Leinster v Connacht Build up Thread

Wegians89

stephen_n wrote: »

Would give Coulson the advantage for sure, be a good test for porter.

It'll be a great test for coulson too, who hasn't played much yet this season

connachta

McCartney is a good choice too, two mobile hookers on the pitch with sean Cronin.

If Connacht could worry about 8, 10 and 14, they should get the upper hand 4, 13 and 15

Burkie1203

Wegians89 wrote: »

Dno if you can say better team from 6-15.
Leavy and vdf yeah I'll agree there. Aging Muldoon vs young deegan I'd say about even.
Marmion is better then McGrath
Sexton miles ahead of carty

6-10 is where I think this game will be won and IMO Leinster have a massive advantage there.

The gap between the 9s is minimal.

connachta

Burkie1203 wrote: »

Wegians89 wrote: »

Dno if you can say better team from 6-15.
Leavy and vdf yeah I'll agree there. Aging Muldoon vs young deegan I'd say about even.
Marmion is better then McGrath
Sexton miles ahead of carty

6-10 is where I think this game will be won and IMO Leinster have a massive advantage there.

The gap between the 9s is minimal.

I don't get why Connacht back-row is so underestimated.
Masterson was injured for a whole year, but looks back to his best now, absolutely busy everywhere
Butler is so good since he came that we don't feel bad without Heenan, which is huge. he's not known enough in the rest of Ireland yet. But without being exceptional, he  can certainly  match Leinster back-rowers on Monday
I'm not that confident about Muldoon and Carty, but if they're serious, they're able to make the gap thin.

Juwwi

Stan James and Spreadex have Connacht +16 reading this thread it must be a good bet.

FrannoFan

connachta wrote: »

I don't get why Connacht back-row is so underestimated.
Masterson was injured for a whole year, but looks back to his best now, absolutely busy everywhere
Butler is so good since he came that we don't feel bad without Heenan, which is huge. he's not known enough in the rest of Ireland yet. But without being exceptional, he  can certainly  match Leinster back-rowers on Monday
I'm not that confident about Muldoon and Carty, but if they're serious, they're able to make the gap thin.

The Connacht backrow is decent but vdf and leavy are in an Irish conversation. Can't say same for the Connacht lads.

Coulson was very impressive against an admittedly weak ulster. Be interesting to see how he goes.

A load of michaels lads involved for both sides as an interesting aside.
Kelleher and coulson for connacht
Maloney. Mcgrath. Reid. Marsh on bench.

robbie1977

robbie1977 wrote: »

Stan James and Spreadex have Connacht +16 reading this thread it must be a good bet.

I don't bet personally but if I did I'd be much more inclined to back Connacht than Leinster at that handicap.

Burkie1203

connachta wrote: »

I don't get why Connacht back-row is so underestimated.
Masterson was injured for a whole year, but looks back to his best now, absolutely busy everywhere
Butler is so good since he came that we don't feel bad without Heenan, which is huge. he's not known enough in the rest of Ireland yet. But without being exceptional, he  can certainly  match Leinster back-rowers on Monday
I'm not that confident about Muldoon and Carty, but if they're serious, they're able to make the gap thin.

I never under estimated them. Just think Leinster backrow is much better. Same at half back and think 6-10 will squeeze the game in leinsters favour

connachta

FrannoFan wrote: »

connachta wrote: »

I don't get why Connacht back-row is so underestimated.
Masterson was injured for a whole year, but looks back to his best now, absolutely busy everywhere
Butler is so good since he came that we don't feel bad without Heenan, which is huge. he's not known enough in the rest of Ireland yet. But without being exceptional, he  can certainly  match Leinster back-rowers on Monday
I'm not that confident about Muldoon and Carty, but if they're serious, they're able to make the gap thin.

The Connacht backrow is decent but vdf and leavy are in an Irish conversation. Can't say same for the Connacht lads.

That's exactly what I meant above. Masterson, before severe injury, was on a very promising trajectory, à la Leavy, and he's really back on the upper curve.
And Butler is a project player, that's why he's not in the Irish conversation until 2020. But lord, if you've seen him play, he's making immaculate performances

Ciaran-Irl

.ak wrote: »

I think the fairer thing is to look at relevant choice in each position.


5/15 are 1st choice (33.3%)
3/15 are 2nd choice (20%)
5/15 are 3rd choice (33.3%)
1/15 are 4th choice (6.6%)
1/15 are 5th choice (6.6%)

So what does that mean?

I have no idea...

I can't believe I'm weighing in on this topic, but how can you talk about this in reference to locks - as in, in a position where two are selected. Is Fardy "not first choice", even though he starts in the second position in every big game? Do you not get two first choice, two second choice, two third choice etc?

policy75

Connacht bullied ulster last week. And they only bullied them in a place that was weak. And once they did that ulster looked really vulnerable everywhere. And i think they have the exact same opportunity come monday

Burkie1203

connachta wrote: »

That's exactly what I meant above. Masterson, before severe injury, was on a very promising trajectory, à la Leavy, and he's really back on the upper curve.
And Butler is a project player, that's why he's not in the Irish conversation until 2020. But lord, if you've seen him play, he's making immaculate performances

Backrow and half back is a big advantage to leinster. 11-15 is fairly even but I think Leinsters record this season (roughly 110 more points scored and 50 less conceded) points to a few things which give leinster an edge there.

FrannoFan

connachta wrote: »

That's exactly what I meant above. Masterson, before severe injury, was on a very promising trajectory, à la Leavy, and he's really back on the upper curve.
And Butler is a project player, that's why he's not in the Irish conversation until 2020. But lord, if you've seen him play, he's making immaculate performances

Masterson is very good but he isn't at leavys level. The next Muldoon. Might pick up a few caps but won't be a regular in Irish team, more likely to be a club hero. The kind of guy ulster would love. That weird point of very good club man but not quite international standards.
Haven't seen enough of butler to comment.

connachta

Burkie1203 wrote: »

connachta wrote: »

That's exactly what I meant above. Masterson, before severe injury, was on a very promising trajectory, à la Leavy, and he's really back on the upper curve.
And Butler is a project player, that's why he's not in the Irish conversation until 2020. But lord, if you've seen him play, he's making immaculate performances

Backrow and half back is a big advantage to leinster. 11-15 is fairly even but I think Leinsters record this season (roughly 110 more points scored and 50 less conceded) points to a few things which give leinster an edge there.

Not the same backs.
Without Henshaw in particular it may change a lot
+ Connacht backs have found their optimal moment of form IMO. Except being cautious about Kelleher, I can't wait to see them eat the blues!
It's weird to say but the weak-link might be our captain, from what we saw this season.

Ciaran-Irl

Ciaran-Irl wrote: »

I can't believe I'm weighing in on this topic, but how can you talk about this in reference to locks - as in, in a position where two are selected. Is Fardy "not first choice", even though he starts in the second position in every big game? Do you not get two first choice, two second choice, two third choice etc?

Of course Fardy is first choice for Leinster - but he's not playing against Connacht.

Ciaran-Irl

Calliope Melodic Pint wrote: »

Of course Fardy is first choice for Leinster - but he's not playing against Connacht.

That's my point. You have two first choice players for two positions. Meaning Molony is second choice, as is Ryan. Nagle & Kearney are third choice. Not 5th.

Burkie1203

connachta wrote: »

Not the same backs.
Without Henshaw in particular it may change a lot
+ Connacht backs have found their optimal moment of form IMO. Except being cautious about Kelleher, I can't wait to see them eat the blues!
It's weird to say but the weak-link might be our captain, from what we saw this season.

Henshaw has barely played pro14 this season.

Squidgy Black

connachta wrote: »

Not the same backs.
Without Henshaw in particular it may change a lot
+ Connacht backs have found their optimal moment of form IMO. Except being cautious about Kelleher, I can't wait to see them eat the blues!
It's weird to say but the weak-link might be our captain, from what we saw this season.

Noel Reid's defence might be poor but I certainly wouldn't discount him, he's a great distributor and a good playmaker.

Lowe is probably the most exciting back there out of both teams attacking wise also.

I'd take the Leinster halfback pairing over Connacht's any day of the week.

The only weakness I see is potentially the tight five minus Cronin, but that's not exactly a strength Connacht boast either.

connachta

Burkie1203 wrote: »

connachta wrote: »

Not the same backs.
Without Henshaw in particular it may change a lot
+ Connacht backs have found their optimal moment of form IMO. Except being cautious about Kelleher, I can't wait to see them eat the blues!
It's weird to say but the weak-link might be our captain, from what we saw this season.

Henshaw has barely played since he left his province (ok the curse is a bit exaggerated )

connachta

Squidgy Black wrote: »

connachta wrote: »

Not the same backs.
Without Henshaw in particular it may change a lot
+ Connacht backs have found their optimal moment of form IMO. Except being cautious about Kelleher, I can't wait to see them eat the blues!
It's weird to say but the weak-link might be our captain, from what we saw this season.

Noel Reid's defence might be poor but I certainly wouldn't discount him, he's a great distributor and a good playmaker.

Lowe is probably the most exciting back there out of both teams attacking wise also.

I'd take the Leinster halfback pairing over Connacht's any day of the week.

The only weakness I see is potentially the tight five minus Cronin, but that's not exactly a strength Connacht boast either.

There's a 9 and a 10. Connacht 9 has nothing to be ashamed of v Leinster 9.
Connacht won't win it with the tight 5, Leinster selection just make us able to settle our plans "easier" (if we can say that, in comparison with a constant fight vs Fardy, Furlong, McGrath and so on).

We've an expansive game (even with new coach), and Healy/Farrell/TOH are attacking threats too.
If I'd rely on 1-5, I'd hope for the rain. I don't

Burkie1203

connachta wrote: »

There's a 9 and a 10. Connacht 9 has nothing to be ashamed of v Leinster 9.
Connacht won't win it with the tight 5, Leinster selection just make us able to settle our plans "easier" (if we can say that, in comparison with a constant fight vs Fardy, Furlong, McGrath and so on).

We've an expansive game (even with new coach), and Healy/Farrell/TOH are attacking threats too.
If I'd rely on 1-5, I'd hope for the rain. I don't

For back line to be potent they need a platform. Connacht tried running everything last seas4o and it was a disaster.

9v9 is even in my book. Which 9 is better, the gap is tiny. Its all on the day there. Leinster will have far more control at half back if 9 and 10 perform

typhoony

6,7,10 and 15 for Leinster would be ahead of their opposite numbers, then there's 2 or 3 positions that are equal, the remaining 8/9 positions Connacht have the upper hand. but then you have home advantage so that evens things up, but Connacht to shade it. Also crucially Connacht have their maul back to being a potent weapon

.ak

Ciaran-Irl wrote: »

I can't believe I'm weighing in on this topic, but how can you talk about this in reference to locks - as in, in a position where two are selected. Is Fardy "not first choice", even though he starts in the second position in every big game? Do you not get two first choice, two second choice, two third choice etc?

My post was tongue in cheek, but I did give a bit of thought on our selections... yes for the locks I picked two first choice as you suggest, ie; toner and fardy are 1st choice etc

Bazzo

Butler is Connacht's best signing since Aki IMO, think he's possibly being slightly underestimated.

Burkie1203

typhoony wrote: »

6,7,10 and 15 for Leinster would be ahead of their opposite numbers, then there's 2 or 3 positions that are equal, the remaining 8/9 positions Connacht have the upper hand.

It doesn't work that way. I think 6-10 is a major influence in any game and if the advantage have there translates on the pitch then Sexton will get his midfield going.

Leinsters back 3 is actually quite good. I think Lowe will benefit defensively from having RK at 15 and McFadden, while there is better options available at leinster/ireland, he has never really let Leinster down.

Former Former

Bazzo wrote: »

Butler is Connacht's best signing since Aki IMO, think he's possibly being slightly underestimated.

He looks really good from what little I've seen.

This head to head thing is a bit silly anyway, it's not how rugby works and it tends to annoy people.

Let's just all agree that Leinster will win by 50 and leave it at that.

Former Former

Burkie1203 wrote: »

Leinsters back 3 is actually quite good. I think Lowe will benefit defensively from having RK at 15 and McFadden, while there is better options available at leinster/ireland, he has never really let Leinster down.

Totally agree re Lowe, I think we'll see a much improved display from him and hopefully he creates a few selection headaches next month.

McFadden is playing great rugby. He's a quality player and we don't really have anyone significantly better

Burkie1203

Former Former wrote: »

McFadden is playing great rugby. He's a quality player and we don't really have anyone significantly better

I wouldn't say he is playing geeat but he has been consistently good lately

Former Coach

Does anybody know if there are likely to be tickets available at the ground tomorrow? I may need a couple if extra tickets but I won't know until tomorrow.

Burkie1203

Burkie1203 wrote: »

I wouldn't say he is playing geeat but he has been consistently good lately

He's been Fergus McFadden lately, which is a decent and industrious winger but you'd really hope a team with European ambitions could do better. He's really lacking in a few areas.

LostArt

Former Coach wrote: »

Does anybody know if there are likely to be tickets available at the ground tomorrow? I may need a couple if extra tickets but I won't know until tomorrow.

16,000 sold so I'd say you'll be able to pick some up

Mr Shikadance

Whoever wins the set piece battle and the breakdown will likely win the game. If Connacht do an Ulster on Leinster up front and at the breakdown, not even Sexton will save them.

Now that is a huge ask, but that is the challenge for Connacht. Take on Leinster at source, and take all of our scoring opportunities.

If we fail to do that, Leinster can beat us only at 70 %. Connacht have a pretty balanced and talented team but we are playing Europe’s elite.

There are levels to this game...but sheer bloody force and hunger can still surprise, even the elite.

sydthebeat

Mr Shikadance wrote: »

..but sheer bloody force and hunger can still surprise, even the elite.

Part of what makes the elite 'the elite' is that they have the "sheer bloody force and hunger" to begin with.

Mr Shikadance

sydthebeat wrote: »

Mr Shikadance wrote: »

..but sheer bloody force and hunger can still surprise, even the elite.

Part of what makes the elite 'the elite' is that they have the "sheer bloody force and hunger" to begin with.

Of course!

But it does not make one completely invincible either. New Zealand is a great example. Ireland got at them.

Burkie1203

Mr Shikadance wrote: »

If Connacht do an Ulster on Leinster up front and at the breakdown, not even Sexton will save them.

Do an ulster? WTF does that mean

Mr Shikadance

Burkie1203 wrote: »

Mr Shikadance wrote: »

If Connacht do an Ulster on Leinster up front and at the breakdown, not even Sexton will save them.

Do an ulster? WTF does that mean

Perform as we did against Ulster.

Story for the poor english.

Peregrine

I would have thought 'doing an Ulster up front and at the breakdown' meant getting completely bullied and blown away given Ulster's recent forwards problems. That doesn't seem to be the context though. Colour me confused.

Edit: Ah, I see now.

Mr Shikadance

Mr Shikadance wrote: »

Of course!

But it does not make one completely invincible either. New Zealand is a great example. Ireland got at them.

Of course Leinster aren't invincible, just look at the teamsheets.

stephen_n

Burkie1203 wrote: »

I wouldn't say he is playing geeat but he has been consistently good lately

I think that’s a case of name bias tbh, if Byrne, Lowe or Larmour were putting in the performances that Ferg has recently, they would be lauded from on high.

Former Former

If Leinster are taken by surprise by Connacht, there will be hard questions asked.

Pressing hard in defence and committing bodies to every tackle and ruck is their blueprint for victory. It blew Ulster away but we know what's coming and having two opensides should help.

stephen_n

stephen_n wrote: »

I think that’s a case of name bias tbh, if Byrne, Lowe or Larmour were putting in the performances that Ferg has recently, they would be lauded from on high.

Tbh I was thinking the exact same thing but in reverse. If one of those guys you named above was as poor under our box kick as McFadden was in the first Exeter game for example, he would have been slaughtered on here. Look at what people have been saying about Carbery and Larmour for example, a load of nebulous rubbish about supposed backfield issues.

Buer

Calliope Melodic Pint wrote: »

stephen_n wrote: »

I think that’s a case of name bias tbh, if Byrne, Lowe or Larmour were putting in the performances that Ferg has recently, they would be lauded from on high.

Tbh I was thinking the exact same thing but in reverse. If one of those guys you named above was as poor under our box kick as McFadden was in the first Exeter game for example, he would have been slaughtered on here. Look at what people have been saying about Carbery and Larmour for example, a load of nebulous rubbish about supposed backfield issues.

In fairness, I'd have serious concerns over Larmour in terms of his backfield play and positional sense after the Munster game. He's an incredible talent but equally raw.

connachta

Bazzo wrote: »

Butler is Connacht's best signing since Aki IMO, think he's possibly being slightly underestimated.

THANK YOU!

Buer

Buer wrote: »

In fairness, I'd have serious concerns over Larmour in terms of his backfield play and positional sense after the Munster game. He's an incredible talent but equally raw.

Thought he was positionally quite strong against munster, just made a couple of errors once he got the ball. Certainly never let the ball bounce in the manner Joey has in the past. Don't think he dropped any either.

Buer

Buer wrote: »

In fairness, I'd have serious concerns over Larmour in terms of his backfield play and positional sense after the Munster game. He's an incredible talent but equally raw.

Ok, can you elaborate?

thomond2006

Larmour will learn from Below AIL Standard.

Stheno

AdamD wrote: »

Thought he was positionally quite strong against munster, just made a couple of errors once he got the ball. Certainly never let the ball bounce in the manner Joey has in the past. Don't think he dropped any either.

I thought the same. He'd a couple of catches where the commentators attributed them to ROL

connachta

Former Former wrote: »

Bazzo wrote: »

Butler is Connacht's best signing since Aki IMO, think he's possibly being slightly underestimated.

He looks really good from what little I've seen.

This head to head thing is a bit silly anyway, it's not how rugby works and it tends to annoy people.

Let's just all agree that Leinster will win by 50 and leave it at that.

Double standard here
you said Leinster backrow guys are way better, and when I contest it because Butler and Masterson are the most underated as there's much attention paid to Munster/Leinster international back-rows, then you said it's a collective advantage
I contest that too, collectively, that Connacht back-row is much more experienced and used to play together

thomond2006

thomond2006 wrote: »

Larmour will learn from Below AIL Standard.

Hopefully he'll be poison again tomorrow.

For Connacht.

Stheno

Calliope Melodic Pint wrote: »

Hopefully he'll be poison again tomorrow.

For Connacht.

Was it not Lowe who was poison?