The slow death of forums *see OP for Admin warning and update 28/02/18*

Outlaw Pete

Beasty wrote: »

I think one of the problems with AH, and it's something that's relevant across the site, is that people are always looking to take offence.

I think that is a huge issue for sure and it was something which started the downfall of this forum in my view. Eight years back you would often see that there was around 2500 'currently active users' in AH. Now, you don't see anything like that. I know things change and message boards aren't as popular as they were, but I'm not so sure that tells the whole story tbf. Clearly there was something users liked here, and which changed, for them to vacate in the numbers that they did and, in my view, Beasty has highlighted what I feel was one of the main contributing factors there and that was that users began taking offence and demanding that something was done about it and quite often, it was.

The sheer numbers of posts being reported makes it difficult for mods to judge where to draw the line.

With respect, I don't see why. Personally abusive posts are often ignored and yet trivial nonsense that could easily be dealt with via a thread warning, result in bans. No matter how many reported posts there are, I fail to see why or how it could cause the level of inconsistency we see. Tbh, it screams lack of communication to me. You see some great moderation calls on one thread, where each side gets treated the same, none of it ott, and then half an hour later on another thread you'll see some crazy calls which make zero sense with regards to consistency and fairness.

I accept there has been additional scrutiny applied and action taken on the back of the increasing number of reports, but in my view it's as much the userbase driving that as any of the "powers that be".

But the userbase used to take their lead primarily from what they saw moderated. I seen this post recently asking users to stop reporting posts trying to get other users banned and while I thanked it, I do think it was telling that such a post was felt warranted in the first place. Users shouldn't feel that reporting posts would have an affect unless that is, the user they are reporting has clearly broken a rule. Don't be under any illusion that there aren't users that know fine well that if they report en masse, and get the right mod working a shift, that they will get their way, as there truly are.

I do think though that running a "Current Affairs" forum alongside AH is worth a try. Hopefully that will allow AH to become more of a "fun" place again, while some of the more serious topics can still be discussed in a new forum with a little more "freedom" and "light-heartedness" than we currently see in the 2 Politics forums

It's too late, Beasty. Maybe back around 2011 there was enough traffic for that but not now and the name no longer fits what After Hours has become. A Flutt thread would no longer be welcome here and Feeky has kids of his own, time to move on. What the name would even conjure up in the mind of a newbie wouldn't be anything to close to what they'd find here now and so it's really false advertising in a sense. Just rename it 'General Discussion' and tagline it as is deemed necessary. Just my opinion of course.

Putinbot wrote: »

I like your Current affairs idea but it doesn't seem to be getting much support.

Didn't when The Muppet had it either but I think he made some good points at the time, many of which would still be relevant today, 13 years later.

The Muppet wrote: »

Current Affairs can be discussed in all those forum so anyone that has an interest ina particular current affair has to browse through all those to see the topics being discussed . Would it not be beneficial to have one General Forum to discuss all current non political Issues.

I have an idea. Tags for AH. Just 2 of them. Each thread will be tagged either "fun" or "serious"

Good idea, but I think it would work much better in a 'General Discussion' forum.

Maybe have an [After Hours] thread tag option for old time sake.

Dyr

Outlaw Pete wrote: »

Beasty has highlighted what I feel was one of the main contributing factors there and that was that users began taking offence and demanding that something was done about it and quite often, it was.
.

You also had a few past mods in there who decided the place should be an extension of their own purse clutching personality. I think a lot of businesses are figuring out that in trying to appease the whingers and perpetually offended minority you will never satisfy them but you will drive eveyone else away. It's box office poison

mzungu

Discodog wrote: »

But the numbers are bound to decline. There wasn't the competition in the good old days that there is now

I don't doubt that the landscape changed, but things never stay the same and are constantly evolving. The post I was replying to referred more to content as opposed to numbers on the site.

Yer Da sells Avon

I've just read a thread about Travellers and have reported the most racist posts. Mainly the really nasty ones - the kind of posts that, if they referred to any other group, would probably result in a ban. I wonder if anything will be done, or if I'm just wasting the mods' time.

Dyr

Hapax Legomenon wrote: »

I've just read a thread about Travellers and have reported the most racist posts. Mainly the really nasty ones - the kind of posts that, if they referred to any other group, would probably result in a ban. I wonder if anything will be done, or if I'm just wasting the mods' time.

Feb 2018 join date "Hi everyone I'm new here and I've just gone through an entire thread to report every post that I don't like, I just know I'm going to be a valuable asset to this community"

F**k... give it a few years and they'll make you a mod

Boom_Bap

After Hours evolved over the years based on the content creators.
Basically, it used to be a case where someone would start a thread about for example how they tasted their partners fart. The thread would evolve into the different tastes of farts people have sampled and the most unusual locations of tasting.

Nowadays if someone started a thread on tasting someones fart by accident, the person would be blamed for being in the wrong place, insensitive to the plight of people with bowel conditions and something about immigration sprinkled in.

There is no way to resolve this. Opening a new forum to shift the problem to is not the way, although I'd be happy to be proven wrong on that.

Posters in AH just need to lighten up and not come in for a scrap.

CruelCoin

Boom_Bap wrote: »

Nowadays if someone started a thread on tasting someones fart by accident, the person would be blamed for being in the wrong place, insensitive to the plight of people with bowel conditions and something about immigration sprinkled in.

Not all the blame, if thats the correct word, lies with the users either.
Such a thread would never survive in the wild for more than a few minutes before the SJW mods come down on it.

Yer Da sells Avon

Bambi wrote: »

Feb 2018 join date "Hi everyone I'm new here and I've just gone through an entire thread to report every post that I don't like, I just know I'm going to be a valuable asset to this community"

F**k... give it a few years and they'll make you a mod

I'm not new here, but what has my join date got to do with anything? Why do people have to make cheap, shitty digs like that?

There are lots of posts that I 'don't like' in that thread. I only reported the worst ones. Do you have a problem with that? Do you think, for example, it's acceptable to call Travellers "knackers"? Do you think it's acceptable to call for them to be "removed from the face of the earth"?

Hapax Legomenon

Hapax Legomenon wrote: »

I'm not new here, but what has my join date got to do with anything? Why do people have to make cheap, shitty digs like that?

There are lots of posts that I 'don't like' in that thread. I only reported the worst ones. Do you have a problem with that? Do you think, for example, it's acceptable to call Travellers "knackers"? Do you think it's acceptable to call for them to be "removed from the face of the earth"?

Isn't a knacker just a criminal traveller? If it's used in that context, it's grand. Though there's no travellers where I'm from so I'm not so hot on what I can and cannot say.

As to the second one, if you really think he was trying to incite someone into firing a bunch of travellers into space, contact the guards.

GreeBo

Hapax Legomenon wrote: »

I'm not new here, but what has my join date got to do with anything? Why do people have to make cheap, shitty digs like that?

There are lots of posts that I 'don't like' in that thread. I only reported the worst ones. Do you have a problem with that? Do you think, for example, it's acceptable to call Travellers "knackers"? Do you think it's acceptable to call for them to be "removed from the face of the earth"?

Whats wrong with "knackers"?
I would wager that more of them dispose of dead animals than "travel", so arguably its a more accurate description.

BTW, I think you should have said "itinerants" if you wanted to maintain your lead position on the high horse...

Yer Da sells Avon

Deleted User wrote: »

Isn't a knacker just a criminal traveller? If it's used in that context, it's grand. Though there's no travellers where I'm from so I'm not so hot on what I can and cannot say.

As to the second one, if you really think he was trying to incite someone into firing a bunch of travellers into space, contact the guards.

Advocating the deaths of ethnic groups that you don't like used to be unacceptable on Boards.

GreeBo

Hapax Legomenon wrote: »

Advocating the deaths of ethnic groups that you don't like used to be unacceptable on Boards.

"Deaths"?
I think you interpreted that incorrectly.
The just OP wants to afford them a place on Ireland's newly formed space programme.

CruelCoin

Hapax Legomenon wrote: »

Do you think, for example, it's acceptable to call Travellers "knackers"?

Why not? It's what they did/do.

Have you an issue with them being called "Tinkers" for example? Because, again, it's what they did/do.

I wonder, if knacker is for dead horse removal, and tinker is short for one who works with tin, I wonder what "removes power tools from locked sheds" should be abbreviated to?

Hapax Legomenon

Hapax Legomenon wrote: »

Advocating the deaths of ethnic groups that you don't like used to be unacceptable on Boards.

"Thieving gypsies, unworthy of any protected status; a law unto themselves and morally empty - should be removed from the face of the earth."


If you want to go turning that into a call for ethnic cleansing, instead of the rant you know it was, you're just coming across as a moaner. We know you know what he meant, and we know you're pretending to not know so you can get your daily dose of outrage. You guys are just addicted to this feeling and go chasing it.

Yer Da sells Avon

Maybe one of the mods might clarify whether it's ok to use racist terms like 'knacker' on Boards nowadays, and whether we're free to adopt the language of the Nazis when talking about ethnic groups that we happen to dislike.

Hapax Legomenon

Hapax Legomenon wrote: »

Maybe one of the mods might clarify whether it's ok to use racist terms like 'knacker' on Boards nowadays, and whether we're free to adopt the language of the Nazis when talking about ethnic groups that we happen to dislike.

Why not go into the thread itself and defend their ethnic culture?

Dyr

Hapax Legomenon wrote: »

Maybe one of the mods might clarify whether it's ok to use racist terms like 'knacker' on Boards nowadays, and whether we're free to adopt the language of the Nazis when talking about ethnic groups that we happen to dislike.

I'm pretty sure the Nazi's never called anyone a Knacker

Yer Da sells Avon

Bambi wrote: »

I'm pretty sure the Nazi's never called anyone a Knacker

I don't know if you're being willfully obtuse, or...

Never mind.

Dyr

Hapax Legomenon wrote: »

I don't know if you're being willfully obtuse, or...

Never mind.

I'm bestowing upon you the appropriate level of engagement that your high horseying warrants

Yer Da sells Avon

Hapax Legomenon wrote: »

Maybe one of the mods might clarify whether it's ok to use racist terms like 'knacker' on Boards nowadays, and whether we're free to adopt the language of the Nazis when talking about ethnic groups that we happen to dislike.

I would genuinely love to hear the opinion of a mod on this. Is it acceptable to say 'knacker' on Boards? Are other racial epithets acceptable now too?

Maybe we could even start calling racists 'racists' without getting infracted or thread banned...

Hapax Legomenon

Hapax Legomenon wrote: »

I would genuinely love to hear the opinion of a mod on this. Is it acceptable to say 'knacker' on Boards? Are other racial epithets acceptable now too?

Maybe we could even start calling racists 'racists' without getting infracted or thread banned...

Perhaps online forums aren't the place for you if you cry out to mods instead of just clicking Ignore next to posters you don't like.

Yer Da sells Avon

Deleted User wrote: »

Perhaps online forums aren't the place for you if you cry out to mods instead of just clicking Ignore next to posters you don't like.

All I'm doing is asking them a simple question.

Hapax Legomenon

Hapax Legomenon wrote: »

All I'm doing is asking them a simple question.

No, you're not. If you wanted to ask the question, you'd PM a mod.

All you're doing is seeking outrage, which is fitting for the thread and what posters like yourself are doing to After Hours.

Yer Da sells Avon

Deleted User wrote: »

No, you're not. If you wanted to ask the question, you'd PM a mod.

All you're doing is seeking outrage, which is fitting for the thread and what posters like yourself are doing to After Hours.

Any one of them could answer on here if they wanted to. I'm sure they will.

Beasty

Hapax Legomenon wrote: »

I would genuinely love to hear the opinion of a mod on this. Is it acceptable to say 'knacker' on Boards? Are other racial epithets acceptable now too?

Maybe we could even start calling racists 'racists' without getting infracted or thread banned...

Over 7,000 references in AH alone, although the search function does include references to variations of the word such as "knackered"

Now yes many people find it an offensive term, and some consider it racist. When we talk about the "slow death of forums", one of the biggest factors highlighted is the relentless move towards a more politically correct world

Just to add, it's not a term I would use, but equally when it comes to moderation context rather than the exact word(s) used is more important

Hapax Legomenon

Hapax Legomenon wrote: »

Any one of them could answer on here if they wanted to. I'm sure they will.

You'd get better answers if you posted in the current travellers thread. You don't have any posts there but have apparently trawled it to report posts.

Yer Da sells Avon

Beasty wrote: »

Over 7,000 references in AH alone, although the search function does include references to variations of the word such as "knackered"

Now yes many people find it an offensive term, and some consider it racist. When we talk about the "slow death of forums", one of the biggest factors highlighted is the relentless move towards a more politically correct world

Just to add, it's not a term I would use, but equally when it comes to moderation context rather than the exact word(s) used is more important

Yes, context matters. But in the very specific context of calling members of the Travelling community 'knackers', is it acceptable on Boards?

pjohnson

Hapax Legomenon wrote: »

Yes, context matters. But in the very specific context of calling members of the Travelling community 'knackers', is it acceptable on Boards?

Report it love and let the mods take action. If nothing happens theres your answer.

Omackeral

Hapax Legomenon wrote: »

Yes, context matters. But in the very specific context of calling members of the Travelling community 'knackers', is it acceptable on Boards?

Anyone that behaves like a knacker can be called a knacker. A knacker is a scumbag. Act like a scumbag, be prepared to be branded a knacker. Settled fella acting like a knacker? You’re a knacker. Travelling fella acting like a knacker? You’re a knacker. That’s what it is to me anyway. As beasty said, context.

Hapax Legomenon

Hapax Legomenon wrote: »

Yes, context matters. But in the very specific context of calling members of the Travelling community 'knackers', is it acceptable on Boards?

By the community, mostly. By the site officially, unlikely.

You have to remember that just because they're an ethnic group doesn't mean we look at them as a different race, so drop the race card stuff.


The word "knacker" refers to a backwards piece of shlt who is a criminal lowlife.. Some of these "knackers" happen to be part of the traveller community in Ireland, but the word is often used for people who have nothing to do with travellers. Usually people from rough estates who are a scourge on others.


To you, that might sound racist or whatever. I don't expect that you'll look for the nuance in my description.

Yer Da sells Avon

Omackeral wrote: »

Anyone that behaves like a knacker can be called a knacker. A knacker is a scumbag. Act like a scumbag, be prepared to be branded a knacker. Settled fella acting like a knacker? You’re a knacker. Travelling fella acting like a knacker? You’re a knacker. That’s what it is to me anyway. As beasty said, context.

I accept that. And there are others who would use that word to describe someone who has an accent that they don't like. Now, I dunno about you, but I'm not entirely convinced that the people using that word in that thread are using it in the same context that you are.

Beasty

Hapax Legomenon wrote: »

Yes, context matters. But in the very specific context of calling members of the Travelling community 'knackers', is it acceptable on Boards?

As already mentioned, if there are specific examples you have a concern over, report them and leave it to the mods to look at and deal with as they see fit. Give them some time to review anything that is reported, but if after a while you feel as if something still needs dealing with, PM one of the local mods to raise your concerns

If you are not satisfied approach a CMod and after that start a thread in Help Desk. Trying to continue discussion of such a specific issue is not appropriate in this thread

CruelCoin

Hapax Legomenon wrote: »

Maybe one of the mods might clarify whether it's ok to use racist terms like 'knacker' on Boards nowadays, and whether we're free to adopt the language of the Nazis when talking about ethnic groups that we happen to dislike.

It's interesting that you're invoking the Fascists, when it's you trying to shut down certain types of speech.

Yer Da sells Avon

CruelCoin wrote: »

It's interesting that you're invoking the Fascists, when it's you trying to shut down certain types of speech.

Tbh, I'd happily round up everyone who uses that stupid line of argument, work them to death and then toss 'em in an oven.

hatrickpatrick

Hapax Legomenon wrote: »

Tbh, I'd happily round up everyone who uses that stupid line of argument, work them to death and then toss 'em in an oven.

Ironically enough, this kind of post probably wouldn't be allowed under your preferred moderation regime

Yer Da sells Avon

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

Ironically enough, this kind of post probably wouldn't be allowed under your preferred moderation regime

Jokes are all that would be allowed under my preferred moderation regime.

James Brown

I think an environment that makes people less willing to post, is more of an issue than the rise of social media as to why traffic seems to be slowing. When you have to dissect your comments and look at them from every conceivable angle, keeping in mind how others may misconstrue them and for some reason ensuring it's not a topic you've posted on too much, or one where you may have shown to have a particular view in the past, prior to posting, why would you bother?
Then of course, there's topics you know infrequent posters will come out of the woodwork purely to derail or shut down any discussion on, which is one area where Moderation is severely lacking IMV.

James Brown

Hapax Legomenon wrote: »

Tbh, I'd happily round up everyone who uses that stupid line of argument, work them to death and then toss 'em in an oven.

How you fascists sleep at night I don't know

Odhinn

No generalised Trump thread is ridiculous tbh.

Cookie_Monster

Odhinn wrote: »

No generalised Trump thread is ridiculous tbh.

that's politics, there's two fora for that with active topics on it already...

Odhinn

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

that's politics, there's two fora for that with active topics on it already...

Cafe is a disaster, Politics is entirely serious.

Yer Da sells Avon

Odhinn wrote: »

Cafe is a disaster, Politics is entirely serious.

And AH is at its best when it's entirely unserious.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

Hapax Legomenon wrote: »

And AH is at its best when it's entirely unserious.

That's a matter of opinion. I not inclined to agree with you. There are many serious social topics that suit AH and would not have a home in any other forum.

The way I see it is After Hours evolved over time in to something like a mini boards. It's no longer made up of only funny threads and instead is a mix of those and some very serious topics. This of course will attract a different type of poster. The thing is though that I believe the serious and the frivolous can live side by side. The person who wants to debate till the cows come home can do so alongside the person who wants to blast us all with píss

The trouble occurs within the threads themselves rather than the actual forum content. Some people are really bad at relating to each other and picking up on all the shades that exist within a topic. This is very evident when a lighthearted thread becomes overrun with serious posts and confrontation. It's ok to have a different opinion. It doesn't mean anything in the grand scheme of things and certainly shouldn't in your own lives.

In my view there's too much thinking about this forum and how great it was and how not so great it is. Just let it be. Let it continue to evolve some more. Keep a bit of perspective maybe.

Esel

^ Yore ma.

Kuva

Esel wrote: »

^ Yore ma.

Hmm, reported as not sure if racist or feminist.

Hapax Legomenon

Hapax Legomenon wrote: »

And AH is at its best when it's entirely unserious.

The Trump thread in Politics isn't serious. It's hysteria and the conspiracy forum smashed together.

All they want to talk about is Stormy Daniels. There's very little about his actual presidency there.

MadDog76

Noticed that a high traffic interesting thread (the one about "junkies" in Dublin City Centre) has been deleted in it's entirety without explanation....... thought this practice was a thing of the past???

Discodog

MadDog76 wrote: »

Noticed that a high traffic interesting thread (the one about "junkies" in Dublin City Centre) has been deleted in it's entirety without explanation....... thought this was practice was a thing of the past???

It's supposed to be but two popular threads were locked in AH too with the explanation that they aren't cheerful enough.

MadDog76

Discodog wrote: »

It's supposed to be but two popular threads were locked in AH too with the explanation that they aren't cheerful enough.

Seriously?

That's just ridiculous.