USB Socket in Bathroom - regs?

01-01-2018 8:28pm

TheChizler wrote: »

They do if the wall plug malfunctions and allows 230 V down.

Then it would be 5V anymore.

01-01-2018 8:33pm

Theoretically just about any electrical device can malfunction and result in electrocution. The way this risk is mitagated is with proper risk assessments which in turn drive regulations one of which is that we use CE certified electrical appliances. A phone charger that is not CE marked is far more likely to suffer a catastrophic failure resulting in a fire, injury or fatality. Let’s not forget plenty of electrical devices are installed in a bathroom in a safe and compliant manner so a USB socket should not be too difficult.

TheChizler · 01-01-2018 8:35pm

2011 wrote: »

Then it would be 5V anymore.

Well of course not. My point is if someone thinks 5 V USB is totally safe it's not necessarily when there's a mains source.

01-01-2018 8:40pm

TheChizler wrote: »

Well of course not. My point is if someone thinks 5 V USB is totally safe it's not necessarily when there's a mains source.

Couldn’t you say the same about any ELV device, shaver socket, 12V fan, 12V downlighter?

durtybit · 01-01-2018 8:45pm

Wearb wrote: »

OP "I want to install a USB charging point in the bathroom for Echo, Google Home or similar device.

I have an unused box that was meant for a towel rail, so easy enough to install. Would obviously be safest to get a dedicated USB only faceplate, but those are hard to come by. My intention is to put in a 3 pin with USB combo plate and blank off the mains part with one of those child safety blanks.

Just wonder what the regs say about 5v USB installation in wet areas?"

Don't know if you noticed the bold part, or even if it makes a difference.

Echo works on 9v

Dardania · 01-01-2018 8:50pm

Don't those USB sockets effectively contain an isolating transformer? So the fault current at 5V should be shag all

Del2005 · 01-01-2018 9:44pm

2011 wrote: »

Nobody gets electrocuted from 5V

My phone has a 3Amp charger would that not be dangerous even at 5V?

durtybit · 01-01-2018 9:46pm

2011 wrote: »

Nobody gets electrocuted from 5V

What about 5v at 200 amps?

Lucifer · 01-01-2018 9:50pm

durtybit wrote: »

What about 5v at 200 amps?

Won't be able to travel through your body.

Think of a car battery. 12v capable of putting out a few hundred amps. You can touch both poles of the battery with your bare hands.

Sleeper12 · 01-01-2018 10:00pm

Lucifer wrote:

Think of a car battery. 12v capable of putting out a few hundred amps. You can touch both poles of the battery with your bare hands.

The regs treat a 12 volt power shower the same as a 9kw electric shower though. Both fall under electricial installation. It all comes down to how close you are going to get to water

01-01-2018 10:08pm

Del2005 wrote: »

My phone has a 3Amp charger would that not be dangerous even at 5V?

5V will not electrocute you. 3 amps will only flow from a 5VDC supply if the resistance is sufficiently low, see Ohm's law.

R = V/I = 5/3 = 1.67 Ohms

This means that for 3 amps to flow from a 5VDC supply the resistance must be 1.67 Ohms.

The human body can have a resistance of up to 100,000 Ohms so a human can not get a electrocuted from a 5VDC supply.

durtybit wrote: »

What about 5v at 200 amps?

200 amps will only flow from a 5VDC supply if the resistance is sufficiently low.

R = 5/200 = 0.025 Ohms

01-01-2018 10:09pm

Sleeper12 wrote: »

The regs treat a 12 volt power shower the same as a 9kw electric shower though. Both fall under electricial installation. It all comes down to how close you are going to get to water

Incorrect.

Sleeper12 · 01-01-2018 10:18pm

2011 wrote:

Incorrect.

You know more than I do about the regs. CER have told me that they treat low voltage shower the same as electric shower. Only REC can install a low voltage shower according to them. I've never understood this because I wouldn't even bother turning off the power if it wasn't handy as I work on a low voltage shower. They say it's an electrical installation under the law.

I will say that CER & RECI have given out totally incorrect information to me and others before. For four years CER had been telling me that changing electric shower like for like was OK. I now know this isn't true.

Lucifer · 01-01-2018 10:42pm

My point is nothing to do with regulations. The poster before asked what about 5v at 200 amps and I was pointing out that the current is not relevant at 5v for electrocution. 1 amp or 200 amps, neither will be able to flow through the human body. I referenced a CAR battery being higher voltage and current and still safe to touch.

TheChizler · 01-01-2018 10:59pm

2011 wrote: »

Couldn’t you say the same about any ELV device, shaver socket, 12V fan, 12V downlighter?

Yes, but any of these things aren't as tempting to bring as close as possible to you in the bath/shower as a music player. They'll also more likely be bought in Ireland and be electrically compliant. A USB adapter could easily be bought off a dodgy Chinese site. So I'm saying put a dedicated spot for it away from the water source to lessen the risk.

01-01-2018 11:20pm

TheChizler wrote: »

A USB adapter could easily be bought off a dodgy Chinese site.

....as can just about any electrical device.

Yes, but any of these things aren't as tempting to bring as close as possible to you in the bath/shower as a music player.

12V fans are permitted in the shower cubicle.

So I'm saying put a dedicated spot for it away from the water source to lessen the risk.

With all electrical devices in a bathroom:
It would be safer to install ensure that they are CE certified and installed in a manner that is compliant with the regulations than to install a device that you feel may not be compliant in a location "away from the water source".

TheChizler · 01-01-2018 11:24pm

I'm just saying if you go the plugging a USB charger into a shaver socket, be sensible. Nothing more.

01-01-2018 11:30pm

TheChizler wrote: »

I'm just saying if you go the plugging a USB charger into a shaver socket, be sensible. Nothing more.

Fair enough, but I wouldn't go plugging a USB charger into a shaver socket in the first place.
Shaver sockets are for shavers

Jakey Rolling · 02-01-2018 1:12am

durtybit wrote: »

Wearb wrote: »

OP "I want to install a USB charging point in the bathroom for Echo, Google Home or similar device.

I have an unused box that was meant for a towel rail, so easy enough to install. Would obviously be safest to get a dedicated USB only faceplate, but those are hard to come by. My intention is to put in a 3 pin with USB combo plate and blank off the mains part with one of those child safety blanks.

Just wonder what the regs say about 5v USB installation in wet areas?"

Don't know if you noticed the bold part, or even if it makes a difference.

Echo works on 9v

And the Echo Dot works from a 5.2v 1.8 A supply

Bruthal · 02-01-2018 5:09pm

Sleeper12 wrote: »

The regs treat a 12 volt power shower the same as a 9kw electric shower though. Both fall under electricial installation. It all comes down to how close you are going to get to water

It wouldnt matter if you were after getting out of the sea, 12v is too low to be of shock risk in terms of current through the body. Short circuiting a car battery etc with a spanner can be dangerous though, but not in electric shock terms.

Sleeper12 · 02-01-2018 5:14pm

Bruthal wrote:

It wouldnt matter if you were after getting out of the sea, 12v is too low to be of shock risk in terms of current through the body. Short circuiting a car battery etc with a spanner can be dangerous though, but not in electric shock terms.

I totally get that and agree. I'm just saying that they seem to consider a low voltage shower as an "electrical installation" in terms of the regs. They have a one shoe fits all approach to anything electrical inside the shower cubicle area.

USB Socket in Bathroom - regs?

Comments