside a door?

Sweetemotion

Lau2976 wrote: »

Usually things like this don’t bother me. I grew up in a multifaith home where religion wasn’t pushed on me.

But this irks me a lot. My mother’s jewish and I know that she finds it more upsetting then she’s willing to admit that the religious beliefs of some (mainly Christians) is constantly shoved down her throat. Yes it’s a catholic country and yes it’s happened for years but why do we have to continue?

All or none should be catered for and it’s impractical to think that all can be.

I understand the argument of elderly people but why should elderly people of a Christian faith get that comfort and not those of other faiths? It might be a catholic country but plenty of citizens are not Christian and they deserve to be afforded the same level of comfort.

It says in the article that the HSE respects the spiritual practice of all. Everybody is afforded the same level of comfort.

If anybody is being denied spiritual comfort. It's the Christians for the sake of being non PC.

Do you think that is fair?

server down

baylah17 wrote: »

How much cheap labour did it take to throw the murdered bodies of hundreds of babies and children into a septic tank in Tuam?

Look if you are the kind of orange order fanatic who hates cribs because they are catholic why not pretend they are Protestant cribs and you’d feel better about yourself?

baylah17

baylah17 wrote: »

If the RC paid back what they owe this state for the crimes against humanity that comitted they wouldn't own a matchbox
And it is and always has been the state that had funded these hospitals

If the state paid for its own education system in the first place rather than relied on religious institutions to provide the property while turning a blind eye to abuses by those institutions the state's status as a victim entitled to compensation might have some merit. If anything, the state is more guilty as it had a representative mandate from the people yet still collaborated in everythng.

baylah17

Sweetemotion wrote: »

Lau2976 wrote: »

Usually things like this don’t bother me. I grew up in a multifaith home where religion wasn’t pushed on me.

But this irks me a lot. My mother’s jewish and I know that she finds it more upsetting then she’s willing to admit that the religious beliefs of some (mainly Christians) is constantly shoved down her throat. Yes it’s a catholic country and yes it’s happened for years but why do we have to continue?

All or none should be catered for and it’s impractical to think that all can be.

I understand the argument of elderly people but why should elderly people of a Christian faith get that comfort and not those of other faiths? It might be a catholic country but plenty of citizens are not Christian and they deserve to be afforded the same level of comfort.

It says in the article that the HSE respects the spiritual practice of all. Everybody is afforded the same level of comfort.

If anybody is being denied spiritual comfort. It's the Christians for the sake of being non PC.

Do you think that is fair?

Yes
Spiritual belief is a private affair and has no place being endorsed by the state
Hospitals are places where science is harnessed to cure not a place where one groups superstitions should be given prominence

baylah17

Deleted User wrote: »

baylah17 wrote: »

If the RC paid back what they owe this state for the crimes against humanity that comitted they wouldn't own a matchbox
And it is and always has been the state that had funded these hospitals

If the state paid for its own education system in the first place rather than relied on religious institutions to provide the property while turning a blind eye to abuses by those institutions the state's status as a victim entitled to compensation might have some merit. If anything, the state is more guilty as it had a representative mandate from the people yet still collaborated in everythng.

Such is the delusion that has led to some of the worst crimes against humanity ever comitted being defended
Thus is the mouthpiece for Opus Dei

Lau2976

Sweetemotion wrote: »

It says in the article that the HSE respects the spiritual practice of all. Everybody is afforded the same level of comfort.

If anybody is being denied spiritual comfort. It's the Christians for the sake of being non PC.

Do you think that is fair?

I was referring to what some posters had said about it being of comfort to the elderly. It’s a comfort those of other faiths aren’t provided because there is no religious idols of those faiths in the hospital.

Christians aren’t denied that. And to think they are shows a total lack of understanding of what those of none Christian faiths experience in Ireland which is little to no tolerance or acceptance by institutes that are meant to be secular.

server down

The cribs should stay for tradition.

I do believe however that our hospitals should cater to all faiths and none. They aren’t just “scientific establishments” but places where people are born, are sick and die. Giving some people spiritual comfort where needed, from a rabbi, catholic priest, vicar, Hindu priest or Muslim cleric (etc) is a duty of care in my opinion.

And to annoy the utter cock waddles of the new atheist movement let’s have religious symbols too, so they can get ever more fanatically annoyed and we can laugh at them.

server down

baylah17 wrote: »

Such is the delusion that has led to some of the worst crimes against humanity ever comitted being defended
Thus is the mouthpiece for Opus Dei

Oh ffs. Please read some history.

server down

Lau2976 wrote: »

I was referring to what some posters had said about it being of comfort to the elderly. It’s a comfort those of other faiths aren’t provided because there is no religious idols of those faiths in the hospital.

Christians aren’t denied that. And to think they are shows a total lack of understanding of what those of none Christian faiths experience in Ireland which is little to no tolerance or acceptance by institutes that are meant to be secular.

So do you want to deny Christians this comfort or allow Jewish religious symbols as well? If you think it’s a comfort why not both.

splinter65

Army_of_One wrote: »

I really don't think pandering to delusional adults is the way to go.

That’s true. But have you sought treatment for your delusions?

Sweetemotion

Lau2976 wrote: »

I was referring to what some posters had said about it being of comfort to the elderly. It’s a comfort those of other faiths aren’t provided because there is no religious idols of those faiths in the hospital.

Christians aren’t denied that. And to think they are shows a total lack of understanding of what those of none Christian faiths experience in Ireland which is little to no tolerance or acceptance by institutes that are meant to be secular.

The HSE respects all religions are muslims force fed during ramadan are jews denied non kosher food?

Is there any Iman or Kohen denied entry to Beaumount?

kuang1

Sweetemotion wrote: »

The HSE respects all religions are muslims force fed during ramadan are jews denied non kosher food?

Is there any Iman or Kohen denied entry to Beaumount?

I don't know what a jew-denied-non-kosher-eater is.

Sweetemotion

kuang1 wrote: »

I don't know what a jew-denied-non-kosher-eater is.

Good for you.

kuang1

Sweetemotion wrote: »

Good for you.

Clearly I haven't left the parish of termonfeckin my whole life.

I can give you a detailed rundown of a tracker mortgage though!

splinter65

baylah17 wrote: »

Such is the delusion that has led to some of the worst crimes against humanity ever comitted being defended
Thus is the mouthpiece for Opus Dei

Communist regimes murdered 60 million people worldwide in the 20th century alone.
This is the mouthpeace for Atheism.

splinter65

Itzayana Enough Floor wrote: »

Great.

I'll do a act of contrition by proxy on his behalf.

I’m just back from my Christmas Eve mass. Huge Cathedral packed to the rafters with families.
Beautiful holy mass
Beautiful singing of carols and hymns
Baby baptised after mass
Baby Jesus carried to the crib.
Archbishop just told us Croke Park has been deemed insufficient for the amount of people who want to go to the Popes Mass in Dublin ( not even official yet ) so it’s going to be in Phoenix Park!
You heard it here first folks!
Merry Christmas everyone and may the baby Jesus bless you all!
( it is so ducking great being a Catholic).

kuang1

Brilliant.

Happy Christmas Catholics!

Edit: Oops.
And non catholics too of course.

splinter65

RasTa wrote: »

I had my first stay in hospital a few months back. Why was there people in normal clothes going around trying to hand out communion in the wards every day?

Blanchardstown hospital. Is this the same everywhere?

They were only giving communion to the Catholics. Did you not want the bedridden Catholics to get communion?

splinter65

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

Yes because when you are in a hospital with someone who is seriously ill you have the time to get offended by a few fcuking plastic figures

Some people will be lifting their heads up from their own deathbeds to express how offended they are by the curtains around the bed.

Sofiztikated

splinter65 wrote: »

I’m just back from my Christmas Eve mass. Huge Cathedral packed to the rafters with families.
Beautiful holy mass
Beautiful singing of carols and hymns
Baby baptised after mass
Baby Jesus carried to the crib.
Archbishop just told us Croke Park has been deemed insufficient for the amount of people who want to go to the Popes Mass in Dublin ( not even official yet ) so it’s going to be in Phoenix Park!
You heard it here first folks!
Merry Christmas everyone and may the baby Jesus bless you all!
( it is so ducking great being a Catholic).

To be fair, I'm an atheist, and even worse, a Protestant atheist, and I knew that about 5 weeks ago.

https://www.irishnews.com/news/2017/11/17/news/phoenix-park-will-host-pope-francis-farewell-mass--1189450/

JupiterKid

RasTa wrote: »

I had my first stay in hospital a few months back. Why was there people in normal clothes going around trying to hand out communion in the wards every day?

Blanchardstown hospital. Is this the same everywhere?

Yep, happened to me too when I was in A&E on a Sunday morning. I politely declined.

splinter65

Sofiztikated wrote: »

To be fair, I'm an atheist, and even worse, a Protestant atheist, and I knew that about 5 weeks ago.

https://www.irishnews.com/news/2017/11/17/news/phoenix-park-will-host-pope-francis-farewell-mass--1189450/

Well what were you keeping it to yourself for?!? You do know the GAA moved the All Ireland Hurling Final date for the first time in over 100 years?!?

splinter65

JupiterKid wrote: »

Yep, happened to me too when I was in A&E on a Sunday morning. I politely declined.

They won’t know your not a Catholic until they ask.
Thank you for being polite. It’s a difficult job.

Bubbaclaus

Why do people that believe in a god go to hospital? If they believe god causes everything then surely the doctors and treatments are useless.

Sofiztikated

RasTa wrote: »

I had my first stay in hospital a few months back. Why was there people in normal clothes going around trying to hand out communion in the wards every day?

Blanchardstown hospital. Is this the same everywhere?

Probably because they were priests, or what have ye.

Same for Presbyterians, or Church of Ireland, although that tends to be a once a week job.

Last time I had an extended stay in hospital, I had the local minister visit me. I'm down on the records as Presbyterian, I've changed it a couple of times to "none," but it still happens.

He popped in, chatted for a bit, asked if I wanted to pray. I told him I wasn't a believer, that it was an error, but my Catholic wife wouldn't mind an oul pray. He went over to her (she was outside the ward, giving me a bit of space with a visitor), they had a little chat, they bowed their heads, about 30 seconds later they raised their heads, they shook hands, and off he went.

El_Duderino 09

RobertKK wrote: »

Some people like being offended so they can complain they are offended.

Do you mean the ones who are offended by the crib or the ones offended by objecting to the crib?

All the talk all about old folks and their need of cribs to be happy about their imminent death as if they’re just simple fools who need to be placated. Have the old folks said they need cribs or is this a case of being offended on their behalf? A kind of conservative ‘virtue signaling’?

Sweetemotion

Bubbaclaus wrote: »

Why do people that believe in a god go to hospital? If they believe god causes everything then surely the doctors and treatments are useless.

If they believe god caused everything then surely they would believe god created doctors to help them heal.

Sofiztikated

Bubbaclaus wrote: »

Why do people that believe in a god go to hospital? If they believe god causes everything then surely the doctors and treatments are useless.

My mother in law is a nurse, and is a believer.

My wife's uncle is a doctor, and is a believer.

A belief in a higher power doesn't mean you don't believe in science and medicine.

Zebra3

Jerichoholic wrote: »

Anyone outraged by a crib is nothing but a sad attention seeker.

Anyone supporting the placing of religious crap on state property is nothing but a sad attention seeker.

Many elderly people have suffered greatly at the hands of religious terror organisations over the years, be it being raped, enslaved, or tortured and probably don't want to see that sort of crap about the place.

Do the Scientologists get to place their propaganda in our hospitals as well?

Optimalprimerib

They give out about a crib, what about Christmas trees. Should every public place refrain from decorating during a public holiday? Christmas, Halloween etc in this all inclusive world of ours.

Edit: I just read the article. There's one in the church, where it should be, so it's a non-story.

Sweetemotion

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Do you mean the ones who are offended by the crib or the ones offended by objecting to the crib?

All the talk all about old folks and their need of cribs to be happy about their imminent death as if they’re just simple fools who need to be placated. Have the old folks said they need cribs or is this a case of being offended on their behalf? A kind of conservative ‘virtue signaling’?

I would say the one virtue signaling was the person who made the decision too remove the crib over one complaint. Deny the majority just to please the minority.

1000 signatures v one complaint.

Sofiztikated

Sweetemotion wrote: »

I would say the one virtue signaling was the person who made the decision too remove the crib over one complaint. Deny the majority just to please the minority.

1000 signatures v one complaint.

They're only removing the crib from the foyer, there's still the one in the chapel.

But then again, most of the people coming about it being removed wouldn't notice that, it's not like they ever really go to chapel.

splinter65

Sofiztikated wrote: »

They're only removing the crib from the foyer, there's still the one in the chapel.

But then again, most of the people coming about it being removed wouldn't notice that, it's not like they ever really go to chapel.

I’ve been in the chapel of every hospital I’ve ever been in either as a patient or a visitor.
I’ve yet to find one empty.
What always moves me is the amount of posts you’ll read that start with “I’m not a believer myself but....”.
The amount of proper atheists/agnostics about vast outweighs the vicious anti-theists posing as A/A.
That’s good.

Sweetemotion

Sofiztikated wrote: »

They're only removing the crib from the foyer, there's still the one in the chapel.

But then again, most of the people coming about it being removed wouldn't notice that, it's not like they ever really go to chapel.

I'd say most of the people complaining about it being moved are doing so because it's being moved over one complaint and are tired of the bull from the always offended agenda that is taking over society. And nothing to do with going to the chapel or not.

El_Duderino 09

Sweetemotion wrote: »

I would say the one virtue signaling was the person who made the decision too remove the crib over one complaint. Deny the majority just to please the minority.

1000 signatures v one complaint.

They can go to the chapel if they’re looking for religious symbolism. It’s not being banned from the hospital, it’s still in the chapel. Should we have displays for all religious festivals of all kinds throughout the hospital? Or maybe the religious should d corset the chapel however they like and leave the rest of the hospital alone.

El_Duderino 09

Sweetemotion wrote: »

I would say the one virtue signaling was the person who made the decision too remove the crib over one complaint. Deny the majority just to please the minority.

1000 signatures v one complaint.

They can go to the chapel if they’re looking for religious symbolism. It’s not being banned from the hospital, it’s still in the chapel. Should we have displays for all religious festivals of all kinds throughout the hospital? Or maybe the religious should decorate the chapel however they like and leave the rest of the hospital alone.

splinter65

I’m hoping that 2018 is going to be the year when everyone else choruses “nobody gives a bollix how you feel” every time someone takes offense.
I’m going to lead the offensive (pardon the pun).

El_Duderino 09

Sweetemotion wrote: »

I'd say most of the people complaining about it being moved are doing so because it's being moved over one complaint and are tired of the bull from the always offended agenda that is taking over society. And nothing to do with going to the chapel or not.

The always offended? Like the ones who don’t care about cribs or religion and are offended that the crib is removed?

El_Duderino 09

splinter65 wrote: »

I’m hoping that 2018 is going to be the year when everyone else choruses “nobody gives a bollix how you feel” every time someone takes offense.
I’m going to lead the offensive (pardon the pun).

So your saying that nobody should care about those who’s feelings were hurt that the crib was removed?