Scum cause bad crash on N7 thankfully only scum injured

Odhinn

mfceiling wrote: »

Funny they are quick to take to the airwaves when they feel there is a slight against them.
No need for that either.

..when they feel bias presumably. Going on threads like this and others, that must be most of the time.

end of the road

splinter65 wrote: »

Well I for one will be blaming you and your comrades EOTR, and quite loudly too, because it’s my considered opinion that you are quite a big part of the problem.

i'm no part of the problem, so your blame would be misplaced. who are my "comrades" by the way?

splinter65 wrote: »

Your an unashamed fan of Mr Paul Murphy TD.
Can you tell us anything about his justice reform policy, or any of the OBP/AAA Sinn Fein policies about crime because I really would be interested in voting for them , if, as you suggest, they have a get tough policy on repeat offenders, tagging, minimum sentencing etc?

i happened to agree with paul murphy on some issues, the water charges, but it's news to me that i'm an unashamed fan of him.

splinter65

end of the road wrote: »

i'm no part of the problem, so your blame would be misplaced. who are my "comrades" by the way?



i happened to agree with paul murphy on some issues, the water charges, but it's news to me that i'm an unashamed fan of him.

Many times I have read you refer to him as “our man” Paul..
Anyway, as you have twice referred to Irish people being responsible for this mess by consistently voting for FF/FG who consistently do nothing to improve a the current justice system, then surely you can refer us to the changes proposed by a party of your choice?

Galwayguy35

Odhinn wrote: »

..when they feel bias presumably. Going on threads like this and others, that must be most of the time.

Yeah poor old John and Martin, all alone against those nasty settled people who's taxes pay for the lifestyle of Travellers who contribute nothing to the country.

Funny how they have nothing to say about Travellers beating up and robbing old people living alone, how they have thousands to spend on bare knuckle fights even though they don't work and how they get new houses, wreck them and they taxpayers has to fork out for it to be repaired.

If there's resentment shown towards Travellers it's because people are sick of all the above going on year in year out.

Brian?

splinter65 wrote: »

You need to be very concerned EOTR because you’re quite correct.
There is a steadily rising group of citizens who feel that politicians and parties pushing the liberal values you espouse so passionately have left honest hard working citizens at the mercy of thugs who, you no doubt will deny, are sneering at you as you do vehemently fight to defend them from natural justice.
This year I predict that at least one thug will die at the hands of a man defending his family, and yes the family man will be charged and due process will commence, but I’m afraid that you and your “comrades” will have to take some blame for the tragic consequence of your persistent defense of the indefensible

This “group of citizens” may feel that way, but their feelings aren’t based in facts. Luckily laws aren’t made on reactionary feelings.

It’s perfectly legal for a person(I’m not sure why it has to be a man) to protect themselves and their property using reasonable force. No charges will be forth coming if reasonable force is used, it happens quite regularly despite this almost urban myth that you’ll be charged for protecting your home.

splinter65

Brian? wrote: »

This “group of citizens” may feel that way, but their feelings aren’t based in facts. Luckily laws aren’t made on reactionary feelings.

It’s perfectly legal for a person(I’m not sure why it has to be a man) to protect themselves and their property using reasonable force. No charges will be forth coming if reasonable force is used, it happens quite regularly despite this almost urban myth that you’ll be charged for protecting your home.

Some people feel that the laws as they stand no longer stand up to scrutiny and will have to be changed.
In a democracy it is possible for the people to have desicions reversed
We saw that with the water charges.
I do try my best to use he/she him/her in every post, I apologize if you were offended by the use of the male subject in the post you are referring to.

mfceiling

Odhinn wrote: »

..when they feel bias presumably. Going on threads like this and others, that must be most of the time.

Yeah it's ok to take to the airwaves when they feel there's been a slight against them but they disappear when there's violence or trouble caused by them.

I was working in a hotel during the summer and they had a travellers wedding (booked by a third party using a false name). At 4.30 on the Friday afternoon the women were drinking bottles of wine from paper bags and the men were noticeably drunk and aggressive. When we came into work early in the Saturday morning there was broken glass outside and the function room had been trashed. Staff had been threatened and the garda had been out a couple of times during the night.

I checked online for a couple of weeks after but there was no condemnation from pavee point or any other apologists for them.

Funny that.

Brian?

splinter65 wrote: »

Some people feel that the laws as they stand no longer stand up to scrutiny and will have to be changed.
In a democracy it is possible for the people to have desicions reversed
We saw that with the water charges.
I do try my best to use he/she him/her in every post, I apologize if you were offended by the use of the male subject in the post you are referring to.

“Some people feel”... rarely proceeds anything that can be proved rationally. Do you have any statistics for how many people feel this way? Do you have any specifics about which laws don’t stand up to scrutiny?

As far as I’m concerned, you’re fear mongering.

splinter65

Brian? wrote: »

“Some people feel”... rarely proceeds anything that can be proved rationally. Do you have any statistics for how many people feel this way? Do you have any specifics about which laws don’t stand up to scrutiny?

As far as I’m concerned, you’re fear mongering.

I don’t know why you would be afraid?
Afraid of what? Or whom?
If you want to believe that everyone is completely satisfied with our justice system and vulnerable people aren’t afraid of criminals with 20+ previous convictions out on early release or bail then that’s your prerogative.
But It’s clear to me that our bail laws need reforming and minimum sentencing would be a welcome improvement.
That’s my prerogative .

CeilingFly

Odhinn wrote: »

..when they feel bias presumably. Going on threads like this and others, that must be most of the time.

Unfortunately, verifiable FACTS are against them.

Less than 0.4% of the population consider themselves to be travellers.

14% of the male prison population are travellers

22% of the female prison population are travellers.

Sorry, but they are a group that has criminality running through their blood, hence they get zero sympathy from the vast majority of he population.

Omackeral

CeilingFly wrote: »

Unfortunately, verifiable FACTS are against them.

Less than 0.4% of the population consider themselves to be travellers.

14% of the male prison population are travellers

22% of the female prison population are travellers.

Sorry, but they are a group that has criminality running through their blood, hence they get zero sympathy from the vast majority of he population.

Somebody will be along to make the African American comparison soon.

Odhinn

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

Yeah poor old (...........) in year out.

Yep, that kind of thing.

Galwayguy35

Odhinn wrote: »

Yep, that kind of thing.

You can dismiss it all you want but everything I said is true even if you don't want to hear it.

Wibbs

Brian? wrote: »

It’s perfectly legal for a person(I’m not sure why it has to be a man) to protect themselves and their property using reasonable force.

The majority of the time it will be a man. Whatever chance a man without something like a shotgun has against intruders, contrary to Hollywood films a woman has next to no chance. Though why you felt the need to point out that part of the post is beyond me. Well, actually it's not.

falinn merking

I started this thread and I must say I find the second half of it quite a turn off.

Liberals/left wing vs racist/right wing having a back and forward points scoring match.

Is there a crime problem among the travelling community? Yes
Should we practice discrimination and hatred against a whole section of society? NO

Who should the Guards target? People commiting crime.

Who did the Guards target in the case that started this thread? People commiting crime.

Should the Guards target anybody committing serious crime regardless of background? Yes

Did the Guards do their very difficult job in this case? Yes

Is our Legal system in urgent need of radical reform? Yes

Is the right wing vs left wing nitpicking addressing the point above? NO

Is there any chance that we might come together and discuss the prospect of legal reform in an adult way? I hope so.

falinn merking

I am sure things like this breaks the heart of the Guards that do their job.

A man with the worst criminal record in Ireland has been jailed for 18 months after pleading guilty to careless driving causing the death of a teenager.

Eamon Lynch has almost 500 convictions which include 280 for traffic offences and 50 for burglary.


Thug Lynch was driving at 165kph when he ploughed into innocent Shane Patton near Drumkeen in July, 2012.

Father-of-three Lynch was drunk and had no driving license, valid NCT, tax or insurance on his car when he struck the 18 year old who had just completed his Leaving Cert.

Lynch fled to Northern Ireland following the tragedy.

However, just before Christmas he was extradited under a European arrest warrant to face trial for Mr Patton's death to which he pleaded guilty.

The court heard how Lynch, who is originally from Derry, was driving his Toyota Celica with his partner just after midnight on July 12th when the smash happened.

The entire smash was caught on the CCTV system of a local service station.

Garda forensic examiners estimated that Lynch was traveling at 165 kph on the main Ballybofey to Letterkenny Road which is governed by a 100kph speed limit.

Mr Patton, of Cloghroe, Drumkeen, emerged from a side road but Lynch was traveling so fast that he did not have time to take evasive action and smashed into the teenager.

All were rushed to Letterkenny University Hospital but Mr Patton was pronounced dead later.

Locking up serious repeat offenders for a very long time is what needs to happen in this country.

falinn merking

CeilingFly wrote: »

Unfortunately, verifiable FACTS are against them.

Less than 0.4% of the population consider themselves to be travellers.

14% of the male prison population are travellers

22% of the female prison population are travellers.

Sorry, but they are a group that has criminality running through their blood, hence they get zero sympathy from the vast majority of he population.

Ok unlike others I am not trying to shut you down.
What is YOUR solution?
Do you have a realistic and workable suggestion in mind?
I think those that are not involved will become involved if state backed discrimination is allowed.

Omackeral

Verpiss dich wrote: »

Liberals/left wing vs racist/right wing having a back and forward points scoring match.

Funny how you categorise and equate the different sides. Telling, in fact. Also inaccurate.

pablo128

Verpiss dich wrote: »

Ok unlike others I am not trying to shut you down.
What is YOUR solution?
Do you have a realistic and workable suggestion in mind?
I think those that are not involved will become involved if state backed discrimination is allowed.

They need the parents properly punished for not sending their kids to school. Like everyone else.

They need their dole cut if they are not looking for work. Like everyone else.

Those 2 alone would make a big difference.

falinn merking

Omackeral wrote: »

Funny how you categorise and equate the different sides. Telling, in fact. Also inaccurate.

No I am simplifying and generalising I think everybody can work out what I am talking about.
I don't even like those labels and I agree they are inaccurate but everybody understands them.

My point that the debate is just going in circles is accurate.

falinn merking

pablo128 wrote: »

They need the parents properly punished for not sending their kids to school. Like everyone else.

They need their dole cut if they are not looking for work. Like everyone else.

Those 2 alone would make a big difference.

Carrot and stick argument right there.
Your suggestions are all stick and no carrot.

I am not debating the rights and wrongs or the fairness what I have issue with is how workable this would be.

How many employers would be willing to hire for example?

MrJones1973

Everybody wants law and order. We all agree there? Yes? Calling people scum does not help. Lets face facts-we have one of the worst child inequality rates in EU. We allow Dolphins barn and think thats acceptable

We are all and I mean all descended from the poor.

We create a society based on acquisition. Materialism. We shower our young with images of pornography and violence. We shower them with a shallow lifestyle-a conor mcgregor grab it all baby lifesyle
We celebrate the sopranos
We celebrate love/Hate
We bombard with violent images
We then turn around and lynch mob a bunch of criminals?
I dont agree with their actions. Of course I dont
But you all sin in your own way-a different way
Do you pay full taxes?
Do you ever pay in cash?
Do you vote for political parties who dont fund mental health services
Who deny access to children to speech and language services? Waiting lists?
Parties who created the boom/crash?
Do you get angry when attempts are made to limit access to alcohol?
Im educated enough to accept arguments against all my points but a narrow tabloid-condemn them and hang them attitude
does no good

K.Flyer

A man with the worst criminal record in Ireland has been jailed for 18 months after pleading guilty to careless driving causing the death of a teenager.

Eamon Lynch has almost 500 convictions which include 280 for traffic offences and 50 for burglary.

And there my friends, in black and white shows you what is wrong with this country.
With almost 500 convictions he only gets 18 months for causing the death of a young teenager.
Life is cheap, and this judge, and judges before him have proved it by not keeping him off the streets.
Disgusting and sickening.
He probably would have gotten a harsher sentence for not paying the fine for not having a TV licence!

Omackeral

MrJones1973 wrote: »

We shower our young with images of pornography

Yeah don't do that.

falinn merking

MrJones1973 wrote: »

Everybody wants law and order. We all agree there? Yes? Calling people scum does not help. Lets face facts-we have one of the worst child inequality rates in EU. We allow Dolphins barn and think thats acceptable

We are all and I mean all descended from the poor.

We create a society based on acquisition. Materialism. We shower our young with images of pornography and violence. We shower them with a shallow lifestyle-a conor mcgregor grab it all baby lifesyle
We celebrate the sopranos
We celebrate love/Hate
We bombard with violent images
We then turn around and lynch mob a bunch of criminals?
I dont agree with their actions. Of course I dont
But you all sin in your own way-a different way
Do you pay full taxes?
Do you ever pay in cash?
Do you vote for political parties who dont fund mental health services
Who deny access to children to speech and language services?
Parties who created the boom/crash?
Do you get angry when attempts are made to limit access to alcohol?
Im educated enough to accept arguments against all my points but a narrow tabloid-condemn them and hang them attitude
does no good

And there we are a high quality post asking difficult questions.
Most of don't have most of the answers but we need to have the debate.:)

pablo128

Verpiss dich wrote: »

Carrot and stick argument right there.
Your suggestions are all stick and no carrot.

I am not debating the rights and wrongs or the fairness what I have issue with is how workable this would be.

How many employers would be willing to hire for example?

Why should there be a carrot? They have been mollycoddled that much that they're fcuking laughing at us now.

Treat them exactly the same as everyone else. That way they have nothing to whinge about.

falinn merking

K.Flyer wrote: »

And there my friends, in black and white shows you what is wrong with this country.
With almost 500 convictions he only gets 18 months for causing the death of a young teenager.
Life is cheap, and this judge, and judges before him have proved it by not keeping him off the streets.
Disgusting and sickening.
He probably would have gotten a harsher sentence for not paying the fine for not having a TV licence!

Like I said many pages back the legal system in this country is broken.
If the system worked it might put of many people from committing the crimes in the first place.

Notice I said many not all you would still need to lock up quite a number of individuals.

end of the road

mfceiling wrote: »

Yeah it's ok to take to the airwaves when they feel there's been a slight against them but they disappear when there's violence or trouble caused by them.

I was working in a hotel during the summer and they had a travellers wedding (booked by a third party using a false name). At 4.30 on the Friday afternoon the women were drinking bottles of wine from paper bags and the men were noticeably drunk and aggressive. When we came into work early in the Saturday morning there was broken glass outside and the function room had been trashed. Staff had been threatened and the garda had been out a couple of times during the night.

I checked online for a couple of weeks after but there was no condemnation from pavee point or any other apologists for them.

Funny that.

i assume pavee point were informed of the incident by the hotel?

falinn merking

pablo128 wrote: »

Why should there be a carrot? They have been mollycoddled that much that they're fcuking laughing at us now.

Treat them exactly the same as everyone else. That way they have nothing to whinge about.

I would love to live in a Groundhog day situation in which we all get six months in charge of the county the same six months lived over and over until one of us gets it right.
I would love to see how your idea would work out.
I don't think it would end up the way you intended.

pablo128

Verpiss dich wrote: »

I would love to live in a Groundhog day situation in which we all get six months in charge of the county the same six months lived over and over until one of us gets it right.
I would love to see how your idea would work out.
I don't think it would end up the way you intended.

Well the 2 things I mentioned works for the general population. Why wouldn't it work for travellers? Are they somehow different or should we treat them differently?

Do you know that they aren't required to show any effort whatsoever to find work, while other people on jobseekers allowance are?

falinn merking

pablo128 wrote: »

Well the 2 things I mentioned works for the general population. Why wouldn't it work for travellers? Are they somehow different or should we treat them differently?

Do you know that they aren't required to show any effort whatsoever to find work, while other people on jobseekers allowance are?

They have never been expected to before a sudden change like that is not going to be smooth sailing to say the very least.
How many employers are going to hire them?

If we close one door we have to open another.
A change like that would have to happen gradually.

Getting more travellers into the workplace would start the process of closing the rift between communities.
As more travellers came into the workplace more opportunities would open up.
As more travellers became engaged in the workplace younger traveller children would see this and become motivated to follow.

Right now there is very little trust on either side and I don't think there is any magic bullet to make it happen overnight.
One thing is for sure hateful rants will not achieve much.

Would you employ a traveller?

pablo128

Verpiss dich wrote: »

They have never been expected to before a sudden change like that is not going to be smooth sailing to say the very least.
How many employers are going to hire them?

If we close one door we have to open another.
A change like that would have to happen gradually.

Getting more travellers into the workplace would start the process of closing the rift between communities.
As more travellers came into the workplace more opportunities would open up.
As more travellers became engaged in the workplace younger traveller children would see this and become motivated to follow.

Right now there is very little trust on either side and I don't think there is any magic bullet to make it happen overnight.
One thing is for sure hateful rants will not achieve much.

Would you employ a traveller?

Personally I very much dislike them from personal experience, so no I wouldn't employ a traveller. However I work for a distributors in west Dublin with over 150 employees. Warehouse work basically. From speaking to HR c.v.s from travellers or women are almost non existent.

falinn merking

pablo128 wrote: »

Personally I very much dislike them from personal experience, so no I wouldn't employ a traveller. However I work for a distributors in west Dublin with over 150 employees. Warehouse work basically. From speaking to HR c.v.s from travellers or women are almost non existent.

So what happens the very rare CV they do get from travellers?

jelutong

Verpiss dich wrote: »

They have never been expected to before a sudden change like that is not going to be smooth sailing to say the very least.
How many employers are going to hire them?

If we close one door we have to open another.
A change like that would have to happen gradually.

Getting more travellers into the workplace would start the process of closing the rift between communities.
As more travellers came into the workplace more opportunities would open up.
As more travellers became engaged in the workplace younger traveller children would see this and become motivated to follow.

Right now there is very little trust on either side and I don't think there is any magic bullet to make it happen overnight.
One thing is for sure hateful rants will not achieve much.

Would you employ a traveller?

My neighbour and I employed settled travellers to lay our tarmac driveways etc.
The work was first class.

mfceiling

end of the road wrote: »

i assume pavee point were informed of the incident by the hotel?

I think the manageress had more to worry about than calling pavee point. They don't need to be "informed" when anyone dares to have to complain about their behaviour or when they feel bias or judgement against them - straight on to the airwaves and media to cry foul play. Not so quick to take to the same mediums when they leave a trail of destruction and chaos behind them.

Haven't heard them condemn the actions of the young fellow who was driving the vehicle at the heart of this story.

end of the road

mfceiling wrote: »

I think the manageress had more to worry about than calling pavee point. They don't need to be "informed" when anyone dares to have to complain about their behaviour or when they feel bias or judgement against them - straight on to the airwaves and media to cry foul play. Not so quick to take to the same mediums when they leave a trail of destruction and chaos behind them.

Haven't heard them condemn the actions of the young fellow who was driving the vehicle at the heart of this story.

pavee point can't take to the airwaves over an incident they don't know about. pavee point likely weren't asked onto the airwaves to talk about the incident that is the main subject of the thread. all of the talk shows are off the air for the holidays anyway.

pablo128

Verpiss dich wrote: »

So what happens the very rare CV they do get from travellers?

Not my problem or something I worry about. Its not up to me to be responsible for integrating travellers into the workplace.

I would imagine if 2 jobs are advertised and 50 cv's come in, their application is put in the bin along with 47 other peoples application.

Vizzy

end of the road wrote: »

pavee point can't take to the airwaves over an incident they don't know about. pavee point likely weren't asked onto the airwaves to talk about the incident that is the main subject of the thread. all of the talk shows are off the air for the holidays anyway.

They haven't been on to condemn this either

https://www.rte.ie/news/munster/2017/1230/930240-dead-horses-clonmel/

mfceiling

end of the road wrote: »

pavee point can't take to the airwaves over an incident they don't know about. pavee point likely weren't asked onto the airwaves to talk about the incident that is the main subject of the thread. all of the talk shows are off the air for the holidays anyway.

How come they are on the airwaves about bias or alleged slights against travellers but never to condemn violent or abusive behaviour?

I've listened to a lot of radio this year and I don't recall them being on to condemn violence, theft or dishonesty.

Maybe they've never heard of that kind of behaviour and probably only heard of the critism of the travelling community?

end of the road

mfceiling wrote: »

How come they are on the airwaves about bias or alleged slights against travellers but never to condemn violent or abusive behaviour?

I've listened to a lot of radio this year and I don't recall them being on to condemn violence, theft or dishonesty.

Maybe they've never heard of that kind of behaviour and probably only heard of the critism of the travelling community?

it's not their job to go on the airwaves just to suit you or to be seen to do so.

Vizzy

end of the road wrote: »

it's not their job to go on the airwaves just to suit you or to be seen to do so.

What is their job ?

Omackeral

end of the road wrote: »

it's not their job to go on the airwaves just to suit you or to be seen to do so.

What's their job?

mfceiling

end of the road wrote: »

it's not their job to go on the airwaves just to suit you or to be seen to do so.

What is their job?

Is it to fight injustice against travellers and to ignore all the fighting, theft and fraud that is committed by them?

I'll give you one thing EOTR....you're some man to defend the carry on from them.

end of the road

Vizzy wrote: »

What is their job ?

Omackeral wrote: »

What's their job?

their job is to fight against discrimination against the traveling community, and to attempt to bring them into society. their effectiveness at that job is certainly up for debate, but they are the best we have at the moment by the looks of it.

mfceiling wrote: »

What is their job?

Is it to fight injustice against travellers and to ignore all the fighting, theft and fraud that is committed by them?

I'll give you one thing EOTR....you're some man to defend the carry on from them.

can you give me examples of this defending you accuse me of? the reality is you won't be able to. you cannot stand the fact i'm realistic in terms of what can actually be done about the issues. so you therefore equate being realistic with defending the issues.

end of the road

end of the road wrote: »

it's not their job to go on the airwaves just to suit you or to be seen to do so.

They're an interest group who seeks funding/charity and will promote the cause of travelers to suit their own purposes. They're not going to highlight the crime consistent with traveller families or encourage any sense of personal responsibility for travellers. Why? Because the rule of thumb with these interest groups is to encourage the idea of the group being a victim.

Any reference or statistic used will not suggest the weaknesses of traveller culture. Instead, they will always seek to place the blame on others.

But you're right. It's not their job to go on the airwaves and answer the fears of the Irish people. It's their job to promote their own cause. Which is lack of responsibility for travellers for their own situation, and to gather more support for traveller related initiatives.

Vizzy

end of the road wrote: »

their job is to fight against discrimination against the traveling community, and to attempt to bring them into society. their effectiveness at that job is certainly up for debate, but they are the best we have at the moment by the looks of it.

So, their only role is to advocate on behalf of travellers and Roma ?
But to sit idly by when travellers or Roma commit crime ?

You are right about one thing, their effectiveness is certainly questionable. In fact, in my opinion, they are doing a disservice to law abiding travellers and Roma by staying silent when wrongdoing is obvious. This only plays into the mindset of those who are anti-traveller and makes the task of travellers integrating into settled society that bit harder.
If Pavee point was set up as an advocacy group by FG/FF you would be calling for their disbandment !!

Are Am Eye

Meanwhile in Darndale

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WSG-xByy5t4

falinn merking

pablo128 wrote: »

Not my problem or something I worry about. Its not up to me to be responsible for integrating travellers into the workplace.

I would imagine if 2 jobs are advertised and 50 cv's come in, their application is put in the bin along with 47 other peoples application.

So they should not really bother sending in anymore CVs then?

Vizzy

Verpiss dich wrote: »

So they should not really bother sending in anymore CVs then?

Course they should continue to send in CV's but if there are only 2 jobs, then 48 out of the 50 CV's will end up in the bin.

Donald Trump

rockatansky wrote: »

Is John Connors a thug??

Whatever else he gets up to, he was some man for the Terminators