Families may be declaring themselves "homeless" to game system

Kermit.de.frog

Families in emergency housing ‘may be gaming the system’

Families living in hotels and other emergency accommodation may be “gaming the system” by declaring themselves homeless to jump up the housing waiting list, according to the outgoing head of the Government’s Housing Agency, Conor Skehan.

In January 2015, following the death of Jonathan Corrie who had been sleeping rough near Leinster House, the then minister for housing, Alan Kelly, ordered that 50 per cent of all social housing available in Dublin city and county was to be allocated to homeless people.

Prior to this, 10 per cent of social housing was allocated to homeless individuals or families in Dublin city and 4-6 per cent in the rest of Dublin.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/families-in-emergency-housing-may-be-gaming-the-system-1.3342289

Politician makes rash decision and this has consequences shocker.

When you have a welfare system in which "gaming it" is the name of the game with talent in this respect built over several generations of dependency what do they honestly expect?

Surely the best way to fix this is to define homelessness as someone or a family sleeping rough on the street. The definition has been broadened to "you have a roof over your head but you are still 'homeless'...". This is a disservice to the people who are on the street with no where to go and are in the most desperate need and dangerous situations.

Snotty

And it's very simple to combat this if there was any backbone to the country at all. You refuse a house, you are not homeless, simple.

Doltanian

Don’t be so hobophobic

Gatling

First thing is the fact thousands living in hotels and other accommodation free from any rents or bills makes its a lot easier to do it ,
Hundreds still living in hotels turning down offers of accommodation too ,

Its a total sham.

Doltanian

Gatling wrote: »

First thing is the fact thousands living in hotels and other accommodation free from any rents or bills makes its a lot easier to do it ,
Hundreds still living in hotels turning down offers of accommodation too ,

Its a total sham.

Since these hotels are so expensive any chance we could get a cheaper hotel in somewhere like Romania or Thailand for example for €20/night instead of €100 or so a night being billed to the taxpayer.

Kermit.de.frog

Snotty wrote: »

And it's very simple to combat this if there was any backbone to the country at all. You refuse a house, you are not homeless, simple.

At the end of December 2014, 331 families were living in emergency accommodation, mostly in hotels and B&Bs. By the following December, there were 683 homeless families. That number has now reached 1,530.

It shoots up after the policy change.

So it's distorting the situation making it seem worse than it is. It makes "homelessness" seem worse than it is.

Not saying some of those families are not in a dire situation but it's fairly obvious abuse began after that lad died and the housing policy was changed.

Atlantic Dawn

The housing crisis has been the best thing for reducing teenage pregnancies...

THE NUMBER OF teenage pregnancies has fallen by 64% in 15 years.

http://www.thejournal.ie/teenage-pregnancy-ireland-3700903-Dec2017/

fritzelly

Homelessness (adj - Ireland):
Requiring (sic "demanding") an home in a location of your choosing, having at least 3 bedrooms and fully kitted out by the welfare officer and the rent to be paid for by everyone else's tax

Homelessness (rest of world):
https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=homeless

Biggest lickspittle on boardz

St. Erica Fleming has a lot to answer for.

whisky_galore

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

The housing crisis has been the best thing for reducing teenage pregnancies...



http://www.thejournal.ie/teenage-pregnancy-ireland-3700903-Dec2017/

Nothing to do with education so?

whisky_galore

On all levels of society, high up or low down, being economical with the truth to advance yourself is the way to go.

Stroke-pulling is in our culture after all.

suicide_circus

This "crisis" hasn't sat right with me for some time. Apollo House was shambles. Pisstakers like Erica Fleming. More people making a living from homelessness than people who are homeless. These self entitled dickheads playing the system to get homes subsidised by working folk is just more of it but it's hardly news, this phenomenon was obvious months into this "crisis" it's just that a guy working in the sector has had the balls to speak out. The actual crisis here is that there is a generation of young working people who cannot afford to buy their own homes with a private rental market that is not fit for purpose but I don't suppose glen hansard will be releasing a charity single about that any time soon.

TheAnalyst_

The state should be taking the kids off any family declaring homelessness. That would stop the grandstanding straight away.

Foxhound38

suicide_circus wrote: »

This "crisis" hasn't sat right with me for some time. Apollo House was shambles. Pisstakers like Erica Fleming. More people making a living from homelessness than people who are homeless. These self entitled dickheads playing the system to get homes subsidised by working folk is just more of it but it's hardly news, this phenomenon was obvious months into this "crisis" it's just that a guy working in the sector has had the balls to speak out. The actual crisis here is that there is a generation of young working people who cannot afford to buy their own homes with a private rental market that is not fit for purpose but I don't suppose glen hansard will be releasing a charity single about that any time soon.

Entirely correct.

And the fact that said young people need to now bid against the council for housing doesn't help.

Working young people under 35 have been screwed in a frankly unbelievable way from the recession to today. Might have something to do with the majority of us being too busy working our bollocks off to afford to rent and eek out a life to protest or go on the Ray Darcy show for a whinge.

Donald Trump

Doltanian wrote: »

Don’t be so hobophobic

Are you a hipster or a hobo?

(Or just playing the system to get a free house?)

Donald Trump

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

The housing crisis has been the best thing for reducing teenage pregnancies...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P_ZTrXAxZ-g

http://www.thejournal.ie/teenage-pregnancy-ireland-3700903-Dec2017/

Purely coincidental. Correlation does not mean causation

I've was just too busy running for president to ride around the young wans like I used to

whisky_galore

Foxhound38 wrote: »

Entirely correct.

And the fact that said young people need to now bid against the council for housing doesn't help.

Working young people under 35 have been screwed in a frankly unbelievable way from the recession to today. Might have something to do with the majority of us being too busy working our bollocks off to afford to rent and eek out a life to protest or go on the Ray Darcy show for a whinge.

Might be something in that. Students and the 'unwaged' have time to run up to protest in Dublin for a day out. The greys have to time protest and write letters and give their local TD a bollocking. There's a lot of pulling up of ladders on the younger working generation generally, in jobs and in housing.

Red_Wake

No surprise. I remember when it came out how dodgy the lads involved in Apollo House were, and knew the entire "crisis" was a scam.

If a homeless campaign couldn't find real homeless, something's up.

lmimmfn

And this is news to who?
This has been completely obvious for the past 2 years.

Wheeliebin30

Well duhhh!!

Ive been saying this here for years, but of course you get shot down by the usual left wing anti everything idiots.

About time people woke up to been screwed by people who couldn't be bothered working hard in school and life but want the same as people who do.

It's not sustainable.

MAJJ

Wheeliebin30 wrote: »

Well duhhh!!

Ive been saying this here for years, but of course you get shot down by the usual left wing anti everything idiots.

About time people woke up to been screwed by people who couldn't be bothered working hard in school and life but want the same as people who do.

It's not sustainable.

Parts may be right for some folks and I used to believe your view more before I saw first hand the impact of lack of opportunities and chances for education when families are poor or single parenting (may be better off) or have lousy role models who give little or no encouragement. Am not linking those points they are just examples that can make it tough and I commend all those that succeed despite not getting the best start and have additional barriers.

seamus

"Declaring" or "making" themselves homeless?

It's not entirely clear from the article, but I'm guessing that people are turning up at homeless services saying they have nowhere to go and being placed into B&Bs and hotels pending allocation of a house?

Ultimately you're not dealing with people here who have long-term housing available to them, but rather people already on the housing lists trying to find ways to jump up it.

So it may be "good" news in that it means the actual homelessness issue isn't quite as severe as it appears to have become.

But it doesn't change the fact that we still have a lot of people who require the state to provide housing. Has the actual housing waiting list been growing in the same period? That's the proper question.

Bear in mind that a small percentage of people on the waiting list will be generational welfare recipients, who assume the state will provide. The majority aren't. So just because people are gaming the system to jump the waiting list, doesn't mean they're pisstakers.

Imagine you had two kids and you were living in your in-laws 3-bed house with four other adults, and you were told the waiting list was 2/3 years long. Then you discover that if you rock up and present as homeless, you'll probably have a permanent home inside of 6 months. You'd strongly consider it. All notions of fairness and civic duty go out the window when it comes to providing for a family.

My main concern here is not that people are gaming the system; that's to be expected, it's what people do. My main concern is that it's been driving policy formation and politicians are making rash decision about how, when and where to build social housing to relieve a "homelessness crisis" which may not actually exist. We need to get a grip on the scale of this now and direct the city councils to tighten up on their allocation rules.

padd b1975

Well said Mr. Conor Skehan.

Hopefully the first of many honest reports from the business end of this racket.

Omackeral

suicide_circus wrote: »

The actual crisis here is that there is a generation of young working people who cannot afford to buy their own homes with a private rental market that is not fit for purpose but I don't suppose glen hansard will be releasing a charity single about that any time soon.

Ah don't mind them auld eejits! Seriously, sometimes you feel like a goon working away doing all the hours you can while others just coast. I don't think I could live with myself if I didn't make my own way. I'd have a serious lack of pride and self worth but plenty seem shameless.

Kermit.de.frog

I'm beinning to think a majority in the country liked Varadkar's welfare cheats campaign and is part of the reason he is so popular.

Initially I thought it harsh targeting of the vulnerable but some of these people don't seem so vulnerable. It's a kick in the teeth for those that just need help up.

Perhaps it was a noisy minority giving out?

Whether from the rich end or the poor end people are just fed up of being scammed and don't like the 'culture' of entitlement in the country.

suicide_circus

whisky_galore wrote: »

There's a lot of pulling up of ladders on the younger working generation generally, in jobs and in housing.

It's pretty well established now that those born between 1980-2000 will be significantly less wealthy in real terms than their parents

Fr_Dougal

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

I'm beinning to think a majority in the country liked Varadkar's welfare cheats campaign and is part of the reason he is so popular.

Initially I thought it harsh targeting of the vulnerable but some of these people don't seem so vulnerable. It's a kick in the teeth for those that just need help up.

Perhaps it was a noisy minority giving out?

Whether from the rich end or the poor end people are just fed up of being scammed and don't like the 'culture' of entitlement in the country.

That’s why he was so coy when asked if he could resolve the *housing crisis*, he said a number of factors were at play. Reading between the lines you get a sense that they know the current system is being abused by the Foreva Home ™️ scammers. Of course if you even hint at some of The homeless not being legitimate, you get jumped on by the media.

JimmyMcGill

Fr_Dougal wrote: »

That’s why he was so coy when asked if he could resolve the *housing crisis*, he said a number of factors were at play. Reading between the lines you get a sense that they know the current system is being abused by the Foreva Home ™️ scammers. Of course if you even hint at some of The homeless not being legitimate, you get jumped on by the media.

As well as the media knowing full well they're being played by these blaggers too. Will they confront it and refuse to print? Will they fluck.

For Forks Sake

padd b1975 wrote: »

Well said Mr. Conor Skehan.

Hopefully the first of many honest reports from the business end of this racket.

I'm sure the loonie lefties will be calling for him to resign for daring to speak the truth about their current hobbyhorse. :rolleyes:

edit.

right on cue: https://twitter.com/RuthCoppingerTD/status/948217924556386304

padd b1975

For Forks Sake wrote: »

I'm sure the loonie lefties will be calling for him to resign for daring to speak the truth about their current hobbyhorse. :rolleyes:

edit.

right on cue: https://twitter.com/RuthCoppingerTD/status/948217924556386304

That woman's attitude should disgust any decent taxpayer trying to improve their lot as best they can.

Facing housing problems......

What the fook does that even mean?

We're all faced with housing problems if we abandon personal responsibility!

Kristopherus

padd b1975 wrote: »

That woman's attitude should disgust any decent taxpayer trying to improve their lot as best they can.

Facing housing problems......

What the fook does that even mean?

We're all faced with housing problems if we abandon personal responsibility!

Ah, Ruthy, baby !¬!! The looniest of the lefties:D:D:D

suicide_circus

padd b1975 wrote: »

We're all faced with housing problems if we abandon personal responsibility!

Even when we dont

And then we have Independents threatening to force a General Election (In 12 months time) over the housing crisis. https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/election-looms-if-major-progress-is-not-made-on-housing-warns-mcgrath-36450795.html

Spanish Eyes

Councillor Jimmy Guerin was on Liveline before Christmas. He said exactly the same thing. But was cut off sharpish by Saint Joe before the statement could be debated or teased out. No one seems to want to say it out loud, and when they do...... Fair dues to Conor Skehan for having the cojones to say it in public media, and Cllr. Guerin also

Time for debate now whatever side you are on. Surely it is necessary now? The Simon Community appears to have many millions in "reserves" whatever that is, and numerous CEOs around the country. What are they and Focus and McVerry doing with all the charitable donations and Government grants? I suppose they are really trying to help but it just seems like a circular thing.

Anyway, if anyone knows of any study showing the actual REASONS people are in temporary accommodation (which I agree is not homeless like those on the streets), would they post a link.

I'm thinking

massive overcrowding
evictions where HAP is not working for the prospective tenant
Domestic violence where a family has to leave for their own safety

Anyway the days of a young one getting preggers and getting a house are gone. Whether we like it or not that MAY have something to do with the reduction in teenage pregnancies. Whatever the reason behind the reduction is, it's good.

TheAnalyst_

I believe that the government has offloaded their social housing into private rentals like HAP and other schemes. This worked up to a point a few years ago but now the demand from non social housed tenants is too high. No landlord wants to rent to social tenants because they will be far more likely to thrash the place and not pay a cent. They only have themselves to blame.

Kermit.de.frog

Shinners on Dublin City Council are not happy, they want Mr Skehan removed

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/minister-urged-to-remove-conor-skehan-from-housing-agency-role-1.3349004

Vizzy

I wonder would they be happy enough if he was suspended for 3 months on full pay ?

Red_Wake

DCC is a farce.