Property Market 2018

Carlos Orange

Mickiemcfist wrote: »

I'm of the opinion that if we had a market that functioned steadily, a ladder should be the exact way we should be looking at buying houses. I've friends (a 28 year old couple) who've just bought a 5 bed in Rathfarnham as they want children in the medium term. ............
It's very inefficient.

I imagine a 5 bed in Rathfarnham is typically going to be massively underutilised irrespective of the market.

engiweirdo

Dublin prices are absolutely insane at the minute. It's not New York ffs. Have had to turn away a ton of interview offers/ approaches by Dublun/Cork companies as just could not justify moving there. Would be a beans on toast existence (sharing not an option with a family). I have yet to see any realistic solutions offered by this government to fix this.

As I see it you either have to:

a) Build lots, build up as high as possible, flood the market with affordable and social housing, removing or greatly increasing income caps for both.

b) Drastically diversify the economy. Far too much is concentrated in and around Dublin and both Dublin and regional Ireland are suffering albeit in very different ways because of this.

Brussels Sprout

psinno wrote: »

Are exemptions not part of the central bank rules? Don't see how they can be a contravention of something they are part of.

Not sure how they work in practice but it seems like a good idea to give banks scope to reflect on the financial behaviour of the person looking for the loan. I was able to get one but didn't take it up in the end. I had 3X my income in savings so I'm probably a slightly more financially prudent person and better able to cope with a higher mortgage than someone who only had the bare minimum deposit.

I actually don't know. If they are then I hope it is a transparent process otherwise I can see it being used as a way for bank managers to sort out their friends.

Samuel T. Cogley

engiweirdo wrote: »

Dublin prices are absolutely insane at the minute. It's not New York ffs. Have had to turn away a ton of interview offers/ approaches by Dublun/Cork companies as just could not justify moving there. Would be a beans on toast existence (sharing not an option with a family). I have yet to see any realistic solutions offered by this government to fix this.

As I see it you either have to:

a) Build lots, build up as high as possible, flood the market with affordable and social housing, removing or greatly increasing income caps for both.

b) Drastically diversify the economy. Far too much is concentrated in and around Dublin and both Dublin and regional Ireland are suffering albeit in very different ways because of this.

c) Employ single people.

I think we're seeing much more of c) than anything else.

Bob24

Dublin average rent increased by €130 (circa 8%) in the past 12 months: https://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/sharp-spike-in-rent-as-dublin-average-nears-1600-report-shows-1.3643327

I personally think there is a big risk in buying an investment property today and wouldn’t do it, but this type of constant and sharp rent increases year after year should apply upwards pressure to property prices in areas where keen investors see good rental opportunities as it is increasing rental yields.

And as a side note, would anyone still dare saying that the RPZ policy is working? :-s

raze_them_all_

Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »

c) Employ single people.

I think we're seeing much more of c) than anything else.

An single currently sharing an apartment. My half is 950 a month without bills. ****ing crazy money

cruizer101

Brussels Sprout wrote: »

I actually don't know. If they are then I hope it is a transparent process otherwise I can see it being used as a way for bank managers to sort out their friends.

The central bank put limitations of the quantity of exemptions but not on how the bank decides who to give them too.
I can't really see what you are talking about happening mind.

keane2097

I see the 'we've learned nothing, we're at it again' crowd are out wagging their fingers at themselves again.

Seems a suitable time for a repost

keane2097 wrote: »

I find the growing narrative of 'we're all at it again' totally baffling tbh.

I can't see what ordinary people are doing that's out of line at the moment. Nobody is buying investment property in Bulgaria, no 110% mortgages - there's no mania. All that's happening here is people who need a place to live are having to pay a lot for housing because rents and property prices are very high.

The 'we've learned nothing' self-flagellation doesn't seem to reflect reality and is tiresome.

seamus

Mickiemcfist wrote: »

I'm of the opinion that if we had a market that functioned steadily, a ladder should be the exact way we should be looking at buying houses. I've friends (a 28 year old couple) who've just bought a 5 bed in Rathfarnham as they want children in the medium term. Realistically their needs would be met by an apartment until they are planning kids & need the 5 bed, so there's 4 bedrooms in Dublin not utilised as they're afraid they won't be able to afford it if they were to hold off until they need it. They're also paying compound interest on the 4 beds they're not using, where they could be saving/investing it for the next 5-10 years while they don't need it. It's very inefficient.

Inefficient perhaps, but that's because of the practicalities of property transfer.

From the time you start looking at properties and applying for mortgages, to being settled in your new home, you're looking at 6-9 months, for the most part.
That's a process which should be concluded ideally before you become pregnant.

So if your plan is to have children in five years time, then you need to work backwards. 10 months for pregnancy. 6-12 months to get pregnant in the first place. 6-9 months to find and buy your suitable house. That's 2.5 years (31 months)

So if you buy an apartment today with a view to having kids in five years time and being in a more suitable property at that time, then you'd need to start looking for a new property in 2.5 years time.

Now factor in the hassle and stress and incidental costs of moving house, and are you really better off investing your money for a couple of years? Or are you better off buying the five-bed upfront and leaving rooms vacant for four years?

Shedite27

Mickiemcfist wrote: »

I'm of the opinion that if we had a market that functioned steadily, a ladder should be the exact way we should be looking at buying houses. I've friends (a 28 year old couple) who've just bought a 5 bed in Rathfarnham as they want children in the medium term. Realistically their needs would be met by an apartment until they are planning kids & need the 5 bed, so there's 4 bedrooms in Dublin not utilised as they're afraid they won't be able to afford it if they were to hold off until they need it. They're also paying compound interest on the 4 beds they're not using, where they could be saving/investing it for the next 5-10 years while they don't need it. It's very inefficient.

28 year old couple buying a 5 bed house is an exception.

My point was that most of my friends (mid-30's) are getting married and buying a house that "worst case scenario", they could live in for life (ie 3 bed). There's no interest in a ladder as the original poster mentioned as we're all concerned about getting stuck in a 2 bed apartment with 2 small kids in 6 years time, should the crash comes.

IMO the desired progression/ladder for most young people nowadays seems to be:
1. Live with parents/friends in the 20's
2. Once significant other on the scene -> Move in with significant other in rented apartment
3. Once married and/or kids in the picture -> buy a 3 bed house if they can, or rent 3 bed house

Zulu

Shedite27 wrote: »

IMO the desired progression/ladder for most young people nowadays seems to be:
1. Live with parents/friends in the 20's
2. Once significant other on the scene -> Move in with significant other in rented apartment
3. Once married and/or kids in the picture -> buy a 3 bed house if they can, or rent 3 bed house

I think you are right, and this is reflected in the prices of apartments. As someone who got burnt before, I note that 2 bed apartments aren't as hot property as they were last time around. It would appear that people have in fact learned and are being cautious.

zl1whqvjs75cdy

Agreed. We bought a 4 bed semi d despite kids being a ways off yet. I would like to "trade up" at some stage but if we can't it's not the end of the world. We won't run out of space in the current house.

tom1ie

donkeyoaty0099 wrote: »

Agreed. We bought a 4 bed semi d despite kids being a ways off yet. I would like to "trade up" at some stage but if we can't it's not the end of the world. We won't run out of space in the current house.

By trade up, do you mean move to a better area or something, as a 4 bed semi d is pretty much as “up” as it gets for most people.

Cyrus

tom1ie wrote: »

By trade up, do you mean move to a better area or something, as a 4 bed semi d is pretty much as “up” as it gets for most people.

well for me it would be a bigger detached house in the area i live in

zl1whqvjs75cdy

tom1ie wrote: »

By trade up, do you mean move to a better area or something, as a 4 bed semi d is pretty much as “up” as it gets for most people.

Nicer house in nicer area with bigger garden. Possible detached depending on the financials. Ideally I'd like to build but think that's a pipe dream anywhere near Dublin.

There should be a property ladder in a properly functioning market.
The attitude of buy for life is ridiculous & has led to 4 out of 5 of my friends, owning a 3 bed semi, on their own. Only one has since got married & had children.
I had one myself, till I sold last year.
Single women living in 3 bed houses on their own. That's what's wrong here.

Cyrus

bubblypop wrote: »

There should be a property ladder in a properly functioning market.
The attitude of buy for life is ridiculous & has led to 4 out of 5 of my friends, owning a 3 bed semi, on their own. Only one has since got married & had children.
I had one myself, till I sold last year.
Single women living in 3 bed houses on their own. That's what's wrong here.

its hardly mental, one room could be an office and another for guests.

Alkers

bubblypop wrote: »

There should be a property ladder in a properly functioning market.
The attitude of buy for life is ridiculous & has led to 4 out of 5 of my friends, owning a 3 bed semi, on their own. Only one has since got married & had children.
I had one myself, till I sold last year.
Single women living in 3 bed houses on their own. That's what's wrong here.

Not many people can afford to buy 3 bed houses on a single salary..

tom1ie

bubblypop wrote: »

There should be a property ladder in a properly functioning market.
The attitude of buy for life is ridiculous & has led to 4 out of 5 of my friends, owning a 3 bed semi, on their own. Only one has since got married & had children.
I had one myself, till I sold last year.
Single women living in 3 bed houses on their own. That's what's wrong here.

This is the thought process that has people stuck in apartments or small duplexes that they bought as a starter home before the bubble burst.
Buy a house you can live in for a long period of time. If there is only one or two of you, rent out spare rooms and use that rent plus any extra money you may have to pay off your mortgage early, to give yourself financial security earlier in life.
When kids come along your renters can go, you have a house big enough to bring kids up in, and it doesn’t matter to you wether the market has collapsed or value has gone sky high. It doesn’t matter cause your happy in your house that you bought so you don’t have to sell it. What’s more your 35 yr mortgage is reduced.

Carlos Orange

Cyrus wrote: »

its hardly mental, one room could be an office and another for guests.

Before I bought I was looking at both a 1 bedroom and a 2 bedroom in the same building. Bidding on the 2 bedroom apartment. Was wondering do I really need to spend 80k (afair) just to have a second bedroom for the odd visitor. The second room was kinda small as well.

Samuel T. Cogley

tom1ie wrote: »

This is the thought process that has people stuck in apartments or small duplexes that they bought as a starter home before the bubble burst.
Buy a house you can live in for a long period of time. If there is only one or two of you, rent out spare rooms and use that rent plus any extra money you may have to pay off your mortgage early, to give yourself financial security earlier in life.
When kids come along your renters can go, you have a house big enough to bring kids up in, and it doesn’t matter to you wether the market has collapsed or value has gone sky high. It doesn’t matter cause your happy in your house that you bought so you don’t have to sell it. What’s more your 35 yr mortgage is reduced.

The though process it partly to blame for the housing crisis though. Couples buying the limited amount of 'average' Semi-D's, contributing to shortgae of that part of the housing stock, the builiding of many more that's needed an continues urban sparwl. If there were nice, well priced central apartments and a properly functioning market then people should be encouraged to buy appropriate housing, not the non-existant 'fowever homes'.


People hark back to the 70s etc. but this is exactly what our parents did; buy a smaller place and then trade up, in the case of my inlaws three times. A semi-D in a semi-desirable area in a capital city probably should be out of the reach of a couple just starting out. One and two bedroom apartments should not.

Ronaldinho

Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »

The though process it partly to blame for the housing crisis though. Couples buying the limited amount of 'average' Semi-D's, contributing to shortgae of that part of the housing stock, the builiding of many more that's needed an continues urban sparwl. If there were nice, well priced central apartments and a properly functioning market then people should be encouraged to buy appropriate housing, not the non-existant 'fowever homes'.


People hark back to the 70s etc. but this is exactly what our parents did; buy a smaller place and then trade up, in the case of my inlaws three times. A semi-D in a semi-desirable area in a capital city probably should be out of the reach of a couple just starting out. One and two bedroom apartments should not.

People are entitled to buy whatever homes they see fit. That line about 'encouraging' people to buy 'appropriate housing' is ****ing outrageoous.

Would you propose to ban single people from owning anything other than a 1-bed apt?

quadrifoglio verde

Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »

The though process it partly to blame for the housing crisis though. Couples buying the limited amount of 'average' Semi-D's, contributing to shortgae of that part of the housing stock, the builiding of many more that's needed an continues urban sparwl. If there were nice, well priced central apartments and a properly functioning market then people should be encouraged to buy appropriate housing, not the non-existant 'fowever homes'.


People hark back to the 70s etc. but this is exactly what our parents did; buy a smaller place and then trade up, in the case of my inlaws three times. A semi-D in a semi-desirable area in a capital city probably should be out of the reach of a couple just starting out. One and two bedroom apartments should not.

Yes but what they bought was still suitable for raising a few kids. There was very few apartments, the smallest house would have been a two up two down, except for the council flats. But sure you wouldn't have been buying one of them either.
A one bedroom apartment isn't exactly suitable for a couple with a child. Neither is a two bed to be honest the way they're built in Ireland with no storage room whatsoever.

riclad

Maybe those people expected to get married , a 3 bed house in one area
is cheaper than a 2 bed apartment in another area .
At least they have the option of renting out one room if they choose to.Many single people buy a house maybe they might a partner in the future .

Graham

So to recap.

Step 1 - a 3 or 4 bed semi so you can rent spare rooms/have guests.
Step 2 - a 3 or 4 bed semi in case you and your significant other want to live together.
Step 3 - a 3 or 4 bed semi when/if children come along.
Step 4 - a 3 or 4 bed semi in case the children/grandchildren want to visit for Christmas.

Hmmmmmm, I do see a couple of potential issues with the master plan at least one of which relate to the property market.

Samuel T. Cogley

Ronaldinho wrote: »

People are entitled to buy whatever homes they see fit. That line about 'encouraging' people to buy 'appropriate housing' is ****ing outrageoous.

Would you propose to ban single people from owning anything other than a 1-bed apt?

LOL settle down - no one said anything about banning anything.

Samuel T. Cogley

quadrifoglio verde wrote: »

Yes but what they bought was still suitable for raising a few kids. There was very few apartments, the smallest house would have been a two up two down, except for the council flats. But sure you wouldn't have been buying one of them either.
A one bedroom apartment isn't exactly suitable for a couple with a child. Neither is a two bed to be honest the way they're built in Ireland with no storage room whatsoever.

That's not been my experience of people in the SE of the UK. Yes it was possible in Northern Market towns but London and surrounds you started off in an apartment.

Ronaldinho

Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »

LOL settle down - no one said anything about banning anything.

So what did you mean by 'encourage'?

Cina

quadrifoglio verde wrote: »

A one bedroom apartment isn't exactly suitable for a couple with a child. Neither is a two bed to be honest the way they're built in Ireland with no storage room whatsoever.

Our new two bed apartment is huge, plenty of room for a child if we ever want one. New build apartments tend to have plenty of space because of the regulations now. Plenty of couples in our block with 1 or 2 kids too.

This Irish obsession with houses is ridiculous really, there are plenty of apartments out there you can raise a small family in. People moan about the cost of houses yet then moan that what they can afford isn't big enough for them. Boo hoo, get what you can afford, deal with it, and stop complaining, I say.

M.Cribben

Cina wrote: »

Our new two bed apartment is huge, plenty of room for a child if we ever want one. New build apartments tend to have plenty of space because of the regulations now. Plenty of couples in our block with 1 or 2 kids too.

This Irish obsession with houses is ridiculous really, there are plenty of apartments out there you can raise a small family in. People moan about the cost of houses yet then moan that what they can afford isn't big enough for them. Boo hoo, get what you can afford, deal with it, and stop complaining, I say.

There's other reasons apart from space why apartments are less favorable for raising children.

1. No private back/front gardens to play in
2. Demographic of apartment living is usually single people or young couples without children - less other children for yours to play with
3. Usually no family pets allowed
4. Dangers of high balconies in upper floor apartments
5. Hauling shopping/children/bikes/prams/buggies into an elevator or up flights of stairs when the elevator is broke