Liverpool FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours 2018

5starpool

theoneeyedman wrote: »

Why would he not play??
I agree it's nothing short of a disgrace how this has been handled by the FA, to have this hanging over the lads head is very unfair to say the least.
As I said during the week, the club's legal team should have been banging on the FA door on Monday saying 'get the finger out' or words to that effect.

If it is not resolved before the game on Sunday (and I hope it will be, one way or another), I think the club will play the cautious line just in case, hence not playing him.

I've no idea how long it can take to talk to a few players and officials and review video footage. Ridiculous. I still think that if there is uncertainty due to not being able to see his mouth, the FA will still see fit to find him guilty, just in case. Not that they should, but that they will.

Gbear

Potential Underachiever wrote: »

Highly talented might be a bit of a stretch, Michael Owen or Robbie Fowler he is not.

Footballers don't all have the same trajectory.

You might be forgetting that both of them were rubbish by the time they hit 26.

The vast majority of good attacking players are not ripping up trees at 20. Those with a huge amount of pace like Owen or Sterling, or are generally incredibly athletic, like Lukaku can shine earlier but most have to learn the game and grow into their bodies as professional athletes.

Looking at the likes of Torres, David Villa, Lewandowski, Cavani, Suarez - none of these guys were scoring 20 goals a season at PL level.
Many of them were playing in weaker leagues like the Segunda, the Dutch or Polish leagues but one thing they all were doing was getting full seasons under their belt.

I think Solanke probably needs a two year loan. I think we'd be better off with that sort of hands off development for these kinds of players. Or buyback clauses.

I get that we want them to get to grips with our systems but they need to play.

I'm sure if you gave Solanke a full season he'd do half decent - probably get more than 10 league goals. We're not in a position to offer that, though.

There may well be benefits to getting in the door with young players before they become superstars but not if they're not going to play. We've seen the same with Origi as well, I think.

Knex*

Lewandowski was brutal his first year at Dortmund. He was a running joke with how many chances he missed.

Tusky

Knex. wrote: »

Nothing new here, really, but just enforces that Coutinho was adamant about leaving.

https://twitter.com/AHunterGuardian/status/951801691048947712

We should have called his bluff. Absolutely no way he would have refused to play in a World Cup year. He should have been allowed to sign a contract now and move in summer, like Keita. We will finish this season on fewer points because he has left - that's pretty much a fact.

And other players can now follow Coutiniho's example in the future. Threaten to refuse to play and you get your move.

Osmosis Jones

Tusky wrote: »

We should have called his bluff. Absolutely no way he would have refused to play in a World Cup year.

He would have gone to the world cup and started every game regardless.

Tusky wrote: »

We will finish this season on fewer points because he has left - that's pretty much a fact.

Absolutely no way to prove this.

yourdeadwright

What's the story with the Bobby incident why don't the FA just come out and say something ?
It'll be just like us that he doesn't play till its sorted, like Matip last January and Sakho the season before

whatawaster

Osmosis Jones wrote: »

He would have gone to the world cup and started every game regardless.

People keep saying this, but if he wanted to go to the World Cup and perform and help Brazil win the thing, then it would be an incredibly stupid thing to do. To go into the biggest tournament in the world, possibly your only shot at it, undercooked and with no match fitness or form.

Tusky

Osmosis Jones wrote: »

He would have gone to the world cup and started every game regardless.

Possibly. And his value would have only gone one direction.

I don't believe he would have been happy not to play in the six months leading up to the World Cup though.

Absolutely no way to prove this.

There's no way to prove it but if you've watched Liverpool in recent seasons you'll have seen he often pops up with important goals or assists. You can't just take that out of a team and expect no negative consequence.

HandsomeBob

yourdeadwright wrote: »

What's the story with the Bobby incident why don't the FA just come out and say something ?
It'll be just like us that he doesn't play till its sorted, like Matip last January and Sakho the season before

Probably still waiting on the results from those expert lip readers they've employed previously

rossie1977

Tusky wrote: »

We should have called his bluff. Absolutely no way he would have refused to play in a World Cup year. He should have been allowed to sign a contract now and move in summer, like Keita. We will finish this season on fewer points because he has left - that's pretty much a fact.

And other players can now follow Coutiniho's example in the future. Threaten to refuse to play and you get your move.

Club is just trying to save face and they are using Klopp as the spokesman. Klopps last press conference or the one before it he clearly stated there was no issue with Coutinho and that he hoped he would be fit to play against city, now he is saying there was no way Coutinho would play despite the fact he had given 100% in every game this season.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Firminio against city? If he's fit and in the right frame of mind, absolutely he plays. Why wouldn't he?

It's not like a pending drug test where we could be seen to be having an unfair advantage.

qm1bv4p8i92aoj

Yah Countinho can fúck right off now after hearing that from Klopp.

Ball was definitely in our court though with denying him the transfer till the summer. No way was he gonna refuse to play and jeopardize his form heading into a massive World Cup for Brazil after the embarrassment of the previous one. Plus it transpires now that he is genuinely injured so he wouldn't have been available anyways till after the transfer window had slammed shut again. All of that combined with the length of his contract and probability of his value increasing after the world cup.....

He would have had to knuckle down and get on with it but he called our bluff.

Disappointing from the club that we didn't stand up to him and Barca.

Morzadec

Very relaxed about the Firmino situation now, we definitely eould have heard something by now if there was sime kind of solid evidence.

Of course he starts vs City

MD1990

tinpib wrote: »

Not attacking you MD199, just illustrating the point. What's good for the goose is good for the gander.

I get your point.

But I don't think it is exactly comparable. No doubt VVDs behaviour was poor too but
Southampton are fighting relegation we are in the CL knockouts.

Klopp basically saying today Coutinho wouldn't play anymore for us. I know this time he had an actual injury in Jan . unlike his back injury which cleared up straight away for Brazil back in Sept.

Mr.H

Tusky wrote: »

Possibly. And his value would have only gone one direction.

I don't believe he would have been happy not to play in the six months leading up to the World Cup though.



There's no way to prove it but if you've watched Liverpool in recent seasons you'll have seen he often pops up with important goals or assists. You can't just take that out of a team and expect no negative consequence.

Did he though??

Last season was the only time he scored more than 10 PL goals. He was going to again this season but still. He wasnt exactly a goal machine. As for assists 35 in 152 games??? in his whole time here he assisted in 35 goals. And he was here for the Suarez Sterling and Sturridge season!!

BorneTobyWilde

I'm sure Firmino will shart v City. We need him more than ever. Coutinho was having his best goal scoring season, of course there will be times we lose of draw because he is not there. We have the chance to replace him though, seems so silly not to.

Potential Underachiever

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

I'm sure Firmino will shart v City. We need him more than ever. Coutinho was having his best goal scoring season, of course there will be times we lose of draw because he is not there. We have the chance to replace him though, seems so silly not to.

Hopefully he will not follow through on that statement.

MD1990

Mr.H wrote: »

Did he though??

Last season was the only time he scored more than 10 PL goals. He was going to again this season but still. He wasnt exactly a goal machine. As for assists 35 in 152 games??? in his whole time here he assisted in 35 goals. And he was here for the Suarez Sterling and Sturridge season!!

Coutinho was nearly always brillant against the top 6.
Not just by goals & assists. He is a big loss but we have already prepared well with Keita in although not a direct replacement he ia huge improvement in midfield.

martyos121

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

I'm sure Firmino will shart v City. We need him more than ever. Coutinho was having his best goal scoring season, of course there will be times we lose of draw because he is not there. We have the chance to replace him though, seems so silly not to.

That’s one of the best typos I’ve ever seen on here.

Anyway, a loss to City will leave a huge brown stain on our season.

Mr.H

MD1990 wrote: »

Coutinho was nearly always brillant against the top 6.
Not just by goals & assists. He is a big loss but we have already prepared well with Keita in although not a direct replacement he ia huge improvement in midfield.

Listen I dont think we are stronger without him of course. He is a brilliant player who creates both space and opportunities and even when he is having an off day you wouldnt bet against him to do something unreal.

I am just saying in terms of his goals we are really only talking about replacing 10-13 goals a season. With Salah in the team we already look like we have more goals this second in the team than last season (with Phil and without Salah).

Mr.H

martyos121 wrote: »

That’s one of the best typos I’ve ever seen on here.

Anyway, a loss to City will leave a huge brown stain on our season.

Really???

Losing to a team running away with the league would be a huge stain???

A team who beat us 5-0???

Potential Underachiever

Mr.H wrote: »

Really???

Losing to a team running away with the league would be a huge stain???

A team who beat us 5-0???

He was referring to toby's typo, even though I'm sure it was intentional from that cunning linguist!

Mr.H

Potential Underachiever wrote: »

He was referring to toby's typo, even though I'm sure it was intentional from that cunning linguist!

Haha yea see I am a tw@

My broadband is down so Im frustrated trying to fix it so it completely went over my head.

Sorry Marty:o

MD1990

Mr.H wrote: »

Listen I dont think we are stronger without him of course. He is a brilliant player who creates both space and opportunities and even when he is having an off day you wouldnt bet against him to do something unreal.

I am just saying in terms of his goals we are really only talking about replacing 10-13 goals a season. With Salah in the team we already look like we have more goals this second in the team than last season (with Phil and without Salah).

I agree he isn't as big as loss as it has been mentioned.

Coutinho is a wonderful player to watch that adds to him being made out to be a slightly bigger loss than he really is.

Mane our POTY last year & Salah our POTY this season.

Harry Palmr

Tusky wrote: »

We will finish this season on fewer points because he has left - that's pretty much a fact.

Osmosis Jones wrote: »

Absolutely no way to prove this.

Tusky wrote: »

There's no way to prove it but if you've watched Liverpool in recent seasons you'll have seen he often pops up with important goals or assists. You can't just take that out of a team and expect no negative consequence.

from the echo - quote so you don't have to click that site.

In the 13 games Coutinho has started in the Premier League this season, Liverpool have picked up 24 points, averaging 1.8 points per game. They also average 2.2 goals scored per game, and concede 1.07.

In the nine games the South American hasn’t started this season, the Reds have won 20 points, an average of 2.2 points per game, and scoring an average of 2.33 goals. They do concede more however, at a rate of 1.22 per game.

Somewhat surprisingly, then, Liverpool win more points and score more goals without Coutinho than with.

How Liverpool fare with Coutinho
1.8 Points per game
2.2 Goals scored per game
1.07 Goals conceded per game

This does not offer conclusive evidence, of course. Of the games Liverpool have faced with Coutinho in the side, opposition includes Manchester United, Tottenham, Chelsea and Arsenal – four of the toughest fixtures.

And while the 4-0 demolition of Arsenal came without their playmaker, other wins in his absence included kinder games such as Crystal Palace, Huddersfield, Stoke and West Ham.

How Liverpool fare without Coutinho
2.22 Points per game
2.33 Goals scored per game
1.22 Goals conceded per game

The Champions League offers a gloomier picture of Liverpool’s prospects without Coutinho, although it is unfair to draw conclusions with such a small sample size.

He did, however, feature in both 7-0 wins over Maribor and Spartak Moscow, with the only game he missed coming in the routine 3-0 victory against the Slovenians at Anfield.

Obviously Past Performance Is No Guarantee of Future Results, none the less interesting.

x43r0

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

I'm sure Firmino will shart v City

Late to the party on this but I always did see similarities with Lineker whenever I saw Firmino play

x43r0

x43r0 wrote: »

Late to the party on this but I always did see similarities with Lineker whenever I saw Firmino play

Has he taken a **** on the pitch yet?

x43r0

RoboKlopp wrote: »

Has he taken a **** on the pitch yet?

Not to my knowledge but if Toby's prediction materialises on Sunday....

garra

rossie1977 wrote: »

Club is just trying to save face and they are using Klopp as the spokesman. Klopps last press conference or the one before it he clearly stated there was no issue with Coutinho and that he hoped he would be fit to play against city, now he is saying there was no way Coutinho would play despite the fact he had given 100% in every game this season.

Cool story. Perhaps not actually true though. Is it not possible that Klopp was speaking with forked tongue on the first occasion (to protect the player in case he did stay) and telling the truth on the second occasion?

I would be shocked if it was not Klopp's decision to sanction the sale after numerous discussions with Phil.

I have to laugh at some of the conspiracy theorists who posit every bad event at the feet of the owners, sometimes it needs to be called out for what it is though, baloney!!!

BorneTobyWilde

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2018/01/12/big-clubs-dont-sell-january-have-liverpool-sold-philippe-coutinho/

BorneTobyWilde

brevity

I don't buy into those "% won, %lost" statistics. I think the don't represent the whole picture.

Fromvert

brevity wrote: »

I don't buy into those "% won, %lost" statistics. I think the don't represent the whole picture.

We can all watch the games and see the quality he beings to the team.
But I'd also like to see it broken down further to the strength of opposition/home or away games etc

5starpool

brevity wrote: »

I don't buy into those "% won, %lost" statistics. I think the don't represent the whole picture.

Weren't they being used to prove we were better without Suarez at one stage.

Harry Palmr

I think it was Gerrard

Grayditch

So is Firmino able to play?

brevity

5starpool wrote: »

Weren't they being used to prove we were better without Suarez at one stage.

Probably.

In my old age I'm getting fed up the metadataisation(TM) of football.

One_Of_Shanks

garra wrote: »

I would be shocked if it was not Klopp's decision to sanction the sale after numerous discussions with Phil.

I have to laugh at some of the conspiracy theorists who posit every bad event at the feet of the owners, sometimes it needs to be called out for what it is though, baloney!!!

Of course it was Klopps decision, no doubt about it.
FSG wouldn't sell him from under him, this being the same FSG who told Barca to piss off in the last window?
It was Klopp's decision alright, some people just love to blame the big bad wolf.

Anyway, its done now, time to move on.

I'm wondering does VD start Sunday?
Klopps PR sort of hinted he might not.

Harry Palmr

Grayditch wrote: »

So is Firmino able to play?

Yes. Why wouldn't he?

Riesen_Meal

https://mobile.twitter.com/Red_Neighbours/status/951776286883680257

Rag-Thor

Fair play to him, definitely will become a fan favourite with this kind of stuff...

Turtyturd

Agent Coulson wrote: »

Maybe Sturridge will do a Coutinho and help buy himself out of his contract is he wants to play that much.

10 million from the buying club, 10 million from Subway and 10 million from Missy Elliot.

Utopia Parkway

Balague and Gary Neville having a row on twitter is most pleasing to me.

Tusky

Mr.H wrote: »

Did he though??

Last season was the only time he scored more than 10 PL goals. He was going to again this season but still. He wasnt exactly a goal machine. As for assists 35 in 152 games??? in his whole time here he assisted in 35 goals. And he was here for the Suarez Sterling and Sturridge season!!

You're including his stats when he was 20 years old - that's unfair. What we do know is that Coutiniho's goal output improved full every season he was here. And in the last three seasons his goals and assists have been vital.

His record:

12/13 Games: 13 Goals: 3 Ratio: 4.3 games
13/14 Games:37 Goals: 5 Ratio: 7.4 games
14/15 Games:52 Goals: 8 Ratio: 6.5 games
15/16 Games:43 Goals: 12 Ratio: 3.5 games
16/17 Games:36 Goals: 14 Ratio: 2.5 games
17/18 Games:11 Goals: 9 Ratio: 1.2 games

Agent Coulson

Tusky wrote: »

You're including his stats when he was 20 years old - that's unfair. What we do know is that Coutiniho's goal output improved every season he was here. And in the last three seasons his goals and assists have been vital.

His record:

12/13 Games: 13 Goals: 3 Ratio: 4.3 games
13/14 Games:37 Goals: 5 Ratio: 7.4 games
14/15 Games:52 Goals: 8 Ratio: 6.5 games
15/16 Games:43 Goals: 12 Ratio: 3.5 games
16/17 Games:36 Goals: 14 Ratio: 2.5 games
17/18 Games:11 Goals: 9 Ratio: 1.2 games

Why?

You were judging Solanke and he is 20.

One_Of_Shanks

Turtyturd wrote: »

10 million from the buying club, 10 million from Subway and 10 million from Missy Elliot.

Going on your posts I'd say you'd lob in a few bob yourself!

Very early to judge Solanke.

I don't think it's doing him much good sitting on the bench most games though. Needs to be playing a bit more.

I'd imagine he could be loaned out next season which should hopefully help him.

Agent Coulson

RoboKlopp wrote: »

Very early to judge Solanke.

I don't think it's doing him much good sitting on the bench most games though. Needs to be playing a bit more.

I'd imagine he could be loaned out next season which should hopefully help him.

If you were 20 and getting game time at Liverpool as little as it is at the moment would you want to go out on loan with a lesser team and players or train with a Liverpool squad to prove you are good enough to play.


The lad is talented and I like that he backed himself to come to Liverpool.

All the talk when we signed him he would spend this season in the under 23's leading them in that age group's CL campaign.

Klopp saw him train and the lad never when near the under 23's that say a lot about him to me.

NukaCola

Solanke isn't currently good enough to be a starter or backup for a team pushing for top 4. Harsh but true IMO.

Plenty of potential there no doubt but he's a level below Origi now for example and even a good bit behind Origi at 20 in terms of experience. A loan elsewhere would be for the best. Unfortunately unless you are exceptional at that age and fit in relatively quickly, you are not starting many games for a team fighting for top 4. We don't really have time to see how good he could be by giving him the time and a decent run in the first team that he needs.

ardinn

NukaCola wrote: »

Solanke isn't currently good enough to be a starter or backup for a team pushing for top 4. Harsh but true IMO.

Plenty of potential there no doubt but he's a level below Origi now for example and even a good bit behind Origi at 20 in terms of experience. A loan elsewhere would be for the best. Unfortunately unless you are exceptional at that age and fit in relatively quickly, you are not starting many games for a team fighting for top 4. We don't really have time to see how good he could be by giving him the time and a decent run in the first team that he needs.

Or forget all that and keep putting him on for the last 30 when we are clear and tell him he can play his way into the team no problem!!

Tusky

Agent Coulson wrote: »

Why?

You were judging Solanke and he is 20.

When was I judging Solanke?

I'm all for giving Solanke game time. I just don't think he should be starting in big games until he develops the goal scoring aspect of his game.