Liverpool FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours 2018

SlickRic

Harry Palmr wrote: »

Having to score at least two goals every game to avoid defeat must be wearing the front line down.

Klopp is starting to look like a one trick pony

He is a one trick pony. Always has been, always will be.

It's a brilliant trick. It can overrun giant team in the world. It's difficult to train a team to be that good at marking space, setting traps and explode into fast, direct attacking play.

But there has been no indication that he is capable of tightening us up when needed, or encouraging us to slow the tempo when needed. He obviously doesn't see the need. But EVERY great manager can get his team's to manage the tempo as needed.

It's his one big flaw. He doesn't see a need for 'game management'. The tactic is to continue to do the same thing over and over until it works.

HandsomeBob

I wonder if Klopp is thinking this morning that he acted like a complete wally slagging off our defence. If you were VVD and saw your new manager already throwing you under the bus you wouldn't blame him for asking himself what has he gotten himself into.

If he lets this window close going forward with a midfield of Can/Wijnaldum/Ox that's grand. That's his right. But he can and should die by that sword and at least own up to his mistakes in the summer. At least that way maybe you could trust him to change his tactics and attitude towards the midfield.

Rodgers in the end had to do the same and pay for his fatal errors even after showing such promise as a manager.

Tipsy McSwagger

I was a massive fan of Klopp before he became manager and desperately wanted him to take over from Rodgers. I now believe strongly we will never win a trophy under Klopp. He has next season to sort out the massive issues he has created before fans start turning against him, mainly with the keeper/defense situation. And please for the love of god stop resting players.

MD1990

HandsomeBob wrote: »

I wonder if Klopp is thinking this morning that he acted like a complete wally slagging off our defence. If you were VVD and saw your new manager already throwing you under the bus you wouldn't blame him for asking himself what has he gotten himself into.

If he lets this window close going forward with a midfield of Can/Wijnaldum/Ox that's grand. That's his right. But he can and should die by that sword and at least own up to his mistakes in the summer. At least that way maybe you could trust him to change his tactics and attitude towards the midfield.

Rodgers in the end had to do the same and pay for his fatal errors even after showing such promise as a manager.

I doubt it since we conceded 3 goals to West Brom

HandsomeBob

MD1990 wrote: »

I doubt it since we conceded 3 goals to West Brom

Given we've conceded a lot more than 3 goals over the last couple of games alone and this isn't the first time he's had a go in public to deflect blame from himself, you'd wonder if he might start to look at himself as part of the problem.

MD1990

HandsomeBob wrote: »

Given we've conceded a lot more than 3 goals over the last couple of games alone and this isn't the first time he's had a go in public to deflect blame from himself, you'd wonder if he might start to look at himself as part of the problem.

I am sure he has. Klopp doesn't come across as a manager to throw players under the bus. But at times players need to hear some criticism they are not children.

Iused2likebusts

I'll say it again but if you have a goalkeeper you can't trust playing behind you. It makes defenders do things they shouldn't and at every set piece there is a sense of fear in the team as they have no confidence the goalkeeper is going to do the job he should.Sort the goalkeeper issue out and I think straightaway our defenders will look better.

PhlegmyMoses

Iused2likebusts wrote: »

I'll say it again but if you have a goalkeeper you can't trust playing behind you. It makes defenders do things they shouldn't and at every set piece there is a sense of fear in the team as they have no confidence the goalkeeper is going to do the job he should.Sort the goalkeeper issue out and I think straightaway our defenders will look better.

United fan here so feel free to ignore. Your goals conceded last night were not to do with your keeper and not really entirely to do with your defence either, although a couple of them didnt cover themselves in glory. First was a great strike but he was allowed to waltz in a by a non existent midfield that didn't recognise the danger. The clearing defensive header was poor but the midfield was outfought at the breakdown in play.

Second goal, your right back bit in way too much and got attracted to the ball, rather than the danger out wide. Gave the winger time to pick his cross, and again Rodriguez waltzed in from just outside the box and wasn't tracked by midfield. Final goal was probably the left backs fault who bit in too much but everybody is guilty of ball watching.

For me the defensive problems are two fold. Some of the personnel in the back line just are not good enough. Moreno, either of your keepers that start, Matip and the young RB (although I wouldn't write him off) all would not be anywhere near any of the defences for City, United, Chelsea, Spurs or even Arsenal. The second issue is that the defence is too often left to fend for themselves against smaller teams as the mdifield isnt doing a good enough job to protect them. If you look at the strong defensive teams, their full backs are often well protected by the winger or a defensive midfielder when they are threatened out wide, but that isn't really the case with Liverpool. In that context, it stands to reason that the likes of Moreno gets caught and struggles with decision making.

daheff

What we really need is a plan B. When teams come and sit & try hit us on the break we cant handle it(swansea west brom). When attacking teams come to play us we can get space to hit them(city).

We badly need another creative midfielder....not replacing coutinho is a big mistake that could end up with us not making 4th(depending on whether spurs/arsenal keep imploding).

And as for our defence...i think top of klopps recruitment policy should be a defensive coach.

Kerrigooney

I'm not exactly sure what our midfield is supposed to be doing...they offer very little, if any protection to the defence and they aren't exactly the most creative bunch either. They just seem to be bodies on the pitch.
Also, if Karius is now the number 1 keeper as Klopp said he is then why is Mignolet getting games? Surely it would benefit Karius more to be playing. Goalkeepers shouldn't need to be rested. Karius couldn't possibly be tired. His main exertions in a game is picking the ball out of the net because he refuses to save anything. Baffling.

Benimar

Kerrigooney wrote: »

I'm not exactly sure what our midfield is supposed to be doing...they offer very little, if any protection to the defence and they aren't exactly the most creative bunch either. They just seem to be bodies on the pitch.
Also, if Karius is now the number 1 keeper as Klopp said he is then why is Mignolet getting games? Surely it would benefit Karius more to be playing. Goalkeepers shouldn't need to be rested. Karius couldn't possibly be tired. His main exertions in a game is picking the ball out of the net because he refuses to save anything. Baffling.

Foreign managers have brought a lot of good things to the English game, but their approach of playing your back up goalkeeper in Cup games is a load of crap tbh.

I’m fully in agreement with you. The first choice keeper should start every game.

mugsymugsy

Benimar wrote: »

Foreign managers have brought a lot of good things to the English game, but their approach of playing your back up goalkeeper in Cup games is a load of crap tbh.

I’m fully in agreement with you. The first choice keeper should start every game.

Agree to a certain extent but in the case where the back up is a youngster is someone with little experience it's useful for them to get game time without getting thrown in at the deep end. Different story with mignolet and karius

NukaCola

We have two GK's who cant make a save......3 shots on target last night, 3 goals.....every game is more or less the same story. Our defenders seem to have little help from the midfield or the GK behind them, not absolving them from blame but it does make it harder.

A good GK wont solve everything but it would help a lot. And Klopp really has to take all the blame with the GK's. Every few months it seems like one of them is told they are number one and then dropped when everyone realises how bad they are. Swapping GK's for each comp is unnecessary and is not helping the situation at all either.

kopite386

One thing about our goalkeeper situation. Danny Ward had a great season with Huddersfield last season in the championship and playoffs to get them into the premier league. Wagner asked Klopp could he take Ward on loan again this season but Klopp said no that he was going to use him. So far Klopp has played him in 1 game the league cup game when we got knocked out to Leicester in the 3rd round and I wouldn't blame Ward for that. So far this season Klopp has played our top 2 goalkeepers and both of them have proven to be shīte. It's now time for Ward to see if he can do any better.

If he wasn't going to play Ward he should have allowed him go on loan to Huddersfield and that would have been the perfect opportunity to see what he is made off. Playing for a lower premier league team where there is not the pressure of winning trophies but facing the same teams week in week out that Liverpool would be facing.

Agent Coulson

The lack of a Defensive/Holding midfielder is and always has been a major issue with Liverpool for over a decade now basically since Hamann left Lucas did a job but injury stopped him progressing.


We have a soft centre that teams who can't match us in football terms can bully us quiet easily out muscle us in a war this needs to be addressed.



Reina's last good season was 09/10 so now we are into a seventh season without a strong keeper in place as well.

Benimar

mugsymugsy wrote: »

Agree to a certain extent but in the case where the back up is a youngster is someone with little experience it's useful for them to get game time without getting thrown in at the deep end. Different story with mignolet and karius

Also, we aren’t just playing the backup in the Carabao cup, we are doing it in the FA Cup and, worst of all, the CL!

Tipsy McSwagger

You can pick a decent keeper for less than 15 million in the Premiership/Championship. Fabianski, Foster, Pope are all good keepers that would do a good job for us.

theoneeyedman

kopite386 wrote: »

One thing about our goalkeeper situation. Danny Ward had a great season with Huddersfield last season in the championship and playoffs to get them into the premier league. Wagner asked Klopp could he take Ward on loan again this season but Klopp said no that he was going to use him. So far Klopp has played him in 1 game the league cup game when we got knocked out to Leicester in the 3rd round and I wouldn't blame Ward for that. So far this season Klopp has played our top 2 goalkeepers and both of them have proven to be shīte. It's now time for Ward to see if he can do any better.

If he wasn't going to play Ward he should have allowed him go on loan to Huddersfield and that would have been the perfect opportunity to see what he is made off. Playing for a lower premier league team where there is not the pressure of winning trophies but facing the same teams week in week out that Liverpool would be facing.

This!!!

I've been saying this for several weeks, unless he has lost an arm he should have featured by now

I do hope we beat Huddersfield on Tues
I think there's a slight over reaction to the last two results as coutinho is gone and some are fearing a repeat of last Jan & Feb form materialising.

brevity

Liverpool are unlikely to make further signings in this transfer window because Jürgen Klopp believes that his squad is strong enough to negotiate the final months of the campaign, writes @_pauljoyce https://t.co/FoFCw0VYaR

Seems rather risky

Kerrigooney

brevity wrote: »

Liverpool are unlikely to make further signings in this transfer window because Jürgen Klopp believes that his squad is strong enough to negotiate the final months of the campaign, writes @_pauljoyce https://t.co/FoFCw0VYaR

Seems rather risky

I think Jurgen is on the glue.

Riesen_Meal

If Lallana is out until March it's going to be a long 2 months, not many other creative type players left in the team since a certain someone moved to pastures new...

mosstin

Tipsy McSwagger wrote: »

I was a massive fan of Klopp before he became manager and desperately wanted him to take over from Rodgers. I now believe strongly we will never win a trophy under Klopp. He has next season to sort out the massive issues he has created before fans start turning against him, mainly with the keeper/defense situation. And please for the love of god stop resting players.

This thread's equivalent of 'Many of my best friends are black'.

PhlegmyMoses

Fieldog wrote: »

If Lallana is out until March it's going to be a long 2 months, not many other creative type players left in the team since a certain someone moved to pastures new...

Your board needs to spend. An injury to one or two of your excellent front three, which is hardly out of the realms of possibility, and you are down to bare bones. It would be truly negligent of them to not try to do something to mitigate for potential injuries in the best part of your team. Same goes for Spurs, even more so in fact.

Trigger

Agent Coulson wrote: »

The lack of a Defensive/Holding midfielder is and always has been a major issue with Liverpool for over a decade now basically since Hamann left Lucas did a job but injury stopped him progressing.


We have a soft centre that teams who can't match us in football terms can bully us quiet easily out muscle us in a war this needs to be addressed.



Reina's last good season was 09/10 so now we are into a seventh season without a strong keeper in place as well.

I think this is the issue in general with Klopps set up and has been for years. His fast high press uses all 6 players/plus the fullbacks if out wide and doesn’t allow for a midfielder to sit in front of the defence.. the amount of space between the defence and midfield is mental when the press is on.. he is then relying on the defenders to step up and cover that gap which leaves more spaces behind and if they don’t cover the gap properly the defence is left all over the shop.

It’s why bypassing the press by going to a big man works so often against ye.. it’s basically play to defender allow for the press to come into effect, play back to CB or GK who plays it long to Striker and practically the whole pool team is in the oppositions half, obviously the press works a lot and causes mistakes to be made and that’s when it looks great.. I really think ye would be better off sittingboff a bit and staying a bit more compact, let the teams make a mistake and catch them on the hop

Against the better teams ye are getting way more time to counter attack and that’s where ye are best..

ricero

face it lads we will never be successful under this FSG buisness model. We could have pep, poch, conte or jose and i still think we would be where we are.

when van dijk was signed at the start of this window i stupidly thought that things were finally changing at this club and we were about to make the signings to take us to the next level. next thing coutinho (our best player) is off for a record breaking fee yet we have not spent a penny of it yet. really feel that the coutinho fee has paid for van dijk, ox and keita.

the way i see it is that this is the lfc we will see until the yanks are gone. 1 trophy in 12 years is everton levels. no big players will want to join this club if we cant offer big wages or meet their ambitions of winning trophies.

~Rebel~

Tipsy McSwagger wrote: »

I was a massive fan of Klopp before he became manager and desperately wanted him to take over from Rodgers. I now believe strongly we will never win a trophy under Klopp. He has next season to sort out the massive issues he has created before fans start turning against him, mainly with the keeper/defense situation. And please for the love of god stop resting players.

Ah c'mere that seems a bit over the top given that he's already gotten Liverpool to multiple finals.

Iused2likebusts

PhlegmyMoses wrote: »

United fan here so feel free to ignore. Your goals conceded last night were not to do with your keeper and not really entirely to do with your defence either, although a couple of them didnt cover themselves in glory. First was a great strike but he was allowed to waltz in a by a non existent midfield that didn't recognise the danger. The clearing defensive header was poor but the midfield was outfought at the breakdown in play.

Second goal, your right back bit in way too much and got attracted to the ball, rather than the danger out wide. Gave the winger time to pick his cross, and again Rodriguez waltzed in from just outside the box and wasn't tracked by midfield. Final goal was probably the left backs fault who bit in too much but everybody is guilty of ball watching.

For me the defensive problems are two fold. Some of the personnel in the back line just are not good enough. Moreno, either of your keepers that start, Matip and the young RB (although I wouldn't write him off) all would not be anywhere near any of the defences for City, United, Chelsea, Spurs or even Arsenal. The second issue is that the defence is too often left to fend for themselves against smaller teams as the mdifield isnt doing a good enough job to protect them. If you look at the strong defensive teams, their full backs are often well protected by the winger or a defensive midfielder when they are threatened out wide, but that isn't really the case with Liverpool. In that context, it stands to reason that the likes of Moreno gets caught and struggles with decision making.

I wasn't just referring to last nights game but on last nights game I'd totally blame mignolet for the 3rd goal.A proper goalkeeper cuts out the shot/cross . Issues throughout the game from mignolet the disallowed goal he gets bullied. A ball in the 6 yd box should be his. The attempt at a punch in the 2nd half was another shocker. Also in the 2nd half matip swiped a ball clear near the end line when all it needed was a call from mig to gather the ball. As a defender all these things will make you nervous of what's behind you supposed to be bailing you out. This is a regular occurrence. Liverpool deserved to lose last night and gave up a lot more chances than usual. If you look at the save % stats for our gks its close to 1 in every 2 shots ending in a goal. We have the 3rd lowest shots conceded % in the whole of Europe so its not like the keeper has much to do but they regularly can't do it. I do get that there is a bit of skewed info with those stats as we do give up better chances than teams with a more defensive mindset . However with a better keeper I'd have Liverpool between 6-10 pts better off in the league.

rgace

awec wrote: »

Wise up.

This "I'm glad we're out" or "the FA cup doesn't" matter stuff is embarrassing. Liverpool haven't won a sausage in 6 seasons. We are in no position to turn our nose up at any trophy.

We had the same arguments after we were knocked out of the league cup.
Now, I'm not happy to be knocked out of the FA cup and it is difficult to say exactly how many extra points not being in it counts for but if we make top four by a point or two it probably will have been a blessing in disguise.

There wasn't much commentary on the fact the Man City, Chelsea, Arsenal and Bristol City all had disappointing results after the league cup first leg.
I don't believe we would have been able to put in the performance we did against City had we had a midweek game.

kfallon

rgace wrote: »

Now, I'm not happy to be knocked out of the FA cup and it is difficult to say exactly how many extra points not being in it counts for but if we make top four by a point or two it probably will have been a blessing in disguise.

No it won't, anyone who throws their nose up at a trophy to finish 4th is a fúcking moron. The game is gone, money > silverware

rgace

kfallon wrote: »

No it won't, anyone who throws their nose up at a trophy to finish 4th is a fúcking moron. The game is gone, money > silverware

I don't think the FA cup is as big a trophy as it used to be, it is nice to win a trophy but Arsenal have shown it does not mean you will progress, competing in the CL consistently is the quickest way that we will improve the team to compete for the biggest trophies.

Do you think thumbing your nose up at the league cup for 4th place makes someone a fúcking moron? Considering it is basically a glorified u23's cup at this stage.

ERG89

brevity wrote:

Seems rather risky

It's not surprising. Klopp is at the club over 2 years now & I'm still looking at Lovren, Moreno & Mignolet who weren't good enough under the previous manager. Only Wenger would do that & it isn't a compliment.
His transfers haven't been consistent either; often ignoring a weak position for a year too long.
If we get 4th I can't look at this season as progress as the league has been atrocious from 9 down & we are struggling more in the big games this season.
Winning a Cup would be nice but really it wouldn't say a lot looking at the teams who won it the last decade most were poor so it's no sign of progress

mada999

awec wrote: »

Wise up.

This "I'm glad we're out" or "the FA cup doesn't" matter stuff is embarrassing. Liverpool haven't won a sausage in 6 seasons. We are in no position to turn our nose up at any trophy.

have to agree with this.. need to be winning something soon...

Klopp should have at least a Europa league under his belt (even with a very difficult route to the final and even 1-0 up at half time), was unlucky against city in the league cup final.

He went more or less full strength against West Brom and the team fell short again. Moreno was poor and again the center mid was poor again. Personally I think Can and Gini are not creative enough against these type of teams. If i was Klopp i'd be upgrading at least two of Can, Gini, Henderson and Milner. Keita coming in is going to be huge.

If the argument is that we rotate in the cups then the quality of the squad has to be upgraded simple as.

There's still a lot of deadwood in the squad that needs to be improved upon:
Milner, Sturridge, Ings, Mig, Karius, Flanagan, Markovic and Origi.

Mane is out of form big time... there is no leader on the pitch at all...

Personally i wouldn't start Can and Gini in the same team against any other teams bar the top 6 or so.

A couple of injuries now and we are in deep trouble.

Coutinho's creativity has to be replaced.

Mr.H

We are a football team. Success is based on trophies. We have none in the last few years. Finishing in the top 4 just qualifies for another competition.

mada999

daheff wrote: »

What we really need is a plan B. When teams come and sit & try hit us on the break we cant handle it(swansea west brom). When attacking teams come to play us we can get space to hit them(city).

We badly need another creative midfielder....not replacing coutinho is a big mistake that could end up with us not making 4th(depending on whether spurs/arsenal keep imploding).

And as for our defence...i think top of klopps recruitment policy should be a defensive coach.

i dont really believe we need a plan B per sé... we need to move the ball quicker and be more clever and patient against teams who park the bus...instead we are very slow around midfield...

mada999

Benimar wrote: »

Foreign managers have brought a lot of good things to the English game, but their approach of playing your back up goalkeeper in Cup games is a load of crap tbh.

I’m fully in agreement with you. The first choice keeper should start every game.

dont think its a bad thing letting your backup keeper play in certain games..... however you shouldnt be chopping and changing who your #1 keeper is week to week

smileyj1987

Honestly think Robertson and karius should start every game from here on out. Mignolet and Moreno seem to be mentally weak and prone to errors all the time. Then the right flank is weak too but no fault of Trent AA or Gomez they are very young and well they can't be slaughtered because if clyne was fit they wouldn't have played as much. When it comes to the centre of defence i think it's fine. Just think the partner for VVD needs to be picked and played beside him all the time.

Benimar

kfallon wrote: »

No it won't, anyone who throws their nose up at a trophy to finish 4th is a fúcking moron. The game is gone, money > silverware

Funnily enough the same quote, almost word for word, was said to me last night....by an Arsenal season ticket holder.

If anyone should know....

Also, why do people think it’s a run in the cups OR top 4? Why not both?

If we get (or miss out on) top 4 by 10 points,then getting knocked out of the cups has no influence whatsoever.

noodler

As bad as the goalkeeper situation is, I think it's made worse by dropping Mig.

Just play him consistently until we get a new one, bringing him in for the odd game is self-defeating.

As bad as he looked last night, I remember Mignolet contributing before, can't say the same about Karius.

kfallon

rgace wrote: »

Do you think thumbing your nose up at the league cup for 4th place makes someone a fúcking moron? Considering it is basically a glorified u23's cup at this stage.

Yes! Do you remember 2003? Better than any day we finished 4th

spoonerhead

If there’s one positive from this week, it has removed that nonsense about Emre Can being what we need. Couldn’t believe he got praise when he wasn't even good for that City game

NukaCola

noodler wrote: »

As bad as the goalkeeper situation is, I think it's made worse by dropping Mig.

Just play him consistently until we get a new one, bringing him in for the odd game is self-defeating.

As bad as he looked last night, I remember Mignolet contributing before, can't say the same about Karius.

If its a choice between the two, Mig is the better GK. Thats not saying much at all tbh, but Karius has done nothing to warrant a starting spot. I get the argument that we dont really know how good he could be etc and a run of games might be good for him, but I've seen enough to know that at this point he is not good enough and based on what we've seen its hard to imagine him improving to the point where he is a solid option short to medium term.

Oranage2

Benimar wrote: »

Funnily enough the same quote, almost word for word, was said to me last night....by an Arsenal season ticket holder.

If anyone should know....

Also, why do people think it’s a run in the cups OR top 4? Why not both?

If we get (or miss out on) top 4 by 10 points,then getting knocked out of the cups has no influence whatsoever.

Well the fact is in the last 10 years liverpool won 1 cup and finished in the top 4 twice. It's a fact liverpool can barely compete for just one of them, nevermind both.

NukaCola

brevity wrote: »

Liverpool are unlikely to make further signings in this transfer window because Jürgen Klopp believes that his squad is strong enough to negotiate the final months of the campaign, writes @_pauljoyce https://t.co/FoFCw0VYaR

Seems rather risky

Well if thats his decision then I'm happy enough to let him prove it. Why he's making it so hard on himself I'll never know but we seem to be a transfer window behind in terms of recruitment anyway.

noodler

NukaCola wrote: »

If its a choice between the two, Mig is the better GK. Thats not saying much at all tbh, but Karius has done nothing to warrant a starting spot. I get the argument that we dont really know how good he could be etc and a run of games might be good for him, but I've seen enough to know that at this point he is not good enough and based on what we've seen its hard to imagine him improving to the point where he is a solid option short to medium term.

But, but De Gea!!

Nah I agree.

Harry Palmr

spoonerhead wrote: »

If there’s one positive from this week, it has removed that nonsense about Emre Can being what we need. Couldn’t believe he got praise when he wasn't even good for that City game

Can is only good when he has room to charge through the middle, any side that sits will render him pointless. So he could actually be fine in the Champions League.

As I didn't watch the second half I have no idea how Henderson did assuming he came on - was he the usual sideways/back and long ball to the flanks?

Benimar

Oranage2 wrote: »

Well the fact is in the last 10 years liverpool won 1 cup and finished in the top 4 twice. It's a fact liverpool can barely compete for just one of them, nevermind both.

If you are going to have a pop, at least have your facts correct. We have finished Top 4 in 4 of the last 10 completed seasons.

We also have a better squad than any time since 08/09

NukaCola

Harry Palmr wrote: »

Can is only good when he has room to charge through the middle, any side that sits will render him pointless. So he could actually be fine in the Champions League.

As I didn't watch the second half I have no idea how Henderson did assuming he came on - was he the usual sideways/back and long ball to the flanks?

He added a bit more energy in running and moving the ball a bit faster but the end product was similar.....we looked better in the middle with him on though IMO.

NukaCola

Oranage2 wrote: »

Well the fact is in the last 10 years liverpool won 1 cup and finished in the top 4 twice. It's a fact liverpool can barely compete for just one of them, nevermind both.

Hard to argue with that although it has been 4 times in the CL i think?

I think we are in our best position in a long while to compete on multiple fronts though despite the defeat yesterday. Doing well in the league, we may not challenge for the CL really but progress to the QF would be a step in the right direction.

ShamoBuc

No what mistakes the replacements would make, I would not make a single complaint if it meant never seeing Mig, Moreno or Can play for Liverpool ever again.