Property Market 2018

Bob24

donkeyoaty0099 wrote: »

Think a lot depends on your sector. Parma, It etc your pretty sorted. Shop manager, self employed, farming etc maybe not so good.

True, and I would add to this that the list of who’s “sorted” is not set it stone. For exemple there are many decently to well paid accounting jobs at the moment so someone in that field is all good today. But 10-15 years down the line when AI and automatisation are destroying many of these jobs? (not all the jobs of course but if half become jobless it will also impact the salary of the other half).
Slightly off-topic but not completely as people might commit to very long term mortgages assuming their field will always offer them similar opportunities to what it does today.

Cyrus

Flying Fox wrote: »

I have a degree, a masters and over 10 years experience and I haven't made it near to 50k. Partner is the same. It's not easy for everyone to get to that salary.

you mind me asking what industry?

Ohmeha

M.Cribben wrote: »

I don't think a €100k combined income for a married couple is that unusual these days. It's very achieveable with any career, possibly a degree and 5 years experience.

The average industrial wage according to CSO was €45,611 in 2016 and probably higher now as the economy continues to recover.
https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/this-is-the-average-full-time-wage-in-ireland-795670.html

The average public sector salary is €47,400 according to this. https://www.businessworld.ie/financial-news/Average-public-sector-wages-are-47-400-in-Ireland--567926.html

Need to be talking about median salaries and not average salaries

Very little data published on median salaries in Ireland but I recall a few years back median salary in Ireland was approx 32k

Cyrus

Cyrus wrote: »

you mind me asking what industry?

I'm a business analyst, currently in a semi-state organisation.

Bob24

Flying Fox wrote: »

I'm a business analyst, currently in a semi-state organisation.

In my experience semi states don’t pay well when you are your best years (old enough to have good experience but young enough to still be seen by employeers as energetic and fully up to date with your field). They probably treat people better when they get older though.

M.Cribben

zom wrote: »

Join FG (or their mates from FF / Labor) would be my advise...



Experienced people in engineering are offered 25k in Dublin: https://ie.indeed.com/cmp/BP-Multipage/jobs/Electronic-Technician-2c1a8472d76f2d4c?q=Electronics+Engineer&vjs=3

That's a Technician job requiring 1 years experience. I wouldn't count 1 year as "experienced people in engineering". Also it's a Technican job, not an Engineer.

Provide technical support to customers (technical and non-technical), field service engineers, clinical support and our sales team.
Stock management and administrative tasks.

25-27k actually seems high for that role.

What are electrical engineers with 3rd level qualifications and 5 years experience earning? From having 3 generations of family working in ESB, I can tell you it's not 27k.

M.Cribben

M.Cribben wrote: »

..........

What are electrical engineers with 3rd level qualifications and 5 years experience earning? From having 3 generations of family working in ESB, I can tell you it's not 27k.

ESB ...Graduate engineers start on €40k+ and engineers can progress to specialist level where a base salary close to €100k for senior specialists isn't uncommon.

The ESB essentially pay not far off contract rates to permanent staff.

eeguy

Augeo wrote: »

Graduate engineers start on €40k+ and engineers can progress to specialist level where a base salary close to €100k for senior specialists isn't uncommon.

The ESB essentially pay not far off contract rates to permanent staff.

One guy in my class got 35k starting. The rest were between 25-30k.
In fairness after a few years most are on the 50+k.

I wouldn't say it's overly common for places to pay 100+k a year. Maybe medical and pharma.

eeguy

eeguy wrote: »

One guy in my class got 35k starting. The rest were between 25-30k.
In fairness after a few years most are on the 50+k.

I wouldn't say it's overly common for places to pay 100+k a year. Maybe medical and pharma.

I was just on about the ESB specifically.
Not at all representative of the market in general
As I said, not far off contract rates for the perm ESB folk.

Sleepy

The ESB are a pretty poor example as they rather famously over-pay their staff. A union that can cause national blackouts is always going to be in a strong position (arguably too strong and a position they shouldn't be allowed to hold).

Sleepy

Sleepy wrote: »

The ESB are a pretty poor example as they rather famously over-pay their staff. A union that can cause national blackouts is always going to be in a strong position (arguably too strong and a position they shouldn't be allowed to hold).

Indeed.

I was just shedding some light on the numbers as someone mentioned elec eng wages based on his family being employed there over generations.

I'll say it a 3rd time, nearly contract rates for perm staff.

manniot2

I seem to have started a conversation about salaries that was unintended. The basic point I was trying to make was that I think there is still some affordability around despite what the media would lead you to believe. I probably picked a bad example in Castleknock/Carpenterstown, but there are houses in many other areas that are a lot cheaper (Eg Baldoyle/Beaumont/Santry and further out in Swords/Donabate etc). The media's constant talk of a crises is creating a hype that is fuelling the fire!

LirW

I think what you're not taking into consideration is the fact that in the lower price segments half-decent property can easily make 20% over the asking price unless there's something really wrong with it (very bad area with lots of crime and anti-social behaviour or it's not mortgage-able). So if a couple can afford the 300k bracket they have to look within the 220-240 segment to have chances to actually secure a house. I know a girl that bought a few months ago in Inchicore, a small enough house and they paid 70k over the asking price.
Another guy I know bought in Castleknock last year and his house would be in the 400-500 bracket and he also still paid around 10% over the asking.

M.Cribben

manniot2 wrote: »

I seem to have started a conversation about salaries that was unintended.

It's all relevant though. Property prices generally rise with salaries and fall with unemployment.
What started this was a poster demonstrating that a couple on a joint income of ~100k can afford a 4-bed semi-detached house in a nice part of Dublin with good amenities and transport links.
This goes against the consensus in media that nobody can afford to buy in Dublin any more.

OwlsZat

M.Cribben wrote: »

It's all relevant though. Property prices generally rise with salaries and fall with unemployment.
What started this was a poster demonstrating that a couple on a joint income of ~100k can afford a 4-bed semi-detached house in a nice part of Dublin with good amenities and transport links.
This goes against the consensus in media that nobody can afford to buy in Dublin any more.

Just because you can technically afford the repayments doesn't make it sensible. The example given screams of overreaching. So many situations where that couple could come under financial pressure. Kids, interest rates, job loss, recession...

Samuel T. Cogley

I'd say couples with no kids on 100K combined would struggle these days. A 3 bed terrace in Kilbarrack will now set you back 325K.

Cyrus

OwlsZat wrote: »

So many situations where that couple could come under financial pressure. Kids, interest rates, job loss, recession...

Those factors will come into play no matter the size of the mortgage to be fair they just be exacerbated by the size of it

1k is a lot of money to owe if you have no way to pay it

Carlos Orange

M.Cribben wrote: »

This goes against the consensus in media that nobody can afford to buy in Dublin any more.

Where can I find that consensus?

Samuel T. Cogley

psinno wrote: »

Where can I find that consensus?

Boards.ie

psinno

psinno wrote: »

Where can I find that consensus?

Your local SF councillor

manniot2

psinno wrote: »

Where can I find that consensus?

Every second news bulletin.

Carlos Orange

manniot2 wrote: »

Every second news bulletin.

Never watch the news but since this one is actually media related you can link to something saying nobody can afford to buy houses in Dublin.

Bluefoam

Someone can afford the houses... Otherwise they wouldn't sell. The main problem seems to be that a large portion of the population feel excluded from the property market, or cannot produce the funds to buy...

There also seems to be a change in the market where large scale funds/landlords are buying up big developments and are renting them on, thus effecting prices and availability.

Experience_day

Flying Fox wrote: »

I'm a business analyst, currently in a semi-state organisation.

How are you a BA making nowhere near 50k? Salaries are usually pretty hefty there. Especially with 10 years experience!

Bob24

Experience_day wrote: »

How are you a BA making nowhere near 50k? Salaries are usually pretty hefty there. Especially with 10 years experience!

Some semi state companies would have limited options for promotions if you don't go to management roles and have had pay freezes for several of the past 10 years. So if someone joined just around the crash (presumably on a limited entry level salary) and stayed with the company for the past 10 years I can definitely see it happening.

Catmologen

Experience_day wrote: »

Flying Fox wrote: »

I'm a business analyst, currently in a semi-state organisation.

How are you a BA making nowhere near 50k? Salaries are usually pretty hefty there. Especially with 10 years experience!

The pension probably makes up for it.

The_Conductor

Catmologen wrote: »

The pension probably makes up for it.

Not anymore it doesn't- I'm not sure if you've followed the evolving story of pensions- but, with exceptions, they are not the crock of gold at the end of the rainbow that the media like to portray them as.........

Catmologen

The_Conductor wrote: »

Catmologen wrote: »

The pension probably makes up for it.

Not anymore it doesn't- I'm not sure if you've followed the evolving story of pensions- but, with exceptions, they are not the crock of gold at the end of the rainbow that the media like to portray them as.........

It might be time for a move to the private sector then. With 10 years experience, a BA should make at least 70k.

Cyrus

Bob24 wrote: »

Some semi state companies would have limited options for promotions if you don't go to management roles and have had pay freezes for several of the past 10 years. So if someone joined just around the crash (presumably on a limited entry level salary) and stayed with the company for the past 10 years I can definitely see it happening.

That sounds about right but why anyone would hang around in that kind of environment for 10 years is beyond me

Bob24

Cyrus wrote: »

That sounds about right but why anyone would hang around in that kind of environment for 10 years is beyond me

From what I have seen working in both types of environments, many graduates / young people who join semi-state companies don’t stick around very long due to that salary gap, but some do and I guess it’s a matter of personal preference: the other side of the coin is that on average a job in a semi-state organisation is probably a bit less stressful and doesn’t require as much unpaid overtime compared to a fully private job.