Berlin "safe zone" for women on NYE

professore

Odhinn wrote: »

professore wrote: »

Over a thousand women were brutally gang raped in Cologne a few years back, including a police officer. A far cry from a slap on the arse in a nightclub. Not condoning the latter but have some perspective.

No, they weren't.

My mistake. Over 1200 were sexually assaulted and 28 raped.

professore

Chrongen wrote: »

ceadaoin. wrote: »

Are you only able to reply to posts with unrelated questions?

You may think that I'm merely playing Devil's Advocate, however it has been forwarded that 28 rapes occurred in Cologne on New Years Eve, what 3 or 4 years ago.

All I'm asking is that someone follow up with the details of these 28 rapes.

Were anybody caught, charged, tried, convicted?

Of those who were (hopefelly) brought to justice and sentenced (and hopefully incarcerated) do we have names?

And of those who have been charged, tried and convicted or acquitted do we have their names?

I wonder are you as fastidious when white western men are accused of rape? Because if you are you would be accused of victim blaming. For some reason when Muslims do it the government and media are silent or make excuses.

I am very tolerant of other cultures but Islam is a backwards religious cult similar to the Catholic church in 1950s Ireland. That's why I oppose not calling a spade a spade. Ultimately I'm a man so I can convert and have a great time lording it over women but it's my daughters I worry about.

dr.fuzzenstein

Have they? I must have missed something.

http://m.spiegel.de/panorama/gesellschaft/silvester-in-koeln-sicherheitskonzept-der-stadt-scheint-aufzugehen-a-1185745.html

https://www.morgenpost.de/berlin/polizeibericht/article212982641/Silvester-in-Berlin-Das-geschah-in-der-Nacht-zu-Neujahr.html

http://m.spiegel.de/panorama/gesellschaft/silvester-2017-in-koeln-berlin-hamburg-a-1185728.html

Been a quiet enough Silvester celebration with little trouble.
Too bad, no circle jerk for the African/Arab/Muslim hating "not" racists.

professore

I'm pretty liberal myself believe it or not - but the modern "liberals" are liberal when it suits them.

professore

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

Have they? I must have missed something.

http://m.spiegel.de/panorama/gesellschaft/silvester-in-koeln-sicherheitskonzept-der-stadt-scheint-aufzugehen-a-1185745.html

https://www.morgenpost.de/berlin/polizeibericht/article212982641/Silvester-in-Berlin-Das-geschah-in-der-Nacht-zu-Neujahr.html

http://m.spiegel.de/panorama/gesellschaft/silvester-2017-in-koeln-berlin-hamburg-a-1185728.html

Hmmm just briefly read the last one. I wonder was it the 1400 police (and you can bet plenty of hard ass undercover operatives) or the safe space was a success? Try the safe space with no cops and see how successful that is.

dr.fuzzenstein

professore wrote: »

Hmmm just briefly read the last one. I wonder was it the 1400 police (and you can bet plenty of hard ass undercover operatives) or the safe space was a success? Try the safe space with no cops and see how successful that is.

So you're saying they worked only because of cops.
Do you know that my car only works when I fill the tank? Useless machine!
Complaining that something works because all the correct ingredients were present is idiotic.
And did you know that dough without yeast doesn't rise? The outrage!

https://web.de/magazine/politik/silvester-2017-vereinzelte-sexuelle-uebergriffe-grossstaedten-32725338

Another report on New Year's, it's been very quiet all round.
A crushing disappointment for you, no doubt.

dr.fuzzenstein

Any large scale public event will have police and security. Both in uniform and undercover.
The safe spaces may be debatable and a knee jerk reaction, but the fact remains, no significant trouble happened.

dr.fuzzenstein

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

Fcuk Germany.

Let them import half the third world in to fcuck their women. Who gives a sh1t , let them go, it doesn't mean that we have to allow them to mess up the world for the third time in 100 years.

Of course this could never happen in Ireland

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/man-dies-and-nine-stabbed-at-dublin-concert-7923421.html

And copulate you too, Paddy.
Ah, post gone. But not forgotten. Guten Tag mein Herr.

Snake Plisken

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

So you're saying they worked only because of cops.
Do you know that my car only works when I fill the tank? Useless machine!
Complaining that something works because all the correct ingredients were present is idiotic.
And did you know that dough without yeast doesn't rise? The outrage!

https://web.de/magazine/politik/silvester-2017-vereinzelte-sexuelle-uebergriffe-grossstaedten-32725338

Another report on New Year's, it's been very quiet all round.
A crushing disappointment for you, no doubt.

No actually we are delighted that the authorities recognised the serious issue that the migrant rapists have carried out over the last couple of years and acted also I’m sure a lot of women decided to stay home or attend private parties rather then run the risk of getting assaulted! But hey you keep digging! I doubt it would even sink in with some of you liberals if your own mother or sister where assaulted you would probably blame them!

end of the road

professore wrote: »

For some reason when Muslims do it the government and media are silent or make excuses.

as much as i don't agree with that happening, the reason it's done is to keep the extremist bigots from running riot. in an ideal world the information would be released and the systems would simply be able to get on with the job of dealing with the criminals. in reality however, you would have a small minority who are bigoted and extremist running riot.

Irishmale0399

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

Any large scale public event will have police and security. Both in uniform and undercover.
The safe spaces may be debatable and a knee jerk reaction, but the fact remains, no significant trouble happened.

The statement is correct....however how do you justify 1400 local officers being on active duty in Köln alone (normal night would be 300ish max). That does not include the hundertschaften that were stationed in Leverkusen to react in Düsseldorf or Köln if needed and the Bundes (Federal) Police who were on/securing the rail service.

Funny thing is that no one is reporting this year about the racist policing of train/bus stations on the way into Düsseldorf or Köln where a large number of potentially problematic people were removed or sent in the other direction....how do I know.....the S6 stops accross the road from me and we were sure yesterday evening at about 8 that someone had killed themselves on the lines. Later seen/foundout that it was purely a filtering exercise. They removed a lot of young men at that one station between Essen and Düsseldorf who certainly didnt have German mammys and daddys.....

dr.fuzzenstein

By the way, I hate extremists on either side.
I despise hate preachers that tell gullible young men Westerners and their culture must be destroyed, all of it.
But I equally despise right wing assholes trying to tell me that all Muslims/Arabs/refugees/North Africans are manimals and need to be thrown out, destroyed, etc...
And of course then they say with a smug grin "Muslim is not a race". It's OK to hate and discriminate then, is it? Doesn't make you less of an asshole.
All these people to me a dangerous animals, because all they do is preach hate, ignorance and intolerance and cover it with the mantle of righteousness.
All they are is assholes with an axe to grind and looking for a justification for their primitive violent urges, secretly they get a hard on at the thought of killing or maiming another person.
Humans are like gangs of chimps, hunting down and fighting and even killing other chimps. We just put it in nice words and concern.
I regard anyone who says I should hate or kill anyone as dangerous and that this person must be stopped at all costs. Their demise can only be a positive thing.

Hate and racism these days does not come in a brown uniform with a Swastika. It comes with a suit and a smile and feigned concern and warning of the dangers of (insert group or nationality here)

mfceiling

Love the defender's line of "well there were no rapes last night so last year's sexual assaults were an overreaction"

Bit like saying "well no vehicles have mown down innocent people in Nice so what's the issue with more security there"

We have a backward thinking bunch of religious idiots coming into Europe with a medieval belief system who want the West to be brought back to the 13th century and a bunch of left leaning liberals who won't call them out on their rubbish for fear of upsetting these fools.

Odhinn

mfceiling wrote: »

L.................We have a backward thinking bunch of religious idiots coming into Europe with a medieval belief system who want the West to be brought back to the 13th century and a bunch of left leaning liberals who won't call them out on their rubbish for fear of upsetting these fools.

It wasn't "religious idiots" that were responsible.

Odhinn

Irishmale0399 wrote: »

.............. Later seen/foundout that it was purely a filtering exercise. They removed a lot of young men at that one station between Essen and Düsseldorf who certainly didnt have German mammys and daddys.....

There is something fairly sad about smug racism.

mfceiling

Odhinn wrote: »

It wasn't "religious idiots" that were responsible.

For the rapes last year? Just a huge bunch of German lads acting the bollocks was it?

Odhinn

mfceiling wrote: »

For the rapes last year? Just a huge bunch of German lads acting the bollocks was it?

Not as far as I'm aware.

mfceiling

Odhinn wrote: »

Not as far as I'm aware.

The attacks, which deeply shocked Germany, were mostly blamed on men of Arab and north African origin.

*I'm posting from the phone and can't link the story from the guardian...above is a highlighted paragraph from the report*

Odhinn

mfceiling wrote: »

The attacks, which deeply shocked Germany, were mostly blamed on men of Arab and north African origin.

Yep. Skangers from north africa, well oiled, robbing and terrorising women. They wouldn't be the type to attend the mosque save for when one of them gets clipped by some of their bretheren.

end of the road

mfceiling wrote: »

Love the defender's line of "well there were no rapes last night so last year's sexual assaults were an overreaction"

Bit like saying "well no vehicles have mown down innocent people in Nice so what's the issue with more security there"

no such thing was ever said, so your rant is meaningless.

mfceiling wrote: »

We have a backward thinking bunch of religious idiots coming into Europe with a medieval belief system who want the West to be brought back to the 13th century

funnily enough, we have some of our own who would like the same. they are usually very very much against muslims, arabs, and africans, and some even dislike eastern europeans.

mfceiling wrote: »

and a bunch of left leaning liberals who won't call them out on their rubbish for fear of upsetting these fools.

a small bunch of people won't call out another small bunch of people on their actions, agreed. has always happened unfortunately and always will most probably. however, some of those who wish to call out those who don't call out the extreme muslims are not exactly concerned about extreme islamists being called out for their actions, but are concerned with pushing their anti-muslim agenda.

Irishmale0399

Odhinn wrote: »

There is something fairly sad about smug racism.

I will willingly allow you call me a smug racist if it means women are safe and dont have to go through any type of abuse be it sexual or not at the hands of these young men.

Just as a matter of interest....have you ever had contact to these people or lived close to them??? Have you any first hand experience of dealing with their way of life??? Ever met a 12 year old girl who didnt want to go home because she was to be married against her will and that to a man in his early/mid 20s????

Odhinn

Irishmale0399 wrote: »

I will willingly allow you call me a smug racist if it means women are safe and dont have to go through any type of abuse be it sexual or not at the hands of these young men.

Just as a matter of interest....have you ever had contact to these people or lived close to them??? Have you any first hand experience of dealing with their way of life??? Ever met a 12 year old girl who didnt want to go home because she was to be married against her will and that to a man in his early/mid 20s????

I submit (6) anecdotes to match and (raise) you.

gw80

end of the road wrote: »

as much as i don't agree with that happening, the reason it's done is to keep the extremist bigots from running riot. in an ideal world the information would be released and the systems would simply be able to get on with the job of dealing with the criminals. in reality however, you would have a small minority who are bigoted and extremist running riot.

Yes, because the far right are always running riot across Europe, almost every day when i turn on the news or pick up a news paper its wall to wall far right extremists running riot,
No wait, thats not right, oh yea, its the islam extremists I'm thinking of.

No dought there are extremist far right out there,
But there not running riot on the streets,but there is a lot of concerned people out there who are worried about there safety and preserving of their ( our) way of life, and when these ordinary people gather you and your ilk choose to label them racists,

Irishmale0399

Odhinn wrote: »

Yep. Skangers from north africa, well oiled, robbing and terrorising women. They wouldn't be the type to attend the mosque save for when one of them gets clipped by some of their bretheren.

Can you prove that statement??? From the 22 charged in Köln for the New Years Eve attacks all entered character references from mosque members/friends to certify that they were willing to intergrate into Germany society.

How do I know that??? I work with a group of Lebanese kids in an intergration project which has an active Imam who is disgusted at the behaviour and he himself refused to write character references and indeed banned certain youths from his mosque for extreme beliefs. They then got their references Salafist following muslim groups and Imams.

Odhinn

Irishmale0399 wrote: »

Can you prove that statement??? From the 22 charged in Köln for the New Years Eve attacks all entered character references from mosque members/friends to certify that they were willing to intergrate into Germany society.

Whats any of that to do with them being skangers? We have TDs writing references for criminals here.

Irishmale0399 wrote: »

How do I know that??? I work with a group of Lebanese kids in an intergration project which has an active Imam who is disgusted at the behaviour and he himself refused to write character references and indeed banned certain youths from his mosque for extreme beliefs. They then got their references Salafist following muslim groups and Imams.

You've proof of all that of course.

end of the road

gw80 wrote: »

Yes, because the far right are always running riot across Europe, almost every day when i turn on the news or pick up a news paper its wall to wall far right extremists running riot,
No wait, thats not right, oh yea, its the islam extremists I'm thinking of.

No dought there are extremist far right out there,
But there not running riot on the streets,but there is a lot of concerned people out there who are worried about there safety and preserving of their ( our) way of life, and when these ordinary people gather you and your ilk choose to label them racists,

some of the far right have changed tac, in an aim to play the victim. however they are just as extremist and dangerous as before. yeah it just so happens that some of the people who "gather" are extremist bigots looking for trouble. britain first, EDL and other similar trash.
i'm just as concerned about islamic extremism as the next person who is genuinely concerned, however i also know that there are a number pretending to be concerned to push agendas.

Irishmale0399

If thats how he gets his kicks in 2018 well be it. I just hope he doesnt have a girlfriend, wife or daughter at home...

Irishmale0399

Welcome to Merkels softy softy approach to ignoring a problem. If we dont speak about it, read about it or accept that it is there them it doesnt really exist.

gw80

end of the road wrote: »

some of the far right have changed tac, in an aim to play the victim. however they are just as extremist and dangerous as before. yeah it just so happens that some of the people who "gather" are extremist bigots looking for trouble. britain first, EDL and other similar trash.
i'm just as concerned about islamic extremism as the next person who is genuinely concerned, however i also know that there are a number pretending to be concerned to push agendas.

Yes, they walk amongst us, dont be fooled if they look and act like normal folk, don't be decived
For they are a crafty breed,, they could be under your bed, look out for shifty eyes,

Ulysses Gaze

Odhinn wrote: »

Whats any of that to do with them being skangers? We have TDs writing references for criminals here.


You've proof of all that of course.

Where's your proof that

They wouldn't be the type to attend the mosque save for when one of them gets clipped by some of their bretheren.

SnakePlissken

Odhinn wrote: »

You've proof of all that of course.

Your modus operandi is to ask for proof, citation, or links, then to disappear when same is provided, only to reappear a number of hours later in the vain hope your duplicity has been forgotten.

Why would anyone provide you with any proof when to all on here it's obvious it will go ignored if it contradicts your agenda?

qm1bv4p8i92aoj

SnakePlissken wrote: »

Your modus operandi is to ask for proof, citation, or links, then to disappear when same is provided, only to reappear a number of hours later in the vain hope your duplicity has been forgotten.

Why would anyone provide you with any proof when to all on here it's obvious it will go ignored if it contradicts your agenda?

Well done Plissken on calling him on it.

Himself eotr and Grayson are nothing more than sexual assault apologists.

Ye should be ashamed of yourselves.

end of the road

Jeremy Enough Insect wrote: »

Well done Plissken on calling him on it.

Himself eotr and Grayson are nothing more than sexual assault apologists.

Ye should be ashamed of yourselves.

nope. we have nothing to be ashamed of as we are not "sexual assault apologists"

look, i know those who hate muslims can't stand people not conforming to their ill-informed viewpoint, so i understand why they make up nonsense. but thankfully the majority of people can condemn sexual asalt while not hating muslims but just the perpetrators of the asalt. so you will have to try again with your drivel

qm1bv4p8i92aoj

end of the road wrote: »

nope. we have nothing to be ashamed of as we are not "sexual assault apologists"

look, i know those who hate muslims can't stand people not conforming to their ill-informed viewpoint, so i understand why they make up nonsense. but thankfully the majority of people can condemn sexual asalt while not hating muslims but just the perpetrators of the asalt. so you will have to try again with your drivel

We have had on this thread some ridiculous claims.
Oh they were actually only trying to rob the women but got carried away and sexually assaulted them to oh it was because they are not use to drinking that made them sexually assault them.

Disgusting drivel.

Like I said sexual assault apologists.

end of the road

Jeremy Enough Insect wrote: »

We have had on this thread some ridiculous claims.
Oh they were actually only trying to rob the women but got carried away and sexually assaulted them to oh it was because they are not use to drinking that made them sexually assault them.

Disgusting drivel.

Like I said sexual assault apologists.

who made the claim that they were trying to rob the women and got caried away.
i do know it was neither of the 3 of us who you originally claimed to be "sexual assault apologists"

Odhinn

Ulysses Gaze wrote: »

Where's your proof that

Drinking, sexual assault and thievery is not the behaviour of the religious.

Shenshen

gw80 wrote: »

Yes, because the far right are always running riot across Europe, almost every day when i turn on the news or pick up a news paper its wall to wall far right extremists running riot,
No wait, thats not right, oh yea, its the islam extremists I'm thinking of.

No dought there are extremist far right out there,
But there not running riot on the streets,but there is a lot of concerned people out there who are worried about there safety and preserving of their ( our) way of life, and when these ordinary people gather you and your ilk choose to label them racists,

You may want to look at what newspapers you're reading :

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-39096833
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/06/19/far-right-rise-warns-security-minister/
http://www.dw.com/en/poland-racism-on-the-rise/a-36812032

Suffice to say, I'm glad I was lucky enough to have been born with the right skin colour, otherwise I would imagine living here would be very unnerving indeed.

qm1bv4p8i92aoj

end of the road wrote: »

who made the claim that they were trying to rob the women and got caried away.
i do know it was neither of the 3 of us who you originally claimed to be "sexual assault apologists"

Odhinn yesterday time 17:19.

Odhinn

Jeremy Enough Insect wrote: »

Odhinn yesterday time 17:19.

Not what I said.

Irishmale0399

end of the road wrote: »

nope. we have nothing to be ashamed of as we are not "sexual assault apologists"

look, i know those who hate muslims can't stand people not conforming to their ill-informed viewpoint, so i understand why they make up nonsense. but thankfully the majority of people can condemn sexual asalt while not hating muslims but just the perpetrators of the asalt. so you will have to try again with your drivel

I have a lot of friends who are muslim and they are also disgusted by the behaviour of the minority.

However they also tell me that the Koran teaches that woman should be treated as ones mother would be. As a result a woman should get more respect than a man because without woman they would not be on earth.

So to your statement....ill-informed viewpoint???

Out of the 22 charged youths/adults in Köln after the sex attacks how many were not Muslim???

Did or didnt a high ranking Egyptian politician in the last few months say that women in skirts or low cut tops are responsible if men rape them???

Did or didnt the number of sexual attacks rise in numerous EU cities/countries with the influx of so called refugees???

Is it OK in your world for young girls to be forced to marry, mostly to considerably older men, once they have had their first period and are classified as women???

Do you have daughters?? Would you be willing/feel comfortable to allow them go out yesterday evening in Köln or Berlin??

What is the problem with people expecting these refugees to accept local traditions, respect local religion and cultures when they are seeking refuge in their country and indeed in most cases living off the system these people are finacing with there taxes???

Would you sexually assault a lady in Cairo, Dubai or any other islamic land justifying it with the fact that a Burka turns you on and insist then publicly for the ladies to wear less???

qm1bv4p8i92aoj

Odhinn wrote: »

Not what I said.

That's what you implied.

Shenshen

Jeremy Enough Insect wrote: »

We have had on this thread some ridiculous claims.
Oh they were actually only trying to rob the women but got carried away and sexually assaulted them to oh it was because they are not use to drinking that made them sexually assault them.

Disgusting drivel.

Like I said sexual assault apologists.

In a very sad, weird and twisted way, German women actually have a lot to be thankful to those guys for.

See, what these men were doing was at that time not actually even illegal in Germany. In order for such attacks to have been classed as sexual assault, the women would have had to have been either held in place by physical force, or by the threat of life-threatening violence. At gun- or knifepoint, for example.
In any other kind of situation, the law assumed that it was possible for the women to walk away from their attackers, and since they obviously chose not to do so, they were in fact consenting.

Now, feminist groups have been fighting this law in Germany for as long as I can remember, with particular focus on large gatherings, where a woman being groped cannot walk away as easily as the law was imagining. Groping in crowds such as at concerts, big events such as the Octoberfest or christmas markets was a pretty common occurrence. Personally, I couldn't even count how many times it had happened to me, and I can assure you I'm not even a particularly attractive female.

So, after decades of demonstrating and campaigning by women to get this law changed, all it took was the events on New Years Eve in Cologne, and not even 6 months later there was new legislation. Now the law actually calls what happened that night sexual assault.
Makes me think we should have been cleverer all along. Instead of claiming that we didn't care for unwanted physical attention from men, we should have made it clear that, really, we only mind if they're Muslims. Maybe that way we could have got through quicker.

Odhinn

Jeremy Enough Insect wrote: »

That's what you implied.

...no, not in the slightest.

qm1bv4p8i92aoj

Odhinn wrote: »

...no, not in the slightest.

Yup it was and you know it.

Sexual assault apologists.

gw80

Shenshen wrote: »

You may want to look at what newspapers you're reading :

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-39096833
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/06/19/far-right-rise-warns-security-minister/
http://www.dw.com/en/poland-racism-on-the-rise/a-36812032

Suffice to say, I'm glad I was lucky enough to have been born with the right skin colour, otherwise I would imagine living here would be very unnerving indeed.

Why are they on the rise?

end of the road

Irishmale0399 wrote: »

I have a lot of friends who are muslim and they are also disgusted by the behaviour of the minority.

However they also tell me that the Koran teaches that woman should be treated as ones mother would be. As a result a woman should get more respect than a man because without woman they would not be on earth.

good. they are absolutely correct. extremism and sex crimes have no place in any society.

Irishmale0399 wrote: »

Did or didnt a high ranking Egyptian politician in the last few months say that women in skirts or low cut tops are responsible if men rape them???

i didn't hear about that. however whoever this politician is, his view is wrong.

Irishmale0399 wrote: »

Is it OK in your world for young girls to be forced to marry, mostly to considerably older men, once they have had their first period and are classified as women???

of course it isn't.

Irishmale0399 wrote: »

What is the problem with people expecting these refugees to accept local traditions, respect local religion and cultures when they are seeking refuge in their country and indeed in most cases living off the system these people are finacing with there taxes???

the problem is that you don't get to expect people to accept or respect traditions culture or religion, just one's right to take part in them, and respect the law of the land.

Irishmale0399 wrote: »

Would you sexually assault a lady in Cairo, Dubai or any other islamic land justifying it with the fact that a Burka turns you on and insist then publicly for the ladies to wear less???

what sort of a ridiculous question is that. i wouldn't sexually asalt anyone, under any circumstances or for any reason. jesus christ, seriously.

meeeeh

Irishmale0399 wrote: »

Do you have daughters?? Would you be willing/feel comfortable to allow them go out yesterday evening in Köln or Berlin??

Yes I would. There is no reason for hysteria and locking girls in. I would also expect police to do their job.

The attitude of some people here about protecting 'our women' like they are some witless idiots is ridiculous and 50 years out of date. There are a lot of Muslim practices I despise and certainly don't want to see in Europe but it is blown out of proportion, exaggerated and simplified. I would certainly feel safer for my daughter to visit Germany than UK.

end of the road

gw80 wrote: »

Why are they on the rise?

because brown people. the far right don't like anyone that isn't the same as them.

Tipperary animal lover

Lads once again the usual suspects are trying to wrap this thread up, you won't have a proper debate as it'll go around in circles and mods will come on and shut it down, it's been happening for awhile now on other threads, just leave them off with their views(as their entitled to them). Happy new year lads.

Will I Am Not

The drink excuse was the best one. It’s a good job us Westerners were born with a tolerance for alcohol. Sure we would have all been going around sexually assaulting women for the first year or so when we started drinking.