Property Market 2018

LirW

M.Cribben wrote: »

There's other reasons apart from space why apartments are less favorable for raising children.

1. No private back/front gardens to play in
2. Demographic of apartment living is usually single people or young couples without children - less other children for yours to play with
3. Usually no family pets allowed
4. Dangers of high balconies in upper floor apartments
5. Hauling shopping/children/bikes/prams/buggies into an elevator or up flights of stairs when the elevator is broke

How did we ever manage on mainland Europe where apartment living is the norm :rolleyes:

M.Cribben

LirW wrote: »

How did we ever manage on mainland Europe where apartment living is the norm :rolleyes:

I just said it was less favorable, not impossible.

M.Cribben

More setbacks, although it's important that planning issues are given consideration so we don't repeat Celtic tiger era mistakes.

A much-hyped fast-track housing plan to deliver thousands of new homes for families will be gathering dust for at least three years before anything is done.

The city scheme was announced by Government more than two years ago, but its promise of a quick supply of new homes is in tatters.

Plans to develop 3,500 houses and apartments in the middle of Dublin city have been delayed as planners seek additional information in relation to major factors such as parking and community facilities. An Bord Pleanála has not yet approved the masterplan amid staffing shortages.

https://www.independent.ie/business/personal-finance/property-mortgages/revealed-fasttrack-plan-for-thousands-of-new-homes-in-tatters-37362725.html

Baby01032012

LOL I love the innocence of above response. Have a child and you will have a completely different response.
My 4 bed house is not big enough for 2 children. Small kids need pushchairs, prams, cots, playing pens, strollers, toys....we have a seperate playroom, sunroom, dinning room and sitting room...and there are toys in every room.

Cyrus

Baby01032012 wrote: »

LOL I love the innocence of above response. Have a child and you will have a completely different response.
My 4 bed house is not big enough for 2 children. Small kids need pushchairs, prams, cots, playing pens, strollers, toys....we have a seperate playroom, sunroom, dinning room and sitting room...and there are toys in every room.

one could equally argue that your place is more than big enough and you arent managing the space properly,

playroom is the biggest waste of time in the modern day, they become dumping grounds that kids go out of their way to ignore unless there is a tv in there, and then they have toys in every other room as well???

and yes i have kids.

Mickiemcfist

Baby01032012 wrote: »

LOL I love the innocence of above response. Have a child and you will have a completely different response.
My 4 bed house is not big enough for 2 children. Small kids need pushchairs, prams, cots, playing pens, strollers, toys....we have a seperate playroom, sunroom, dinning room and sitting room...and there are toys in every room.

Maybe your kids have too many toys? Did you have that many when you were growing up?

Baby01032012

They dont, we probably need to clear out and recycle more, they get toys at christmas and birthdays only...main driver of toys is their friends..have a birthday invite 12 friends get 12 presents....there was a lot i didnt have growing up...anyway this is completely off topic

draiochtanois

This post has been deleted.

Pussyhands

Should have bought a couple years ago. I don't know how "price acceleration slowing down" is seen as a great thing.

Prices need to come down and they need to come down about 20%.

Baby01032012

Invitation to visit and take some of the "stuff" sent by PM to the above posters

LirW

Irish people do have this perception that you need a house with bazillion bedrooms once you have children, also you need a big front and back garden for the trampoline and swing and don't forget the treehouse.
This view is a big reason why people don't see apartments fit for family living. Now I'm aware that many apartments are tiny and badly layouted but you can comfortably live on 90sqm with 3 bedrooms as a family of four.
The current way of building yet another estate of semi-Ds with stamp-sized garden is not sustainable and doesn't make any sense for the fact that Dublin has such an importance for the Irish workforce and economy.
It's not too late starting the building apartment developments that cater to families, young couples, elderly looking to downsize.

I just wonder if it sometimes is the mindset of buyers in the first place that they 'need' a house with garden to be happy and make their children happy that prevents a change and what's being built.

draiochtanois

This post has been deleted.

Baby01032012

Back on topic.......myhome report shows asking prices down 2.5% in Dublin, welcomed by Central Bank.
https://www.independent.ie/business/personal-finance/property-mortgages/irish-house-prices-flatlining-good-news-philip-lane-in-bloomberg-interview-37363471.html
https://www.myhome.ie/reports

Pussyhands

Baby01032012 wrote: »

Back on topic.......myhome report shows asking prices down 2.5% in Dublin, welcomed by Central Bank.
https://www.independent.ie/business/personal-finance/property-mortgages/irish-house-prices-flatlining-good-news-philip-lane-in-bloomberg-interview-37363471.html
https://www.myhome.ie/reports

That decimal point needs to move.

M.Cribben

Baby01032012 wrote: »

Back on topic.......myhome report shows asking prices down 2.5% in Dublin, welcomed by Central Bank.
https://www.independent.ie/business/personal-finance/property-mortgages/irish-house-prices-flatlining-good-news-philip-lane-in-bloomberg-interview-37363471.html
https://www.myhome.ie/reports

Asking prices are just that. Some EAs deliberately price low to generate interest and bidding wars. Say my house is worth 500k, I could set asking price at 100k or 1 million. It doesn't mean the house is worth either of those amounts. Sale prices are the only meaningful statistic which is why the CSO Residential Property Price Index and Daft quarterly Irish House Price Reports give a better indication of the market.

Midlife

Irish people are not used to being an urban people.

The majority of irish people looking to live in a city grew up with a front and back garden and so they naturally look to replicate that.

It's something that will develop but you have to give it time. Simply telling people to 'cop on' when they're just aspiring to their vision of a regular adult life isn't really fair.

Additionally, most of the apartments near the city are crap shoeboxes built for the lowest possible cost in the boom. As someone else mentioned also: no pets, crap services, no green spaces.

You can't be surprised that people overextend to get a house.

tom1ie

Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »

The though process it partly to blame for the housing crisis though. Couples buying the limited amount of 'average' Semi-D's, contributing to shortgae of that part of the housing stock, the builiding of many more that's needed an continues urban sparwl. If there were nice, well priced central apartments and a properly functioning market then people should be encouraged to buy appropriate housing, not the non-existant 'fowever homes'.


People hark back to the 70s etc. but this is exactly what our parents did; buy a smaller place and then trade up, in the case of my inlaws three times. A semi-D in a semi-desirable area in a capital city probably should be out of the reach of a couple just starting out. One and two bedroom apartments should not.

One and two bedroom apartments should, in the main, be for older people trading down or landlords who rent out to younger couples before they have kids.
Young people shouldn’t be looking to buy an apartment just so they can get their foot on the property ladder, that only works if you have an asset that keeps appreciating in value or at the very least stays above inflation. If the market tanks, your stuck. If the market tanks when your in your 3 bed semi, so what, you’ve enough room to bring up kids. It might not be that wonderful 4 bed detached you aspired to, but not everyone makes it to that level, that’s just life.

The problem at the moment is we have an undersupply of rentals for young working couples and hence the rent is outrageous. The reason for this being landlords have everything against them, wether that be the Rtb or high tax rates.
Protection for tenants is to be welcomed, but to have a tenant you need a landlord.

Sleepy

Midlife wrote: »

Irish people are not used to being an urban people.

The majority of irish people looking to live in a city grew up with a front and back garden and so they naturally look to replicate that.

It's something that will develop but you have to give it time. Simply telling people to 'cop on' when they're just aspiring to their vision of a regular adult life isn't really fair.

Additionally, most of the apartments near the city are crap shoeboxes built for the lowest possible cost in the boom. As someone else mentioned also: no pets, crap services, no green spaces.

You can't be surprised that people overextend to get a house.

I think the over concentration of social housing in the city centre would put a lot off living in the centre of Dublin too. Particularly if they're raising children.

phunkadelic

M.Cribben wrote: »

Asking prices are just that. Some EAs deliberately price low to generate interest and bidding wars. Say my house is worth 500k, I could set asking price at 100k or 1 million. It doesn't mean the house is worth either of those amounts. Sale prices are the only meaningful statistic which is why the CSO Residential Property Price Index and Daft quarterly Irish House Price Reports give a better indication of the market.

Yep, have a look at the drops for asking price here for the month of September. Way higher than increases.
The month of September 2018, saw 70 property increases, with an average price increase of €16,528, and 291 decreases with an average decrease of €38,234, bringing the national average/median price to €225,000.

http://www.daftdrop.com/reports

Baby01032012

I dont think we will see a 25% correction. 2.5% could be based on central bank exemption limits being reached...plus its very localised....average houses are not being impacted..the drop is at the upper end of the market which is impacting over all %.

Carlos Orange

tom1ie wrote: »

One and two bedroom apartments should, in the main, be for older people trading down or landlords who rent out to younger couples before they have kids.

Why shouldn't the 25% of adults who have no kids or just 1 kid buy a 2 bedroom apartment?

OwlsZat

We do totally waste our housing stock. Dundrum is a perfect example. Wall to wall empty nesters. Big 3/4 bed room houses all empty with the grey brethren, having to waste time and money in maintaining oversized properties versus their needs. The very same people live in apartment blocks in mainland Europe. Where they have their time freed up to enjoy their hobbies and be more social together.

Mickiemcfist

Sleepy wrote: »

I think the over concentration of social housing in the city centre would put a lot off living in the centre of Dublin too. Particularly if they're raising children.

Absolutely, two tracts of land really really irritate me as I pass them. From RCSI in Stephens green, back as far as Aungier st, up through the back of the O'Callaghan hotel, a couple of acres of absolute prime real estate - given to generations of people who'll never need or try to work. Additionally, Northwards from Ringsend road to the Liffey, probably 1000 houses which (current occupants excepted) would be worth a fortune to the state. I'm all for giving houses to those who can't afford them, but they should not be able to determine where those houses are.

The usual tripe about "breaking up communities" will be dragged up, but fundamentally, I scrimp & save to one day be able to have a deposit to enable me to pay for 30 more years to live in a community I want to, why should they just be gifted that?

Samuel T. Cogley

tom1ie wrote: »

One and two bedroom apartments should, in the main, be for older people trading down or landlords who rent out to younger couples before they have kids.
Young people shouldn’t be looking to buy an apartment just so they can get their foot on the property ladder, that only works if you have an asset that keeps appreciating in value or at the very least stays above inflation. If the market tanks, your stuck. If the market tanks when your in your 3 bed semi, so what, you’ve enough room to bring up kids. It might not be that wonderful 4 bed detached you aspired to, but not everyone makes it to that level, that’s just life.

The problem at the moment is we have an undersupply of rentals for young working couples and hence the rent is outrageous. The reason for this being landlords have everything against them, wether that be the Rtb or high tax rates.
Protection for tenants is to be welcomed, but to have a tenant you need a landlord.

The asset doesn't nered to do anything than retain it's relative value to the rest of the housing market. If a 150K 1 bed loses 50K so long as there is posative equity the 350K house the couple want to move into has lost a simialr if not greater amount. People should be looking to establish equity ASAP not paying off other people's mortgages if they plan to stay put in the medium term and I say this as a landlord myself.


Part of the problem in the rental sector is it's being used for classes of people it never should have. Long term renters should be an absolute rarity.

Samuel T. Cogley

Mickiemcfist wrote: »

Absolutely, two tracts of land really really irritate me as I pass them. From RCSI in Stephens green, back as far as Aungier st, up through the back of the O'Callaghan hotel, a couple of acres of absolute prime real estate - given to generations of people who'll never need or try to work. Additionally, Northwards from Ringsend road to the Liffey, probably 1000 houses which (current occupants excepted) would be worth a fortune to the state. I'm all for giving houses to those who can't afford them, but they should not be able to determine where those houses are.

The usual tripe about "breaking up communities" will be dragged up, but fundamentally, I scrimp & save to one day be able to have a deposit to enable me to pay for 30 more years to live in a community I want to, why should they just be gifted that?

Breaking up a few of these communities will benefit everyone, including the communities themselves. Now I'm all for mixed developments - little Patrick should grow up with a rnage of people with aspirations greater than proping up the local pub or Paddy Power. Similarily little Qunitin should grow up with people who don't refer to it as the 'Dort'.

Mickiemcfist

Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »

Breaking up a few of these communities will benefit everyone, including the communities themselves. Now I'm all for mixed developments - little Patrick should grow up with a rnage of people with aspirations greater than proping up the local pub or Paddy Power. Similarily little Qunitin should grow up with people who don't refer to it as the 'Dort'.

I agree. I read a book recently called the line, it's written by a psychologist who deals with some of Irelands worst young offenders. The premise is that "the line" between good and bad differs between people, influenced by a multitude of factors including parents, education, but one of the major influencers is social group, he makes the example that if you or I were to smash a bottle over someones head we'd risk losing all of our friends over it, whereas that just isn't an issue with certain social groups, if anything it's a funny story & heralded. Breaking that up is key to a functioning society.

chrismon

I've been in apartments in Central Europe, the difference is huge compared to what we have in Ireland.
Large ceilings, great light, good size rooms, a home.
Any apartments I've been to in Ireland remind me of dodgy student accommodation, not somewhere I could imagine raising a family.

Bob24

OwlsZat wrote: »

We do totally waste our housing stock. Dundrum is a perfect example. Wall to wall empty nesters. Big 3/4 bed room houses all empty with the grey brethren, having to waste time and money in maintaining oversized properties versus their needs. The very same people live in apartment blocks in mainland Europe. Where they have their time freed up to enjoy their hobbies and be more social together.

The solution to optimise ressource usage is higher LPT (and most continental European countries indeed have much higher rates than we do). If their is a high enough associated cost for holding onto a large property while not using it, people will tend to move to something more suitable with cheaper LPT.

I can already hear commentsss complaining about another tax. But if that tax optimises ressource usage and makes the market more fluid, it actually makes it significantly cheaper and easier to acquire the right property when you need it, so in the long term it’s not more expensive for households as what they pay in LPT they will have saving in property cost and mortgage interests (not to mention that I prefer the cost of property to go to the state as a tax compared to going towards a bank’s profits as interests).

Would be a political poison though so I’m not holding my breath.

aloooof

Bob24 wrote: »

The solution to optimise ressource usage is higher LPT (and most continental European countries indeed have much higher rates than we do). If their is a high enough associated cost for holding onto a large property while not using it, people will tend to move to something more suitable with cheaper LPT.

I can already hear commentsss complaining about another tax. But if that tax optimises ressource usage and makes the market more fluid, it actually makes it significantly cheaper and easier to acquire the right property when you need it, so in the long term it’s not more expensive for households as what they pay in LPT they will have saving in property cost and mortgage interests (not to mention that I prefer the cost of property to go to the state as a tax compared to going towards a bank’s profits as interests).

Would be a political poison though so I’m not holding my breath.

I think Stamp duty would have to come into this equation as well.

Increasing LPT effectively increases the cost of owning a property. If the goal is to make the market more fluid, the complement to this would be reducing Stamp Duty to reduce the cost of buying/selling a property.

zl1whqvjs75cdy

Bob24 wrote: »

The solution to optimise ressource usage is higher LPT (and most continental European countries indeed have much higher rates than we do). If their is a high enough associated cost for holding onto a large property while not using it, people will tend to move to something more suitable with cheaper LPT.

I can already hear commentsss complaining about another tax. But if that tax optimises ressource usage and makes the market more fluid, it actually makes it significantly cheaper and easier to acquire the right property when you need it, so in the long term it’s not more expensive for households as what they pay in LPT they will have saving in property cost and mortgage interests (not to mention that I prefer the cost of property to go to the state as a tax compared to going towards a bank’s profits as interests).

Would be a political poison though so I’m not holding my breath.

So on one hand we're being told to buy a house for life and don't get into a ladder situation and the other we get penalized for it? Seems fair.