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Farmer brought a digger onto my land

13

Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 854 ✭✭✭beveragelady


    Ginger83 wrote: »
    If you try to rent it to him he will just laugh at you

    Except that I now have proof that he has been claiming farm payments on land he has no business with. He can laugh if he wants but the dept of ag won't find it funny.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,466 ✭✭✭✭mickdw


    The department won't get involved in the issue of his grant claim.
    He will reasonably claim that he has to date been in possession of the field and is only aware that you are claiming ownership as of this week. He will state that he is therefore beginning a claim for adverse possession.
    Probably stop his grants for a while but not a clear cut as you think.
    You seriously need to exclude him from the lands. No silly leases, no continuing with him roaming freely over it. Get him locked out and immediately report to gardai if he goes back in.
    Issue notice to cease claiming on your lands.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,608 ✭✭✭✭elperello


    Seriously.
    Stop messing about and get this guy off your land.
    If anything should happen to you he is the kind of person who would come to your funeral while plotting to rob your successors.
    Safeguard your property without further delay.


  • Registered Users Posts: 79 ✭✭Le shovelle


    You come across as a genuine, honest person but unfortunately some people see can that as a sign of weakness and take advantage.
    I think you need to go back to the gardai.
    Good luck


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,798 ✭✭✭Mr. Incognito


    Hello there

    You need to contact a solicitor.

    Only a solicitor can access the Courts to have an injunction taken restraining him from entering your land which is what is required.

    Claiming payments for your land is fraud- again a solicitor can assist.

    If you are allowing his animals on your land then he could have claim for adverse possession- this must be stopped immediately. Again a solicitor will be able to assist.

    A lot of information on this thread is incorrect. Go to a solicitor.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,996 ✭✭✭two wheels good


    .......................
    *Proposed conditions:
    The lease is on a yearly basis, my beehive remains where it is, I have continued access to the hive and the field, no heavy machinery is to be brought into the field and no alterations made to drainage, hedges etc without consultation.


    This man is already taking liberties when he has no rights to your land and you think you can control/influence his behaviour by giving him legal rights to access with a lease.
    This is not a logical conclusion based on his past behaviour.
    Your subtle plan will be interpreted as weakness and likely to encourage more trangressions. What then? You'll be the one with the ulcer dealing with the consequences.
    And how much time and solicitor fees will be involved with the lease? For €10 a year rent?

    This man needs to be kept at arms length. Not engaged with in agreements, whether informal or legal.
    Other posters have already advised padlocks, fences, legal notices. I agree with them.
    Put the fraudulant Ag payment aside and deal with that as a separate issue.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,553 ✭✭✭Ginger83


    plow it

    My thoughts exactly.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,314 ✭✭✭KyussB


    OP, if you give them an inch, they will take a mile...they already have... You are not being reasonable. You are failing to defend yourself and your property. They will exploit you MORE due to this.

    If you can get planning permission for, and have the spare money for, some fuck off massive/thick steel pole fencing, driven deep - then do that. Fuck him. Get onto a solicitor straight away, and discuss getting the Guards involved, with your solicitor. Explore all legal options.

    Failing that, you will want to consider leaving - no matter what you do, they are going to be stress and trouble for you. There is no dealing with such people in a nice/pleasant way.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,178 ✭✭✭Mango Joe


    Personally I don't see why anyone would continue to contribute thoughts, consideration and sincere advice into this thread when you randomly disappear without a trace for 1 year and 9 months and only come back when its suits you?

    Let me be clear, it is most definitely my opinion that these threads should run both ways and I think you've been quite selfish, thoughtless and rude in your approach.

    Obviously if you felt it best to be a little more discrete then people would have understood this and you could have posted as such in a brief explanatory message - This would have been courtesy and basic good manners.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,025 ✭✭✭✭GBX


    Mango Joe wrote: »
    Personally I don't see why anyone would continue to contribute thoughts, consideration and sincere advice into this thread when you randomly disappear without a trace for 1 year and 9 months and only come back when its suits you?

    Let me be clear, it is most definitely my opinion that these threads should run both ways and I think you've been quite selfish, thoughtless and rude in your approach.

    Obviously if you felt it best to be a little more discrete then people would have understood this and you could have posted as such in a brief explanatory message - This would have been courtesy and basic good manners.

    Are you the other farmer Joe?
    Nobody is expected to update threads in any matter of time. People have lives outside of Boards and obviously post as and when they wish. Your reply actually comes across as rude and entitled of a reply. The OP can post when and how often they like. :rolleyes:


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,178 ✭✭✭Mango Joe


    GBX wrote: »
    Are you the other farmer Joe?
    Nobody is expected to update threads in any matter of time. People have lives outside of Boards and obviously post as and when they wish. Your reply actually comes across as rude and entitled of a reply. The OP can post when and how often they like. :rolleyes:

    I understand your reply 100% and anticipated such responses - Also I did consider the angles around entitlement from both perspectives and what the OPs situation entails.

    I just happen to think its rude to come to a community asking for help and advice and then feck off for 21 months without an acknowledgement, thanks or any second thought to all of the people who offered up their thoughts, advice and consideration in good faith.

    For me it was a matter of etiquette, consideration and basic good manners.

    I completely understand that people will see that differently...that's fine with me.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,968 ✭✭✭✭Thargor


    Mango Joe wrote: »
    I understand your reply 100% and anticipated such responses - Also I did consider the angles around entitlement from both perspectives and what the OPs situation entails.

    I just happen to think its rude to come to a community asking for help and advice and then feck off for 21 months without an acknowledgement, thanks or any second thought to all of the people who offered up their thoughts, advice and consideration in good faith.

    For me it was a matter of etiquette, consideration and basic good manners.

    I completely understand that people will see that differently...that's fine with me.

    She came back when she had an update, what are you on about? Did you expect her to drop in every few days for a year to report no change?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,327 ✭✭✭kollegeknight


    As someone said, plow it. I’d plant wild flower cover on it and feed your bees.

    And I’d also be contacting a solicitor to keep them out.

    If you rented it for a tenner and they started storing silage there what would you do?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,165 ✭✭✭893bet


    Take no money for it.

    There is no way you can have enough exclusions in the lease. Wouldn’t be worth the heart ache of the few quid.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,292 ✭✭✭TheBoyConor


    Are you mad? That is a terrible idea. That will be seen as you rolling over and basically giving him the land for a mere tenner a year. Nuts.

    Rest assured, once he is in on the land with some legitimate basis in the form of a lease, your are goosed. You will never get him out.

    Do not, under any circumstances, let the land or enter into any form of agreement with him or anyone connected to him.

    Play hard ball. Pester your gardai, every time he is seen on the land call the gardai and insist he is trespassing and request them to remove him and prosecute. Put up a remote camera if needs be to alert you to his presence on the land.

    Do not give in to any soft soaping.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,835 ✭✭✭Allinall


    Mango Joe wrote: »
    I understand your reply 100% and anticipated such responses - Also I did consider the angles around entitlement from both perspectives and what the OPs situation entails.

    I just happen to think its rude to come to a community asking for help and advice and then feck off for 21 months without an acknowledgement, thanks or any second thought to all of the people who offered up their thoughts, advice and consideration in good faith.

    For me it was a matter of etiquette, consideration and basic good manners.

    I completely understand that people will see that differently...that's fine with me.

    You haven't offered any of the above.

    Why are you outraged on behalf of complete strangers?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,898 ✭✭✭KOR101


    Don't feed the troll!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,178 ✭✭✭Mango Joe


    KOR101 wrote: »
    Don't feed the troll!

    Thats rich given that I was just voicing an opinion respectfully and without name-calling anyone..... But there you go.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,181 ✭✭✭Lady Haywire


    Mango Joe wrote: »
    Thats rich given that I was just voicing an opinion respectfully and without name-calling anyone..... But there you go.

    You called the OP selfish, thoughtless and rude, purely for not coming back to a thread within a time frame you deem acceptable.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 854 ✭✭✭beveragelady


    Update:
    Nothing to report.


    Am I doing this right?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,958 ✭✭✭D3V!L


    Update:
    Nothing to report.


    Am I doing this right?

    Now make sure you update us every single day ;)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,578 ✭✭✭Markcheese


    Aside from the side issues here of who said what to which poster....
    Be careful which advice you take notice of on here, cos not all of it is right...
    I get that you want a quiet life... And I get that offering a lease does offer some legal protection,to adverse possession...
    I just can't see it ending well, this is probably what this bollix lives for... Oh I have a lease so I'll spread slurry next to your house, oh I've a lease so I knock your ditches, cut down your trees, make the place unpleasant for you... If the lease ends then good, if not sure its like free land,
    The nominal rent might be payed the once, but you'd likely never see it again, (Shure it's only a tenner), but if you don't collect then he's back on his way to acquiring it...

    Lease it for a nominal sum, sure, just not to him... Anyone else but this guy.... And in the meantime take the gates off...

    Slava ukraini 🇺🇦



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,165 ✭✭✭893bet


    I talked to a guard who said he would have the traditional 'quiet chat' with my neighbour. I have no way of knowing if this happened, but things went quiet for a while so I like to think he got a talking-to.

    I have no interest in getting into any shouting matches with this ape. If I lease him the land for a very low price he can tell himself that he has got a bargain and that he has put one over on me. I'll get the lease signed, proving for once and for all that he acknowledges that I own the field, and that's all I want. I plan on donating the proceeds annually to the ISPCA anyway. When I tell him I've done that his ulcer will explode.

    There is a million ways you can prove you own it with out leasing it. You don’t need him to acknowledge any of them. Adverse possession is very difficult to attain. Simply by talking to the guard about it (assuming he entered it into the system) would reset the “clock” for anyone to claim it.


  • Registered Users Posts: 854 ✭✭✭beveragelady


    Jokes aside, I do appreciate the input I have received on this and other threads.
    I am well outside my area of expertise here, I repeatedly met dead ends when dealing with dept of ag staff to try to chase down information about my own land. Defeated, I would lose interest for a while until yer man did something to get me riled up again. That's why this saga has stretched out over a number of years. I have plenty of other things to occupy my mind, I don't spend my days fuming across a hedge at my neighbour.

    I understand why so many people are suggesting drastic action but I am consciously playing it safe.
    I don't have the sort of cash required to fence off the field at the moment. I just don't. I have no way of keeping his stock out of the field. If I could show you the layout you'd understand. I have no immediate need for the field either, so I don't care if it's grazed. The beehive is staking my claim for now, and he'd be a foolish man to attempt to disturb those particular bees. Every time I go down there I take pictures, hopefully resetting the clock on an adverse possession claim.

    I don't need income from the field and I don't need (or want) to sell it. I need a formal agreement that acknowledges that I own the field so he stops his stupid ploy of pretending he believes he has a right to it. If he thinks he has tricked me into leasing it for a low price I will consider that a victory of sorts as long as he signs the lease.

    I don't know if I mentioned this before on this thread but I planted hundreds of trees, (alder, hazel, willow and mountain ash) in that field one Easter. On my own with a spade, following advice from an EPA official. Not one of those trees remains. Not one. Some were crushed by the digger and all the rest appear to have been torn up by hand or damaged by cattle. I could lose my mind over the injustice of this or I could continue to enjoy the biodiversity that is still there and try to come up with another plan. The trees were free, I enjoyed the few days work of planting them, I have lost nothing really. I can't finance grand dramatic gestures, so I need to hold my ground and force him to accept that I'm not going to hand the field over to him. He's apoplectic over it, I am calm and bemused.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,898 ✭✭✭KOR101


    He's apoplectic over it, I am calm and bemused.
    Really sorry to hear that. Unfortunately these things often end only when someone goes too far.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 854 ✭✭✭beveragelady


    KOR101 wrote: »
    Really sorry to hear that. Unfortunately these things often end only when someone goes too far.

    You might be right but I won't be the one to take things too far.

    I should probably add that what we're talking about here is less than a hectare and a half of the most miserable, tussocky, swampy scrub land you can imagine.

    It's teeming with wildlife though, frogs and dragonflies and bats and hares and anything else you care to name. No hedgehogs as far as I can tell.

    Could anybody offer an estimate of the going rate to lease poor quality land?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,981 ✭✭✭Naggdefy


    I talked to a guard who said he would have the traditional 'quiet chat' with my neighbour. I have no way of knowing if this happened, but things went quiet for a while so I like to think he got a talking-to.

    I have no interest in getting into any shouting matches with this ape. If I lease him the land for a very low price he can tell himself that he has got a bargain and that he has put one over on me. I'll get the lease signed, proving for once and for all that he acknowledges that I own the field, and that's all I want. I plan on donating the proceeds annually to the ISPCA anyway. When I tell him I've done that his ulcer will explode.

    But he has got a bargain. A tenner a year.. I feel really sorry for you as you seem like a lovely lady. However you are being bullied. It's likely that if a big, thick individual, who he knew, would offer resistance, owned this land he'd behave himself. Gardai, solicitors are the only way to sort this. I'm born and bred in the hills and have seen this type of individual so many times.

    I don't mean to sound harsh as you are obviously a very good person and need support.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,981 ✭✭✭Naggdefy


    plow it

    No the lady should do what ever she intended doing with her land.

    Bullies have to be confronted eventually in a strong manner.

    OP do you feel isolated, threatened in any way? Has this fella a lot of relatives, standing in the community like 'great GAA man, community man'? Not belittling GAA, but some of these 'local legends' are main men in the community and it may make it feel harder to take them on.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 18,268 ✭✭✭✭uck51js9zml2yt


    I'd agree, get it ploughed. A contractor will do it and it won't cost the earth.
    Ploughed land won't be any good to him and he'll have no cattle on it.

    I've 4 acres and not a farmer but thankfully have some good neighbours who want to rent my land at a fair price and will look after it.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,553 ✭✭✭Ginger83


    Why would he rent what his cattle can graze on for free


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  • Registered Users Posts: 854 ✭✭✭beveragelady


    I'd agree, get it ploughed. A contractor will do it and it won't cost the earth.
    Ploughed land won't be any good to him and he'll have no cattle on it.

    I've 4 acres and not a farmer but thankfully have some good neighbours who want to rent my land at a fair price and will look after it.

    I understand the logic behind this suggestion but for a number of reasons it's not an option. Mainly because of the wildlife that's down there, but also because of finances and logistics. Also because it is an escalation in hostilities.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,981 ✭✭✭Naggdefy


    Also because it is an escalation in hostilities.

    Appeasement never ends well with bullies. Be it on an international scale or a field. It's all very fine saying you are content but you wouldn't have opened the thread unless you felt wronged.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,897 ✭✭✭CelticRambler


    If your interest in the land is more ecological than financial, would you consider leasing it for the same notional (even peppercorn) rent to a like-minded association, or a school, or some other non-profit organisation? With/without the condition that they put up a decent fence at their own expense. Outsource your irritation to a wider group - more people aware of exactly where the boundary is, and to take offence at wilful destruction if the same continues.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,181 ✭✭✭Lady Haywire


    ^ I was just thinking similar. Biodiversity Ireland etc? If you can explain to them about the wildlife & you only want it for bees, they may express some interest.
    I've no idea if they would or not but it's another direction to think about.


  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 40,351 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    Even in the interim, you should put up an electric fence to stop his cattle coming in and damaging the habitat. They wont knock the fence!


  • Registered Users Posts: 854 ✭✭✭beveragelady


    If your interest in the land is more ecological than financial, would you consider leasing it for the same notional (even peppercorn) rent to a like-minded association, or a school, or some other non-profit organisation? With/without the condition that they put up a decent fence at their own expense. Outsource your irritation to a wider group - more people aware of exactly where the boundary is, and to take offence at wilful destruction if the same continues.

    That's an idea. I could lay my cards on the table, tell them what I'm trying to do but I'm encountering difficulties and I need a bit of support. I would have no problem handing it over to them for the very long term, in fact. I'll try An Taisce and Biodiversity Ireland and see if they have any interest.
    Nobody else would possibly be interested in using the land. It's surrounded on all sides by my neighbour's land, it wouldn't be worth anybody's time.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,165 ✭✭✭893bet


    If it gets ploughed he will be back in it the following year.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,165 ✭✭✭893bet


    Nobody else would possibly be interested in using the land. It's surrounded on all sides by my neighbour's land, it wouldn't be worth anybody's time.

    That’s the key. He is a bully.

    How did it come to your ownership? Or rather was it ever in his family ownership?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,005 ✭✭✭selectamatic


    Left of field option for ya:

    If you live near any sound members of the travelling community you could set the land to them for a nominal fee for grazing for their horses.

    I'd bet your neighbour wouldn't have the stones to act the c#nt with the land then.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 641 ✭✭✭sportsfan90


    Left of field option for ya:

    If you live near any sound members of the travelling community you could set the land to them for a nominal fee for grazing for their horses.

    I'd bet your neighbour wouldn't have the stones to act the c#nt with the land then.

    You do realise the land is also right next to OP's house???


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,005 ✭✭✭selectamatic


    You do realise the land is also right next to OP's house???

    There's cattle grazing it at present. Horses ain't going to be much different.

    But I will admit the above suggestion was meant in a more tongue in cheek manner.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,996 ✭✭✭two wheels good


    Start a goFundMe page for the fence. You might get enough for a few tank traps as well.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,826 ✭✭✭✭Panthro


    Left of field option for ya:

    If you live near any sound members of the travelling community you could set the land to them for a nominal fee for grazing for their horses.

    I'd bet your neighbour wouldn't have the stones to act the c#nt with the land then.

    I don't think the way to put out the fire is to load it with gasoline somehow.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 641 ✭✭✭sportsfan90


    There's cattle grazing it at present. Horses ain't going to be much different.

    But I will admit the above suggestion was meant in a more tongue in cheek manner.

    It's not the horses I'd be worried about.

    Anyway OP fair play to you for standing up to him, land ownership can often be the cause of conflict in a way that can seem bizarre to non-farmers.

    For what it's worth, there's no way I'd be doing any deal with him whatsoever that would mean he has use of your land - it's less involvement you wan't with him, not more!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,005 ✭✭✭selectamatic


    Panthro wrote: »
    I don't think the way to put out the fire is to load it with gasoline somehow.

    Operation Rolling Thunder FTW


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 18,268 ✭✭✭✭uck51js9zml2yt


    893bet wrote: »
    If it gets ploughed he will be back in it the following year.

    What makes you think that.?

    Ploughing it establishes beyond question ownership and wildlife will come back in a couple of years.

    The time for placating him is past.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,165 ✭✭✭893bet


    What makes you think that.?

    Ploughing it establishes beyond question ownership and wildlife will come back in a couple of years.

    The time for placating him is past.

    What makes you think he wouldnt be back in a year.

    He not under the illusion he owns. If he was it would be him trying to get the OP out. He is trying to stake a claim and scare the Op off.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 18,268 ✭✭✭✭uck51js9zml2yt


    893bet wrote: »
    What makes you think that.?

    Ploughing it establishes beyond question ownership and wildlife will come back in a couple of years.

    The time for placating him is past.

    What makes you think he wouldnt be back in a year.

    He not under the illusion he owns. If he was it would be him trying to get the OP out. He is trying to stake a claim and scare the Op off.
    I'm sorry, but you made the statement. It's up to you to back it up.

    It would take a few years for vegetation to take hold again
    No good for grazing for a long time.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 18,268 ✭✭✭✭uck51js9zml2yt


    893bet wrote: »
    What makes you think that.?

    Ploughing it establishes beyond question ownership and wildlife will come back in a couple of years.

    The time for placating him is past.

    What makes you think he wouldnt be back in a year.

    He not under the illusion he owns. If he was it would be him trying to get the OP out. He is trying to stake a claim and scare the Op off.
    I'm sorry, but you made the statement. It's up to you to back it up.

    It would take a few years for vegetation to take hold again
    No good for grazing for a long time.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,165 ✭✭✭893bet


    I'm sorry, but you made the statement. It's up to you to back it up.

    It would take a few years for vegetation to take hold again
    No good for grazing for a long time.

    Have you even read the thread? It’s not a nice green pasture field. It’s scrub basically as it stands and he is already “grazing” it.

    Plough it and it will be full of various vegetation in a year and he will be there.
    Plough it and maybe he will stick a ring feeder in it and start outwintering cattle in it...who knows what he is capable of doing.

    Ploughing it will not make him understand he doesn’t own it based on his actions to date.


This discussion has been closed.
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