Liverpool FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours 2018

qm1bv4p8i92aoj

gafferino wrote: »

Is Jurgen Klopp now in his element?
Date published: Tuesday 9th January 2018 4:40

http://www.football365.com/news/f365-says-is-jurgen-klopp-liverpool-not-in-his-element-now

“It is not a Big Six – it is a three and a three. It feels to me like City, United and Chelsea are breaking away from Liverpool, Arsenal and Tottenham for pure economic reasons,” said former Liverpool managing director Christian Purslow on Sky Sports. “Manchester United are shopping at Harrods – I do not know why he is making excuses by the way – Liverpool need to start shopping at Harrods rather than just selling the good ones.”

Purslow was at least half-right, which some Liverpool supporters might consider above his usual average. The latest annual Deloitte money league has Liverpool ranked fifth in the Premier League. They also ranked fifth for their wage bill in 2016/17, £64m behind Manchester United. It might seem hard to believe having just paid a world-record fee for a defender, but Liverpool do not have the economic might of the Manchester clubs and Chelsea. These are facts, as Rafael Benitez might say.

The sale of Philippe Coutinho also nods to that. Many Liverpool supporters are disillusioned with the sale of a key player, but the truth is that this was a club accepting reality, not admitting weakness. There is a financial food chain within football that is possible to postpone – as Liverpool did in the summer – but never indefinitely. Barcelona buy from Liverpool, Liverpool buy from Southampton and Southampton buy from Anderlecht or Porto. The Premier League’s financial clout allows our clubs to jump the queue ahead of the biggest and best in other countries, but nobody jumps above the apex predators.

Add Coutinho’s South American heritage (like many others at Barcelona) to his desire to win league titles and Champions League trophies to conjure a losing battle; Coutinho wanted Barcelona and was not prepared to entertain any other future. At that point it became when, not if, he would leave.

Part of the frustration amongst supporters surrounds the timing of the move. Should Liverpool slip away from a top-four place and fall back into the Europa League, that decision will be pinpointed as the moment things began to unravel. It is indeed a gamble.

And yet we have seen at Arsenal and Southampton this season the dangers in keeping unwanted players. Alexis Sanchez’s form has been inconsistent at best, while Southampton squeezed an extra £20m for Virgil van Dijk but are 17th in the Premier League and crying out for new players. Van Dijk started two league wins for Southampton in his last year at the club.

Instead, Liverpool sold a player for his highest possible price and avoided the scenario of a want-away player spoiling the morale of the squad. That isn’t illogical; quite the opposite. Liverpool have received the second highest transfer fee ever for a player who wouldn’t get in a World XI.

The problem comes not in the sale, but how Liverpool reinvest the proceeds. If the signings of Van Dijk and Naby Keita represent that reinvestment, there is again logic to that strategy. Liverpool’s central defence is not fit for purpose, Jordan Henderson is a central midfielder with limitations and Emre Can may well join Juventus on a Bosman deal in the summer. These are problem positions.

If Liverpool and Jurgen Klopp will indeed have a bumper pot of money to spend, this club knows only too well the dangers of shopping with full pockets and empty stomachs. The funds from the sale of Luis Suarez were squandered, while Liverpool waited a matter of minutes before putting aside 70% of their Fernando Torres money to buy Andy Carroll.

There is also the problem of other clubs knowing Liverpool have money to spend, and increasing their asking prices accordingly. Yet that seems like a bit of a myth. Liverpool could have afforded far more than £35m on Mohamed Salah last summer, and yet Roma agreed to that fee. The use of effective scouting techniques and efficient negotiations can help clubs avoid paying over the odds. If a selling club does indeed begin to behave unreasonably, a sensible and well-structured club should have two or three alternatives. In the case of Van Dijk, Klopp simply decided it was him or nothing, and Liverpool backed him.

Of course, Klopp is the key individual in all this. After all, this is precisely the situation for which he was appointed by Liverpool. Make players better, sell them high and maintain improvement to bridge the gap to the financial elite. Klopp has made that his forte.

In the summer of 2011, Klopp sold Nuri Sahin to Real Madrid and signed Ilkay Gundogan for £5m before retaining the Bundesliga title at Borussia Dortmund ahead of Bayern Munich. A year later, he sold Shinji Kagawa to Manchester United and bought Marco Reus for £15m, subsequently taking Dortmund to the Champions League final. In the summer of 2013, he sold Mario Gotze to Bayern Munich and signed Henrikh Mkhitaryan and Pierre-Emerick Aubameyang for the same money. Klopp did not just accept the reality in Germany, he embraced and thrived in it.

Crucially, none of those players taken from Dortmund by apex predators in Germany, England or Spain ever performed as magnificently away from Klopp. There is a certain paradox to clubs paying vast fees for players based on their performance under other coaches with different approaches to both football and man-management.

Klopp would always back himself to bring the best out of his signings. Warm relationships with those Klopp coached at Mainz or Borussia Dortmund have survived long beyond his or their departure from the clubs. In an interview with Goal’s Melissa Reddy, Klopp’s anger at a member of staff for not knowing that Andrew Robertson was due to become a father is mentioned. If you do not connect with a player, how can you expect him to commit to your vision? The minutiae matters.

Klopp is an exception in the modern game. While three or four years is the typical expiry date on any manager at a top-six club, Klopp stayed at 1. FSV Mainz 05 for seven years, spent the same amount of time at Dortmund and has stated a desire to do the same at Anfield. “If at the end of my career I only got to coach Mainz, Dortmund and Liverpool, then it will certainly have been three fantastic clubs,” he said in November 2016.

Clearly much depends on the club as well as the manager, and doubts remain in some circles about the efficacy of Liverpool’s transfer structure. Yet when Klopp was appointed, Ian Ayre was at pains to say that the manager would have the final decision on signings. That would seem to replicate Dortmund’s own hierarchy of sporting director Michael Zorc and two or three others who would decide upon targets. Again, a player would not be bought if Klopp said no.

Some of Liverpool’s succession planning is already in place. Salah was bought to create a front three that would allow Coutinho to drop deeper and become less vital. It is worth noting that Coutinho has failed to start 25 Premier League matches since February 2016. Liverpool’s record? Won 16, Drawn 7, Lost 2. Keita was also bought a year in advance because Liverpool were so sure that their manager was committed to the long-term picture.

The panic among Liverpool supporters – or at least a section of them – is forgivable. We have been hardwired to believe that any player leaving is an admission of weakness, and that only by tempting high-profile replacements can a club hope to keep up with the Joneses.

Yet amidst the understandable worries should be an appreciation that their manager is not panicking. Liverpool may have lost Coutinho but they have gained the opportunity to see the very best of Klopp. In fact, he’s in his element.

Well, that's a great read now.

Feel a lot better about the Countinho sale after reading that.

BorneTobyWilde

Lanzini's stock at Liverpool would rise. How much is that Lanzini in the window?

SlickRic

we have the perfect setup to trouble City.

that doesn't mean we're favourites or anything, but we shouldn't be afraid of them.

I'd ignore the 5-0 from earlier in the season. We were actually well in the game at the time of the sending off, even though they were winning 1-0. in fact, 1-0 was an unfair reflection on what had happened in the game.

City struggle when their fullbacks are pushed back, and basically have to worry about going backwards, not only forwards. Palace, even though the team isn't great, got at them because they've Zaha in particular, and even Townsend caused them problems. Wolves and Bristol City have caused them problems by merely going at them and not being afraid - something we also will not be at the weekend.

i think we're set for one of the games of the season, and I'd bet that Guardiola sees this as one of the toughest games in the league calendar. it's one thing to kick them like Spurs tried to, or be conservative enough like Utd, or try to just insanely organised like Chelsea were...it's another when a team will come at them with proper pace and quality out wide.

now, we just need Salah to definitely be fit...

yourdeadwright

Mr.H wrote: »

Am I the only one who thinks anyone who will "Phil the role" will be someone who plays deeper. As in a center mid?

Klopp talked for ages about moving coutinho deeper and that's why we bought Salah. So surely any replacement will be someone who has the attributes to fit a midfield 3. Rather than a #10

I think u'v hit the nail on the head, it'll add to our game management tro have an extra midfielder , but it always means we need proper cover for Mane,Salah and Booby , we need to get at least 2 more multifunctional forwards, or one proper striker and one proper winger to cover/compete for these places,

yourdeadwright

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

Lanzini's stock at Liverpool would rise. How much is that Lanzini in the window?

no where near what we need, he just isn't good enough, Id expect this signing if Rodgers was still here, if he was 20 maybe buyt he's 25 next month he just isn't good enough ,

Agent Coulson

Mr.H wrote: »

Am I the only one who thinks anyone who will "Phil the role" will be someone who plays deeper. As in a center mid?

Klopp talked for ages about moving coutinho deeper and that's why we bought Salah. So surely any replacement will be someone who has the attributes to fit a midfield 3. Rather than a #10

I said from day one Keita we were linked was being bought as a replacement for Coutinho.


Some laughed and some got quiet abusive but didn't look at the bigger picture that he wasn't being signed to be a Coutinho Mark2 but as a system replacement someone to sit in that deeper midfield 3 role on not in the 10 or wide left role and I still stick by that.

Utopia Parkway

SlickRic wrote: »

we have the perfect setup to trouble City.

that doesn't mean we're favourites or anything, but we shouldn't be afraid of them.

I'd ignore the 5-0 from earlier in the season. We were actually well in the game at the time of the sending off, even though they were winning 1-0. in fact, 1-0 was an unfair reflection on what had happened in the game.

City struggle when their fullbacks are pushed back, and basically have to worry about going backwards, not only forwards. Palace, even though the team isn't great, got at them because they've Zaha in particular, and even Townsend caused them problems. Wolves and Bristol City have caused them problems by merely going at them and not being afraid - something we also will not be at the weekend.

i think we're set for one of the games of the season, and I'd bet that Guardiola sees this as one of the toughest games in the league calendar. it's one thing to kick them like Spurs tried to, or be conservative enough like Utd, or try to just insanely organised like Chelsea were...it's another when a team will come at them with proper pace and quality out wide.

now, we just need Salah to definitely be fit...

True but then I remember that we don't have Coutinho now (who nearly always seemed to play well against City) so we will pretty much have zero creativity in midfield. So we're depending on the 3 up front produce something by themselves which they can do to be fair to them. The midfield now will just be asked to be solid.

I can't help but be less confident that I was a week ago though.

BorneTobyWilde

Jorginho Of Napoli
would suit also. He'd show Henderson and Can a thong or two.

Harry Palmr

Agent Coulson wrote: »

I said from day one Keita we were linked was being bought as a replacement for Coutinho.


Some laughed and some got quiet abusive but didn't look at the bigger picture that he wasn't being signed to be a Coutinho Mark2 but as a system replacement someone to sit in that deeper midfield 3 role on not in the 10 or wide left role and I still stick by that.

Yep this is what I thought as well, he's been fine with a "fab four" (as little as they actually played together!) but it's not what his ultimate vision for the team is. As much as Klopp will have like what Coutinho brought in attack it seemed he was agnostic about him in terms of the wider tactical set up. With him gone and Keita coming he can rebalance the side from defence-30/attack-70 effectiveness to something closer to 50/50 so we might see fewer 4-0, 5-1 type score-lines next season but also fewer 0-0, 0-1 1-1 type frustrations. A front man will be bought but maybe it won't be the hyped big price name player but someone who can augment the attack in rotation - ie what Sturridge should be doing but can't.

Agent Coulson

Agent Coulson wrote: »

I said from day one Keita we were linked was being bought as a replacement for Coutinho.


Some laughed and some got quiet abusive but didn't look at the bigger picture that he wasn't being signed to be a Coutinho Mark2 but as a system replacement someone to sit in that deeper midfield 3 role on not in the 10 or wide left role and I still stick by that.

So if we get another forward / 10 ish player in they won't be replacing coutinho?

But keita is the coutinho replacement even though he'll operate where Can does?

gimli2112

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

Jorginho Of Napoli
would suit also. He'd show Henderson and Can a thong or two.

I don't know if this is a typo or a double entendre

x43r0

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

Jorginho Of Napoli
would suit also. He'd show Henderson and Can a thong or two.

The dirty fecker

Mr.H

Augeo wrote: »

So if we get another forward / 10 ish player in they won't be replacing coutinho?

But keita is the coutinho replacement even though he'll operate where Can does?

Coutinho was a quality player that was being fitted into a team. Allowances where made because of how good he was. In an ideal set up Klopp probably never would have signed Coutinho.

We wont be replacing him because players like him dont fit Klopps system. Now that he is gone I can see us changing more to Klopps vision.

Of course I could be wrong but its the impression I have gotten and explains why we dont have anyone lined up

......I reckon we don't have anyone lined up as coutinho leaving this window wasn't expected.

He also excelled in the front 3 in klopps system.

Paully D

https://twitter.com/tompeck/status/951042917270982656

ricero

yourdeadwright wrote: »

no where near what we need, he just isn't good enough, Id expect this signing if Rodgers was still here, if he was 20 maybe buyt he's 25 next month he just isn't good enough ,

Exactly i would see it as a sign of going nowhere if we were to sign a player like lanzini. Simply not good enough.

Starting to think that we will sign nobody else this window.

Nerdlingr

Anyone think Klopp could go back for his favourite in the summer .... Mario Goetze??
Or would he see it too much of a risk considering all the injuries/problems he's had the last few years.
He loves Goetze, best player he ever coached apparently. Knows the system, still young, suits the position, would jump at the chance to come to england and revive his career (you would think). He was playing well for dortmund this season apparently before he got injured again.

BorneTobyWilde

Lorenzo Insigne is a like for like for Coutinho. So many options so much money, it's a sin if we sign no one this window.

Agent Coulson

I see we are now being linked with and are supposed to have already met Ceballos for talks.

Potential Underachiever

Agent Coulson wrote: »

I see we are now being linked with and are supposed to have already met Ceballos for talks.

A link ?

Is it credible or some nobody with 23 followers on Twitter?

martyos121

Well that is very surprising. He just signed for Madrid last summer and on top of that he’s not meant to have the best attitude towards training, that type of player is the antithesis to Klopp’s philiosophy. Unless he believes he can put him on the right track, which he’s capable of.

Still, I’d give that a 0.5/10 chance of happening.

BorneTobyWilde

Ceballos is what exactly? He gets a goal a season if he's lucky. How does he replace Coutinho, Lorenzo Insigne gets you 15 goals a season, has 10 already this season.

BorneTobyWilde

It's a joke if we buy potential, we need a proven first team player, not Aquaman 2.0

Charlie19

MD1990 wrote: »

Wasn't Coutinho scouted for years by the club I thought before joining?

Couldn't tell you tbh, I can't remember much about the player till he signed.

Sappy404

The Coutinho sale further explains why we bought Alex Oxelade-Chamberlain in August. I doubt we're signing anyone to replace Phil in this window. We'll rehabilitate Lallana and maybe bring in Keita due to Hendo's injury and Can & Wijnaldum's form, but AOC is filling Coutinho's squad place IMO. Hopefully we use the money to upgrade our goalkeeper and bring in a better striker than Sturridge though.

For the record I think Lemar will go to Arsenal in the next couple of weeks.

Grayditch

Sappy404 wrote: »

For the record I think Lemar will go to Arsenal in the next couple of weeks.

I'd be with you on that one.

BorneTobyWilde

Back training it seems

BorneTobyWilde

https://www.sportsmole.co.uk/football/liverpool/news/firmino-liverpool-not-same-without-coutinho_315937.html?utm_source=twitter_links&utm_medium=sm_headlines&utm_campaign=twitter

Firmino is very much odd man out at Liverpool now.

BorneTobyWilde

Harry Palmr

Oh good, the season is saved!

Meanwhile there is no end of intrigue about the Jason Burt "mystery man" that Klopp is after - reddit has decided it's Julian Brandt, RAWK has gone for Pulisic. Hopefully if it's either it's the former.

Agent Coulson

Harry Palmr wrote: »

Oh good, the season is saved!

Meanwhile there is no end of intrigue about the Jason Burt "mystery man" that Klopp is after - reddit has decided it's Julian Brandt, RAWK has gone for Pulisic. Hopefully if it's either it's the former.

Honigstein say he doesn't think it's Pulisic but whoever it is, is an immediate target.

qm1bv4p8i92aoj

Harry Palmr wrote: »

Oh good, the season is saved!

Meanwhile there is no end of intrigue about the Jason Burt "mystery man" that Klopp is after - reddit has decided it's Julian Brandt, RAWK has gone for Pulisic. Hopefully if it's either it's the former.

Jaysus Harry can ya give the Sturridge sniping a rest for awhile. Between yourself Coulson and Turd it's getting a little sad and tiresome at this stage.

He is still a Liverpool player whether ye like it or not.

Harry Palmr

I hope Sturridge kicks a hat-trick against West Brom in the Fa Cup 4th round

yourdeadwright

Studge is done has been for years, no where near the player he was, his game time and wages should be giving to someone else,
this is left field but with Can going, Milner getting on and Henderson midfield marmite ,Id personally love to see us offer a cheeky bid for a one Jack Whilsire,
He's contract is coming to end and he needs a move to kick start him again, I think he plays better the better the players around him are, he can pass,he can tackle and he can control a tempo, I know he's been pretty injury prone but id love to see if Jurgen could help him reach the high ceiling of talent he most certainly has,

Nerdlingr

ah jaysus no.

qm1bv4p8i92aoj

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Studge is done has been for years, no where near the player he was, his game time and wages should be giving to someone else,
this is left field but with Can going, Milner getting on and Henderson midfield marmite ,Id personally love to see us offer a cheeky bid for a one Jack Whilsire,
He's contract is coming to end and he needs a move to kick start him again, I think he plays better the better the players around him are, he can pass,he can tackle and he can control a tempo, I know he's been pretty injury prone but id love to see if Jurgen could help him reach the high ceiling of talent he most certainly has,

I think he might be done as well at Liverpool, obviously doesn't suit Klopps style and has his obvious fitness issues but fecking hell the 3 lads do some amount of sniping and little digs at him

We get it lads ye don't like him.

Nearly getting to stage where I hope he gets his move so the little digs in nearly every post would stop!

Talisman

MD1990 wrote: »

Wasn't Coutinho scouted for years by the club I thought before joining?

Rafa Benitez recommended Coutinho to Frank McParland in the 2010/11 season.

Liverpool's Philippe Coutinho makes Inter Milan regret his 2013 transfer (ESPN, January 2017)

Rafael Benitez was still serving Liverpool even when he wasn't Liverpool manager. Shortly after he had been sacked by Inter Milan in December 2010, the former Reds boss picked up the phone and called his close friend Frank McPartland who, at the time, was the head of Liverpool's Kirkby academy

During their conversation, Benitez spoke highly of Inter youngster Philippe Coutinho, a player he took a liking to during his short stay at the San Siro. The Spaniard urged Liverpool to go after Coutinho and told McPartland that he had an advantage because the Italian club had not yet realised his potential.

At the end of the call, McPartland informed Liverpool's director of football Damien Comolli of Benitez's suggestion. Comolli quickly dispatched Liverpool's scouts to cast their eyes over the young Brazilian and they came back with extremely positive reports.

"In the spring of 2012, the owners told me that we had a limited spending budget per player of €10 million and we could only sign players who were under 21," Comolli told ESPN FC.

"I said to the scout: 'Coutinho becomes our priority' because we were looking for a wide player to replace Dirk Kuyt. He [Coutinho] was not available because they transferred him to Espanyol [on loan] later on.

"We didn't even know he was that good -- it was difficult to watch him play because he was never playing at Inter. We knew about him, we knew he was good, but it was only when Rafa said he's going to be world-class. When somebody like Rafa says a thing about a player like this, you listen.

"The head of recruitment said he was the best we could get. But I was sacked, then Kenny [Dalglish] was sacked."

Under a new regime, Liverpool eventually did sign Coutinho, on Jan. 30, 2013 for a fee of £8.5m. He would quickly display his talent on Merseyside and, four years later, reports of a big-money move to Barcelona were circling before he put pen to paper on a new five-year contract last week. To Inter, though, he's still the one that got away.

yourdeadwright

Nerdlingr wrote: »

ah jaysus no.

I just think if we get rid of Studge and some of the dead wood its worth taking a punt on one player who is super talented but lost there way and still young enough, Jack,Goteze that type ,
I'm by no means saying he should be Phils replacement

Turtyturd

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

‘And then they said I was second only to Aguero, and that Spurs should offer cash plus Harry Kane as a swap.’

qm1bv4p8i92aoj

Turtyturd wrote: »

‘And then they said I was second only to Aguero, and that Spurs should offer cash plus Harry Kane as a swap.’

It's a really weird obsession!

Turtyturd

Talisman wrote: »

Rafa Benitez recommended Coutinho to Frank McParland in the 2010/11 season.

Liverpool's Philippe Coutinho makes Inter Milan regret his 2013 transfer (ESPN, January 2017)

If ‘The Rodgers’ came out with that it’d be laughed at.

ERG89

Turtyturd wrote:

If The Rodgers came out with that it'd be laughed at.

I'm surprised Comolli hasnt came out to take credit for Coutinho & maybe Tim Sherwood aswell

Agent Coulson

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

I still can't believe you and me make about 4 times the money Kane and Loris make.


Can- Man I need to be in Italy.


Ings- Look I have a hand.

Mr.H

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Studge is done has been for years, no where near the player he was, his game time and wages should be giving to someone else,
this is left field but with Can going, Milner getting on and Henderson midfield marmite ,Id personally love to see us offer a cheeky bid for a one Jack Whilsire,
He's contract is coming to end and he needs a move to kick start him again, I think he plays better the better the players around him are, he can pass,he can tackle and he can control a tempo, I know he's been pretty injury prone but id love to see if Jurgen could help him reach the high ceiling of talent he most certainly has,

Your giving out about Sturridge due to his lack of game time because of injuries and in the same breath want us to sign Jack Wilshere........................ if there is a player that has less game time because of injuries than Sturridge, its Jack Wilshere

I would be really annoyed if we even tried to sign him

Turtyturd

F*ck off Jack.

Talisman

Mr.H wrote: »

Your giving out about Sturridge due to his lack of game time because of injuries and in the same breath want us to sign Jack Wilshere........................ if there is a player that has less game time because of injuries than Sturridge, its Jack Wilshere

I would be really annoyed if we even tried to sign him

Surely it's Danny Ings.

monkey9

martyos121 wrote: »

Coutinho started his LFC tenure with all the goal threat of Titus Bramble on ketamine and finished it scoring for fun. Salah started with us by scoring for fun, knowing our luck you just know it’s going to balance out. Yin and yang and all that.

That's absolutely fine. Once it balances out, then Real Madrid can make their 200 plus million euro offer.

yourdeadwright

Mr.H wrote: »

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Studge is done has been for years, no where near the player he was, his game time and wages should be giving to someone else,
this is left field but with Can going, Milner getting on and Henderson midfield marmite ,Id personally love to see us offer a cheeky bid for a one Jack Whilsire,
He's contract is coming to end and he needs a move to kick start him again, I think he plays better the better the players around him are, he can pass,he can tackle and he can control a tempo, I know he's been pretty injury prone but id love to see if Jurgen could help him reach the high ceiling of talent he most certainly has,

Your giving out about Sturridge due to his lack of game time because of injuries and in the same breath want us to sign Jack Wilshere........................ if there is a player that has less game time because of injuries than Sturridge, its Jack Wilshere

I would be really annoyed if we even tried to sign him

I know I know but I don't think Jack is done as a player yet but Studge , Mite sound silly but Studges injuries have taking more from his game than Jacks have ,

Turtyturd

90% of Wilshere’s game is rolling on the floor though.

Nerdlingr

Did ya watch Wilshere against us at the emirates? The lad was awful. Couldnt track back to save his life.
He may be talented , he may not. we'll probably never know because he's permanently injured.
One long ball over the top against palace and a goal against chelsea and the English press are salivating over a player who has consistently failed to deliver. England made a mistake naming him in their euro squad 2 years ago and will probably do the same for this WC. All based on some 6 year old myth that wilshere is the second coming of gazza.
Jack Wilshere should be nowhere near a Liverpool team. He wasnt even good enough for Bournemouth.