The slow death of forums *see OP for Admin warning and update 28/02/18*

Ursus Horribilis

That all sounds fair. I must've missed that while reading through the thread

Calahonda52

anna080 wrote: »

I think if people need a template to guide them with respect to conversing civilly then they probably shouldn't be on the internet :pac:

internet planet

BBDBB

My thoughts

Users -
1)Stop being a dick
2) Be more tolerant, without voice tone or body language sometimes the written word doesnt mean the worst possible version of what you thought was said. So stop before your competitive streak makes you reply and think about what has been said


Mods

1) The clue is in the name - Moderation, sometimes all it takes is a gentle word
2) Stop trying to "organise" the fun, conversations go off topic in real life, those tangents are part of any discussion, they dont always need deleting/moving. If discussion has any value its in its freedom to roam

Thanks to all who make this place fun and interesting.

BBDBB

BBDBB wrote: »

My thoughts
............
............
Thanks to all who make this place fun and interesting.

You’d really enjoy the werewolf forum.

One of the greatest annoyances on boards is that threads are allowed to go on for 100+ pages, this is ridiculous it would be a lot better if it was kept to no more than about 50 pages max. Get the point and not rambling after rambling , off topic for 50 pages etc.

Next is the continuous repetitive Threads like, "The Catholic Church" "Middle lane Drivers"

Next comes over modding , Boards has to be the most over modded forum on Earth , there's just far too many !

I'd really like to see a thread limit of 50 pages.

KERSPLAT!

[Deleted User] wrote: »

One of the greatest annoyances on boards is that threads are allowed to go on for 100+ pages, this is ridiculous it would be a lot better if it was kept to no more than about 50 pages max. Get the point and not rambling after rambling , off topic for 50 pages etc.

Next is the continuous repetitive Threads like, "The Catholic Church" "Middle lane Drivers"

Next comes over modding , Boards has to be the most over modded forum on Earth , there's just far too many !

I'd really like to see a thread limit of 50 pages.

Just unsub from a thread you're done with.

_Dara_

bot44 wrote: »

Could do the same thing that happens on Reddit, initial post shows <deleted>. Or show <deleted account> instead of the posters name if you must preserve the content of initial posts in a thread.

Deleting usernames is fine but I hate the idea of deleting posts.

A huge part of why I don’t really use reddit is that often the threads are unreadable with gaps. I read many old threads on boards, it’s a fascinating archive. A huge plus of this site for me is the chronological format of threads and the fact that they remain intact for the most part. The option to delete posts would indeed make many old threads unreadable and worthless. And how would you deal with posts that quote deleted posts? The people who did the quoting might not want their posts deleted or edited in order to erase someone else’s footprint. And boards doesn’t hide the fact that posts can’t be deleted. People posted with the knowledge that this was the case.

Not everyone likes Reddit’s format. And Facebook is not a messageboard. I consider it to be in a separate category to forum sites.

KERSPLAT!

KERSPLAT! wrote: »

Just unsub from a thread you're done with.

Or from Boards.ie !

But seriously the threads are a complete mess most of the time, rambling on and on and on.

boards.ie needs to re-invent itself.

Calahonda52

KERSPLAT! wrote: »

Just unsub from a thread you're done with.

A facile response, symptomatic of the underlying malaise that permeates boards.ie at the higher levels

Rikand

Calahonda52 wrote: »

A facile response, symptomatic of the underlying malaise that permeates boards.ie at the higher levels

I'm disappointed that you gave up on the fancy words at the end of your post. I was expecting you to close with "upper echelons" or something equally high brow. Boards needs more fancy words!

Discodog

Deleted User wrote: »

One of the greatest annoyances on boards is that threads are allowed to go on for 100+ pages, this is ridiculous it would be a lot better if it was kept to no more than about 50 pages max. Get the point and not rambling after rambling , off topic for 50 pages etc.

Next is the continuous repetitive Threads like, "The Catholic Church" "Middle lane Drivers"

Next comes over modding , Boards has to be the most over modded forum on Earth , there's just far too many !

I'd really like to see a thread limit of 50 pages.

Says the person who posted on page 49 :pac:

Just stop reading if the content doesn't interest you anymore.

Beasty

It also depends what your page default is!

However there is no one-size fits all to thread length. We have an upper limit of 10,000 posts, but even then with the chat threads we start follow-ups

Try telling Liverpool or United fans that they must stop discussing a cup final that goes into extra-time at half time though? Think we'd have a bit of a backlash with that one.

CruelCoin

If new user retention is an issue, then you need to discourage behaviour that turns off the newbies.

Example: New User makes a thread and the first response is "been done before, use search, duuuuuh"

People making those statements need to get warnings and bans.

Asking a user to trawl through the search history before posting is crap, especially if the preceding thread is a zombie thread, which you shouldn't resurrect anyway)

LynnGrace

Would like to see opportunity for input to charter, obviously for a limited time, on individual fora. Not looking for an opportunity to attack mods, by the way, as most of them do a good job. Just feel that some forum mods and their fora would benefit from asking posters for input every now and again. Things change and the charters don't always keep up. It would possibly be a useful way to remind posters too of what is and is not acceptable.

Thanks for this thread, btw. It has been very constructive, overall, in my opinion.

New Users could be limited in the first say, 50 - 100 posts ? can't create threads for instance before a certain number of posts have been reached.

New Users could be made to post first in a " New User " thread with a list of rules as stickies at the top, where thy also introduce themselves.

A thread limit is necessary because people as stated above can't be expected to read through 100 pages, all relevant information is lost beyond a certain page and the thread has all sorts of topics mixed in with all sorts of opinions.

Tell me how

CruelCoin wrote:

Example: New User makes a thread and the first response is "been done before, use search, duuuuuh"

Asking a user to trawl through the search history before posting is crap, especially if the preceding thread is a zombie thread, which you shouldn't resurrect anyway)

Agree very much with this. Maybe if someone was inclined to respond dismissively, they instead could post a link to the existing "active thread" with a more welcoming tone.
Hard to see how Boards could create this behaviour though.

The search function is, umm, quirky to say the least.

Pepefrogok

Not constantly banning new members for the same reason then retracting it without apology would be cool.

pilly

Tell me how wrote: »

Agree very much with this. Maybe if someone was inclined to respond dismissively, they instead could post a link to the existing "active thread" with a more welcoming tone.
Hard to see how Boards could create this behaviour though.

The search function is, umm, quirky to say the least.

I did a search yesterday for Weather and the 1st post that came up was 6 years old!! What's the story with that?

GreeBo

Deleted User wrote: »

New Users could be limited in the first say, 50 - 100 posts ? can't create threads for instance before a certain number of posts have been reached.

New Users could be made to post first in a " New User " thread with a list of rules as stickies at the top, where thy also introduce themselves.

A thread limit is necessary because people as stated above can't be expected to read through 100 pages, all relevant information is lost beyond a certain page and the thread has all sorts of topics mixed in with all sorts of opinions.

I'd guess that a lot of new users join specifically to start a thread and ask a question, maybe not in AH but certainly in a lot of the other "knowledge based" forums.

Adding a restriction like above would stop many people from bothering to sign up.

GreeBo

pilly wrote: »

I did a search yesterday for Weather and the 1st post that came up was 6 years old!! What's the story with that?

Sorted by "most relevant" (which may be weighted based on size of thread etc)

Just sort by newest first if thats what you want.

Quazzie

pilly wrote: »

I did a search yesterday for Weather and the 1st post that came up was 6 years old!! What's the story with that?

You Laugh You Lose threads are among the most popular across the whole site, but when you search for "you laugh you lose" you don't get the current thread, or even any of the older ones either. In fact you've to go to the second page of results to find even an old one.

The search function on Boards.ie just doesn't work, and it's not an issue anyone in the offices tend to give any fucks about

Beasty

I don't know how it works, but for me it only seems to recognise the first two words of a search term, and I try to include the 2 words that are least likely to result in alternatives to what I'm looking for.

GreeBo

Quazzie wrote: »

You Laugh You Lose threads are among the most popular across the whole site, but when you search for "you laugh you lose" you don't get the current thread, or even any of the older ones either. In fact you've to go to the second page of results to find even an old one.

The search function on Boards.ie just doesn't work, and it's not an issue anyone in the offices tend to give any fucks about

Thats probably because the threads are not called "You laugh you lose"

Did you try searching for YLYL?
Second result.

Ken.

A mentor program might be something worth exploring.
Members of long standing sign up to be mentors to new users. When a new person signs up they can pick a box to take a mentor. If they tick they get randomly assigned a mentor whom they can pm for help.

Mentors would have their own forum with access for them and admins only. Mods of forums could be given access to help on a case by case basis.

whoopsadoodles

[Deleted User] wrote: »

New Users could be limited in the first say, 50 - 100 posts ? can't create threads for instance before a certain number of posts have been reached.

New Users could be made to post first in a " New User " thread with a list of rules as stickies at the top, where thy also introduce themselves.

A thread limit is necessary because people as stated above can't be expected to read through 100 pages, all relevant information is lost beyond a certain page and the thread has all sorts of topics mixed in with all sorts of opinions.

You've said that you think the place is overmoderated but the only changes you want made are extra moderation?

animaal

The biggest strength of boards is its local focus. If I want to sample opinions of some new video game, I won't think to go to Boards first. But if I want to see some opinions of an Irish matter, Boards will usually be my first port of call. I would guess that the number of visitors to Boards sees a huge increase around the time of any referendum or big scandal.

For me, the biggest weakness of Boards is over moderation in some cases, and biased moderation in other cases. There are certain topics that affect me in day to day life, but I wouldn't dream of visiting the relevant forums on Boards. I'd rather not mention specific forums/Mods, but let's make up an example - a forum titled "juggling". It has many regular members who are fanatical jugglers. Anybody who starts a thread that's in any way critical of juggling, or particular jugglers, or references an external article that's critical of juggling, is attacked. That's if the thread is left open for long enough by the moderator, who himself is a juggler. As a result, that forum is a general discussion area for enthusiastic jugglers, rather than a home for discussion of general juggling-centric topics.

Scotty #

I don't think it has anything to do with mod'ing or the search function, etc, etc...

Boards.ie is just another form of social media but bulletin boards have become quite dated compared to what's out there these days. They're just not phone friendly enough. I bet the drop in figures also correspond with the rise in mobile visitors.

Jerry Mac

Conspectus wrote: »

A mentor program might be something worth exploring.
Members of long standing sign up to be mentors to new users. When a new person signs up they can pick a box to take a mentor. If they tick they get randomly assigned a mentor whom they can pm for help.

Mentors would have their own forum with access for them and admins only. Mods of forums could be given access to help on a case by case basis.

You would want to be having nothing happening in your real life to devote time like that.

GreeBo

Jerry Mac wrote: »

You would want to be having nothing happening in your real life to devote time like that.

Its also the polar opposite to the attitude taken by the more modern sites that many believe are taking traffic from boards.

CruelCoin

Jerry Mac wrote: »

You would want to be having nothing happening in your real life to devote time like that.

Mentor programs are proven winners in areas where new-user retention is poor.

Eve Online as a game for example has a terrible new player experience, and ever since the introduction of the mentor program, retention has shot up.

Some people just like helping and supporting the activity they enjoy.

Fr_Dougal

Conspectus wrote: »

A mentor program might be something worth exploring.
Members of long standing sign up to be mentors to new users. When a new person signs up they can pick a box to take a mentor. If they tick they get randomly assigned a mentor whom they can pm for help.

Mentors would have their own forum with access for them and admins only. Mods of forums could be given access to help on a case by case basis.

Beasty

I don't think the mentor idea is a bad idea in principle, but do wonder about its practicalities

An alternative thought I would have would be to encourage new posters to perhaps drop a line to a local mod who can given them a bit of guidance on posting in a particular forum. Equally I don't think it would work in very popular forums like AH, but some of the smaller specialist forums would benefit from a welcoming note from a mod (who probably does not have a great deal to do in terms of other modding tasks). It's not something I would look to impose, but perhaps encourage. Maybe some of the charters can have an extra "welcome to new posters" note.

GreeBo

Beasty wrote: »

I don't think the mentor idea is a bad idea in principle, but do wonder about its practicalities

An alternative thought I would have would be to encourage new posters to perhaps drop a line to a local mod who can given them a bit of guidance on posting in a particular forum. Equally I don't think it would work in very popular forums like AH, but some of the smaller specialist forums would benefit from a welcoming note from a mod (who probably does not have a great deal to do in terms of other modding tasks). It's not something I would look to impose, but perhaps encourage. Maybe some of the charters can have an extra "welcome to new posters" note.

Wonder would it be possible to make all forums Access Request only, but that requests are automatically granted?

That way mods could get lists of names of people who are interested in posting in their forum and perhaps drop them a welcome note?

Calahonda52

CruelCoin wrote: »

Mentor programs are proven winners in areas where new-user retention is poor.

Eve Online as a game for example has a terrible new player experience, and ever since the introduction of the mentor program, retention has shot up.

Some people just like helping and supporting the activity they enjoy.

It's horses for courses
many of the subforms work very well on this "like helping" basis.

What this thread is about, primarily, is the discussion type subforms where folk do everything from spleen venting to downright libellous racist, misogynistice, etc etc carry on.

Tell me how

GreeBo wrote:

That way mods could get lists of names of people who are interested in posting in their forum and perhaps drop them a welcome note?

Excessive work for mods I think.

This is real life (of sorts). Ask a question if you have it, if not, live and let live and if someone points something out to you, take it on board.

If something has to be done. Every forum has a charter already, maybe edit those to be more receptive for new users and have access granted after it has been read.

GreeBo

Tell me how wrote: »

Excessive work for mods I think.

This is real life (of sorts). Ask a question if you have it, if not, live and let live and if someone points something out to you, take it on board.

If something has to be done. Every forum has a charter already, maybe edit those to be more receptive for new users and have access granted after it has been read.

Mods dont have to welcome new users, but would at least be alerted to an influx of new people. In fact you could have a forum specific welcome message automatically sent to users with links to charter/stickies etc.

It would be more geared towards the niche forums rather than generic AH/politics type.

Tell me how wrote: »

This is real life (of sorts). Ask a question if you have it, if not, live and let live and if someone points something out to you, take it on board.

Anonymity makes it not real life at all.

Beasty

GreeBo wrote: »

Wonder would it be possible to make all forums Access Request only, but that requests are automatically granted?

That way mods could get lists of names of people who are interested in posting in their forum and perhaps drop them a welcome note?

My concern would be that some people may run a mile at the prospect of receiving an "automatic" PM from a stranger simply for registering an interest in a topic.

I think though that a general welcoming note and an invitation to contact a mod if they have any questions or would like guidance on posting would hopefully encourage more to engage with the mods. Hopefully that also results in less requirement to intervene in a formal manner. It personalises things in a way that should improve overall interaction in a forum. You are more likely to contribute in a positive manner if you've had that personal interaction with an "official" within the forum

retro:electro

Do new posters want to be mentored though? TBH I think that's an implementation that's likely to turn a lot of potential new posters away from registering. It sounds a bit, patronising?

anna080

anna080 wrote: »

Do new posters want to be mentored though? TBH I think that's an implementation that's likely to turn a lot of potential new posters away from registering. It sounds a bit, patronising?

It totally does, and I would have turned away immediately.

It's a bit insulting to suggest people might need mentoring and guidance...to post on a forum! It's not homework or a training scheme.

Buford T. Justice XIX

Beasty wrote: »

I don't think the mentor idea is a bad idea in principle, but do wonder about its practicalities

An alternative thought I would have would be to encourage new posters to perhaps drop a line to a local mod who can given them a bit of guidance on posting in a particular forum. Equally I don't think it would work in very popular forums like AH, but some of the smaller specialist forums would benefit from a welcoming note from a mod (who probably does not have a great deal to do in terms of other modding tasks). It's not something I would look to impose, but perhaps encourage. Maybe some of the charters can have an extra "welcome to new posters" note.

F&F have a welcome sticky for new posters and returning older posters...

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057259215

I don't know if it helps retention rates or not, tbh, but newer posters can post their info there and get a welcome from established members and if they ask for information, posters will already be somewhat familiar with their farm and system before replying.

Pintman Paddy Losty

Buford T. Justice V wrote: »

F&F have a welcome sticky for new posters and returning older posters...

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057259215

I don't know if it helps retention rates or not, tbh, but newer posters can post their info there and get a welcome from established members and if they ask for information, posters will already be somewhat familiar with their farm and system before replying.

To be fair F&F seems to be a very well run forum.

I'd put it down to the mods being active in the community and letting discussions flow. A lot of the threads seem to be general chat, which is what makes a good forum in my opinion.

It's when you have forum mods stringently enforcing rules and worrying about 'the standard of posting' or 'off-topic chat' or being concerned about a thread being 'de-railed' that you end up smothering discussion and the forum dies a death.

Boards.ie: Mark

We've tried to make the site more open to new users (and I'm sure more could be done) with things like lowering the restriction on posting links and images. So we are trying to avoid restricting content and features where possible. The mentoring is an interesting idea, but it could be an issue of practicalities.

Revisiting the Private Message that users get when they join is something that we can look at. There's also a notice that tells new users (displayed until they have 5 posts or dismiss it - perhaps we should increase that limit a little, but still have it dismissable) about a couple of different forums and links. I will add a link to Private Message me or e-mail the office if they have questions about how the site / a certain forum works - can extend this to mods and Admins too.

Here is what it currently says (as most of you will have no way to readily check it; there are links to the various forums, but ye know how to get to them. I have, however, added the hyperlink to the full index of topics here just in case it's useful to any of ye):

Welcome to Boards.ie; here are some tips and tricks to help you get started.

Boards.ie is a discussion board with a wide range of forums, including - but not limited to - Soccer, Weather, Bargain Alerts, Fitness, Motors, Farming & Forestry, Cycling, Fashion & Appearance, Politics, Food & Drink, and everything in between. There's also After Hours, one of the busier forums on Boards.ie, which takes a more lighthearted approach to many topics. The drop down menu at the top will help you find a topic of interest or you can browse the full index of Topics.

So, what are you waiting for? Get out there and share your passion with others! If you have any questions about the site, head over to the Newbies & FAQ forum. Remember, you may not agree with everything you read (and people may not agree with your viewpoint), but you can talk it out as long as you attack the post and not the poster.

Useful Links:
• Top 10 Questions and Answers for new Boards.ie users
• How to start a thread
• FAQ for everything after the basics
• Boards.ie Guidelines

Buford T. Justice XIX

Pintman Paddy Losty wrote: »

To be fair F&F seems to be a very well run forum.

I'd put it down to the mods being active in the community and letting discussions flow. A lot of the threads seem to be general chat, which is what makes a good forum in my opinion.

It's when you have forum mods stringently enforcing rules and worrying about 'the standard of posting' or 'off-topic chat' or being concerned about a thread being 'de-railed' that you end up smothering discussion and the forum dies a death.

F&F has a solid community there which doesn't happen without the posters buying into the community ethos, though.

That's not to say there aren't arguments or posters disliking each other but the other posters, in fairness to them, sort out a lot of the issues there themselves before mods would need to get involved.

We would rarely have to come down hard on posters who flout the rules as the lack of interaction from other posters would move them on fairly quickly anyway.

But I would guess the average age profile would be older than for a lot of the other forums also.

Beasty

Buford T. Justice V wrote: »

But I would guess the average age profile would be older than for a lot of the other forums also.

You said it Grandad :pac:

Neyite

anna080 wrote: »

Do new posters want to be mentored though? TBH I think that's an implementation that's likely to turn a lot of potential new posters away from registering. It sounds a bit, patronising?

When I was a new user, I wanted to lurk a bit before I joined in discussions. Welcoming new posters is a bit like the on-line equivalent of going into a shop and a shop assistant immediately swooping down on you and asking if they can help you with anything. Personally I hate that and it usually makes me leave a shop faster!

I think mentoring for new mods is a good idea though. When I joined PI as a newbie mod in 2012, the mod team were brilliant mentors to me, and I think it helped us be consistent as a team - and that's fairer on the users too.

A few years ago we also had a look at our charter and updated it. Some of the stuff was legacy stuff there as a rule but newer mods had no idea why it was in the charter. So revisiting the charter, talking it through and making it relevant to today's userbase helped us understand better.

We also took a look at how we as mods worded our mod warnings, how we use tone - or rather, look at how that tone comes across and made more of an effort to use less bold, be friendlier and less authoritarian in our mod on thread warnings, and it's worked very well in PI.

So I'd like to see mod workshops like that for more forums. Kind of standing back and looking at the forum with fresh eyes, drawing on what the users are telling you. Look at what you do well, look at what you don't. Look at other forums who's mods do a good job/ where users enjoy the forum and see if any methods or practices could be adopted to benefit your forum.

Mods are the janitors of forums really. Our job is to make the place welcoming, clean up messes, put things in the right place and ticking over for the users with the odd nudge to the person who forgets to wipe their feet.

Ken.

I did say their would be a box to tick. I'm just thinking of when my daughter signed up 2 years ago to browse the leaving cert forum. She would have been lost if I didn't give her a hand.

GreeBo

Conspectus wrote: »

I did say their would be a box to tick. I'm just thinking of when my daughter signed up 2 years ago to browse the leaving cert forum. She would have been lost if I didn't give her a hand.

+1

you only have to see the number of posts like "Hi, I need advice on buying a car" that have been posted in AH or Rugby or somewhere random.

In the beginning its *not* obvious where to post.

Neyite

GreeBo wrote: »

+1

you only have to see the number of posts like "Hi, I need advice on buying a car" that have been posted in AH or Rugby or somewhere random.

In the beginning its *not* obvious where to post.

Ok but that's easily solved with this:

Mod:
Hi Op, I've moved your thread to a place where you should get better answers to your question

Or even the users could be nice and reply to the newbie that they posted in a rugby forum and while they are welcome to stay if they are also a rugby fan, that [insert link] is a better forum for their query.

In short, we could all help a newbie find their feet as a poster.

Wearb

My input: Keep post count, and charters. They both help with modding.

I don't think prison should be public. Troublemakers are learning how to re-reg from info there. I have also noticed the nice appeasing and well mannered appeals, ending in "it's no wonder Boards is going down the drain", when a ban is upheld.

My two cents worth.

Wearb

Wearb wrote: »

My input: Keep post count, and charters. They both help with modding.

I don't think prison should be public. Troublemakers are learning how to re-reg from info there. I have also noticed the nice appeasing and well mannered appeals, ending in "it's no wonder Boards is going down the drain", when a ban is upheld.

My two cents worth.

I would also like a reduction to to the time restriction allowed for editing posts. Also edited posts should have something very clear to show that the post has been edited.
Ideally. I would like it removed altogether and a (charter) suggestion that the best way to edit a post is for the poster to reply to their own post. This means that the post is in the newer part of the thread.
Otherwise posters would need to read back all posts under 48 hours ago to keep up to date with all changes.

EDITED to remove my signiture. :pac::pac::pac: